understanding Toms

[epicstuff]

I've been In Thailand for many years and thought I understood it all.

Toms I kind of thought I understood but never realy gave it much thought.... lesbians OK; one might be feminine one masculine. would seem reasonable..

Well after I split from my wife who had an obvious lesbian side to her that she never admitted at the time and I didn't complain as she invited some right stunners into our bedroom when she got a bit drunk. She herself, by all accounts was one of those rare stunners that oozed sex appeal... anyway I have been loaning her some money lately as she has pleaded with me about not having enough cash to feed our kids, She earn more than me incidentally. but I am a bit soft when it come to a good sob story.

... I had a disturbing phone call from my step daughter saying don't give mum any money because, apart from many new shoes and handbags that she is addicted to she is spending it all on her Tom lover and going out all the time. Her daughter is being shunned .and not being taken care of at all, . i wont go in to some of the heart breaking things I was told...

But the point of this , (and I dying to here some of the condescending comments from some of you guy are bound to say )

This Tom, that is taking priority over her own family isn't a looker; not even got a boyish or manly anything . She/he is fat and pig ugly and just sits in the corner like a sack of spuds when ever I she her/him...

I just cant get me head around it ... when we 1st broke up she shacked up with a young Tom that could have been considered attractive, I certainly imagined her naked with a half smile, and thought that was understandable.. but she was soon dumped for this fat ugly cow , By the accounts of her daughter she /he has no charming side to her. and sucks all her money....

Someone please explain the psychology to this dynamic.

[Eesat]

Sounds like a pack of lies to me,aren't Toms supposed to pay for everything for their "Dee"?

[jvs]

Maybe you are a bit jealous and that is why you can not understand what is going on.Attraction is an itch you can not scratch ,maybe she is just looking for some body that fits.

She is probably trying to find herself in all this.

Accept it for what it is and be there for your kids.

[David48]

Which part of the 'psychology to this dynamic' would like us to comment on?

Your thinking?

Your ex-partners thinking?

Or your ex-partners new gf's thinking?

.

[epicstuff]

Sounds like a pack of lies to me,aren't Toms supposed to pay for everything for their "Dee"?

no idea , what the normal arrangement is its why I ask,, I just know what i see and what my step daughter tells me, she may be prone to exaggeration as a 16 year old, but she was was choking back tears when she told me....

, thats why it is so shocking and unbelievable..

[petermik]

maybe the "tom" ticks all the right boxes sexually?

[epicstuff]

Which part of the 'psychology to this dynamic' would like us to comment on?

Your thinking?

Your ex-partners thinking?

Or your ex-partners new gf's thinking?

.

quite simply............ the psychology of attraction... fit with obscene..

I have been apart long enough not to care about who she dates.. I have moved on myself and happy with my relationship .

status.

Why would I be asking about the psychology of the ex partners GF.? who give a ***t, its would be obvious . My ex was a good looking woman, intelligent and accomplished... I dont know how accomplished this other Tom is and she not rich ,or not contributing to the welfare of the kids anyway.

Sure I look at my ex sometimes and think what have I given up here I can remember a few good times sure. but I also remember well, the bad times and how much less stressed I am now...

I'm not looking to be psychoanalyzed by anyone here.. but if I could understand what is going on I might be better able to control the situation about how the kids are being treated.

[arthurwait]

I wonder if your daughter doesn't realise the Tom is spending even more on your ex. Has she ever been with a fat ugly person before for money ?

[epicstuff]

I wonder if your daughter doesn't realise the Tom is spending even more on your ex. Has she ever been with a fat ugly person before for money ?

not sure I understand the question? ,, was it supposed to infer I might be fat ugly and paid her?... it would be a very off target comment it it was...

[epicstuff]

I am guessing from the initial replies, this is a complete mystery to everyone.

So One theory from aurtherwait, might be that this Tom is actually chipping in financially somehow, but its just not filtering down to the kids rather just ends up in fashion boutiques and clubs instead.

or maybe she was just looking for the complete opposite of me !!!

If anyone has a serious intellectual knowledge on psychology, culture or any similar experiences.I would love to here it.
But if you just want to try and provoke a reaction don't wast your time...

[Banzai99]

She/he is fat and pig ugly and just sits in the corner like a sack of spuds when ever I she her/him...

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Makes a change though, that's normally the description of many Farangs.

[Banzai99]

or maybe she was just looking for the complete opposite of me !!!

Surely not, else the Tom would have been slim, sexy and beautiful, no mate, she sticking with what she's used to, fat and ugly.

[epicstuff]

or maybe she was just looking for the complete opposite of me !!!

Surely not, else the Tom would have been slim, sexy and beautiful, no mate, she sticking with what she's used to, fat and ugly.

good one,, not paranoid on that front try again

[JLCrab]

In my limited though first-hand experience and what I have subsequently been told, it would be very unusual for a hot Dee to be supporting any Tom of any description.

[lomatopo]

There have been many, many, many, many informative threads on the "Tom" and "Dee" phenomenon here on ThaiVisa over the years.

Your ex-Wife, and her beau, do not fit the normal model of a Tom/Dee, based on the information you've provided. Even when you were still married and she was into the hot ladies, she was neither a Tom nor a Dee, nor were her many hot paramours.

It sounds like your ex-Wife just hooked up with the wrong sort of lady?

Now is your ex spending all your money on her own handbags and shoes, or on her new friend, or both. Are you certain the step-daughter, how old is she?, doesn't have her own agenda?

You might consider cessation of payments to your ex, especially as her income is greater than yours, unless you have some legal or moral obligation?

[kyb789]

I've seen the same in my apartment complex. An absolute stunner has turned lesbian and now dates a dumpy, fat tom. It just boggles the mind.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Sounds like a pack of lies to me,aren't Toms supposed to pay for everything for their "Dee"?

Tom is a girl who dresses as a man and takes the male role.

Dee is a heterosexual girl whose current 'customer' just happens to be a girl pretending to be a man.

Ladyboy is a man who dresses as a girl and takes the female role.

Male, or person pretending to be male always provides.

Stop sending money, provide for step-daughter directly if you feel the need (not really your responsibility, is she?).

Edited July 4, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Jasun]

Why is is Toms in Thailand do their best to look like Western males in middle management? In my experience, they not only take on the appearance of guys, but have the capacity to take on some of our worse qualities - stubbornness, laziness, inflated ego etc. So, I don't find the situation described as unusual at all. Sorry for your wife and family.

[MrWorldwide]

Haven't run into a Tom in Thailand who is a patch on her sisters in Oz for sheer unattractiveness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=simatCov_SM

When Magda finally came out last year, I don't know that anyone was overly shocked. Tragically, that clip is one of the few examples of the Sharpie culture that dominated Sydney in my misspent youth, and the tight clothes actually looked good on some of their women - rose-colored glasses, perhaps

http://skinsnsharps.com/

[theblether]

Sounds like a pack of lies to me,aren't Toms supposed to pay for everything for their "Dee"?

Tom is a girl who dresses as a man and takes the male role.

Dee is a heterosexual girl whose current 'customer' just happens to be a girl pretending to be a man.

Ladyboy is a man who dresses as a girl and takes the female role.

Male, or person pretending to be male always provides.

Stop sending money, provide for step-daughter directly if you feel the need (not really your responsibility, is she?).

What about lesbians? you forgot about them.

[H1w4yR1da]

"she invited some right stunners into our bedroom when she got a bit drunk."

Yep! Don't stop there!

Photos or it didn't happen.

[epicstuff]

There have been many, many, many, many informative threads on the "Tom" and "Dee" phenomenon here on ThaiVisa over the years.

Your ex-Wife, and her beau, do not fit the normal model of a Tom/Dee, based on the information you've provided. Even when you were still married and she was into the hot ladies, she was neither a Tom nor a Dee, nor were her many hot paramours.

It sounds like your ex-Wife just hooked up with the wrong sort of lady?

Now is your ex spending all your money on her own handbags and shoes, or on her new friend, or both. Are you certain the step-daughter, how old is she?, doesn't have her own agenda?

You might consider cessation of payments to your ex, especially as her income is greater than yours, unless you have some legal or moral obligation?

sadly I brought this up because because i believe her or at least a good amount no smoke without fire, she was talking normally to me on the phone and the more we talked on the subject the more i could tell she was choking up with tears. my ex, as to be expected was as they say a High maintenance woman. and was capable of manipulation and lying to suite her own agenda.. The daughter has had a rebellious side to her but fully justified from what I saw of her earlier upbringing.. from the age of 3 she spent more time with a maid than mum. then I came along and her subsequent brother got all the love she didnt get as a baby.... The ex would not tell me the truth and is capable of hiding it from the daughter to, so this must run deeper than meets the eye. on a financial level...

I guess i was hoping I might discover angle to make her come to her senses and be a responsible mum. Instead of acting like a hiso playgirl. I have this dreaded felling she's heading out of control

Success went to her head part the reason why we split. temper, violence, the inability to listen to anyone else and compulsive lying were others. in all other respects she was an amazing woman and unique woman.

[Stradavarius37]

Get your kids back.

[epicstuff]

"she invited some right stunners into our bedroom when she got a bit drunk."

Yep! Don't stop there!

Photos or it didn't happen.

right!!!! as if ,, she's still the mother of my kids, go and download a porn movie... but if it makes you feel any better .. sometimes fantasy is better than reality .. but I guess you will never know... actually both pretty good!!!

[epicstuff]

"she invited some right stunners into our bedroom when she got a bit drunk."

Yep! Don't stop there!

Photos or it didn't happen.

right!!!! as if ,, she's still the mother of my kids, go and download a porn movie... but if it makes you feel any better .. sometimes fantasy is better than reality .. but I guess you will never know... actually both pretty good!!!

please dont dwell on that aspect, it was to put attraction into context. not to boast. I didn't say it happened every night just occasionally. A bit drunk might have been a euphemism also.

[theblether]

In brief OP.......

Welcome to the moveable feast.......

Dee - bi-sexual woman, how anyone can call them hetrosexual is beyond me. Dee's are quite aware they are sleeping with another woman and many do so for years upon years.

They will enter into a relationship with a man to provide a baby for their mother but it doesn't get away from the fact they are bi-sexual, and many continue relationships with their Tom's while married, or find new gik's.

Tom - avowedly butch lesbian. Supposed to be the provider ( in both senses ), but as pointed out a lot of them enjoy living the masculine lifestyle. The Tom / Dee relationship I know best ended because the Tom wouldn't get off Farmeville and buy a house for the Dee.

That Dee is now married to a Joe 90, there's so many beautiful Bridget Jones types in Thailand now it's a great time to be a Joe 90, as they are getting girls they would never have got before. Oh, Joe 90 bought her a house.

Lesbian - won't go with a man full stop, may be the best looking girl in Thailand, but she's not for reproducing or going with men. There is a rise in what we would call Lipstick Lesbian relationships as they are rebelling against the cultural pressure to reproduce.

Tom -Tom relationships, also on the rise, many Tom's felt the need to comply with the narrow window afforded to them in Thai culture of only going with Dee's, once again a changing society is seeing a rebellion against that expectation.

What you need to work out is, was your ex-wife a lesbian that complied with the cultural pressure to reproduce? By the looks of it that was the case as when drunk she would head straight for hot looking girls, which fits more into the lesbian pattern than Dee.

On the other hand she possibly deduced that you wouldn't let a Tom into the bedroom so she had to make do, but there's defo something in the female physiology that she likes and you don't have.

Urban myth - Dee's receive and do nothing in return. That's the equivalent of believing "you're the best / biggest I've ever had".

Why does your ex like this Tom? it's because she is at least bi-sexual and most likely lesbian. What she see's in the Tom looks wise is irrelevant, there's some type of connection there. As you pointed out why should you care who her new partner is?

Just get over your feeling of annoyance and see what you can do about channelling money direct to your daughter on the quiet.

[Berkshire]

Why does your ex like this Tom? it's because she is at least bi-sexual and most likely lesbian. What she see's in the Tom looks wise is irrelevant, there's some type of connection there.

True statement. I'm not sure why the OP would be surprised. Women care less about looks than men (or has the OP never noticed the kinds of farangs in Thailand these days). Tom's think more like men, so tend to have attractive Dees as GFs. Dees are in it for the emotional/companionship part of it.

[epicstuff]

In brief OP.......

Welcome to the moveable feast.......

Dee - bi-sexual woman, how anyone can call them hetrosexual is beyond me. Dee's are quite aware they are sleeping with another woman and many do so for years upon years.

They will enter into a relationship with a man to provide a baby for their mother but it doesn't get away from the fact they are bi-sexual, and many continue relationships with their Tom's while married, or find new gik's.

Tom - avowedly butch lesbian. Supposed to be the provider ( in both senses ), but as pointed out a lot of them enjoy living the masculine lifestyle. The Tom / Dee relationship I know best ended because the Tom wouldn't get off Farmeville and buy a house for the Dee.

That Dee is now married to a Joe 90, there's so many beautiful Bridget Jones types in Thailand now it's a great time to be a Joe 90, as they are getting girls they would never have got before. Oh, Joe 90 bought her a house.

Lesbian - won't go with a man full stop, may be the best looking girl in Thailand, but she's not for reproducing or going with men. There is a rise in what we would call Lipstick Lesbian relationships as they are rebelling against the cultural pressure to reproduce.

Tom -Tom relationships, also on the rise, many Tom's felt the need to comply with the narrow window afforded to them in Thai culture of only going with Dee's, once again a changing society is seeing a rebellion against that expectation.

What you need to work out is, was your ex-wife a lesbian that complied with the cultural pressure to reproduce? By the looks of it that was the case as when drunk she would head straight for hot looking girls, which fits more into the lesbian pattern than Dee.

On the other hand she possibly deduced that you wouldn't let a Tom into the bedroom so she had to make do, but there's defo something in the female physiology that she likes and you don't have.

Urban myth - Dee's receive and do nothing in return. That's the equivalent of believing "you're the best / biggest I've ever had".

Why does your ex like this Tom? it's because she is at least bi-sexual and most likely lesbian. What she see's in the Tom looks wise is irrelevant, there's some type of connection there. As you pointed out why should you care who her new partner is?

Just get over your feeling of annoyance and see what you can do about channelling money direct to your daughter on the quiet.

thanks Blether for once a response that was to the point...

[Rust Never Sleeps]

Who knows what goes on in anothers persons mind, let alone your own mind.

Take care of your step-daughter and move on.

Trying to rationalise the situation will do no-one any good.

[iancnx]

Sounds to me that you could perhaps get over the fat and ugly and analyse the relationship for what it is. Seems your ex has found what she is looking for in this other girl, not found in others. Personality? Domination? Great sex? Who knows.

I did have a bi Thai gf and whatever she was looking for...... it wasn't within me. She ended up marrying some guy for his money after a few more 'Toms'.

Agree with other posters above, get your daughter back with you if you can, or at least lay down the law!