Uk Visas Outsourcing Centre

[slimdog]

GU22

You may consider what I wrote in the two posts were unfair criticism, but there are people who will be applying for visa's either for themselves, family or loved ones in the near future and are interested if the new outsourcing centre has lived upto it's promise of providing a faster, friendlier service.

On the question of friendlier then I have to give the staff full marks, everyone from the security guards to the person directing everything are without doubt friendly and helpfull. Also as no decissions are made at the outsourcing centre, the paperwork is simply forwarded to the visa section of the embassy each day, then there is a definate lack of tension in the air compared with when visa applications were applied for at the embassy.

As for how many people are working at the counters proccessing the applications then the answer was 7 taking applications and a further member of staff writing out cashier cheques. Out of the 7, one seemed to be dedicated for multiple applications e.g tour companies etc.

I all honesty, I cannot say it has lived up to it's promise of being speedier, at least not yet.

One definate way of speeding things up would be to eliminate the need to go back to the counter after paying all the fee's in order to pick up a receipt. Simply issue the receipt there and then and get the cashier to stamp "Paid" on it.

It's early day still, so things may get better as members of staff become more accustomed to the process. Lets hope so..

[GU22]

GU22

You may consider what I wrote in the two posts were unfair criticism,

Not unfair, after all, you've been there and I haven't. Sorry if I gave the impression that I thought you comments were unfair.

there are people who will be applying for visa's either for themselves, family or loved ones in the near future and are interested if the new outsourcing centre has lived upto it's promise of providing a faster, friendlier service.

Yes, and I for one thank you for relating your experience.

Out of the 7, one seemed to be dedicated for multiple applications e.g tour companies etc.

So that's 6 dealing with 150 applicants? No wonder their is a queue.

One definate way of speeding things up would be to eliminate the need to go back to the counter after paying all the fee's in order to pick up a receipt. Simply issue the receipt there and then and get the cashier to stamp "Paid" on it.

This does seem to be rather time wasting. I agree, issuing the receipt when you hand over the dosh (as they used to do at the embassy) would be better and quicker.

I all honesty, I cannot say it has lived up to it's promise of being speedier, at least not yet.............It's early day still, so things may get better as members of staff become more accustomed to the process. Lets hope so..

Quite, let's give it a couple of weeks to settle in and then have another look, shall we?

[ChrisP]

MY EXPERIENCE.

Ok, I went with my Thai bf to the VAF Processing Center at Regent House yesterday (Thursday 27) morning.

Got there at 9.00am. Security Guards VERY strict.. wands, pat-down, must turn off Cell-Phone.!

Given ticket A080

Electronic Board was working.. They were on A015.

6 windows open.

In the First Hour they processed maybe 20 people...

THEN the (Thai) woman supervisor made an announcement (in Thai only) that "Sorry it is going so slowly, but you MUST have your Thai Passport xeroxed before you come to the window."

Then I watched about 30 people line-up for the Xerox Machine....

We already had done that, but funny they don't mention that on the web/check-list...

We left at 10.00am for some food - btw hard to find.. None in the building and little on the street. I suspect once Thai Food vendors realize 300+ people per day are now visiting Regent House for long periods.. there'll soon be LOTS of food stalls...

Came back at 10.30am.. NOW we're moving. on ticket A059!

We got processed at 11.00am.

1. The nicely dressed 2 men attendants floating around are VERY helpful and polite (English).

2. You can buy your Cashiers Check (payable to the British Enbassy) from the Cashier Counter there BEFORE you go to your appointment window. Cost us 3535Baht

3. Once the (very pleasant Thai girl) window-clerk went thru her checklist of items we had to have, THEN we paid her the the VAF Fee of 4-hundred something Baht. She also told my Thai that they are not doing personal interviews now for Visitor/Social/Tourist Visas. I also think we had too many things....

4. She gave us a printed ticket, Ref No, web-site and phone number to check in 3 days. She made sure my Thai understod.

I thought it was all pretty good, really. No aggression from anyone.

Btw, I watched some people arrive with ONLY the completed application form... Didn't seem to have anything else. Hmmm, I thought. Wonder how they will get on..??

Oh, my bf had an issue with the Thai Security Guard, who told him he could not wear his sun-glasses in the waiting room area. Didn't go down well, since he likes to wear them EVERYWHERE.. even at night.! I swear he's a Vampire.

ChrisP

[Phil_ne_uk]

Regarding GU22’s question,

So, what would you do? Employ more staff? This will put the costs up, and so the fee increases.

So, if you were in charge of this office, what would you do to cut waiting times?

I would say yes, employ MORE staff so people don’t have to wait so long for something as basic as wanting to visit the UK. It’s such a farce, you would think we wanted to visit the moon! Having said that you can even do that soon if you have enough cash! Oh sorry I forgot, Thai’s can go to the UK easy too if they’ve got enough cash! It’s only the poor/average people who have such a hassle trying to get there.

Why the H*ll should employing more staff put costs up? They now charge 425 Baht plus VAT as a fee for this service, they don’t do it for free! Let’s assume the staff were paid 700 Baht per hour, which is unlikely. Just suppose they spend 15 minutes with each applicant then they would see 4 per hour. So that’s 1700 Baht income per hour, less the 700 baht wages = a nice profit of 1000 Baht per hour for someone! So yes they should have sufficient staff so people don’t have to wait for hours. Just like when you visit your bank, you certainly wouldn’t expect to wait hours!

Regarding ChrisP’s post stating,,

4. She gave us a printed ticket, Ref No, web-site and phone number to check in 3 days. She made sure my Thai understod.

Does this mean that everyone has to wait 3 days to find out if they are granted a visa? Is this any type of visa or visitor’s visa or what?

If this is the case as standard, then so much for a quicker service! That’s 3 days slower now than before!!!!

Early last year my girlfriend applied for the second time for her VV. She went early in the morning and was told to come back in the afternoon for an interview. She went back about 3 hours later as requested, and was given her passport with her 6 months VV stamped inside.

Quicker service? What do you think???

[ChrisP]

^ Seems that yes, everyone has to wait 3 days regardless, now.

ChrisP

[GU22]

I would say yes, employ MORE staff so people don’t have to wait so long for something as basic as wanting to visit the UK. It’s such a farce

The last time I wanted to enter Thailand for longer than 30 days I had to apply in person at the RTE in Kensington. When I got there I had to take a number and then wait for it to be called before I could collect the application form. Having filled it in I had to take another number and then wait for that to be called before I could hand the form in to be checked. I then had to take another number and wait for it to be called in order to pay the fee.

The process took several hours.

Fortunately I arrived first thing in the morning. At 12 noon they said that after they had processed another x number (can't remember how many) they would be closing for lunch. Everyone else was told to go away and come back after 2pm.

They had one member of staff dealing with Thai nationals and one member of staff dealing with visas.

Once I had finally completed everything and paid the fee I then had to complete a registered post envelope, and pay the postage, so that they could send my passport back to me. I received it back 5 (not 3) days later.

Talking of farces, what about the farce of foreigners legitimately working in Thailand? Unless things have changed, these people have to leave Thailand (and I think, at least officially, return to their home country) once a year in order to renew their visa!

Why the H*ll should employing more staff put costs up?

Er, because the extra staff will want paying.

Let’s assume the staff were paid 700 Baht per hour, which is unlikely. Just suppose they spend 15 minutes with each applicant then they would see 4 per hour. So that’s 1700 Baht income per hour, less the 700 baht wages = a nice profit of 1000 Baht per hour for someone!

Hopefully someone who has been can say how long they actually spent talking with or being dealt with by a staff member. Some applicants may be dealt with quickly, others will take longer. I bet the average is longer than 15 minutes.

1000baht per hour would be a tidy profit, but you are forgetting that there are more staff members than those who deal directly with the public. Then there is the rent, electric and other overheads that all have to be paid. Anyone who is self employed, running any size of business or merely working in finance or accounts could tell you that.

Just like when you visit your bank, you certainly wouldn’t expect to wait hours!

Very few banks have in excess of 150 customers all turning up at about the same time! Although I was at a self service till in my local bank last Saturday morning and the queue to actually see a human cashier was out the door. Someone in the queue complained that they'd been there for nearly an hour and still hadn't seen anyone. Any public office is going to experience this type of problem when large numbers turn up within a short time.

From what I have heard, when the Australian embassy outsourced their visa service (to the same company, I believe) there were similar complaints. Maybe one of our Antipodean friends can confirm, but I have also heard that the general consensus now is that the service is quicker and easier than before.

So, would you be prepared to pay a higher charge in order to get a quicker service?

Edited May 5, 2006 by GU22

[bkk_mike]

The last time I wanted to enter Thailand for longer than 30 days I had to apply in person at the RTE in Kensington.

You can apply at several places in the UK - you don't have to go to the embassy in Kensington.

When I got there I had to take a number and then wait for it to be called before I could collect the application form.

Actually - you don't have to wait to get a form. They will happily give you a form without waiting for your number if you just go up to the counter - which you'll have seen people do. Alternatively, you can print it off from the internet. (After all = it's a single sheet of A4, not like the book you have to fill in to visit the UK).

Having filled it in I had to take another number and then wait for that to be called before I could hand the form in to be checked. I then had to take another number and wait for it to be called in order to pay the fee.

Maybe it's just me - but I've only ever queued once when applying - so long as I had the fee to hand over with the application. - and I'm currently on my 6th one-year multi-entry visa.

The process took several hours.

Queueing 3 times as much as necessary - I'm not surprised.

However, unlike the new Visa centre at Rajdamri, at least you're queueing was inside, in a room with chairs. Currently the new Visa centre has a queue of about an hour outside where they check everyone has the required paperwork simply to get a number to let you into the building and join the queue to actually submit the paperwork. (rather like the French embassy in London actually...)

This is Hot Season in Bangkok, with people forced to queue outside... its ridiculous.

Fortunately I arrived first thing in the morning. At 12 noon they said that after they had processed another x number (can't remember how many) they would be closing for lunch. Everyone else was told to go away and come back after 2pm.

They had one member of staff dealing with Thai nationals and one member of staff dealing with visas.

Yes - because they have consulates throughout the country, and Britons simply going for a 2-3 week holiday don't need to apply for a visa to come to Thailand. Personally, I think you must have been very unlucky with your timing for it to take so long. I've been in and out of the Thai embassy in London in 15 minutes before now, and never taken more than an hour...

Once I had finally completed everything and paid the fee I then had to complete a registered post envelope, and pay the postage, so that they could send my passport back to me. I received it back 5 (not 3) days later.

Visa from the embassy is always 2 days. (unless there's some sort of complication with your application obviously - more often with a non-immigrant visa than a tourist visa I'd expect.) - Now you're blaming the Thai embassy for the UK postal service?

Talking of farces, what about the farce of foreigners legitimately working in Thailand? Unless things have changed, these people have to leave Thailand (and I think, at least officially, return to their home country) once a year in order to renew their visa!

Simply not true - If you actually stay in Thailand 90 days taking you up to the date you extend your visa (I don't - work means I'm not here long enough), you never have to leave the country. You just have to get your work permit and immigration status renewed each year.

It is possibly less hassle to simply get another visa each year than to have to deal with the immigration process to extend your stay, but probably not if you're working here on a business visa with a work permit.

Why the H*ll should employing more staff put costs up?

Er, because the extra staff will want paying.

I think the point he's making here is that they charge per person. If each person behind the counter processes 40 people a day an increase in staff would increase the number of people they could process, and also increase the amount of income they can generate. Admittedly, that would probably be assuming that the people working there are getting paid overtime for carrying on working into the evening as there is a finite number of applicants, which is probably a bad assumption.

An old lady in the queue outside at the Visa centre today said she was feeling light-headed and couldn't stand any longer, and asked the couple in front of me to keep her place for her while she went and sat down in the shade. I know who I feel more sorry for. I'm getting back to the ridiculous situation where you're being forced to stand outside in Hot season in Bangkok - so much for the new visa centre being a better place to wait than the crowded embassy building...

So, would you be prepared to pay a higher charge in order to get a quicker service?

I'd like the choice - better option than paying a higher charge for a crapper service.

FYI - The minimum number of days at the Australian Visa service is still longer than it took back when the embassy did it. Ditto for the UK visa service.

If anything, they're hurting their tourist industries as people can't go for a last minute trip. (and yes - my wife and kids went to Queensland last year on a trip arranged on 10 days notice, including getting her Visa, but it was a close run thing...) The biggest issue with the UK and Australian isn't really that the process takes that long. It's that when you go through it once, they'll issue short visas, so you have to go through the same process all over again. At least the US issues a 10 year tourist visa in Bangkok once you've gone through all the hoops of applying.

The Aussie embassy is really taking the mickey when only ever issuing 3 month visas to Thais, when I got my ETA for 10 years by logging onto the internet with my passport number and my credit card. (and the 3 month visa costs more...)

Edited May 9, 2006 by bkk_mike

[GU22]

You can apply at several places in the UK - you don't have to go to the embassy in Kensington.

Yes, I know, in Hull, Birmingham, Liverpool, Cardiff and Glasgow. But as I live in Surrey, Kensington was closer.

Queueing 3 times as much as necessary - I'm not surprised.

You comments are noted. Maybe you were lucky, maybe I was unlucky. But I had no choice, it was what the staff member on duty told me I had to do. Maybe because it was very busy when I went.

However, unlike the new Visa centre at Rajdamri, at least you're queueing was inside, in a room with chairs.

When I went, which was 6 years ago, all the chairs were full and people were milling about outside the door and even up the very narrow windy staircase to street level. This was also true on the two occasions I've been in the last 12 months, once to renew my wife's passport and again to renew her daughters.

This is Hot Season in Bangkok, with people forced to queue outside... its ridiculous.

So, assuming that the office is full, what would you do? Turn them away?

Personally, I think you must have been very unlucky with your timing for it to take so long. I've been in and out of the Thai embassy in London in 15 minutes before now, and never taken more than an hour...

Like I said, maybe I was unlucky, maybe you were lucky.

Visa from the embassy is always 2 days. (unless there's some sort of complication with your application obviously - more often with a non-immigrant visa than a tourist visa I'd expect.) - Now you're blaming the Thai embassy for the UK postal service?

I wasn't blaming anyone, merely passing a comment. Having had the sense to apply in good time the fact that it took 5 days for my passport to come back was not a problem.

Your comments on working visas for the Kingdom are noted. I have never worked in Thailand, so do not now the rules for sure. My comment was based upon a conversation I had with an English lady who did work in Thailand and was told by the MFA that she had to return to the UK once a year to renew her visa. This was 6 years ago, and as I originally said "Unless things have changed........" So, have they?

You're further comments are noted, but any reply I may have to make has already been said earlier in the thread. No point in repeating them.

Except

It's that when you go through it once, they'll issue short visas, so you have to go through the same process all over again. At least the US issues a 10 year tourist visa in Bangkok once you've gone through all the hoops of applying.

Your avatar suggests that you are Australian, so you would know more about the Australian system than I. However, with the UK it is possible to get visit visas of up to 10 years duration. It is unlikely that a first, or even a second, would be that long, but someone who has a legitimate reason for visiting the UK frequently and has shown, to be blunt, that they are trustworthy will get a 10 year one if they want.

No system is perfect, especially one run by or on behalf of a government. I used my experiences at the RTE to show that it is not just the British embassy in Bangkok that has bureaucratic hoops for people to jump through, it's every government department in every country in the world.

Contrary to some peoples belief, the visa section at the British embassy in Bangkok is not staffed by xenophobic inadequates who take great delight in refusing as many applicants as they can. I have often quoted the figures, and can't be arsed to post the link to them again. Every year over 95% of applicants to the British embassy in Bangkok get their visa.

BTW, when did you go the the centre, and why? Were you successful? No need to answer, I'm just being curious.

Edited May 9, 2006 by GU22

[bkk_mike]

However, unlike the new Visa centre at Rajdamri, at least you're queueing was inside, in a room with chairs.

When I went, which was 6 years ago, all the chairs were full and people were milling about outside the door and even up the very narrow windy staircase to street level. This was also true on the two occasions I've been in the last 12 months, once to renew my wife's passport and again to renew her daughters.

No - I know you're unlucky as I've never seen queueing outside. Unless you're turning up before they open? I tend to get there around 10:30 or 11:00 (means I avoid the rush hour on the tube).

This is Hot Season in Bangkok, with people forced to queue outside... its ridiculous.

So, assuming that the office is full, what would you do? Turn them away?

No - but there's plenty of space inside the building... - admittedly, the Visa centre doesn't own it - but then I also don't think they own the area outside where people are currently queuing. I may have had a bad day - I went back on Wednesday, and the queue was a lot shorter (I was inside in 15 minutes), and my paperwork was submitted about 2½ hours later.

Your comments on working visas for the Kingdom are noted. I have never worked in Thailand, so do not now the rules for sure. My comment was based upon a conversation I had with an English lady who did work in Thailand and was told by the MFA that she had to return to the UK once a year to renew her visa. This was 6 years ago, and as I originally said "Unless things have changed........" So, have they?

They must have done - because you don't have to do that now - at least not on a 'B' visa with a work permit, where you continue to work for the same company.

Except

It's that when you go through it once, they'll issue short visas, so you have to go through the same process all over again. At least the US issues a 10 year tourist visa in Bangkok once you've gone through all the hoops of applying.

Your avatar suggests that you are Australian, so you would know more about the Australian system than I. However, with the UK it is possible to get visit visas of up to 10 years duration. It is unlikely that a first, or even a second, would be that long, but someone who has a legitimate reason for visiting the UK frequently and has shown, to be blunt, that they are trustworthy will get a 10 year one if they want.

Actually - despite my avatar (a picture taken by my daughter when she went to Oz last year), I'm British. And my mother-in-law was only issued with a two year visit visa last time she applied to visit the UK. She's 64, has never overstayed a visa and that was her 4th visa to visit the UK. I was at the Visa centre this week applying for the replacement 5th visa so she can travel with us this summer.

Note: In 2004 - the whole family went to to the US for two weeks - and the US embassy in Bangkok issued both my wife and mother-in-law with 10 year visas - the first US visas for either.

Although I think the UK is bad - it's still a LOT better than Australia - the 3 month visit visas are a pain in the neck. In 2005, the family went to the Gold Coast for a few days at Songkran (visiting Movieworld and Seaworld). After the hassle - it was my wife's second visa to Oz in 4 months - we're more likely to go to California next year (nobody needs a new visa to go the US - there are direct flights to LA, and I've never been to Disneyland...).

No system is perfect, especially one run by or on behalf of a government. I used my experiences at the RTE to show that it is not just the British embassy in Bangkok that has bureaucratic hoops for people to jump through, it's every government department in every country in the world.

Contrary to some peoples belief, the visa section at the British embassy in Bangkok is not staffed by xenophobic inadequates who take great delight in refusing as many applicants as they can. I have often quoted the figures, and can't be arsed to post the link to them again. Every year over 95% of applicants to the British embassy in Bangkok get their visa.

Yes - but how many of that 95% are repeat applications for people who've been before. Witness my mother-in-law - Her 5 visa applications (pretty sure the latest will be granted as there's no reason not to grant it) all counted seperately towards that 95% in each year they were granted.

Add in that the embassy used to tell people when submitting the paperwork if it was worthwhile bothering to pay the fee, and letting you withdraw the application without payment if they told you it was unlikely to be granted. (saves them the paperwork of having to give the written notification for why the visa was not granted - and keeps the official rejection figures artificially low).

BTW, when did you go the the centre, and why? Were you successful? No need to answer, I'm just being curious.

I went on Tuesday to apply for my mother-in-laws new visa - got there about 9:20am (after dropping the kids off at school) - but had stupidly left the photos at home, and only realised when they checked my paperwork outside at 10:40 (Dumb of me to have forgotten - I know)

I did manage to talk the person into giving me a number though - as I was hoping I'd only left them in the car... (but no such luck). - Note: that day was when I made the first post... (I really was unhappy that people were forced to queue outside that long, just to get a number to let them queue even more inside...)

I went back on Wednesday, getting there just before 9am (wife took the kids to school) - and the queue outside was only 15 minutes. The queue inside was a little over 2½ hours though - but at least that was sitting down, with air-con, and with a water-cooler in the room.

As you say - I have no issues with the staff there. They seem friendly enough (a little stressed maybe, but unsurprising in that job), and mostly seem to know what they're doing. There does seem to be a shortage of them though, and I'm a bit annoyed that there's a special fast lane for agents to use (they don't have to queue inside).

It seems a bit perverse that the only people being paid while they're queuing (as opposed to having to take time off work) - are the ones who get fast-tracked through the place.

One thing I am wondering is - does the drop box still exist for people to apply who've previously been issued a visa. - Effectively that's exactly what I was doing in handing in the paperwork at the visa centre - I just had to queue for almost 3 hours to do it...

(P.S. Wife has ILR - and she goes to the UK at least once a year - so it hasn't expired...)

[GU22]

No - I know you're unlucky as I've never seen queueing outside. Unless you're turning up before they open?

I could equally say that I know you are lucky, as each time I've been the waiting area has been full and people have had to wait outside, and even go outside to fill the forms in. And no, I don't arrive until after they have opened, but at least you accept that there may be a queue waiting for this to happen.

there's plenty of space inside the building... - admittedly, the Visa centre doesn't own it

I don't know whether the building's owners would allow people to wait in the lobby, corridors etc. or not; do you?

Yes - but how many of that 95% are repeat applications for people who've been before. Witness my mother-in-law - Her 5 visa applications (pretty sure the latest will be granted as there's no reason not to grant it) all counted seperately towards that 95% in each year they were granted.

No idea. I imagine that very few of the settlement applications are repeaters, though!

Add in that the embassy used to tell people when submitting the paperwork if it was worthwhile bothering to pay the fee, and letting you withdraw the application without payment if they told you it was unlikely to be granted. (saves them the paperwork of having to give the written notification for why the visa was not granted - and keeps the official rejection figures artificially low).

It also means that people with an inadequately prepared application don't lose the fee!

This argument has been used by others before, so I will ask you the same question I asked them "Would you prefer that people submitting a hopeless application were made to pay the fee and then be refused, or is it not better that they be told that their application is incomplete and bound to fail and then be given the chance to withdraw it and re-apply later?" The last time i asked this question no one replied. Will you?

BTW, the outsourcing centre will, I understand, continue to advise people to withdraw a poorly prepared application before the fee is paid. However, if the applicant insists then they have to accept it.

And my mother-in-law was only issued with a two year visit visa last time she applied to visit the UK.

How long did she ask for? If longer than 2 years, did they give a reason for limiting it?

One thing I am wondering is - does the drop box still exist for people to apply who've previously been issued a visa. - Effectively that's exactly what I was doing in handing in the paperwork at the visa centre - I just had to queue for almost 3 hours to do it...

Details of the drop box seem to have been taken off the embassy website. However, see Courier Acceptance service and Applications made through the postal service.

[bkk_mike]

there's plenty of space inside the building... - admittedly, the Visa centre doesn't own it

I don't know whether the building's owners would allow people to wait in the lobby, corridors etc. or not; do you?

Probably not - but are they happy with having people queueing in the parking area outside?

Basically - people screwed up in choosing too small an office. - And it's too small at the time of opening - just imagine how much of an issue it will be if, as the embassy said in their reasoning for opening the Visa centre, there are going to be lots more applicants for tourist / student visas as Thailand becomes wealthier.

Yes - but how many of that 95% are repeat applications for people who've been before. Witness my mother-in-law - Her 5 visa applications (pretty sure the latest will be granted as there's no reason not to grant it) all counted seperately towards that 95% in each year they were granted.

No idea. I imagine that very few of the settlement applications are repeaters, though!

Add in that the embassy used to tell people when submitting the paperwork if it was worthwhile bothering to pay the fee, and letting you withdraw the application without payment if they told you it was unlikely to be granted. (saves them the paperwork of having to give the written notification for why the visa was not granted - and keeps the official rejection figures artificially low).

It also means that people with an inadequately prepared application don't lose the fee!

This argument has been used by others before, so I will ask you the same question I asked them "Would you prefer that people submitting a hopeless application were made to pay the fee and then be refused, or is it not better that they be told that their application is incomplete and bound to fail and then be given the chance to withdraw it and re-apply later?" The last time i asked this question no one replied. Will you?

I have no issues with the embassy or the visa centre suggesting that people withdraw a poorly filled in application, or one without the required supporting documentation - and excluding those from the figures.

I do have an issue in cases where the application is correctly filled in, but they suggest it's likely to be refused and suggesting the application is withdrawn.

My issue is not that they are making the suggestion in this instance (after all - the fees for visas are ridiculous, and nobody wants to lose people money).

My issue is simply that those aren't counted, so the existing statistics are more flattering than they would be otherwise. (or are you saying that along with this artificial lowering of the % of visas that are refused, there is some artificial lowering of the % of visas that are granted?)

Admittedly, that category - of people who were told at the "mini-interview" on the date of application that they would be better off not submitting the application as it would likely be refused - will disappear now with the visa processing only checking that the paperwork is properly filled in. (Admittedly, it might help their case that the ECN hasn't seen them, or the people accompanying them... - how some people dressed to the embassy always surprised me a little.

BTW, the outsourcing centre will, I understand, continue to advise people to withdraw a poorly prepared application before the fee is paid. However, if the applicant insists then they have to accept it.

You can't get a number to queue if you haven't got the forms filled in and the minimum appropriate covering documentation (photocopies of bank statements, tabien baan, letter from sponsor, etc.)

In fact they're far more of a stickler for the paperwork than the embassy ever was. (my mother-in-law has always just written in her parent's names in Thai in the field for mother and father - she's 64 and her parent's are long dead - add in that they never had passports, so never had official Roman spellings of their names, and it seemed the safest thing to do - especially given the relevance of her parent's names in her application). I've never had an issue with that before, but this time I was asked to guess at the anglicisation of their names. and write it down when submitting the form.

And my mother-in-law was only issued with a two year visit visa last time she applied to visit the UK.

How long did she ask for? If longer than 2 years, did they give a reason for limiting it?

10 years was applied for (I know - I filled in the form), and 2 years was the result.

The reason given was that the Bangkok embassy didn't issue visit visas longer than 2 years.

I went to the embassy with her - and heard this, in person, from the English (maybe Welsh) person behind the counter when I queried that the application had been changed to a 2 year visa.

Personally - I thought it was simply a way of milking tourists for money. (Rip-off Britain living down to it's reputation). Given that the 2 year visa is the point at which the costs peak. (More than 2 years costs the same...).

Admittedly - that's still a lot better than Oz with their ridiculous 3 month things... (Note how it's always Australia that Britain compares itself to when it comes to the cost of visas - and always Sweden and Germany when it comes to saying the UK is a low-tax country).

Edited May 12, 2006 by bkk_mike

[bangkokblue]

I was going to post earlier but thought it best to wait in the queue.........

If of any interest, The 1988 unofficial success rate for 1st time uk visitor visa applications was Quote ' A little over that of America which was 60%' Unquote, said one ECO.

Has things changed, I don't know. But I'd like to be proven wrong in thinking it's 60-65% so when asked i can say it's less than a 40% chance of losing a few bob at the first attempt.

[Prakanong2005]

I find it a bit off that paid agents have their own line and do not have to queue while British citizens who pay for the service have to.

As for the 2 year visa over the 10 year I am convinced its a way of milking money.

My best pal is a pretty senior Diplomat who said as much with regard to getting married on VV over a Fiance Visa when you could marry on a VV - funnily enough he married his ex-wife on a VV when he was just starting at the FCO - the Home Office spit out their dummy ;-))

[GU22]

Bkk Mike, as you have been to the centre and I am relying on third party reports, I will accept your comments on the centre itself. Although I think we are actually basically agreeing on the facts and merely have a difference of opinion on the efficiency of the place.

I have no issues with the embassy or the visa centre suggesting that people withdraw a poorly filled in application, or one without the required supporting documentation - and excluding those from the figures.

I do have an issue in cases where the application is correctly filled in, but they suggest it's likely to be refused and suggesting the application is withdrawn.

My issue is not that they are making the suggestion in this instance (after all - the fees for visas are ridiculous, and nobody wants to lose people money).

My issue is simply that those aren't counted, so the existing statistics are more flattering than they would be otherwise. (or are you saying that along with this artificial lowering of the % of visas that are refused, there is some artificial lowering of the % of visas that are granted?)

I'm sorry, but I simply don't understand your point here.

Why should the embassy want to make the figures flattering? Is there some sort of competition among visa sections worldwide to see who can have the lowest refusal rate? (From what some say you'd think it was the opposite!)

Are you saying that people who present a poorly prepared application that is bound to fail should not be told so? Are you saying that they should be relieved of their money even though the application is bound to fail? Purely so the visa figures are more to your taste?

As to how the % is worked out, well let's have a look.

From the 2004/05 figures (page 15)

Received, 43511. Accepted, 39938. Refused, 2586. Refusal Percentage, 5.9%.

So, to check their %, simple maths, (2585 divided by 43511) x 100 = 5.9!

Who'd have thought it!

You will see that the actual figures don't add up. This is accounted for in the explanatory notes on page 1. Reading those notes you will see that applications withdrawn during processing are counted as an application received. So if they didn't count these the refusal percentage would be even lower!

10 years was applied for (I know - I filled in the form), and 2 years was the result.

The reason given was that the Bangkok embassy didn't issue visit visas longer than 2 years.

I find this incredible, and suggest a letter to UK Visas asking them why not!

bangkokblue posted:-

Has things changed, I don't know. But I'd like to be proven wrong in thinking it's 60-65% so when asked i can say it's less than a 40% chance of losing a few bob at the first attempt.

The figures for all posts can be accessed via Entry clearance - facts and figures

Prakanong2005 posted:-

I find it a bit off that paid agents have their own line and do not have to queue while British citizens who pay for the service have to.

British citizens do not pay any visa fee nor have to queue for a visa because British citizens do not need a visa to travel to the UK! (Pedantry moment over!)

To avoid confusion, the agents who hand in applications at their own counter are not so called visa agents. They are travel agents making bulk applications for package tours etc. They, or rather their clients, pay the same visa fee as everyone else.

Edited May 12, 2006 by GU22

[vinny]

10 years was applied for (I know - I filled in the form), and 2 years was the result.

The reason given was that the Bangkok embassy didn't issue visit visas longer than 2 years.

I went to the embassy with her - and heard this, in person, from the English (maybe Welsh) person behind the counter when I queried that the application had been changed to a 2 year visa.

The English (maybe Welsh) person behind the counter was mistaken. I know some people who were recently issued with 10-year UK visit visas by the British Embassy in Bangkok. However, they had visited the UK many times previously.

[Prakanong2005]

Even if they are just travel agents or whatever why do they not have to queue with everybody else?

Encourage tourism by all means but lets be equal about it.

I understand the pedantry moment as well but I will eat my hat if the visa service is paying for itself (now searching for sauce for hat just in case) ;-)

My pedantry moment over now as I have not paid UK taxes for quite a whiler now and its 99% certain I will not be paying them for the next few years either if the conditions of the job I am to be offered next week are acceptable ;-)

It will mean my wife applying for her VV in Singapore for a trip next year after we have lived together in Sing for a while - I have no knowledge of the Embassy there yet but i hope its a cinch - fingers crossed

[GU22]

Even if they are just travel agents or whatever why do they not have to queue with everybody else?

If you were in the queue to have you application checked, would you be happy waiting behind a travel agent handing over a couple of dozen?

[the scouser]

It will mean my wife applying for her VV in Singapore for a trip next year after we have lived together in Sing for a while - I have no knowledge of the Embassy there yet but i hope its a cinch - fingers crossed

If you 2 can have a pedantic moment, then so can I.

You won't find a British embassy in Singapore, which is a Commonwealth country, and therefore has a high commission.

Scouse.

[vinny]

Indeed, British High Commission.

[Prakanong2005]

It will mean my wife applying for her VV in Singapore for a trip next year after we have lived together in Sing for a while - I have no knowledge of the Embassy there yet but i hope its a cinch - fingers crossed

If you 2 can have a pedantic moment, then so can I.

You won't find a British embassy in Singapore, which is a Commonwealth country, and therefore has a high commission.

Scouse.

ROFL - good one

[Prakanong2005]

Even if they are just travel agents or whatever why do they not have to queue with everybody else?

If you were in the queue to have you application checked, would you be happy waiting behind a travel agent handing over a couple of dozen?

Are we certain its just TA's for Tour Groups - I would bet my hat again its not.

Just how many Thai tour groups are visiting the UK?

I have been behind the Trailfinders and other guys at the Thai Emb in Kensington and it did not take too long - bad comparison though.

[Phil_ne_uk]

Firstly, sorry for not replying before now regarding the discussion between GU22 & myself

I would say yes, employ MORE staff so people don’t have to wait so long for something as basic as wanting to visit the UK. It’s such a farce

The last time I wanted to enter Thailand for longer than 30 days I had to apply in person at the RTE in Kensington. When I got there I had to take a number and then wait for it to be called before I could collect the application form. Having filled it in I had to take another number and then wait for that to be called before I could hand the form in to be checked. I then had to take another number and wait for it to be called in order to pay the fee.

The process took several hours.

Fortunately I arrived first thing in the morning. At 12 noon they said that after they had processed another x number (can't remember how many) they would be closing for lunch. Everyone else was told to go away and come back after 2pm.

They had one member of staff dealing with Thai nationals and one member of staff dealing with visas.

Once I had finally completed everything and paid the fee I then had to complete a registered post envelope, and pay the postage, so that they could send my passport back to me. I received it back 5 (not 3) days later.

It seems that you should have been reading the forum more instead of posting! Why the h*ll did you go to the RTE in person when you could have just posted your application?

At the beginning of last year I sent my application form and passport etc to Hull registered post on the Monday, TWO days later, Wednesday, I received my passport back with my 12 month visa stamped inside! Easy, no fuss, no traveling, no extra expenses, no queuing, no interview so you can be spoken to like a dog! (different topic) Etc etc.

Talking of farces, what about the farce of foreigners legitimately working in Thailand? Unless things have changed, these people have to leave Thailand (and I think, at least officially, return to their home country) once a year in order to renew their visa!

Irrelevant! We’re discussing visas for the UK!

Why the H*ll should employing more staff put costs up?

Er, because the extra staff will want paying.

Er, I’ve already posted an explanation re: cost & profits above!!

Let’s assume the staff were paid 700 Baht per hour, which is unlikely. Just suppose they spend 15 minutes with each applicant then they would see 4 per hour. So that’s 1700 Baht income per hour, less the 700 baht wages = a nice profit of 1000 Baht per hour for someone!

Hopefully someone who has been can say how long they actually spent talking with or being dealt with by a staff member. Some applicants may be dealt with quickly, others will take longer. I bet the average is longer than 15 minutes.

1000baht per hour would be a tidy profit, but you are forgetting that there are more staff members than those who deal directly with the public. Then there is the rent, electric and other overheads that all have to be paid. Anyone who is self employed, running any size of business or merely working in finance or accounts could tell you that.

I’ve had my own businesses for over 28 years so don’t try to tell me about the basics!

I didn’t think it was necessary to go into more detail regarding their takings & expenses, however, what do you think they charge 3500 Baht for? Topping up their biscuit tin? That fee more than covers those expenses including what the British government has to pay the outsourcing centre! Not including higher fees for settlement visa’s etc etc. Incidentally, as the outsourcing centre charges 425 Baht service charge, then why does the embassy charge 3500 Baht?? As I don’t believe they do 8.23 times more work on each application!

Just like when you visit your bank, you certainly wouldn’t expect to wait hours!

Very few banks have in excess of 150 customers all turning up at about the same time! Although I was at a self service till in my local bank last Saturday morning and the queue to actually see a human cashier was out the door. Someone in the queue complained that they'd been there for nearly an hour and still hadn't seen anyone.

So who’s the mug then? I suggest they change their bank!!

Any public office is going to experience this type of problem when large numbers turn up within a short time.

Only if they are understaffed!!

From what I have heard, when the Australian embassy outsourced their visa service (to the same company, I believe) there were similar complaints. Maybe one of our Antipodean friends can confirm,

Irrelevant! I don’t give a toss about the Australian embassy! They are not the issue here!

but I have also heard that the general consensus now is that the service is quicker and easier than before.

Don’t talk cr@p! Where did you hear that fairy story? How the h*ll can you say that 2-3 days is quicker than the SAME day???

So, would you be prepared to pay a higher charge in order to get a quicker service?

Question already answered above!

[bangkokblue]

GU22. Your now twice refered link dos'nt give the infomation i seek i.e., Man meets girl/boy 'first' time visitor visa application, splitting hairs i know but of interest to some and a useful statistical tool.

[GU22]

It seems that you should have been reading the forum more instead of posting! Why the h*ll did you go to the RTE in person when you could have just posted your application?

I have already explained why I applied to the RTE for my visa and not to a consulate. I have also said that it was 6 years ago. Possibly before this forum existed, certainly before I joined it.

The two recent visits were for my wife's and daughters passport renewals, where attendance is required as they need to electronically take your photo and fingerprints.

I have also said this in earlier postings, so maybe you should take your own advice and read the forum, or at least all the posts in a thread you are participating in. If you had done so you would have seen the links I gave to details for applying by courier or by post. So I will ask you the same question. Why did you attend the centre in person when you could have applied by post?

Irrelevant! We’re discussing visas for the UK!

I thought we were discussing the service at the outsourcing centre. So the comparison with the procedure at the embassies of other countries is relevant.

Er, I’ve already posted an explanation re: cost & profits above!!...........

I’ve had my own businesses for over 28 years so don’t try to tell me about the basics!

When you have the time you must explain to us how you manage to get people to work for you for no wages.

what do you think they charge 3500 Baht for?........

as the outsourcing centre charges 425 Baht service charge, then why does the embassy charge 3500 Baht??

Entry clearance fees are set by the British government and are the same worldwide. Individual embassies cannot alter these fees, except when choosing the exchange rate they use. The Bangkok embassy are currently using 70baht to the pound, hence a charge of 3500baht for a standard visit visa. This money goes to the government/embassy, the outsourcing centre see nothing of it.

I do have an issue with the visa fees for settlement and then the extortionate fees set by the government for FLR, ILR etc. But that's a subject for a different thread.

So who’s the mug then? I suggest they change their bank!!

If you change your bank every time you find there's a queue then after 28 years of running your own business I'm surprised that you haven't run out of banks by now!

Only if they are understaffed!!

So you would be happy to see your taxes paying the wages of civil servants who do sit around doing nothing all day on the off chance that they might suddenly be busy? Oh, I forgot; you expect people to work for no wages.

Irrelevant! I don’t give a toss about the Australian embassy! They are not the issue here!

See my response re the RTE in Kensington.

Don’t talk cr@p! Where did you hear that fairy story? How the h*ll can you say that 2-3 days is quicker than the SAME day???

I was talking about the service at the outsourcing centre as opposed to the old visa section. That is for making the application. By most accounts, now that it has settled down applicants are in and out much quicker.

It is true that visit visas were sometimes issued on the afternoon of the application, and that will, presumably, no longer happen. But who needs to apply this morning and pick up the visa this afternoon? Most people manage to plan these things in advance. Don't say that having travelled all the way from the far north east you will then have to wait around in Bangkok for a few days to pick up the visa, because you can apply by post.

The situation and overcrowding at the old visa section was getting steadily worse. They have done something to improve this. But, of course, whatever they did there will always be those who will find something to complain about.

Edited May 13, 2006 by GU22

[GU22]

GU22. Your now twice refered link dos'nt give the infomation i seek i.e., Man meets girl/boy 'first' time visitor visa application, splitting hairs i know but of interest to some and a useful statistical tool.

No, the figures simply give the totals for each type of entry clearance for each post.

I'm not sure what purpose a more detailed breakdown would serve. Maybe you can enlighten me.

[Phil_ne_uk]

QUOTE(Phil_ne_uk @ 2006-05-13 17:41:31)

It seems that you should have been reading the forum more instead of posting! Why the h*ll did you go to the RTE in person when you could have just posted your application?

I have already explained why I applied to the RTE for my visa and not to a consulate. I have also said that it was 6 years ago. Possibly before this forum existed, certainly before I joined it.

The two recent visits were for my wife's and daughters passport renewals, where attendance is required as they need to electronically take your photo and fingerprints.

Perhaps you should have stated that initially. Also you weren’t applying for a basic holiday or non Imm O visa so I would assume that it would take longer!

I have also said this in earlier postings, so maybe you should take your own advice and read the forum, or at least all the posts in a thread you are participating in. If you had done so you would have seen the links I gave to details for applying by courier or by post.

Because my post was in direct reply to yours on 2006-05-06 02:25:13

So I will ask you the same question. Why did you attend the centre in person when you could have applied by post?

Who doesn’t read now? I wrote, quote At the beginning of last year I sent my application form and passport etc to Hull registered post on the Monday, TWO days later, Wednesday, I received my passport back with my 12 month visa stamped inside!

QUOTE

Irrelevant! We’re discussing visas for the UK!

I thought we were discussing the service at the outsourcing centre. So the comparison with the procedure at the embassies of other countries is relevant.

I actually said, “Irrelevant! We’re discussing visas for the UK!” In response to you saying, quote,

“Talking of farces, what about the farce of foreigners legitimately working in Thailand? Unless things have changed, these people have to leave Thailand (and I think, at least officially, return to their home country) once a year in order to renew their visa!”

So yes we were discussing the service at the outsourcing centre, but, relating to visas for the UK! Not about foreigners legitimately working in Thailand! Which you conveniently omitted from your quote in the post in an attempt to be a smart @rse. I get the impression other members here think you are that also, however, without the word SMART!

QUOTE

Er, I’ve already posted an explanation re: cost & profits above!!...........

I’ve had my own businesses for over 28 years so don’t try to tell me about the basics!

When you have the time you must explain to us how you manage to get people to work for you for no wages.

Your pathetic statement above doesn’t even deserve an answer!

QUOTE

what do you think they charge 3500 Baht for?........

as the outsourcing centre charges 425 Baht service charge, then why does the embassy charge 3500 Baht??

Entry clearance fees are set by the British government and are the same worldwide. Individual embassies cannot alter these fees, except when choosing the exchange rate they use. The Bangkok embassy are currently using 70baht to the pound, hence a charge of 3500baht for a standard visit visa. This money goes to the government/embassy, the outsourcing centre see nothing of it.

I do have an issue with the visa fees for settlement and then the extortionate fees set by the government for FLR, ILR etc. But that's a subject for a different thread.

GU22, you misunderstood my question. I don’t know the exact difference between the outsourcing centre & the British embassy’s jobs, but as I understand the centre checks the paperwork prior to submitting them to the embassy who then do the same thing, more or less, so why is there fee 8,23 times more for the same task?

Just over a year ago the total V V fee was 2880 Baht, now it’s 3500 and including this extortionate additional fee of 425 baht it’s now 3925 Baht. That’s over 36% increase in just over a year! A bit higher than the rate of inflation I would say!

QUOTE

So who’s the mug then? I suggest they change their bank!!

If you change your bank every time you find there's a queue then after 28 years of running your own business I'm surprised that you haven't run out of banks by now!

I was going to say don’t be pedantic but the word Pr**t seems more appropriate!

We’re not just talking about queues here, we’re talking about waiting for hours in high temperatures as Bkk Mike pointed out, not waiting 5-10 minutes in the bank!

QUOTE

Only if they are understaffed!!

So you would be happy to see your taxes paying the wages of civil servants who do sit around doing nothing all day on the off chance that they might suddenly be busy? Oh, I forgot; you expect people to work for no wages.

Who sits around doing nothing?? If you’re referring to the outsourcing centre, from what I’ve read the staff at the centre are extremely busy! Please explain?? Staffing the centre, embassy or any business would be done in relation to the quantity of customers and if operated practically would see staff increases gradually as the business grows so, proportionate increases in staff as the customers increase. Not after god knows how many years & years making the customer wait for days as is the case when applying for a simple holiday visa!!!

QUOTE

Irrelevant! I don’t give a toss about the Australian embassy! They are not the issue here!

See my response re the RTE in Kensington.

QUOTE

Don’t talk cr@p! Where did you hear that fairy story? How the h*ll can you say that 2-3 days is quicker than the SAME day???

I was talking about the service at the outsourcing centre as opposed to the old visa section. That is for making the application. By most accounts, now that it has settled down applicants are in and out much quicker.

It is true that visit visas were sometimes issued on the afternoon of the application, and that will, presumably, no longer happen. But who needs to apply this morning and pick up the visa this afternoon? Most people manage to plan these things in advance. Don't say that having travelled all the way from the far north east you will then have to wait around in Bangkok for a few days to pick up the visa, because you can apply by post.

The situation and overcrowding at the old visa section was getting steadily worse. They have done something to improve this. But, of course, whatever they did there will always be those who will find something to complain about.

My comment below saying, quote,

“Don’t talk cr@p! Where did you hear that fairy story? How the h*ll can you say that 2-3 days is quicker than the SAME day???”

That was posted in response to what you posted quote.

“but I have also heard that the general consensus now is that the service is quicker and easier than before.”

My statement was totally relevant to your quote. However your latest reply (above) extract below, is again, irrelevant to my statement.

“I was talking about the service at the outsourcing centre as opposed to the old visa section. That is for making the application. By most accounts, now that it has settled down applicants are in and out much quicker.”

GU22, It appears that you have a habit of quoting just sections of what I have posted instead of the FULL quote. I understand why, so hopefully other readers won’t look back at the original posting, so hopefully they will agree with you! Nice try but I doubt it.

I think when referring to anyone’s post with a quote that ALL of the quote should be included, not just an extract to suit yourself!

Incidentally, regarding your quote,

“but I have also heard that the general consensus now is that the service is quicker and easier than before.”

Where did you hear this misguided information? I have had no dealing with the new centre as yet, however those who have, without the need for in depth reasons, why not post a simple either BETTER or WORSE reply post in this thread so we can see the actual result as opposed to “what people hear”

Edited May 13, 2006 by Phil_ne_uk

[bangkokblue]

GU22. Your now twice refered link dos'nt give the infomation i seek i.e., Man meets girl/boy 'first' time visitor visa application, splitting hairs i know but of interest to some and a useful statistical tool.

No, the figures simply give the totals for each type of entry clearance for each post.

I'm not sure what purpose a more detailed breakdown would serve. Maybe you can enlighten me.

GU22. It served it's purpose when the question was asked and the ECO gave the answer. ' Enlighten you' I'll pass on that one if you don't mind.

Oh, and good luck to Woking tomorrow.

[GU22]

Phil_ne_uk, even though, IMO, it makes following a post/reply more difficult, to please you I shall follow your example in this reply, rather than my usual method of quoting the actual part of a post that I am responding to.

QUOTE(Phil_ne_uk @ 2006-05-13 17:41:31)

It seems that you should have been reading the forum more instead of posting! Why the h*ll did you go to the RTE in person when you could have just posted your application?

I have already explained why I applied to the RTE for my visa and not to a consulate. I have also said that it was 6 years ago. Possibly before this forum existed, certainly before I joined it.

The two recent visits were for my wife's and daughters passport renewals, where attendance is required as they need to electronically take your photo and fingerprints.

Perhaps you should have stated that initially. In the post where I first mentioned this I only talked about my visit to the RTE for my visa application. In subsequent posts conversing with Bkk Mike i also mentioned the two visits for passport renewals and the time scales. Try and read all the posts in a thread, then you will be able to keep up. Also you weren’t applying for a basic holiday or non Imm O visa so I would assume that it would take longer!90 day multi entry, to be exact.

I have also said this in earlier postings, so maybe you should take your own advice and read the forum, or at least all the posts in a thread you are participating in. If you had done so you would have seen the links I gave to details for applying by courier or by post.

Because my post was in direct reply to yours on 2006-05-06 02:25:13Try and read all the posts in a thread, then you will be able to keep up.

So I will ask you the same question. Why did you attend the centre in person when you could have applied by post?

Who doesn’t read now? I wrote, quote At the beginning of last year I sent my application form and passport etc to Hull registered post on the Monday, TWO days later, Wednesday, I received my passport back with my 12 month visa stamped inside!I asked you why did you attend the CENTRE in person. Not a Thai consulate in the UK. The centre, remember; the UK visa outsourcing centre that we are talking about. But you have now answered below that you actually haven't been at all.

QUOTE

Irrelevant! We’re discussing visas for the UK!

I thought we were discussing the service at the outsourcing centre. So the comparison with the procedure at the embassies of other countries is relevant.

I actually said, “Irrelevant! We’re discussing visas for the UK!” In response to you saying, quote,

“Talking of farces, what about the farce of foreigners legitimately working in Thailand? Unless things have changed, these people have to leave Thailand (and I think, at least officially, return to their home country) once a year in order to renew their visa!”I know, and the comment you have quoted is about the visa requirements of another country. Still relevant, IMO.

So yes we were discussing the service at the outsourcing centre, but, relating to visas for the UK! Not about foreigners legitimately working in Thailand! Which you conveniently omitted from your quote in the post in an attempt to be a smart @rse. I get the impression other members here think you are that also, however, without the word SMART!I am not engaging in some sort of popularity contest, and I am adult enough to accept that people will disagree with my views, and even not like me. Are you?

QUOTE

Er, I’ve already posted an explanation re: cost & profits above!!...........

I’ve had my own businesses for over 28 years so don’t try to tell me about the basics!

When you have the time you must explain to us how you manage to get people to work for you for no wages.

Your pathetic statement above doesn’t even deserve an answer!As you seem to think the centre can supply more staff without their costs going up, I would still like to have one, though. When, or rather if, you can think of one.

QUOTE

what do you think they charge 3500 Baht for?........

as the outsourcing centre charges 425 Baht service charge, then why does the embassy charge 3500 Baht??

Entry clearance fees are set by the British government and are the same worldwide. Individual embassies cannot alter these fees, except when choosing the exchange rate they use. The Bangkok embassy are currently using 70baht to the pound, hence a charge of 3500baht for a standard visit visa. This money goes to the government/embassy, the outsourcing centre see nothing of it.

I do have an issue with the visa fees for settlement and then the extortionate fees set by the government for FLR, ILR etc. But that's a subject for a different thread.

GU22, you misunderstood my question. I don’t know the exact difference between the outsourcing centre & the British embassy’s jobs, but as I understand the centre checks the paperwork prior to submitting them to the embassy who then do the same thing, more or less, so why is there fee 8,23 times more for the same task?

Just over a year ago the total V V fee was 2880 Baht, now it’s 3500 and including this extortionate additional fee of 425 baht it’s now 3925 Baht. That’s over 36% increase in just over a year! A bit higher than the rate of inflation I would say!Until recently the fee for a visit visa was £36. Then the government, not the embassy, put the cost up to £50. This fee is the same in all posts worldwide. If you want an explanation of how this is worked out and justified then I suggest that you contact the Prime Minister via your MP. Your point that the cost of running the centre should be met from the standard visa fee is valid, so maybe you could ask about that as well. However, when you consider the exorbitant fees charged by so-called visa agents, I think a charge of 425baht (plus 7% vat) to check an application is in order before submitting it and paying the visa fee is not unreasonable.

QUOTE

So who’s the mug then? I suggest they change their bank!!

If you change your bank every time you find there's a queue then after 28 years of running your own business I'm surprised that you haven't run out of banks by now!

I was going to say don’t be pedantic but the word Pr**t seems more appropriate!

We’re not just talking about queues here, we’re talking about waiting for hours in high temperatures as Bkk Mike pointed out, not waiting 5-10 minutes in the bank!In the example I gave, and to which you responded, the queue was a lot longer than 15 minutes.

QUOTE

Only if they are understaffed!!

So you would be happy to see your taxes paying the wages of civil servants who do sit around doing nothing all day on the off chance that they might suddenly be busy? Oh, I forgot; you expect people to work for no wages.

Who sits around doing nothing?? If you’re referring to the outsourcing centre, from what I’ve read the staff at the centre are extremely busy! Please explain?? Staffing the centre, embassy or any business would be done in relation to the quantity of customers and if operated practically would see staff increases gradually as the business grows so, proportionate increases in staff as the customers increase. Not after god knows how many years & years making the customer wait for days as is the case when applying for a simple holiday visa!!!Your reply Only if they are understaffed!! was in response to my remark "Any public office is going to experience this type of problem when large numbers turn up within a short time." The operative phrase being "large numbers turn up within a short time." I take it that you agree that employing a large number of staff just in case this happens is a waste of public money.

QUOTE

Irrelevant! I don’t give a toss about the Australian embassy! They are not the issue here!

See my response re the RTE in Kensington.

QUOTE

Don’t talk cr@p! Where did you hear that fairy story? How the h*ll can you say that 2-3 days is quicker than the SAME day???

I was talking about the service at the outsourcing centre as opposed to the old visa section. That is for making the application. By most accounts, now that it has settled down applicants are in and out much quicker.

It is true that visit visas were sometimes issued on the afternoon of the application, and that will, presumably, no longer happen. But who needs to apply this morning and pick up the visa this afternoon? Most people manage to plan these things in advance. Don't say that having travelled all the way from the far north east you will then have to wait around in Bangkok for a few days to pick up the visa, because you can apply by post.

The situation and overcrowding at the old visa section was getting steadily worse. They have done something to improve this. But, of course, whatever they did there will always be those who will find something to complain about.

My comment below saying, quote,

“Don’t talk cr@p! Where did you hear that fairy story? How the h*ll can you say that 2-3 days is quicker than the SAME day???”

That was posted in response to what you posted quote.

“but I have also heard that the general consensus now is that the service is quicker and easier than before.”

My statement was totally relevant to your quote. However your latest reply (above) extract below, is again, irrelevant to my statement.

“I was talking about the service at the outsourcing centre as opposed to the old visa section. That is for making the application. By most accounts, now that it has settled down applicants are in and out much quicker.”

GU22, It appears that you have a habit of quoting just sections of what I have posted instead of the FULL quote. I understand why, so hopefully other readers won’t look back at the original posting, so hopefully they will agree with you! Nice try but I doubt it.

I think when referring to anyone’s post with a quote that ALL of the quote should be included, not just an extract to suit yourself!I have explained why I prefer to do that at the beginning of this (lengthy) reply. A lot of a post (mine included) is irrelevant to a specific reply to some of the points in that post.

Incidentally, regarding your quote,

“but I have also heard that the general consensus now is that the service is quicker and easier than before.”

Where did you hear this misguided information? I have had no dealing with the new centre as yet, however those who have, without the need for in depth reasons, why not post a simple either BETTER or WORSE reply post in this thread so we can see the actual result as opposed to “what people hear”I see that, like me, you have no experience of the centre. Therefore your opinion of it and the service provided is, like mine, based only upon what you have read from others, coloured by your own prejudice. I could equally say that your information is "misguided" but if I were to do so we would both be wrong.

A member of Thailand-UK posted about his experience at the centre when he went there on May 12th. I have asked his permission to reproduce the post in full here, but have yet to hear back from him. I'm sure you understand my reluctance to reproduce the post without the author's permission. However, I will say that he says a staff member there said that initially things were very hectic; teething problems of a new office, coupled with the fallout of the Songkran holiday and changeover of offices backlog. Now things have apparently calmed down a lot and waiting times are down to around 20/30 mins. The poster says that he arrived at the office at 8am, the doors opened at 8:15, the counters opened at 8:30 and he had handed in his wife's application and left the office by 9am.

Up to you if you choose to believe this account or not.

[phusingpete]

Phil_ne_uk, even though, IMO, it makes following a post/reply more difficult, to please you I shall follow your example in this reply, rather than my usual method of quoting the actual part of a post that I am responding to.

QUOTE(Phil_ne_uk @ 2006-05-13 17:41:31)

It seems that you should have been reading the forum more instead of posting! Why the h*ll did you go to the RTE in person when you could have just posted your application?

I have already explained why I applied to the RTE for my visa and not to a consulate. I have also said that it was 6 years ago. Possibly before this forum existed, certainly before I joined it.

The two recent visits were for my wife's and daughters passport renewals, where attendance is required as they need to electronically take your photo and fingerprints.

Perhaps you should have stated that initially. In the post where I first mentioned this I only talked about my visit to the RTE for my visa application. In subsequent posts conversing with Bkk Mike i also mentioned the two visits for passport renewals and the time scales. Try and read all the posts in a thread, then you will be able to keep up. Also you weren’t applying for a basic holiday or non Imm O visa so I would assume that it would take longer!90 day multi entry, to be exact.

I have also said this in earlier postings, so maybe you should take your own advice and read the forum, or at least all the posts in a thread you are participating in. If you had done so you would have seen the links I gave to details for applying by courier or by post.

Because my post was in direct reply to yours on 2006-05-06 02:25:13Try and read all the posts in a thread, then you will be able to keep up.

So I will ask you the same question. Why did you attend the centre in person when you could have applied by post?

Who doesn’t read now? I wrote, quote At the beginning of last year I sent my application form and passport etc to Hull registered post on the Monday, TWO days later, Wednesday, I received my passport back with my 12 month visa stamped inside!I asked you why did you attend the CENTRE in person. Not a Thai consulate in the UK. The centre, remember; the UK visa outsourcing centre that we are talking about. But you have now answered below that you actually haven't been at all.

QUOTE

Irrelevant! We’re discussing visas for the UK!

I thought we were discussing the service at the outsourcing centre. So the comparison with the procedure at the embassies of other countries is relevant.

I actually said, “Irrelevant! We’re discussing visas for the UK!” In response to you saying, quote,

“Talking of farces, what about the farce of foreigners legitimately working in Thailand? Unless things have changed, these people have to leave Thailand (and I think, at least officially, return to their home country) once a year in order to renew their visa!”I know, and the comment you have quoted is about the visa requirements of another country. Still relevant, IMO.

So yes we were discussing the service at the outsourcing centre, but, relating to visas for the UK! Not about foreigners legitimately working in Thailand! Which you conveniently omitted from your quote in the post in an attempt to be a smart @rse. I get the impression other members here think you are that also, however, without the word SMART!I am not engaging in some sort of popularity contest, and I am adult enough to accept that people will disagree with my views, and even not like me. Are you?

QUOTE

Er, I’ve already posted an explanation re: cost & profits above!!...........

I’ve had my own businesses for over 28 years so don’t try to tell me about the basics!

When you have the time you must explain to us how you manage to get people to work for you for no wages.

Your pathetic statement above doesn’t even deserve an answer!As you seem to think the centre can supply more staff without their costs going up, I would still like to have one, though. When, or rather if, you can think of one.

QUOTE

what do you think they charge 3500 Baht for?........

as the outsourcing centre charges 425 Baht service charge, then why does the embassy charge 3500 Baht??

Entry clearance fees are set by the British government and are the same worldwide. Individual embassies cannot alter these fees, except when choosing the exchange rate they use. The Bangkok embassy are currently using 70baht to the pound, hence a charge of 3500baht for a standard visit visa. This money goes to the government/embassy, the outsourcing centre see nothing of it.

I do have an issue with the visa fees for settlement and then the extortionate fees set by the government for FLR, ILR etc. But that's a subject for a different thread.

GU22, you misunderstood my question. I don’t know the exact difference between the outsourcing centre & the British embassy’s jobs, but as I understand the centre checks the paperwork prior to submitting them to the embassy who then do the same thing, more or less, so why is there fee 8,23 times more for the same task?

Just over a year ago the total V V fee was 2880 Baht, now it’s 3500 and including this extortionate additional fee of 425 baht it’s now 3925 Baht. That’s over 36% increase in just over a year! A bit higher than the rate of inflation I would say!Until recently the fee for a visit visa was £36. Then the government, not the embassy, put the cost up to £50. This fee is the same in all posts worldwide. If you want an explanation of how this is worked out and justified then I suggest that you contact the Prime Minister via your MP. Your point that the cost of running the centre should be met from the standard visa fee is valid, so maybe you could ask about that as well. However, when you consider the exorbitant fees charged by so-called visa agents, I think a charge of 425baht (plus 7% vat) to check an application is in order before submitting it and paying the visa fee is not unreasonable.

QUOTE

So who’s the mug then? I suggest they change their bank!!

If you change your bank every time you find there's a queue then after 28 years of running your own business I'm surprised that you haven't run out of banks by now!

I was going to say don’t be pedantic but the word Pr**t seems more appropriate!

We’re not just talking about queues here, we’re talking about waiting for hours in high temperatures as Bkk Mike pointed out, not waiting 5-10 minutes in the bank!In the example I gave, and to which you responded, the queue was a lot longer than 15 minutes.

QUOTE

Only if they are understaffed!!

So you would be happy to see your taxes paying the wages of civil servants who do sit around doing nothing all day on the off chance that they might suddenly be busy? Oh, I forgot; you expect people to work for no wages.

Who sits around doing nothing?? If you’re referring to the outsourcing centre, from what I’ve read the staff at the centre are extremely busy! Please explain?? Staffing the centre, embassy or any business would be done in relation to the quantity of customers and if operated practically would see staff increases gradually as the business grows so, proportionate increases in staff as the customers increase. Not after god knows how many years & years making the customer wait for days as is the case when applying for a simple holiday visa!!!Your reply Only if they are understaffed!! was in response to my remark "Any public office is going to experience this type of problem when large numbers turn up within a short time." The operative phrase being "large numbers turn up within a short time." I take it that you agree that employing a large number of staff just in case this happens is a waste of public money.

QUOTE

Irrelevant! I don’t give a toss about the Australian embassy! They are not the issue here!

See my response re the RTE in Kensington.

QUOTE

Don’t talk cr@p! Where did you hear that fairy story? How the h*ll can you say that 2-3 days is quicker than the SAME day???

I was talking about the service at the outsourcing centre as opposed to the old visa section. That is for making the application. By most accounts, now that it has settled down applicants are in and out much quicker.

It is true that visit visas were sometimes issued on the afternoon of the application, and that will, presumably, no longer happen. But who needs to apply this morning and pick up the visa this afternoon? Most people manage to plan these things in advance. Don't say that having travelled all the way from the far north east you will then have to wait around in Bangkok for a few days to pick up the visa, because you can apply by post.

The situation and overcrowding at the old visa section was getting steadily worse. They have done something to improve this. But, of course, whatever they did there will always be those who will find something to complain about.

My comment below saying, quote,

“Don’t talk cr@p! Where did you hear that fairy story? How the h*ll can you say that 2-3 days is quicker than the SAME day???”

That was posted in response to what you posted quote.

“but I have also heard that the general consensus now is that the service is quicker and easier than before.”

My statement was totally relevant to your quote. However your latest reply (above) extract below, is again, irrelevant to my statement.

“I was talking about the service at the outsourcing centre as opposed to the old visa section. That is for making the application. By most accounts, now that it has settled down applicants are in and out much quicker.”

GU22, It appears that you have a habit of quoting just sections of what I have posted instead of the FULL quote. I understand why, so hopefully other readers won’t look back at the original posting, so hopefully they will agree with you! Nice try but I doubt it.

I think when referring to anyone’s post with a quote that ALL of the quote should be included, not just an extract to suit yourself!I have explained why I prefer to do that at the beginning of this (lengthy) reply. A lot of a post (mine included) is irrelevant to a specific reply to some of the points in that post.

Incidentally, regarding your quote,

“but I have also heard that the general consensus now is that the service is quicker and easier than before.”

Where did you hear this misguided information? I have had no dealing with the new centre as yet, however those who have, without the need for in depth reasons, why not post a simple either BETTER or WORSE reply post in this thread so we can see the actual result as opposed to “what people hear”I see that, like me, you have no experience of the centre. Therefore your opinion of it and the service provided is, like mine, based only upon what you have read from others, coloured by your own prejudice. I could equally say that your information is "misguided" but if I were to do so we would both be wrong.

A member of Thailand-UK posted about his experience at the centre when he went there on May 12th. I have asked his permission to reproduce the post in full here, but have yet to hear back from him. I'm sure you understand my reluctance to reproduce the post without the author's permission. However, I will say that he says a staff member there said that initially things were very hectic; teething problems of a new office, coupled with the fallout of the Songkran holiday and changeover of offices backlog. Now things have apparently calmed down a lot and waiting times are down to around 20/30 mins. The poster says that he arrived at the office at 8am, the doors opened at 8:15, the counters opened at 8:30 and he had handed in his wife's application and left the office by 9am.

Up to you if you choose to believe this account or not.

Hi guzz re "It is true that visit visas were sometimes issued on the afternoon of the application, and that will, presumably, no longer happen. But who needs to apply this morning and pick up the visa this afternoon? Most people manage to plan these things in advance. Don't say that having travelled all the way from the far north east you will then have to wait around in Bangkok for a few days to pick up the visa, because you can apply by post."

Looking at the info re postal applications,seems that they will not return your paperwork ect back by post,you have to use a courier service which serves only a few areas in Thailand.I assume that I could send application by post then go to Bangkok several days later to pick up the visa ect,is there a procedure for this .

[bkk_mike]

Bkk Mike, as you have been to the centre and I am relying on third party reports, I will accept your comments on the centre itself. Although I think we are actually basically agreeing on the facts and merely have a difference of opinion on the efficiency of the place.

Actually - the place just seems understaffed (long queues), and the building too small (queueing outside in Hot/Rainy season is not good).

They seem efficient enough, just unable to cope with the number of applications.

My issue is simply that those aren't counted, so the existing statistics are more flattering than they would be otherwise. (or are you saying that along with this artificial lowering of the % of visas that are refused, there is some artificial lowering of the % of visas that are granted?)

I'm sorry, but I simply don't understand your point here.

Why should the embassy want to make the figures flattering? Is there some sort of competition among visa sections worldwide to see who can have the lowest refusal rate? (From what some say you'd think it was the opposite!)

You're the one who started quoting their statistics... I'm just pointing out that what they're counting doesn't give a true picture...

Are you saying that people who present a poorly prepared application that is bound to fail should not be told so? Are you saying that they should be relieved of their money even though the application is bound to fail? Purely so the visa figures are more to your taste?

As to how the % is worked out, well let's have a look.

From the 2004/05 figures (page 15)

Received, 43511. Accepted, 39938. Refused, 2586. Refusal Percentage, 5.9%.

So, to check their %, simple maths, (2585 divided by 43511) x 100 = 5.9!

Who'd have thought it!

39938 Accepted...

(39938 / 43511) * 100 = 91.7%

91.7% + 5.9% != 100%

Government statistics are misleading. Especially UK government statistics where people are trying to hit a "target".

You will see that the actual figures don't add up. This is accounted for in the explanatory notes on page 1. Reading those notes you will see that applications withdrawn during processing are counted as an application received. So if they didn't count these the refusal percentage would be even lower!

10 years was applied for (I know - I filled in the form), and 2 years was the result.

The reason given was that the Bangkok embassy didn't issue visit visas longer than 2 years.

I find this incredible, and suggest a letter to UK Visas asking them why not!

I didn't believe it at the time - but what can you do? There's no appeal on Visit Visas (even Family Visit visas can no longer be appealed).

I find it a bit off that paid agents have their own line and do not have to queue while British citizens who pay for the service have to.

British citizens do not pay any visa fee nor have to queue for a visa because British citizens do not need a visa to travel to the UK! (Pedantry moment over!)

To avoid confusion, the agents who hand in applications at their own counter are not so called visa agents. They are travel agents making bulk applications for package tours etc. They, or rather their clients, pay the same visa fee as everyone else.

I just think that, since they're getting paid while waiting (presumably), and everyone else in the place isn't (having to take time off work) - they shouldn't be allowed to queue jump.

And British citizens don't need a visa, I was only queueing rather than have my mother-in-law queue.

Edited May 14, 2006 by bkk_mike