Thailand urged to tackle dark side of 'Land of Smiles'

[handSumMan]

It is simple. If you show me you want me for a tourist and treat me right I will come. When I was in Poo-ket I felt like a sheep in the den of hungry wolves. I never got robbed but the hairs on the back of my neck stood up at times when I was walking alone on busy streets. What is not mentioned is the danger of walking on the side walks. Unmarked holes in the walkway, motor bikes parked where people are suppose to walk, over-priced tuk-tuks, dirty hotel rooms without towels, trash by the tonne on the beaches are just a few of the many problems that must be solved. Thailand wants a "higher class" of tourist and wants to do away with the "back-packers" and to do that Thailand must become a place where that kind of tourist wants to come for a reasonable price. Not all of the tourists come here for the LBFMs. I've, in the distant past, have told women that Thailand is a place where she could walk safly at night. Maybe that is not true anymore.

Los Angeles aint safe either. Taco Naco. go to Puerta Villarta instead and see how that works out for ya!

[handSumMan]

I am from the south side of Chicago. I wish Thailand was even MORE dangerous and corrupt, ya'll scared then go home!

[epicstuff]

most of the negative stuff mentioned could be sorted quite easily if they had any real determination to tackle the problem , its lack of willingness. and probably down to the influence of the rich and greedy players in Thia society . if an example was shown from the elite, with the basic Buddhist principles still respected (just) the good Thai values would sink back in and everything could begging to normalize . But with an obvious increase in consumerism building up the need for unnecessary luxuries among common folk and the example shown by those who think they are to powerful and rich to need to follow any social responsibilities. these other minor crimes flourish.

Be be honest you will see most of these troubles or similar in any tourist hot spot anywhere in the world with few exceptions. rich people come to play and its going to create resentment if you have a bunch of poor being effected and having their noses rubbed in it..

but Thailand has come from a very different cultural heritage and learning to cope with the western bombardment of lifestyle advertizing. Now the big political players have all been educated in the west it must be like child's play for then to come in and rape their own country as they will be so far above the shit wont stink in their back yard.

Edited July 20, 2013 by epicstuff

[gamini]

I don't think Thailand will ever suffer a drop in tourists. It is one of the only countries where ugly fat and old men can always find atractive women when most women in thier own countries would not give them a second look.

[Johnnie99]

Worthy of sharing in the main forum I would say .

Worthy of sharing on international websites, I would say.

[Johnnie99]

Ok, I am prepared to be flamed, blamed etc, but Thailand is not so bad. So a hundred or so dead beat ozis die every year, out of a million or so. So what? A lot of those idiots would be dead anyway. A few scams? Man up. Stop whining, or stay at home in front of the home entertainment console and watch other people do things. You never had it so good here.

Rarely do I see a post so clearly missing the point.

It is not about residents and those who choose to live here, it is about those who visit.

Don't know (or care) how long you have been here but obviously not too long: even two or three years ago standards of living were higher for non-Thai residents. Therefore we have had it better.

[BlackJack]

politicians son guns down a policman in a pub

young guy rams his merc into a group of people

police man guns down young couple

hot head hits policemans bike

billions of baht in cash found in politicians home

monk launders drug money and processed 8 tons of gold

Ex PM charged and convicted

where's the dark side?

[elzach]

I don't know a single American other than me who has ever vacationed in Thailand. The discussions come down to danger and filth.

To be fair, it is a very long trip and there are other much closer places with great weather and even bar girls if that's of interest.

I realize that there are American expats in Thailand, but my unscientific observation is that they are far outnumbered by Europeans and Australians. I'm not sure that most European tourists are big spenders either, although they will certainly outspend the Chinese.

As for Thailand trying to attract the low spending Chinese, IMHO they are making a mistake. I spent all of April touring Isaan and I spent 30,000k on a car rental alone, not counting gas. I stayed in hotels and ate in restaurants and spent money like a real tourist.

I truly didn't add up the cost, but with airfare it was a major amount compared to a backpacker or a Chinese tour. Thailand is blowing it. They say they want higher end tourists, and then they offer filth, scams, corruption, danger, and all else that would drive them away.

Sorry, you couldn't be more wrong. The Chinese tourists are right now the biggest spenders, anywhere. Why do you think Europe and the US go head over heels happily issuing visas to them?

Do you know of any other ethnic group that travels to a foreign country with the main objective being SHOPPING?

Think about this, Thailand wouldn't care at all if 2-3 million westerners didn't come, as long as they can replace them with Chinese.

[ppmacready]

Those record numbers will drop sharply if they don't do something serious soon . . . the Thai's fail to understand the impact of social media and sharing of information outside of Thailand. The negative reviews, word of mouth etc etc will continue to have an effect and it's only going to get worse.

Lucky Tourism doesn't comprise a large part of the GDP, eg?

Been getting worse each year of the 18 I have lived here.

But more and more tourists still keep coming!

[elzach]

"There were 389 deaths of British nationals in Thailand in the year to March 2013 -- about one for every 2,400 British visitors or residents -- although that figure includes natural causes.

Deaths and cases of hospitalisation of British citizens rose by about 30 percent from the previous year.

Thailand had the highest number of deaths of Australians overseas in 2012, with 111 fatalities."

This thread is depressing. I spent a couple of years in China and one expat/tourist death there would make headline news for weeks.

[hawker9000]

Outside of Phuket, I don't think the problems mentioned are quite as rampant as the article might make them seem, particularly if you do your homework and make the effort to acquaint yourself with the scams and hazards (which undeniably do exist but exist to some degree most anywhere in the world) before your arrival (and know how to behave as a visitor in the 1st place!). For anyone who can't handle their liquor or is a drug user, or is otherwise inclined toward abusive or illegal behavior either toward the locals or their fellow foreigners, all bets are off... As for Phuket, well, I just don't lump the rest of Thailand in with it. It doesn't help that the diplomatic community soft peddles the situation there.

[nosatisfaction]

Reading that article, it makes you wonder why any tourists come at all.....

+ 1

Because taxis are affordable, most of the time 555555555555555

[Tomtomtom69]

Start with doing something about the 1,000,000+ yaba and heroin addicts. Jet ski scams are annoying, but secondary to that really.

Then you can tackle the abuse and exploitation of millions of migrant workers (and Thai workers as well).

Then you can start having a critical look at the corruption at every level of business and government that costs this country billions every year and stifles development.

I mean, sure, tourism is important to Thailand's economy but if you focus on that exclusively, it will be nothing but a patch to try and mask the bigger issues that affect Thailand.

I agree - yaba is a menace here and some sources estimate up to 3 million addicts in a country of 64-66 million. For some reason not a lot of people bring up the yaba problem, since not a whole lot is known about it outside of THailand. But I am pretty sure it is responsible for a substantial proportion of the crimes committed here.

[nosatisfaction]

lets hope ..... I stop to believe in santa a long time ago ..

me too, I prefer Santana & Carabao

[Cleveland]

At the end of it all, the scams have been running for years and years, and when the figures were 10mn or so, no one really gave a crap. But when you start attracting millions of Chinese, who live on your doorstep, they are not the most worldly travellers yet, and when they get ripped off, the Chinese embassy WILL say something. The media in China goes nuts if any of its tourists get caught up in problems and word spreads like wildfire over there if a place is safe or not.

Not just the media will go nuts, remember what the Hong Kong government did to the Philippines in 2010 after the bus hostage crisis. when a couple of their citizens were shot.

Total black alert on the country whch is still in force.

[Tomtomtom69]

I don't know a single American other than me who has ever vacationed in Thailand. The discussions come down to danger and filth.

To be fair, it is a very long trip and there are other much closer places with great weather and even bar girls if that's of interest.

I realize that there are American expats in Thailand, but my unscientific observation is that they are far outnumbered by Europeans and Australians. I'm not sure that most European tourists are big spenders either, although they will certainly outspend the Chinese.

As for Thailand trying to attract the low spending Chinese, IMHO they are making a mistake. I spent all of April touring Isaan and I spent 30,000k on a car rental alone, not counting gas. I stayed in hotels and ate in restaurants and spent money like a real tourist.

I truly didn't add up the cost, but with airfare it was a major amount compared to a backpacker or a Chinese tour. Thailand is blowing it. They say they want higher end tourists, and then they offer filth, scams, corruption, danger, and all else that would drive them away.

Sorry, you couldn't be more wrong. The Chinese tourists are right now the biggest spenders, anywhere. Why do you think Europe and the US go head over heels happily issuing visas to them?

Do you know of any other ethnic group that travels to a foreign country with the main objective being SHOPPING?

Think about this, Thailand wouldn't care at all if 2-3 million westerners didn't come, as long as they can replace them with Chinese.

Thailand doesn't care where foreigners come from as long as they spend. Chinese visitors are just starting to arrive in large numbers and their impact will be felt here in both positive and negative ways quite soon (many Thais in the tourism industry, particularly up in Chiang Mai are already experiencing these things). Chinese mostly go to places like Naraya, to buy nice but relatively cheap bags in a department store, where the chance of rip-offs are next to zero. They might also visit a local tourist market such as the night bazaar in Chiang Mai, but few of them would really go around independently off the beaten track and so therefore, their experiences are more limited than those of the Japanese, westerners and others who have been traveling to Thailand for eons.

I don't think that Europe or the USA would go "head over heels" to issue Chinese visitors with tourist visas. Generally speaking, each Chinese visitor is a potential immigrant and the only way most Chinese can visit these countries is by signing up for a tour, which means they are almost guaranteed to depart at the end of their stays. I have lived in China and know how hard it is for Chinese to visit most countries, particularly those in the west - don't make up some nonsense statement please.

[Globeman]

Those record numbers will drop sharply if they don't do something serious soon . . . the Thai's fail to understand the impact of social media and sharing of information outside of Thailand. The negative reviews, word of mouth etc etc will continue to have an effect and it's only going to get worse.

Lucky Tourism doesn't comprise a large part of the GDP, eg?

Yeah, you say that, and it is tempting to agree, but that fact is, the Internet and bad word of mouth has been in effect for years now, and the tourist numbers keep growing - so why would you imagine there would be a reversal in this trend? And no matter how rude the Thais get, the Russians and Chinese will never even notice, because they will still be far more polite than the folks back home. Scams and corruption? That won't scare the Russians off either... And come to that, Europeans seem to keep coming as well, though their growth is stagnating.

People just don't listen to warnings...

[penwithcris]

My wife is Thai and she has little inclination to return to Thailand except out of necessity and she is not alone in feeling that way

UK has it's problems but generally speaking it is a very SAFE country in which to live and work. Thailand has become like the Philippines where one is always looking over one's shoulder in case there is someone wishing to do one harm

It is not only physical hurt to be wary of. Business dealings from the smallest to the largest are fraught with danger and Thais will take any opportunity to 'rip off' the naive or unsuspecting.

Like the Phil what could have been a nation paradise has degenrated beyond all recognition over the past thirty years. The sickness is terminal

[aTomsLife]

In addition to tourists I was also referencing how the U.S. Navy is treated during port calls here. The ambassador had a lot of nerve thanking the police force with all that goes on

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[simple1]

I don't know a single American other than me who has ever vacationed in Thailand. The discussions come down to danger and filth.

To be fair, it is a very long trip and there are other much closer places with great weather and even bar girls if that's of interest.

I realize that there are American expats in Thailand, but my unscientific observation is that they are far outnumbered by Europeans and Australians. I'm not sure that most European tourists are big spenders either, although they will certainly outspend the Chinese.

As for Thailand trying to attract the low spending Chinese, IMHO they are making a mistake. I spent all of April touring Isaan and I spent 30,000k on a car rental alone, not counting gas. I stayed in hotels and ate in restaurants and spent money like a real tourist.

I truly didn't add up the cost, but with airfare it was a major amount compared to a backpacker or a Chinese tour. Thailand is blowing it. They say they want higher end tourists, and then they offer filth, scams, corruption, danger, and all else that would drive them away.

Sorry, you couldn't be more wrong. The Chinese tourists are right now the biggest spenders, anywhere. Why do you think Europe and the US go head over heels happily issuing visas to them?

Do you know of any other ethnic group that travels to a foreign country with the main objective being SHOPPING?

Think about this, Thailand wouldn't care at all if 2-3 million westerners didn't come, as long as they can replace them with Chinese.

Thailand doesn't care where foreigners come from as long as they spend. Chinese visitors are just starting to arrive in large numbers and their impact will be felt here in both positive and negative ways quite soon (many Thais in the tourism industry, particularly up in Chiang Mai are already experiencing these things). Chinese mostly go to places like Naraya, to buy nice but relatively cheap bags in a department store, where the chance of rip-offs are next to zero. They might also visit a local tourist market such as the night bazaar in Chiang Mai, but few of them would really go around independently off the beaten track and so therefore, their experiences are more limited than those of the Japanese, westerners and others who have been traveling to Thailand for eons.

I don't think that Europe or the USA would go "head over heels" to issue Chinese visitors with tourist visas. Generally speaking, each Chinese visitor is a potential immigrant and the only way most Chinese can visit these countries is by signing up for a tour, which means they are almost guaranteed to depart at the end of their stays. I have lived in China and know how hard it is for Chinese to visit most countries, particularly those in the west - don't make up some nonsense statement please.

Chinese tourist arrivals in USA forecasted 795,000 in 2013.

4.6 million Chinese tourists were expected to visit Europe in 2012

Read more: http://www.chinainternetwatch.com/1470/100-million-chinese-tourists-will-travel-outside-china-by-202/#ixzz2ZZACz7fV

Edited July 20, 2013 by simple1

[elzach]

I don't know a single American other than me who has ever vacationed in Thailand. The discussions come down to danger and filth.

To be fair, it is a very long trip and there are other much closer places with great weather and even bar girls if that's of interest.

I realize that there are American expats in Thailand, but my unscientific observation is that they are far outnumbered by Europeans and Australians. I'm not sure that most European tourists are big spenders either, although they will certainly outspend the Chinese.

As for Thailand trying to attract the low spending Chinese, IMHO they are making a mistake. I spent all of April touring Isaan and I spent 30,000k on a car rental alone, not counting gas. I stayed in hotels and ate in restaurants and spent money like a real tourist.

I truly didn't add up the cost, but with airfare it was a major amount compared to a backpacker or a Chinese tour. Thailand is blowing it. They say they want higher end tourists, and then they offer filth, scams, corruption, danger, and all else that would drive them away.

Sorry, you couldn't be more wrong. The Chinese tourists are right now the biggest spenders, anywhere. Why do you think Europe and the US go head over heels happily issuing visas to them?

Do you know of any other ethnic group that travels to a foreign country with the main objective being SHOPPING?

Think about this, Thailand wouldn't care at all if 2-3 million westerners didn't come, as long as they can replace them with Chinese.

Thailand doesn't care where foreigners come from as long as they spend. Chinese visitors are just starting to arrive in large numbers and their impact will be felt here in both positive and negative ways quite soon (many Thais in the tourism industry, particularly up in Chiang Mai are already experiencing these things). Chinese mostly go to places like Naraya, to buy nice but relatively cheap bags in a department store, where the chance of rip-offs are next to zero. They might also visit a local tourist market such as the night bazaar in Chiang Mai, but few of them would really go around independently off the beaten track and so therefore, their experiences are more limited than those of the Japanese, westerners and others who have been traveling to Thailand for eons.

I don't think that Europe or the USA would go "head over heels" to issue Chinese visitors with tourist visas. Generally speaking, each Chinese visitor is a potential immigrant and the only way most Chinese can visit these countries is by signing up for a tour, which means they are almost guaranteed to depart at the end of their stays. I have lived in China and know how hard it is for Chinese to visit most countries, particularly those in the west - don't make up some nonsense statement please.

You've been out of the loop for the last 2-3 years it seems. You would like to see statistics of Chinese tourist spending overseas? Or would you like to see statistics of visas issued by Europe and US to Chinese? and these are not just tour group visas any more.

Yes, it's hard for most Chinese to visit any country. But for about 50 million Chinese, it's very easy. They have the money and the visas are being issued.

So before you make a self-assured statement, do your research, please.

[dudu]

Any one been to Naples lately??

[SaamBaht]

What's really frustrating is that Thai authorities, even the ones with good intentions, lack the ability or willingness to tackle simple, recurring problems--like jet ski scams! This should be a no brainer to solve, yet it goes on without anyone doing anything to stop it.

How bout taxis and tuk-tuk gouging? Another problem that could easily be solved with consistent enforcement. But again, these guys have the government by the balls.

[bander]

Reading that article, it makes you wonder why any tourists come at all.....

Most tourists only read the tourist brochures with pictures of white beaches, night clubs and smiling thai people, when they arrive and get ripped off by the taxi driver, robbed in the hotel and threatened by the jet-ski mafia it's already to late to get a refund on the tour, but will they ever come back again?

[EyesWideOpen]

Thailand uses the roadside diner business model. Here is how it works.

A diner is located on a very busy highway. A tourist stops there to eat. It is the worst meal he has ever had, and he tells waitress that as he flings the bill money down with no tip, and storms out to his car. The waitress smiles, picks up the money, and a minute later another customer is sitting down ordering food....

This has worked very well for Thailand for many years, and is the cornerstone of why the endless scams have never been addressed. The gem scam has gone

on for many many years, has been profiled on international media, and yet the government has done exactly.....nothing. Why ???? They just do not care, as the next day another plane load of tourists will show up ready to be fleeced. And also too much money to be made.

Thailand will do something about the scams when and ONLY when the tourist number start dropping. A bit like Phuket moving into panic mode as tourism drops off due to the endless scams there. So sadly as long as planes full of Chinese tourist keep arriving so Yingluck can boast about increasing tourism numbers, NOTHING will be done about the scams.

As Thailand has chosen to do nothing about these scams, the next logical step is for the countries whose citizens are being scammed to do something. This could be in the form of warnings, or something even stronger. This would be a major loss of face for Thailand, when inbound airlines to Thailand are screening videos detailing scams to be aware of here. Personally I suggest that the best avenue would be for Thailand to actually do something on their own.

Edited July 20, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[Tomtomtom69]

I don't know a single American other than me who has ever vacationed in Thailand. The discussions come down to danger and filth.

To be fair, it is a very long trip and there are other much closer places with great weather and even bar girls if that's of interest.

I realize that there are American expats in Thailand, but my unscientific observation is that they are far outnumbered by Europeans and Australians. I'm not sure that most European tourists are big spenders either, although they will certainly outspend the Chinese.

As for Thailand trying to attract the low spending Chinese, IMHO they are making a mistake. I spent all of April touring Isaan and I spent 30,000k on a car rental alone, not counting gas. I stayed in hotels and ate in restaurants and spent money like a real tourist.

I truly didn't add up the cost, but with airfare it was a major amount compared to a backpacker or a Chinese tour. Thailand is blowing it. They say they want higher end tourists, and then they offer filth, scams, corruption, danger, and all else that would drive them away.

Sorry, you couldn't be more wrong. The Chinese tourists are right now the biggest spenders, anywhere. Why do you think Europe and the US go head over heels happily issuing visas to them?

Do you know of any other ethnic group that travels to a foreign country with the main objective being SHOPPING?

Think about this, Thailand wouldn't care at all if 2-3 million westerners didn't come, as long as they can replace them with Chinese.

Thailand doesn't care where foreigners come from as long as they spend. Chinese visitors are just starting to arrive in large numbers and their impact will be felt here in both positive and negative ways quite soon (many Thais in the tourism industry, particularly up in Chiang Mai are already experiencing these things). Chinese mostly go to places like Naraya, to buy nice but relatively cheap bags in a department store, where the chance of rip-offs are next to zero. They might also visit a local tourist market such as the night bazaar in Chiang Mai, but few of them would really go around independently off the beaten track and so therefore, their experiences are more limited than those of the Japanese, westerners and others who have been traveling to Thailand for eons.

I don't think that Europe or the USA would go "head over heels" to issue Chinese visitors with tourist visas. Generally speaking, each Chinese visitor is a potential immigrant and the only way most Chinese can visit these countries is by signing up for a tour, which means they are almost guaranteed to depart at the end of their stays. I have lived in China and know how hard it is for Chinese to visit most countries, particularly those in the west - don't make up some nonsense statement please.

Chinese tourist arrivals in USA forecasted 795,000 in 2013.

4.6 million Chinese tourists were expected to visit Europe in 2012

Read more: http://www.chinainternetwatch.com/1470/100-million-chinese-tourists-will-travel-outside-china-by-202/#ixzz2ZZACz7fV

Sure Chinese tourist numbers are increasing to Europe and the USA but this does not mean they can just hop on a plane and go. They have more and more money to spend and thus can afford to spend money on tours.

[Nuna]

For me as a Thai, less tourist is better since I want to give my government some lesson that we can not rely our future and economy on tourism alone. Too easy visa issue brings illegal, criminal tourists and illegal workers that causes a lot of problem here. Samurai gangs in Chiangmai already replaced by Burmese gangs. Police turn-burglars from abroad. Thailand suffocated from its own problems. We don't need anymore problem from abroad.

[dudu]

For me as a Thai, less tourist is better since I want to give my government some lesson that we can not rely our future and economy on tourism alone. Too easy visa issue brings illegal, criminal tourists and illegal workers that causes a lot of problem here. Samurai gangs in Chiangmai already replaced by Burmese gangs. Police turn-burglars from abroad. Thailand suffocated from its own problems. We don't need anymore problem from abroad.

As a farang, i am left with the choice, stay or go, i came here because Thailand is what it is, not for what it isn't, and that is,not like where i came from, i have liberties here other Australians only dream about, sure there are things that bother me, but very trivial, compared to the same problem in my own country, let Thailand be what it is and enjoy it while it lasts, we cant see the forrest for the trees sometimes!....

[Nuna]

My wife is Thai and she has little inclination to return to Thailand except out of necessity and she is not alone in feeling that way

UK has it's problems but generally speaking it is a very SAFE country in which to live and work. Thailand has become like the Philippines where one is always looking over one's shoulder in case there is someone wishing to do one harm

It is not only physical hurt to be wary of. Business dealings from the smallest to the largest are fraught with danger and Thais will take any opportunity to 'rip off' the naive or unsuspecting.

Like the Phil what could have been a nation paradise has degenrated beyond all recognition over the past thirty years. The sickness is terminal

Some rural girls always want to go abroad, escape from poverty. It's no surprise for me.

And quite different from well educated Thais especially who graduated from abroad. They can choose to live here or there. Some prefer other countries but some prefer Thailand depends on what they have experienced.

[EyesWideOpen]

My wife is Thai and she has little inclination to return to Thailand except out of necessity and she is not alone in feeling that way

UK has it's problems but generally speaking it is a very SAFE country in which to live and work. Thailand has become like the Philippines where one is always looking over one's shoulder in case there is someone wishing to do one harm

It is not only physical hurt to be wary of. Business dealings from the smallest to the largest are fraught with danger and Thais will take any opportunity to 'rip off' the naive or unsuspecting.

Like the Phil what could have been a nation paradise has degenrated beyond all recognition over the past thirty years. The sickness is terminal

Some rural girls always want to go abroad, escape from poverty. It's no surprise for me.

And quite different from well educated Thais especially who graduated from abroad. They can choose to live here or there. Some prefer other countries but some prefer Thailand depends on what they have experienced.

Yes, I suspect the class system would radically affect how a Thai would perceive Thailand. If you grew up as a member of the rural poor, meaning in the Thai social system you were less than nothing, then traveling to and living in a western country would be like entering paradise. If you were a member of the wealthy elite liege lords here, then life here would be fantastic as in essence you can do anything you want up to and including killing people, and get away with it. If the elites moved to a western country, they would just be another foreigner with a few bucks to their name, and would be subject to the exact same laws as all the other poor people. Cannot have that..... :-)