UK Spouse Visas, supporting documents, originals etc?

[penwithcris]

I had the unenviable task of seeking a visitor and subsequently a spouse visa for a young lady 40 years younger than me that I had met in Pattaya. Just the kind of applications that the Entry Clearance Officers are happy to consign to their waste paper baskets.

My initial advice would be to avoid 'agents' like the plague. Had I used an agent in this difficult case i would doubtless have ended up 90,000 baht out of pocket and still without a visa for my girlfriend.

There are a 1001 reasons why ECO's reject applications so all their likely objections must be overcome and it is just not down to the paperwork and whether or not original documents are submitted.

One must first demonstrate that you have entered into a 'meaningful' relationship and that doesn't mean meeting online or in a beerbar and then returning home two weeks later to start to apply for a visa.

It might well take a year or more to satisfy the ECO's that the relationship is meaningful and this will probably mean returning time and time again to Thailand. Keep every shred of evidence of time spent together, dated photographs, hotel and travel receipts etc etc.

Ensure that your girlfriend establishes herself in some form of employment and she keeps detailed records of her income, employers names and telephone numbers etc. You can rest assured that a inquisitive ECO will make telephone contact with all the establishments that appear on your application. Be like George Washington and 'never tell a lie'

The most important hurdle that must be overcome is to demonstrate that your girlfriend has assets of her own whether that be financial assets, a steady job or a home and land in Thailand. If she is as serious as you are tell her to arrange the family home to be given to her as a 'gift' from the family so that it can be shown as hers in the local land registry.

It is essential to establish that the visa applicant has several reasons to remain in Thailand and that she does not want to leave her home for economic reasons.

We all know that in 99 percent of cases it is economics rather than love that spur a young Thai lady on to meet and marry a Farang but that is the culture and has to be accepted

So be very patient and very honest. Imagine yourself as the ECO examining your application. Is there anything within it that casts doubt on its legitimacy?

I have occasionally tried to help individuals applying for visas for their girlfriends but so often they refuse to accept sensible advice and end up disappointed and heartbroken that their dream of their lovely Thai girlfriend living with them in their home country is shattered

I produced over 120 pages of evidence to support my applications. Fortunately even the eagle eyed ECO'scould find no reason to disapply and visitor and spouse visas were duly issued much to the amazement of veteran observers

Good luck with your application. Just use your commonsense.

[7by7]

Sorry, but much of the above does not bear much relationship with reality; e.g "There are a 1001 reasons why ECO's reject applications" There are only two reasons why applications are unsuccessful:

1. The applicant did not meet the criteria for the visa applied for,
2. The applicant did meet the criteria, but failed to show that they did.

Also, your advice is geared towards a visit application and reasons to return. The OP is asking about settlement; as the topic title makes clear. Therefore 'reason to return' will not be a consideration.

ECO's are not looking for reasons to reject, they are looking to see if the application meets the relevant criteria.

Success rate for UK visas, visit and settlement, in Thailand is consistently above 90%, so I cannot see why your friends were amazed when you were successful.

Edited July 28, 2013 by 7by7

[theoldgit]

Can I remind posters that this thread is regarding documentation required for a spouse visa, not how to build up a case.

If you're going to post on this thread please read and understand the question, and only answer if you have something constructive to say.

[Rob180]

I had the unenviable task of seeking a visitor and subsequently a spouse visa for a young lady 40 years younger than me that I had met in Pattaya. Just the kind of applications that the Entry Clearance Officers are happy to consign to their waste paper baskets.

My initial advice would be to avoid 'agents' like the plague. Had I used an agent in this difficult case i would doubtless have ended up 90,000 baht out of pocket and still without a visa for my girlfriend.

There are a 1001 reasons why ECO's reject applications so all their likely objections must be overcome and it is just not down to the paperwork and whether or not original documents are submitted.

One must first demonstrate that you have entered into a 'meaningful' relationship and that doesn't mean meeting online or in a beerbar and then returning home two weeks later to start to apply for a visa.

It might well take a year or more to satisfy the ECO's that the relationship is meaningful and this will probably mean returning time and time again to Thailand. Keep every shred of evidence of time spent together, dated photographs, hotel and travel receipts etc etc.

Ensure that your girlfriend establishes herself in some form of employment and she keeps detailed records of her income, employers names and telephone numbers etc. You can rest assured that a inquisitive ECO will make telephone contact with all the establishments that appear on your application. Be like George Washington and 'never tell a lie'

The most important hurdle that must be overcome is to demonstrate that your girlfriend has assets of her own whether that be financial assets, a steady job or a home and land in Thailand. If she is as serious as you are tell her to arrange the family home to be given to her as a 'gift' from the family so that it can be shown as hers in the local land registry.

It is essential to establish that the visa applicant has several reasons to remain in Thailand and that she does not want to leave her home for economic reasons.

We all know that in 99 percent of cases it is economics rather than love that spur a young Thai lady on to meet and marry a Farang but that is the culture and has to be accepted

So be very patient and very honest. Imagine yourself as the ECO examining your application. Is there anything within it that casts doubt on its legitimacy?

I have occasionally tried to help individuals applying for visas for their girlfriends but so often they refuse to accept sensible advice and end up disappointed and heartbroken that their dream of their lovely Thai girlfriend living with them in their home country is shattered

I produced over 120 pages of evidence to support my applications. Fortunately even the eagle eyed ECO'scould find no reason to disapply and visitor and spouse visas were duly issued much to the amazement of veteran observers

Good luck with your application. Just use your commonsense.

I don't understand some of the points you are making. You said... 'had I used an Agent I would have ended up 90,000 out of pocket and still without a Visa'. Agents don't charge 90k, but I presume you are including the Embassy fee in this 90k you mention? I'm unsure as to how you can make a statement like that if you have never used one? I would imagine a case like yours is looked at in microscopic detail by the Embassy because of the substantial age gap of 40 years, hence I would suspect if you had used a good agent you may have had less trouble not more!

[7by7]

For phone bills and similar, if you don't receive paper bills then print outs from your online account should be ok; but you should self certify them by writing on them; "I certify this is a true copy of (document)" and signing and dating it.

Official documents should be originals if possible; but you don't need Land Registry documents.

If you own the property then a mortgage statement with your name and the address of the property on it will show this, together with a brief description of the property and who else, if anyone, lives there will suffice. If there is no mortgage then a certified copy of the deeds will do.

If you rent, then a letter from your landlord confirming she can live there and that there is room for her is all you need.

There has been some over the top post advising on what is required in this topic; don't let them make things seem more complicated than they actually are. The list of document required re accommodation posted earlier is taken from the official guide and, despite what the poster concerned says, is a list of suggested documents you may wish to provide. There is no need to provide them all, as the guide itself makes clear.

[Rob180]

Thanks 7by7, I actually have a recent Land Registry document as I wanted to look at it for other reasons, so I could probably submit this anyway along with a mortgage statement. Yes, the talk about Property Inspections made me wonder as I'd never heard of that being needed. I appreciate all your help and everyone else's with all this, but I think I'm going to get a good agent to deal with it. If I was living in Thailand I think I could do it myself, but from the UK it sounds like a potential nightmare.

[TCA]

Lucky I found this as we are going for the spouse visa this time without the agent & was planning the same approach over scanning the docs & printing them again.

 

The agent would still be accepting e-mails if we did it through her again though, she offered a guaranteed visa or we get her fee back and I've known her 10 years so she isn't about to lie to me.

She can guarantee giving you her fee back if you fail but she can't guarantee your application being successful. Not quite the same thing. Your visa application fee is non-refundable either way. That's what's really at stake.

Your application will pass or fail pending submission of documents fulfilling the criteria. An agent can help presentation and guide as to what to submit but the strength of your case is a matter of fact and nobody can guarantee success for an applicant who doesn't meet the requirements.

I didn't use an agent for my wife's (thankfully successful) spouse visa application and it was pretty hard work at times but far from impossible. Thanks to the good guys on this forum. Good luck!

[TCA]

I appreciate all your help and everyone else's with all this, but I think I'm going to get a good agent to deal with it. If I was living in Thailand I think I could do it myself, but from the UK it sounds like a potential nightmare. 

I started my wife's application in Thailand and together we gathered all the Thai documents we could muster. I took these back to the UK where I completed the application with all the UK docs and sent the finished article back by post for submission by my wife but remained in the UK myself. Messy but it worked. You'd be doing just that in reverse!

What's stopping you doing what you can of the online application in the UK and completing when you get to Thailand with your documents? And get your girlfriend to gather as much as she can from her end before you get there?

Having said that, if she's anything like my missus you'll end up having to repeat the process when you get there anyway, so I couldn't blame you for using an agent. Thai Visa Express who post on here are knowledgeable helpful guys.

[penwithcris]

I mention 90,000 Thai baht as an agent's fee as this is the amount I was asked for by the agency that operates from the next room to the official visa application reception area.

The figure of 90 percent success rate surprises me as every envelope that was opened in the 'results' room seemed to contain a rejection and lots of guys very shell shocked and angry that they'd been knocked back often for the second or third time

It is always a little disappointing that some posters can be quite confrontational in their replies. Most posters are only trying to assist the questioner.

I can only speak from my own experience.

[7by7]

The draconian Thai defamation laws and hence the forum rules prevent me from commenting in too much detail upon the agent operating in Regent's House. But:-

You report so many of that agent's clients were rejected when the overall success rate is so high; speaks volumes about that agent in my honest opinion.

90,000 baht agent's fee! More than double what most reputable agents charge.

BTW, despite the claims made by them often reported here and on other forums, that agent is not connected in any way, shape or form with the UKVAC, UKV&I nor the British embassy.

Edited July 29, 2013 by 7by7

[penwithcris]

Having brought my Thai wife to UK some seven years ago I am really surprised that the agency that quoted me 90,000 baht continues to operate next to the official reception area. It is not a situation that would be permitted in most countries that visas were being sought for

The way that their representatives hovered over unsuccessful applicants when they opened their bad news in the reception area suggested to me that in some telepathic way they were already aware of the refusal?

Wonder how that could be?

[7by7]

Complaints about this agency have been made before.

Unfortunately, neither VFS, who run the UKVAC, nor the British embassy have any control over who the owners of Regents House rent office space to.

I understand the VACs of other countries in other locations have a similar problem.

As passports etc. are returned to the VAC in sealed packages no one outside the visa section at the embassy, including the applicant, is aware of the result until the applicant or their pre appointed agent opens that envelope.

[2yearvisitvisa]

That is all I prepared to say on an open forum. Take it to PM.