Chart Teaching

[opothai]

this is just a feeler to see how well this idea would be recieved.

if i were to charge £200.00 [13000bht per week]

to teach people how to make money by reading charts and going short or long on any particular market, showing real time trading and placing real trades, how many would be interested.

as an added bonus and an incentive, if in any particular week i did not make a 13000bht profit,

[ you can see this for your own eyes as you would be involved]

then you would recieve that weeks tuition free of charge.

the course would be three weeks duration, each lesson being 5 hrs with a break of 30 minutes,

the cost would be 14000bht per week, or free if i did not make the projected profit each week.

on the final week you will be given 5000bht back to place some trades of your choice but with my help if needed and any profits you made you could keep.

i would need a class of at least five each time.

any takers, if not why.

please be frank and open with your criticism.

[Thaible]

Sounds fishy. If your technical analysis really worked, you would never teach your secrets since you should be a multi-millionaire by now. I think the Thai SEC would be very wary of any farang trying to teach get-rich-quick classes. But on the other hand, I think there is actually demand out there for this kind of thing.

Edited April 4, 2006 by Thaible

[opothai]

Sounds fishy. If your technical analysis really worked, you would never teach your secrets since you should be a multi-millionaire by now. I think the Thai SEC would be very wary of any farang trying to teach get-rich-quick classes. But on the other hand, I think there is actually demand out there for this kind of thing.

quick reply thaible

definately not fishy, and definately not a get rich quick scheme, the buy points and sell points do not appear daily, [ only if you are willing to take big risks, and i do not ]

i'm trying to keep the figures realistic as your exposure to loss is very minimal.

as for my skills they are self tought from previos experts along with attending seminars and my own perception on what to do with the information i have gleaned.

my skills are ok but i have still things to learn my self. [ dicipline being number one ]

as of this moment in time i work and run a business, but have been looking into this as something to sustain my stay in thailand and keep me busy.

i now find it easy to make £200 per week on the side pocket money with ease.

given that if every thing went to plan then this is just an idea that is at least 1 year away, and by that time i would be a lot more proficient. to set this in motion would take 6 months or more.

[ internet, location, computers, possible visa, the market conditions etc ]

call this a bit of market research, and what better place to do it than thai visa, as i know if thier are flaws someone is DEFINATELY going to point them out

[BKK90210]

I know.....Technical analysis in Chart reading - definately not a get rich quick scheme

And I agree , the buy points and sell points do not appear daily, coz I broke the codes in chart reading just about 4 yrs ago! But I'm trading for medium term not short trading (too risky) and what I know I'm not willing to share...as yet. Let's just say I can sum the methods up in less than 10 sentences! AND they are good enough for me to be able to retired in 2 more yrs at the age of 44.

Edited April 4, 2006 by BKK90210

[~G~]

200 pounds per week? Trading what size of account? Without giving the % you make this figure is meaningless.

[opothai]

bkk

if you could sum up in ten sentences, the methods and the pitfalls, your stop loss, then my hat is off to you, i would agree the fundamentals are simplistic but the executions and profit taking are not.

as to yourself not willing to share your knowledge, nor am i.

i will pass on my knowledge for what i feel is a fair comensurate sum, as for other people profitting from the markets it is not going to effect what i do in the slightest.

the reason for this exercise is to find the negatives and to see if it is worthwhile.

as i see it there are a lot of people that want to live in thailand but can not sustain themselves, however with some direction this is something that can be mastered in a relatively short time and you can make money.

G

i do this part time at the moment, so i am not trading vast amounts.

to give you an idea, on a day trade i would use .5% of my fund and be exposed to a maximum loss of 5%.

on a week trade or longer i would use 20% of my fund and have a maximum exposure of again 5%

the average size of my trading fung is £2500

given that if and when i do this full time my fund would increase to 10x what i am doing at the moment, i think you can see the benifits yourself.

Edited April 4, 2006 by opothai

[matte]

Of course it sound interesting!

As you are planning a year ahead, i will put aside funds to participate, should you come to the point of take off. Count me in.

[opothai]

Of course it sound interesting!

As you are planning a year ahead, i will put aside funds to participate, should you come to the point of take off. Count me in.

yes it would be at least a year away,

and thanks, one positive already

[EVO]

Im in also, if for no other reason that to see what you have to say. Im allways open to alternate ways of thinking.

[opothai]

things are looking up a bit more interest thx.

as of today, with the footsie hitting 6060 i am looking to sell in a biiger way than normal,

the footsie has the capability to go to just under 6100, but looking deeper i see a retrenchment that if caught correctly can bring big dividends.

now i,ve put my neck out i could possibly get it chopped of.

[~G~]

things are looking up a bit more interest thx.

as of today, with the footsie hitting 6060 i am looking to sell in a biiger way than normal,

the footsie has the capability to go to just under 6100, but looking deeper i see a retrenchment that if caught correctly can bring big dividends.

now i,ve put my neck out i could possibly get it chopped of.

When you're in the predictions business, you better give plenty of them (some will turn out right..)

Regarding your idea - if you can show a track record of trading successfully during the last, say, 5 years, it will be very easy for you both to get students and to manage other people's money.

If you can't show such a track record, you'll be selling hope to the ignorant.

[opothai]

things are looking up a bit more interest thx.

as of today, with the footsie hitting 6060 i am looking to sell in a biiger way than normal,

the footsie has the capability to go to just under 6100, but looking deeper i see a retrenchment that if caught correctly can bring big dividends.

now i,ve put my neck out i could possibly get it chopped of.

When you're in the predictions business, you better give plenty of them (some will turn out right..)

Regarding your idea - if you can show a track record of trading successfully during the last, say, 5 years, it will be very easy for you both to get students and to manage other people's money.

If you can't show such a track record, you'll be selling hope to the ignorant.

i am not in the prediction business, just the possibilities of the market taking a downturn with the information, and formation of the chart to reach a conclusion and then to act upon said information.

in no way or form will i manage other peoples money,

i will show people what they can do themselves then they can manage thier own funds.

as for a track record, if you read my posts, you will see i do not do this as my main business as of yet.

as i have said the only way i get paid for doing this is if i show a profit while teaching real time, if you get an offer like that then to my mind you can not lose,

when i prove the system works then i get paid, thet's how confident i am in the methods i am using.

Edited April 7, 2006 by opothai

[Maigo6]

Yea I would be in too, only pay if you make that profit, can't lose really, but why would you want to share such a winning formula?

I'd keep it to myself and instead of making 200 pounds a week, I'd be making 2000 Pounds a week, when something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

[sting01]

Yea I would be in too, only pay if you make that profit, can't lose really, but why would you want to share such a winning formula?

I'd keep it to myself and instead of making 200 pounds a week, I'd be making 2000 Pounds a week, when something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

To really expect a good benefit (mean seveal thousand pounds, dollars or euros for exemple), the good thinking, the good formula is not enought , alas.

The right formula will let you win a percentage, I do suppose it's why only 200 pounds.

The interrest, the end interrest of his proposition could be 'in fine' to group the move of each and every, and get as side effect result to minimise the fees (there is always fees), and also improve the movement of the given quotation.

Anyway, the figure that are given make me think about something :

Let say I have 250 000 baht, that I invet in the Stock exchange, if I handle it part time, the benefits will be reinvested directly, so will be by result the next benefit. Did I got it right? So , we return to something that can be describe with 'how much in pound I earn', but in 12 month mycapital is going from xxx to yyy, with an inflation reported as zzz, and an average improvement of the salary of kkk.

Let say, if I follow you, and invest 2 500 pound to day, even if I get 200 pound of benefit after a week, if the price of the bread or oil, have going up of 15 %, then I will have lost money infact.

I am interresting, but I would love to hear things that are coherent with what I learned in univeristy for exemple ( you said things that are coherent with themself, but not eally with what I learned). I like the 'out of the box' thinking, just show me it's true on the long term.

[opothai]

Yea I would be in too, only pay if you make that profit, can't lose really, but why would you want to share such a winning formula?

I'd keep it to myself and instead of making 200 pounds a week, I'd be making 2000 Pounds a week, when something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

why did someone teach me,

for money, and it has cost me a whole lot more than i would be charging.

if it was a business that was competative then obviously i would keep things to myself. but the market is an open book and when you can read that book it does not matter how many people can read the book it will not effect myself personally.

this is something that i feel confident enough to do in thailand and it will keep me occupied, if carried out full time i have no doubt that there is potential to make 2000 per week.

but i am keeping things on a realistic level.

to make 200 per week and not be over exposed you need 2-3000 in your trading account, to make 2000 per week you would need 20-30000 in your trading account and then with that sort of money you can get a bit scared of your exposure and in turn that could effect your trading.

the market for this sort of activity is not neccassarily high end. it should appeal to every one, as my way of thinking is if you have a very large disposable amount of money to play with, you're more than likely to have enough to retire without having to work.

this should appeal to people that want to make enough to live a comfortable life in los and also for people with monaey to make a little bit more and keep them occupied at the same time.

Edited April 7, 2006 by opothai

[~G~]

the only way i get paid for doing this is if i show a profit while teaching real time, if you get an offer like that then to my mind you can not lose

I think this offer is quite exceptional. One of the things I know about trading is that you can't force a trade. You can't expect that the market will give you entry and exit points exactly when you want to demonstrate it, no matter how good trader you are.

It will create a pressure on you to enter trades when you shouldn't, and will inevitably reduce your performance. Frankly, I'd advise against it.

By the way, which markets are you trading? Located in Thailand means it's quite difficult to daytrade UK and US markets, for time zone reasons. Or are you doing Swings?

[opothai]

the only way i get paid for doing this is if i show a profit while teaching real time, if you get an offer like that then to my mind you can not lose

I think this offer is quite exceptional. One of the things I know about trading is that you can't force a trade. You can't expect that the market will give you entry and exit points exactly when you want to demonstrate it, no matter how good trader you are.

It will create a pressure on you to enter trades when you shouldn't, and will inevitably reduce your performance. Frankly, I'd advise against it.

By the way, which markets are you trading? Located in Thailand means it's quite difficult to daytrade UK and US markets, for time zone reasons. Or are you doing Swings?

trading the uk markets, 6-7 hours time delay so start work in thai time 2-3 oclock afternoon,

most of the trading is undertaken in the first 2 hours of the day,

there is no pressure to enter trades, in fact this is where dicipline is of paramount importance, be patient and wait for the correst signals and never hope for the market to change in your favour always be precise in your actions and accept a loss and get out then wait for the next movement.

when you familiarize yourself with a market over time you get a feel for the entry point and exit points and the strike rate is consistent.

do not missunderstand, when i started to trade i was losing as well as winning, but now i am in constant profit on the weeks.

i am not doing swing trading at this moment but i believe there is also money to be made from this.

[opothai]

things are looking up a bit more interest thx.

as of today, with the footsie hitting 6060 i am looking to sell in a biiger way than normal,

the footsie has the capability to go to just under 6100, but looking deeper i see a retrenchment that if caught correctly can bring big dividends.

now i,ve put my neck out i could possibly get it chopped of.

When you're in the predictions business, you better give plenty of them (some will turn out right..)

Regarding your idea - if you can show a track record of trading successfully during the last, say, 5 years, it will be very easy for you both to get students and to manage other people's money.

If you can't show such a track record, you'll be selling hope to the ignorant.

well G

since this post yesterday [ friday ] the footsie came down a tad then went back up to 6070, it hit 6070 twice then i placed my sell and took 26 points at £10 a point = profit £260 for the day.

the footsie dropped 57 points on friday but i did not want to take any chances, just in and out for a sure profit.

Edited April 8, 2006 by opothai

[matte]

things are looking up a bit more interest thx.

as of today, with the footsie hitting 6060 i am looking to sell in a biiger way than normal,

the footsie has the capability to go to just under 6100, but looking deeper i see a retrenchment that if caught correctly can bring big dividends.

now i,ve put my neck out i could possibly get it chopped of.

When you're in the predictions business, you better give plenty of them (some will turn out right..)

Regarding your idea - if you can show a track record of trading successfully during the last, say, 5 years, it will be very easy for you both to get students and to manage other people's money.

If you can't show such a track record, you'll be selling hope to the ignorant.

well G

since this post yesterday [ friday ] the footsie came down a tad then went back up to 6070, it hit 6070 twice then i placed my sell and took 26 points at £10 a point = profit £260 for the day.

the footsie dropped 57 points on friday but i did not want to take any chances, just in and out for a sure profit.

This is strange! I can tell by the sentences that you are actually writing in english, still i dont understand squat. Be prepared to put in some effort for your weekly 200. I'm still in, of course.

[opothai]

things are looking up a bit more interest thx.

as of today, with the footsie hitting 6060 i am looking to sell in a biiger way than normal,

the footsie has the capability to go to just under 6100, but looking deeper i see a retrenchment that if caught correctly can bring big dividends.

now i,ve put my neck out i could possibly get it chopped of.

When you're in the predictions business, you better give plenty of them (some will turn out right..)

Regarding your idea - if you can show a track record of trading successfully during the last, say, 5 years, it will be very easy for you both to get students and to manage other people's money.

If you can't show such a track record, you'll be selling hope to the ignorant.

well G

since this post yesterday [ friday ] the footsie came down a tad then went back up to 6070, it hit 6070 twice then i placed my sell and took 26 points at £10 a point = profit £260 for the day.

the footsie dropped 57 points on friday but i did not want to take any chances, just in and out for a sure profit.

This is strange! I can tell by the sentences that you are actually writing in english, still i dont understand squat. Be prepared to put in some effort for your weekly 200. I'm still in, of course.

i appologise upon reading it back yes i agree

what i was trying to explain

on the 06.04. i posted that the footsie was looking like it had a drop coming, but it could go up to just under 6100, well from the chart you can see it went up to 6070 and that was the sell point.

my point being it was not a prediction

a prediction would be the footsie will loose 80 points next week from a total movement of 300 points

but from the formation of the chart at this moment, it still has possibilities to go up so no prediction can be made, we will wait until monday morning for more information.

i hope this explanation has more clarity than the last.

[KhunPadThai]

Good to see that the snake oil business is alive and well.

[samran]

Good to see that the snake oil business is alive and well.

I must admit, one of my best mates must be kicking himself. He must be rueing the fact that he worked hard to get a First class economics degree from a top university, top class expereince in fund management firms, completing level 3 of the CFA programme, and travelling around the world to actually speak to the CFO's and the Chief Execs of the companies he invests in......HE COULD HAVE JUST LEARNT HOW TO CHART!!!

Sorry, i have to be a bit cynical on this too!

[opothai]

Good to see that the snake oil business is alive and well.

I must admit, one of my best mates must be kicking himself. He must be rueing the fact that he worked hard to get a First class economics degree from a top university, top class expereince in fund management firms, completing level 3 of the CFA programme, and travelling around the world to actually speak to the CFO's and the Chief Execs of the companies he invests in......HE COULD HAVE JUST LEARNT HOW TO CHART!!!

Sorry, i have to be a bit cynical on this too!

i want people to be cynical, then i will see the pitfalls and the problems.

one of mt cynicisms would be the validity and truthfullness of cfo's

remember enron and all the firms in the boom years of 2000-2002 giving out lies lies and lies about thier companies performances?? and just recently of all places the lies coming out of japan, in this day and age trust is a very rare commodoty.

as they say the charts naver lie.

and as for fund management especially pensions, ask the americans and the uk where and what have the proffesionals with all thier experience and superior knowledge done with our pensions and why do 7 in ten pension firms in the uk have major shortfalls.

this is something i firmly believe in as it works.

all major investment firms employ top chartists as wel as looking at the fundamentals of any company.

[Prakanong2005]

Good to see that the snake oil business is alive and well.

I must admit, one of my best mates must be kicking himself. He must be rueing the fact that he worked hard to get a First class economics degree from a top university, top class expereince in fund management firms, completing level 3 of the CFA programme, and travelling around the world to actually speak to the CFO's and the Chief Execs of the companies he invests in......HE COULD HAVE JUST LEARNT HOW TO CHART!!!

Sorry, i have to be a bit cynical on this too!

Very good points but then again with recent experience we have to be very cynical about the I-Bank Analysts and others given their recent behaviour during the period of "Irrational Exuberance"

As for the chase for "The Number" ie earning per share and the incentives that became totally out of synch due to executive pay it is not wonder we have had the cheating that went on at Enron, Ahold, Parmalat, Worldcom and others and it was these guys talking to the likes of your pal that helped fuel it.

I have to admit I have no clue about "Charting" or whatever its called but the Wall Street and City of London analysts have to be viewed with a very cynical eye too - they were busy advising people to buy while they were selling the worthless stocks - boiler room anyone?

[sleepyjohn]

this is just a feeler to see how well this idea would be recieved.

if i were to charge £200.00 [13000bht per week]

to teach people how to make money by reading charts and going short or long on any particular market, showing real time trading and placing real trades, how many would be interested.

OK....13,000baht/week

the course would be three weeks duration, each lesson being 5 hrs with a break of 30 minutes,

the cost would be 14000bht per week, or free if i did not make the projected profit each week.

on the final week you will be given 5000bht back to place some trades of your choice but with my help if needed and any profits you made you could keep.

Oh it's 14,000baht/week.

Or is it 14,000x3=(42,000-5,000)/3=12,333baht/week

Ah well let's forget about the detail. It's just that if there's one world where accuracy and subtlety are paramount to survival it's chart reading. But that's just pedantic old me.

please be frank and open with your criticism.

I shall try!

First let's see if i've got the idea.....

You want at least £1000 (5x14,000baht) per week for instruction. Well that seems pretty reasonable for a professional with long experience and a proven track record and an ability to communicate accurately.

We know you're not a professional, but let's check your track record.

Oh dear you haven't posted it. That would be a good idea.

I suggest you start with your:

Markets traded....oh I see maybe using Trade to Win. Is that a UK bookie?

Number of trades.

Hit Rate.

Average profit/loss ratio.

Maximum drawdown.

Average Trade Rate.

Period of trading.

Money management criteria including stop loss methodology.

Let's see...is there anything else?

Oh yes whilst we're talking money management you say you're making trades with a max individual loss of 5%.

Are you aware of the probability of losing your entire account at 5% max loss?

This will of course depend on your hit rate and P/L ratio which you haven't seen fit to share with us.

I do know however that conservative standards with typical good rates and ratios allow a maximum loss of ONE% of one's account on individual trades.

Need I be clearer?

Edited April 8, 2006 by sleepyjohn

[sleepyjohn]

then i placed my sell and took 26 points at £10 a point = profit £260 for the day.

Wouldn't a £260 profit on a typical trade imply a £260 typical potential loss? Or quite possibly more actually?

On your account of £2500 this would be over 10%.

But a few posts ago you told us you worked with 5% potential loss, which I thought was huge.

I really must stop being so pedantic.

[opothai]

then i placed my sell and took 26 points at £10 a point = profit £260 for the day.

Wouldn't a £260 profit on a typical trade imply a £260 typical potential loss? Or quite possibly more actually?

On your account of £2500 this would be over 10%.

But a few posts ago you told us you worked with 5% potential loss, which I thought was huge.

I really must stop being so pedantic.

my stop loss is 10 points which equates to 5% or less than my trading account, yes.

as i am trading real time the stop loss i rarely use , only on longer trades.

with this type of trading you are never open to more than what you personally want to risk, my risk limit is 5%.

as for your previous posts

13000 or 14000 per week as i said i am putting out feelers.

as for my track record i am not going to show you my accounts.

as for being a proffesional no i am not however i have invested a lot of time and money in my education of reading the charts and it works. as far as i am aware there is no qualification to prove being a proffesional, if thier is please advise me.

as you can see i am only going to charge on results and real time trading.

my hit rate is above 75% of which i can only prove that upon starting the classes

the markets traded and money management and methodology is what i am going to teach,

hope this explains a little

[Thaible]

all major investment firms employ top chartists as wel as looking at the fundamentals of any company.

actually they all fired them.

citibank got rid of its entire technical team recently, even though they've been ranked #1 for the last decade.

the thai government would definitely crack down on you, especially if 1 or 2 thais lost their money and complained. if your technique really worked, you would just start your own fund.

[BKK90210]

I'm a believer in the chart reading....but not willing to share the secret yet.

Those who've never experienced using chart reading will always skeptical of the method. I for one have been using chart for my technical analysis in my trading since couple yrs ago and can tell you it works. I have been making money since 4-5 yrs ago using this method while ignoring all of the "latest company news" put out by the market analysis out there. After you had mastered the skill then you can discard all the news comming from the companies because every movements of accumulation for buying or selling will show up on the chart - sometime you can see the accumulation pattern weeks ahead or even a few months ahead

The diff about me and OPOTHAI is that I'm not a day trader, I'm a diligent investor for medium to long term. I don't trade for monthly income but doing it as part of my investment portfolio.

Opothai:

Reading and interpreting the dead chart is as easy as cutting a cake for entry and exist point - but doing it with the live chart is another matter! In addition your method of reading and mine in chart reading is a bit diff. Seem like you look at the pattern of movement using line drawing to confirm the movements, but for me I'm using a technical formulas of various graphs in looking at the movement patterns - since I had taken many upper math courses in the graduate school, it helps me a great deal so far. But anyway best of luck to you. It's nice of you in willing to share the methods to everybody. Not all good chart readers are willing to do this.

[opothai]

all major investment firms employ top chartists as wel as looking at the fundamentals of any company.

actually they all fired them.

more fool them, i have a friend that is more proficient at chart reading, more so than the so than the so called proffesionals and his perception of the market forces is 10 times better yes 10 times better than the so called analyst

citibank got rid of its entire technical team recently, even though they've been ranked #1 for the last decade. if they have been number one for the past decade why fix any thing that is not broken

the thai government would definitely crack down on you, especially if 1 or 2 thais lost their money and complained. if your technique really worked, you would just start your own fund.

i would like to teach and pass on my knowledge not start another business

ok this is the what i've been asking for, to be shot down and to follow through with my answers.

city bank advised not three months ago to buy intel, [the chip makers ]

there were 7 recommendations and 7 sells with one neutral

where do you make your're mind up from people that are trained and neutured a lot more than myself and still they can not agree. if you had 14 buyers and 1 neutral the maybe you could be biased, pray tell me in the last year when you have the analysts agreeing on any particular stock and then would you personnally follow that stock.

now my friend look at the chart of intel trading, and i think you can deduce more from the chart than any so called expert.

yes or no.

why start my own fund, have confidence in what you know your self.

a down tred is a down trend, it is all well and good saying ' the fundamentals are good so buy the stock'

it is only a good stock or share when the price moves in you're favour, yes or no.

i have invested under direction in the past with isa's and pensions and i can catagorically tell you that over the last ten years i wish i had looked at the charts for direction.

please tell me one firm or company you would cere to mention [ please and i can tell you at a glance if they are in a bull market place or a bear market no doubt so can you],

times have changad and it is make or break now [ real time][ not invest for the long term. as we were told years before[.

as for the thai government i am sure they know best, just follow taxin's directions to the honey pot and every one would have prospered i my friend do not want to teach thais or any body that does not want to understand the implications of the risk rewad syndrome.

if and when you can prove me wrong then please , best foot forwad

one question for yor good self if i may ask

is the footsie or dow in a bull market or a bear market [ that means up or down ]

please answer and remember what you say for future reference.