Learning Thai - Uni, Language School or Private Tutor?

[SlyAnimal]

Hi All,

Next year after I get married, my fiance and I are thinking about moving out of the sticks so that I can study Thai and my fiancé might do a grad dip or masters (Or we might return to NZ).

I'm not sure which city we will study in yet (Probably BKK but maybe somewhere near a beach). However I also want to weigh up the different types of institutions, so that I at least know where to consider.

Way I figure it, if I can aim towards a graduate diploma or masters via a Thai university that'd be a lot of recognition for having learnt it in Thai. Whether I do one or not I'll wait and see, but it'd be fun (going back to uni and the general social atmosphere). I think if Chinese students can do it, then so can I.

But before I get to that point, I need to improve my Thai significantly. I'm learning a little more each week, but my gf teaching me stuff now and then just isn't structured enough. Also it'd be nice to hear a bit more Thai rather than Isaan. I can read and write (not so quickly or accurately though, gf compares me to Prattom 2 lol), so learn new words that I read on signs etc but if I'm going to be here long term I want more than that.

So from your experience, or if you could go back and relearn Thai, how would you do it?

Would you goto a university to do Thai as a second language? If so which universities offer this that you could recommend?

Or would you goto a language school like Walen? If so which ones can you personally recommend?

Or would you get a private tutor? Although I figure that if I'm taking language classes my gf will act as a kinda private tutor as well.

Edit changed from M2 to P2 - I work at a high school so have Mattayom on the brain soto speak lol

[kriswillems]

Looks like you're a serious student. Since you're planning to study at a Thai university, I would choose for the Thai course a Chula to prepare for that.

I think you can study in a university that has Thai as first language after this course, as long as the subjects you study at university are not language related (for instance engineering).

If you level is really ม.2, which is my opinion very high (I think the average Thai is about at ม.2 level), you might consider private tuition at one of the better language schools, because even the best schools only go until about ป.6 level in their classroom courses.

First thing you need to know is your level. I would do the test a Chula or join the government test in December. Be careful, because most schools will tell they have a course for your level, even if they don't have such a course.

At all costs I would avoid schools that focus on providing visa services to students (you'll find the words like VISA, or "unlimited stay" in big letters in their advertisements or banners). They teach at a beginners level and you wouldn't get anything from such courses.

I can advise any school that teaches based on the union system. Look for schools that help preparing for the government test, as you can be sure their level is not very low.

Edited July 20, 2013 by kriswillems

[rgs2001uk]

I can only offer the same advice as Kris.

Next time you are in Bkk go to a school such as UTL in Times Sq Suk Rd, they will give you a quick test that should assess where you are.

These sort of schools are geared up to take students to P6 level, if you really are M2 level thats quite an achievement, if so head straight to Chula.

I personally couldnt do Chula, studying everyday for a year, not for me, but hats off to anyone who manages it.

If I had to go back and relearn, the first thing I would do is forget everything I thought I knew, wrong tones, incorrect vowel lengths etc, I would also head straight to a decent school (I wasted time and money at one that was useless) for some serious learning.

I wouldnt worry about face, I had no problem repeating modules (some Asian Students who couldnt keep up dropped out and changed schools because of loss of face).

I would also make up a plan of what I wanted and the timeframe for doing so, then seek out whatever learning establishment can provide for my needs.

[AyG]

I think the OP first needs to get a better assessment of his current level of ability. Based upon what he's written, I rather doubt it genuinely is ม.2. At that level one would be able to read a newspaper fluently, not "not so quickly". One way to do that would be the Chula test. However, probably easier is to approach one of the Union-method-based schools (Union, Unity, Piamitr and one or two others). They'll initially assess your level and then put you in a class suitable for that level. See how you get on. If you're placed above level 6 then discuss the possibility of doing the government test. I believe all these schools run a test preparation course which is well worth doing - there's quite a lot of very specific knowledge required for the test.

Realistically, if you're much above ป.6 these schools aren't going to be of enormous help to you. (You'll be held back by other students in the class.) Chula would be the only way to go in my opinion.

I would, however, question one of the OP's assertions about gaining a qualification in Thai: "a lot of recognition for having learnt it in Thai." Who's going to give the recognition? It's not going to help much with any employer in Thailand given that for any position there will be Thai people who will be equally qualified and not have all the added complications of hiring a foreigner, will probably work for less pay, and will be more culturally attuned to Thai ways.

[Zooheekock]

Sumaa school (in Sathorn) is a possibility. It's run by people who used to teach on the Chula programme and their clients have included the British Ambassador (and possibly the American too, but I'm not sure about that) so they have some pedigree. They're not cheap and they don't get involved with visas but if you're at an advanced level, they are an alternative.

[SlyAnimal]

Whoops should be B2 not M2.

I work at a high school so have mattayom on the brain soto speak lol

[kriswillems]

Whoops should be B2 not M2.

I work at a high school so have mattayom on the brain soto speak lol

B2 = P2 = ป.2 ?

Ok, even if your level is much lower than initially thought, I think you can still use the advice given, because you clearly intend to study until a high level. All schools advised (including Chula) would be excellent choices in this case.

[AyG]

OP, if you're at ป.2 level, I would suggest that the Chula option isn't for you because, as far as I know, you can't readily repeat levels. One of the Union method-based places would be better since you can easily repeat levels as required. (To qualify that, in my experience, only levels 1-6, social problems and newspapers 1 & 2 are run regularly. Other advanced modules aren't available every term.)

You'll then need Chula, or something similar, to get you ready for university-level study. Realistically speaking, even if you're a very diligent student, you're several years away from that level.

[SlyAnimal]

Ok so probably doing a bit of study at a language school for preparation, to bring up my level a bit, and then going to somewhere like Chula is probably the best option.

And yeah I'm not too fussed if it takes a year or two to get my level of Thai up to a good standard. Maybe 6-12 months at a language school then 1 year at Chula to prepare for studying in general classes?

Either way I figure it'll be worth it to develop skills which will greatly assist me if I'm going to be in Thailand long term. Also studying in a city should be fun, and a lot more social that teaching English in the countryside has been lol (Although being an English teacher is very intrinsically rewarding, and once I've learnt more Thai I might even come back to it. However I feel I need a better understanding of Thai if I'm going to live here long term).

[Zooheekock]

Obviously it depends on the person but getting to the level of being relatively comfortable in a university class is going to take some time. By way of comparison, I've just seen a study of 112 IELTS students in Australia and NZ - on average, their mark improved by 0.5 after a full-time 3-month course.

[AyG]

Sorry, OP, I think you're delusional. It takes native speakers 10 years to get from ป.2 to ม.6 - and they are speaking, reading and writing only their language. You think you can do the same in a couple of years? It's a hopeless daydream.

[SlyAnimal]

Sorry, OP, I think you're delusional. It takes native speakers 10 years to get from ป.2 to ม.6 - and they are speaking, reading and writing only their language. You think you can do the same in a couple of years? It's a hopeless daydream.

If Chinese students can not study Thai at all, only starting when they get to University (In China), study for 2 years (While also studying International business). Then come to Thailand and finish the last 2 years of their international business degree, in Thai. Then I really fail to see how I would be "delusional".

Chinese students have a lot better work ethic than me, so I anticipate it being difficult, but not unreasonably so (Particularly as I'll be just studying Thai, not int business as well, while in Thailand and will have a full time tutor (gf) to assist me.)

Thai students have enough Thai to goto university well before M6, from M1-M6 their Thai doesn't improve a lot, much the same as our English doesn't improve much during high school. It's the other skills they need which require an M6 education.

But hey I'm going to play it by ear anyway. I might decide after a year or so that I'm sick of studying or sick of Thailand, so we'll see how it goes

[Zooheekock]

If Chinese students can not study Thai at all, only starting when they get to University (In China), study for 2 years (While also studying International business). Then come to Thailand and finish the last 2 years of their international business degree, in Thai. Then I really fail to see how I would be "delusional".

I wouldn't say that it's delusional but it's highly optimistic. If you've got a natural gift for languages, you have two years to devote to full-time study, you've been blessed with an absolute iron will and you get a very strong tailwind, it might happen. You could also look at the Thai open university. This page has links to the curriculum for the Thai Studies course - if I ever get Chinese levels of self-control and knuckle down to study properly, I will seriously consider doing this.

[harrry]

I hava a suggestion. Consider moving to Chiangrai and doing a masters etc at MahaFahLuang. Nominally they teach in English to all students however the standard of the lecturers is such that they teach largely in Thai. Because the books are mostly in English you may find it easier to learn Thai there too.

[SlyAnimal]

I'm always reasonably optimistic about most things. I'm not gifted with languages, in fact they are usually a weakness of mine. Likewise I don't have an iron will towards studying, which is why I need a more structured environment to push me, as while learning by myself I've been reasonably lazy. But when I want to do something, I usually don't let too much get in the way of me achieving my goals.

But yeah I figure I can teach my students 8-10 new words in a 50min period (actually 35mins after taking the roll + most of them being 10mins late), and have them retain all/most of the words without any problems (provided I build on them in the next lesson or give them a couple of minutes quick revision during subsequent lessons). They learn sentences and how to use the words properly + spelling + pronunciation while they are learning.

Assuming a language school can do the same for me, with 1x 50min lesson per day, 5 days per week, 30 weeks per academic year, I should be able to learn around 3000 words per year (with just say 2h a day of study (1h inclass 1h tutoring/homework))

Except that I'd hope that they could do more than 1h a day if I'm available to study full time, maybe even up to 3 or 4h of class time per day if I could. Thus I hope that I would be able to learn a lot more words than this.

Also I would hope that by living in Thailand, and thus using Thai every day, I would learn more again.

With the Thai language structure being much more logical than English I hope I'd be able to work out the meaning of even more words again as my vocabulary expands (hopefully even ones out of context, as I can usually work out a lot of words already provided I have the context).

[harrry]

Maybe you could both move to Chiangrai and both study degrees at MFU where they are supposed to teach everyone in English but as the lecturers skills in ENglish is poor Thai is extensively used. With the Thai Conversation Course that you have to do while there as part of the course you have a good chance of really learning Thai (and your wife improving her English reading) at the same time.

[Zooheekock]

Optimism is a commendable trait but only as long as it doesn't obscure reality. In my years teaching IELTS, one of the most constantly recurring mistakes people make is to overestimate (usually vastly) the speed with which they can improve their language abilities. You can't, for example, compare the rate at which beginners or elementary students (assuming your pupils are just that) acquire vocabulary with what's going to happen at upper-intermediate/advanced level. And 'learn sentences and how to use the words properly + spelling + pronunciation while they are learning' just doesn't happen in 35 minutes. Pronunciation is a life-long struggle for most of us and the subtleties of language use and word choice (the kind of thing you need to start worrying about at intermediate level and over) opens up whole new worlds of difficulty. As for Thai being 'more logical' than English...well, I'm not sure what that means but rhetoric and discourse-level structures (the kind of thing you need to master at higher levels) can differ fairly markedly from English.

And, as I said, a 200-250 hour intensive English course resulted in an average bump of half an IELTS band for students who are every bit as motivated as you and every bit as immersed in the target language/culture. So, if you were similar to the average and you studied like a complete madman for two years, you might go up 4 IELTS bands, which is probably somewhat similar to what you need to do. Of course, you might be above average, but then again, you might be below average.

Still, all that said, I wish you luck.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

But yeah I figure I can teach my students 8-10 new words in a 50min period (actually 35mins after taking the roll + most of them being 10mins late), and have them retain all/most of the words without any problems (provided I build on them in the next lesson or give them a couple of minutes quick revision during subsequent lessons). They learn sentences and how to use the words properly + spelling + pronunciation while they are learning.

Thai language schools don't understand the concept of 'build on them', it's a major problem that every class I have attended has complete 'stand alone' lessons. No revision, no linking back to previous lessons.

PS

Not Walen, trust me on this one.

[kriswillems]

I think somebody with above average talent for languages, or and above average intelligence (= university level student), can reach a high level, ready to start at university in less than 2 years.

If this is your goal, I would go to Chula from the beginning. The Chula courses start at a beginners level, but they progress very quickly. The workload you've to expect similar to that of any university education in Europe or the USA. So, it will be a (more than) full time thing (think about 10 or more hours per day). You're expected to study at lot at home.

My experience with union system is that students can reach ป.6 in 9 months to 1 year. Some exceptions reached it after 6 months. And I think the union courses are pretty slow going for somebody that is prepared to study 10 hours or more per day (I was). One month I combined morning and afternoon courses, so I spent 6 hours per day in the classroom and 5 hours per day in the bus to go to school. I basically studied all the time (also in the bus). If you do only the morning courses you'll spent about 3 hours in the classroom and you'll spend about 2 hours on homework.

The step from ป.ุ6 to ม.ุุุุุ6 is a huge step and it's very likely you'll never reach this level. But in my opinion, it's not necessary to reach this level if you're going to something not language related at university. I can read technical university books without too many problems, but the newspaper is sometimes still hard for me.

Edited July 21, 2013 by kriswillems

[Slappz]

From what I read about Chula it was pretty expensive, I bet you get more value for your money and time with a private tutor.

Some red flags that pop out - you've been learning on your own and/or thru your gf? Expect to have many bad habits. Fixing a bad habit can take twice as long as learning from scratch. You gotta break down the habit and build it back up correctly. This happens with many students from some language schools. If you have strong goals in Thai you wanna squash out the mistakes early and often. Most ppl can get away with these fundamental mistakes but not those who want to study at a university level.

Regardless of what you decide you should be studying everyday - no exceptions. Don't bother setting high goals if you can't build a strong work ethic to match it. Good luck!

P.S. Don't rely on your gf as a tutor. Pay someone and take it seriously.

[SlyAnimal]

Hmm I heard back from Chula. They offer 9x 6 week levels, for which I'd want to go through all levels if I can. As I agree with the previous poster, that I'll need to relearn some things and some of the basics I need to focus on in order to get them right e.g.tones and งู lol.

However Chula have said its 25,000฿ per level, which wont leave me with that much money for living costs (particularly as if I study, my gf wants to study as well /sigh). I'm still considering it, but may also look at other options.

[SlyAnimal]

*oh that's 25,000฿ per 6 week course which is approximately 90 hours of class time (3h per day 5 days per week) and 10 hours of other activities. Works out to around 250฿ per hour, so pretty expensive compared to if you were Thai learning English, but its not really too "unreasonable" considering its Chula.

I expect that it'll be possible to do around 5 - 6 x levels per year, so I should be able to finish their 9 levels in under 2 years provided I don't need to repeat any levels.

Hopefully studying at the university gives me access to all of the university's facilities. As one of the important things I want to do if I go there, is get involved in lots of social activities for fun, networking and to practice my Thai more in social contexts.

[guyinthai13]

University is a waste of cash these days as all the data you need is online for free, but you won't get a educational transcript.

Thai is similar as it does not have much commercial value compared to other subjects that can be studied at univeristy.

<link to website removed as per forum rules>

Walen school would be way below your level from what I have experienced at a demo lesson for advanced students.

I have taught in the Thai High school system and it does not require any qualifications at all.

I have also studies Thai through my own textbooks and material, the language schools are only for visa purposes.

Edited July 30, 2013 by SeaVisionBurma
Removed URL to external site

[koknia]

If Chinese students can not study Thai at all, only starting when they get to University (In China), study for 2 years (While also studying International business). Then come to Thailand and finish the last 2 years of their international business degree, in Thai. Then I really fail to see how I would be "delusional".

I don't think you can use Chinese students for comparison. Chinese students grow up speaking a tonal language. Thai is easy and natural for them to learn, like a Portuguese learning Italian. For Westerners the learning curve is much more steep.

The same works the other way. I live here but work in Hong Kong 3-4 months a year. I know Thais there who are fluent in Cantonese after a year.

[Wavefloater]

There's an international university in Chomburi province called Asian University, and I think they have intensive English courses, as well as undergraduate studies. They're located at what must be about 30 kilometers from Pattaya, on highway 331. I've driven by it many times and it looks like a nice rustic environment to study in.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Wavefloater

[CaptHaddock]

In my opinion it would be a big mistake to study at any of the numerous "cheap" Thai language schools. By comparison with Chula the difference is between low-level, Thai-style education standards at the cheapies and a standard comparable to a Western university at Chula. I did the first three levels of Chula a couple of years ago. It is quite a challenge, e.g. vocabulary load is at least 30 new words per day, but actually it got as high as 1000 words per session (then, six weeks = 100 hours. now, five weeks = 90 hours.) The Chinese, Korean, and Japanese students are quite impressive and keep up with this pace pretty well. Some of the westerners do, also.

In the context of Thailand the Chula course is expensive. In the context of US universities, it is cheap. At the end of the 9 sessions some of the students go on to university or grad-level study at a Thai university. If you go over the the Chula Intensive Thai Program you can interview teachers and students. You won't be able to sit in on a class though. If you have the chance to talk to an advanced student (who are relatively scarce) you can get an account of what level of language competence you can expect to achieve in the program. I doubt if you will encounter any similarly advanced students at the cheapie schools.

Alternatives such as learning informally from friends or teaching yourself from books and tapes are naive and certain to fail, in my opinion.

*oh that's 25,000฿ per 6 week course which is approximately 90 hours of class time (3h per day 5 days per week) and 10 hours of other activities. Works out to around 250฿ per hour, so pretty expensive compared to if you were Thai learning English, but its not really too "unreasonable" considering its Chula.

I expect that it'll be possible to do around 5 - 6 x levels per year, so I should be able to finish their 9 levels in under 2 years provided I don't need to repeat any levels.

Hopefully studying at the university gives me access to all of the university's facilities. As one of the important things I want to do if I go there, is get involved in lots of social activities for fun, networking and to practice my Thai more in social contexts.

[kriswillems]

I think the main reason Chinese, Korean and Japanese students are so quick in learning Thai is that they don't speak English and that they have the correct attitude. Japanese is not a tonal and they are just as quick. If you want to achieve something quickly you've to work hard. So, you can skip all schools that teach only 3 or 4 hours per week and don't give homework. These are typically the schools attended by farangs.

Edited August 2, 2013 by kriswillems

[Canaris]

Schools only offering 3-4 hours per week are typically schools whose main attraction is Ed Visa's. The farangs attending these schools reflect it in their attitude etc. etc. etc.. Therefore, if you are serious about learning Thai choose a serious school such as a University.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Canaris

[SlyAnimal]

I've been looking into a few options and am probably going to initially study Thai at AUA, their office is just up the road from Chula so I can then live close to both.

The course at AUA looks like its at a relatively low level (the videos they have for their listening course I could understand pretty much everything easily). But it'll get me more into the habit of listening to Thai, which I feel is my biggest weakness at present (Although that could also be because I mainly listen to Isaan people speaking Thai, they always seem more difficult to understand than BKK people, even when speaking Thai not Isaan) and I'll probably try and take their writing course at the same time since it seems quite well structured and will help to fill my learning gaps.

I'll then see how I like the courses there. If they are a bit slow for me, or don't goto the levels I want, then I can easily switch to Chula, possibly starting at a slightly higher level, since I should be a bit more confident in my Thai, in an academic context (At present I have a lot of "gaps" simply because I've had no formal training).

Even if I do start at Chula, I might still keep going to some of the AUA listening lessons as they seem quite laid back, but would be extra reinforcement/practice for me (and are quite cheap + flexible).

Although in saying all that. Has anyone studied at AUA? What is their course like?

My gf studied English there and thinks the world of them as an English language school. But I have no idea about them as a Thai language school. They are roughly half the price of Chula, so a little easier on my bank balance while I initially get setup in Bangkok.

[harrry]

AUA are good but if you want to learn thai to a univeristy capable level you really have to choices. Chula which whill keep you fully engaged for at least a year or to a lesser level but still high a well run Union style course.