Thailand's bus operators risk passenger safety for profits: expert

[Muirton]

"So now my question to all of these various commentators is this. If Thailand in the whole is now SO bad and corrupt, why do you all still prefer to reside in Thailand?"

Because the criticisms are justified. Duh.

[jbrain]

Many a comment has been entered here in great criticism against Thailand, Thai culture, Thai custom, Thai Government, Thai transport services and the corrupted Thai nation. Almost every single comment does in itself hold some truth and a lot of exaggeration. The most of these comments were passed by foreigners apparently residing in Thailand.

So now my question to all of these various commentators is this. If Thailand in the whole is now SO bad and corrupt, why do you all still prefer to reside in Thailand? I mean, why don't you just exercise you democratic human right and MOVE elsewhere?

After-all, there IS an entire planet earth out there where I'm sure you could find a place suiting your exact preferences, don't you think?

When reading your post my first impression was, how can someone be so ignorant.

A quick run through your previous 34 posts, pointed out that each and all were actually criticism on other posters.

So, I have a similar question to you, why not move to another forum as it is your democratic right.

Edited July 26, 2013 by jbrain

[jimbeam1]

Everyone knows that Thai buses and vans are death traps, but they keep coming. Thais are just now writing news about this. That's preposterous in and of itself. Several letters were written to the Thai editorial press of the two major English newspapers detailing the unsafe conditions of vans from Mo-Chit to Thammasat University in 2008. Not a thing was ever done. Then there were the accidents with the 16 year old driving and there was some brief skirmishing around. Then, as usual, it was dropped as is the Thai custom. Now, again, the academic speaks out as if no one ever knew or was aware of unsafe buses, vans, and trucks, not to speak of motorcycle havoc and Tuk Tuk mayhem in Thailand. Thailand is a moving death trap.

Ok the manufacture of these vehicles is crap.

But when it comes down to the nitty gritty it is still mostly down to driver error.

Isn't toughened glass standard procedure. There should be a special little hammer positioned next to the window for breaking the glass in an emergency. In fact I have seen on a lot of buses the empty holder where these hammers should be. Guess they got nicked.

jb1

[jimbeam1]

Everyone knows that Thai buses and vans are death traps, but they keep coming. Thais are just now writing news about this. That's preposterous in and of itself. Several letters were written to the Thai editorial press of the two major English newspapers detailing the unsafe conditions of vans from Mo-Chit to Thammasat University in 2008. Not a thing was ever done. Then there were the accidents with the 16 year old driving and there was some brief skirmishing around. Then, as usual, it was dropped as is the Thai custom. Now, again, the academic speaks out as if no one ever knew or was aware of unsafe buses, vans, and trucks, not to speak of motorcycle havoc and Tuk Tuk mayhem in Thailand. Thailand is a moving death trap.

Ok the manufacture of these vehicles is crap.

But when it comes down to the nitty gritty it is still mostly down to driver error.

Isn't toughened glass standard procedure. There should be a special little hammer positioned next to the window for breaking the glass in an emergency. In fact I have seen on a lot of buses the empty holder where these hammers should be. Guess they got nicked.

jb1

[jimbeam1]

Everyone knows that Thai buses and vans are death traps, but they keep coming. Thais are just now writing news about this. That's preposterous in and of itself. Several letters were written to the Thai editorial press of the two major English newspapers detailing the unsafe conditions of vans from Mo-Chit to Thammasat University in 2008. Not a thing was ever done. Then there were the accidents with the 16 year old driving and there was some brief skirmishing around. Then, as usual, it was dropped as is the Thai custom. Now, again, the academic speaks out as if no one ever knew or was aware of unsafe buses, vans, and trucks, not to speak of motorcycle havoc and Tuk Tuk mayhem in Thailand. Thailand is a moving death trap.

Ok the manufacture of these vehicles is crap.

But when it comes down to the nitty gritty it is still mostly down to driver error.

Isn't toughened glass standard procedure. There should be a special little hammer positioned next to the window for breaking the glass in an emergency. In fact I have seen on a lot of buses the empty holder where these hammers should be. Guess they got nicked.

jb1

[Anon999]

Aloha

The few times, "I had" to travel by van or bus, I have found the seat-belts are, either wrapped around the seat in such a way, or not there, it becomes almost or impossible,

to undo and wear, It should be mandatory, all passengers wear their seat-belts, many deaths have been because of, un-belted passengers, of course speed, wreck-less,

immature driving, texting,talking, following to close, one hand driving, (if had a flat) could jerk steering wheel into oncoming or off the road, hung-over, not enough sleep or

a big lack of driving experience...

I ride shotgun in vans or I don't ride at all, I need to keep an eye on speedometer and driver, yes a locked, unbreakable, speed governor or a loud buzzer if exceeding the speed,

Camera on the driver might also make a difference for the better, can't get any worse!!!

You forgot glue sniffing.

[aussiebebe]

"The tour-bus operators will not hire you if you use an expensive foreign-made chassis," he explained.

This should be public knowledge, it would actually be insightful and interesting if it wasn't so scary. This needs to be put in the Lonely Planet guide so tourists know what they're getting themselves into. Or onto.

[Robi Schwab]

Just like you said, it IS my democratic right to MOVE to another forum. Yet it also IS my democratic right to REMAIN with this forum. Your comment is nonsense seeing I do NOT have any problem with this forum. I never ONCE criticised the forum, just the illogical comments passed on the forum. My comment related to this discussion was made due to the "unhappiness" with Thailand as a country of residence. So I merely asked why those "unhappy" individuals don't move to a happier country. I criticised NO one with my comment.

Many a comment has been entered here in great criticism against Thailand, Thai culture, Thai custom, Thai Government, Thai transport services and the corrupted Thai nation. Almost every single comment does in itself hold some truth and a lot of exaggeration. The most of these comments were passed by foreigners apparently residing in Thailand.

So now my question to all of these various commentators is this. If Thailand in the whole is now SO bad and corrupt, why do you all still prefer to reside in Thailand? I mean, why don't you just exercise you democratic human right and MOVE elsewhere?

After-all, there IS an entire planet earth out there where I'm sure you could find a place suiting your exact preferences, don't you think?

When reading your post my first impression was, how can someone be so ignorant.

A quick run through your previous 34 posts, pointed out that each and all were actually criticism on other posters.

So, I have a similar question to you, why not move to another forum as it is your democratic right.

[allalong]

Gentlemen and ladies...you are in a less developed country than that from which you came. Many of you came for the freedom which comes from that. Some came because of the less expensive lifestyle. There us a price to be paid unfortunately. If you want first world regulation and standards be prepared to pay the price. Machinery inspectors do not come cheaply nor do the myriads of public servants who create and enforce regulations. Be careful what you wish for.

where to start but what NONSENSE

How so?

its nothing to do with "money"for"inspectors" or "public servants" There are plenty of them to dothe job .Its the will to "enforce regulations" for travellers safety and ultimately their lives, but as has been pointed out many times.Money and profit linked to corruption comes before ANYTHING

[SparklingCascades]

Stupid, bloody stupid of any govt minister - in this case Chadchart Sittipunt to talk about GPS when the basics need enforcing first : chassis/axle in modified buses, seating capacity, height......GPS & helicopter pads atop the roofs of buses are stupid to talk about when people are dying from not having the very basics right. I despair of my country & its "leaders".

[DeepInTheForest]

We all know this. Big question is - where does this blatant disregard for people's safety and must make as much possible money at all costs mentality come from?

-------------------

It's called Capitalism ... Profit before People.

It's a western idea highly regarded in Thailand by international investors in Thailand.

Is your anti capitalism statement perhaps a reflection of the Largely Redundant Member? But more seriously there are a few that have posted on here and tagged this behaviour as Capitalism which, apart from being unrepresentative of capitalism, detracts from the real issues.Well, that is my opinion anyway.

You have stated your opinion, and I respect it, but in my view this is about as unrepresentative of capitalism as lying is unrepresentative of politicians.

[catweazle]

Found this topic a bit late, but; Wow, it needed an "expert" for the officials in charge to realize something that every "layperson" in Thailand already knows and fears for decades??? Sometimes I just sit and wonder...

On a daily basis I see "custom built" buses racing along the H4 where not even the axles are aligned - have seen buses that were off half a meter or more, thus basically driving in a permanent curve, with the driver having to counter steer all the time. They are build to heights that would dwarf even the Eiffel Tower. Such custom buses are prone to fail in narrow curves, when it rains, or when they have to break and steer around an obstacle (do Thai bus drivers ever do that?), but latest when the tyres are down to the mesh (common practice)... Not a question if those buses crash, just when. I even made a couple of photos and videos of such buses, but can't find em now when I need them (Murphy's Law). We had a few buses just tipping over up here in Phang-Nga plenty of times on those narrow curvy passages leading up and down the mountains.

I wonder how those buses even can get a full license and green book, where nowadays they transportation officers pi$$ down like crazy on every bike enthusuast that dares to build a custom chopper, applying for a green book... Not holding my breath hoping that the expert opinion and the burned-out bus story will change anything. People forget easy, whereas Thai officials must be taking some kind of "Forget this right now!! Booster Pills" when it comes to failures done by Thai operators or vehicle owners. That bus company owned to 49% by a foreigner with 51% owned by suspected nominees??? Be assured that all hell would break lose! They would rip that foreign director into pieces and then run one or two of their stupid crackdowns on "whoeverforeignerwebelievetodaytotakeourjobswomenandlandawayfromusuntouchableandnoblethaipeople". Well, at the end of the day it always comes down to, "This is Thailaeeeenn, if you no lie (like) you go home." Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, but still love this country (even though I sometimes wonder why ).

Edited July 27, 2013 by catweazle

[oldsailor35]

The truck jumped the lane and caused the head on collision, not the bus. So, why focusing the article about bus safety and not about concrete blocks to be implemented to avoid the same fate in case of future drivers falling asleep ?

Sooooooo i guess that you are saying that these busses are in fact quite safe and that everybody should shut up and stop raving about busses being unsafe as it is all a big farang lie ?

[oldsailor35]

The UK has Health & Safety Inspectors. They can enforce compliance with rules and regulations on the spot.

Thailand would be well advised to start their own H&S Inspectorate in the interests of their people.

As my ex used to say...........You no understand. Thai no need !

[paulchiangmai]

Same as the fact that they would stop minivans speeding hefty fines and such... has anyone seen that happen ? Words that is all there will be if there is no money in it for the government nothing will be done.

How can you say nothing will be done? I have lived here fifteen years and only last week saw the police nab a truck that went through a red light here in Chiang Mai. I think I can honestly say this is the first time I have seen a vehicle pulled over for a specific offence.

[Gsxrnz]

Same as the fact that they would stop minivans speeding hefty fines and such... has anyone seen that happen ? Words that is all there will be if there is no money in it for the government nothing will be done.

How can you say nothing will be done? I have lived here fifteen years and only last week saw the police nab a truck that went through a red light here in Chiang Mai. I think I can honestly say this is the first time I have seen a vehicle pulled over for a specific offence.

I've yet to see the police stop anybody for a specific offence. I thought I'd see it happen last week because I was behind a police (traffic) car in the middle lane near Laem Chabang doing 110klm/h. Limit was 90 but may have been 100, not sure. A Toyota Vigo fully loaded with about a dozen people in the back shot past us in the inside lane doing what seemed like close to 200klm/h. The BIB didn't do a thing.

About 3klm later I had to stop for a red light, still behind the cop. In the other lane was the Toyota. I thought they'd be bound to get a ticket. Nope....light turns green and the Toyota effs off like the driver is late for his own funeral and gets to supersonic speed in seconds - BIB dawdles away from the lights. Mai-bpen-rai.

[paulchiangmai]

A frequent sight is ten or more of these illegal buses speeding in close convoy in the overtaking lane with a police escort car leading in front! They bulldoze other vehicles out of the way to get their precious cargo of civil servants/boy scouts/ students to their destination a few minutes early.

Bull

In 7 years I have never seen it once much less frequently.

While I am talking to you I own this very profitable bridge in New York city I could let you have it cheap.

Spending usually close on four hours each school day on the road I frequently see exactly as PETERTHEEATER says. I find it very interesting when the leading police car catches a green light and then it changes to red and all buses follow through. I've got a spare pair of glasses should you need them hellodolly, which you clearly do.

[kannot]

So the moral is, if you build a buss that is unsafe, overload it, don't maintain it properly, and have it driven by untrained drivers.......<deleted> happens.

Nah its just if you make it a teency weency bit too high, no problem let some air out the tyres that'll fix it. no problem with the drivers, owners,maintenance or govt inspecting body etc etc

[kannot]

Same as the fact that they would stop minivans speeding hefty fines and such... has anyone seen that happen ? Words that is all there will be if there is no money in it for the government nothing will be done.

How can you say nothing will be done? I have lived here fifteen years and only last week saw the police nab a truck that went through a red light here in Chiang Mai. I think I can honestly say this is the first time I have seen a vehicle pulled over for a specific offence.

I've yet to see the police stop anybody for a specific offence. I thought I'd see it happen last week because I was behind a police (traffic) car in the middle lane near Laem Chabang doing 110klm/h. Limit was 90 but may have been 100, not sure. A Toyota Vigo fully loaded with about a dozen people in the back shot past us in the inside lane doing what seemed like close to 200klm/h. The BIB didn't do a thing.

About 3klm later I had to stop for a red light, still behind the cop. In the other lane was the Toyota. I thought they'd be bound to get a ticket. Nope....light turns green and the Toyota effs off like the driver is late for his own funeral and gets to supersonic speed in seconds - BIB dawdles away from the lights. Mai-bpen-rai.

I once had to swerve past a huge metal crate obviously dropped off the back a lorry, right in the middle of the road and watched the BIB also drive past it without stopping to remove it etc, incredible

[evadgib]

One for the "happens everywhere" brigade:)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-23478679

[Robi Schwab]

Stupid, bloody stupid of any govt minister - in this case Chadchart Sittipunt to talk about GPS when the basics need enforcing first : chassis/axle in modified buses, seating capacity, height......GPS & helicopter pads atop the roofs of buses are stupid to talk about when people are dying from not having the very basics right. I despair of my country & its "leaders".

Do you, SparklingCascades really think that your country and it's leaders are SO bad that they actually leaves you in total DESPAIR? Look, I DO agree with you here in everything you've said hey, because you've touched some very valid issues here okay. However, don't feel so isolated with regards to these issues. I promise you, as an outsider, a foreigner here in Thailand, I feel myself really victimized on a DAILY basis directly due to Thai customs. (Example; "Thai laws ONLY helps Thai people IN Thailand"). This was what a fairly high-up government official told me regarding a legal difficulty I experienced.

Nonetheless, I still prefer to reside right here in Thailand as I experience Thailand as a country, Thailand's government and Thais as people MUCH less problematic than anywhere else in this world, believe me. These few issues you've touched on here are NOTHING compared to the wheeling-and-dealing going on in the outside-of-Thailand world my friend. Corruption, violence, crime and murder really flourish out there. Ask me, I know because I come from there. So try to hang-in there friend, life's NOT easy anywhere in this world hey, not to even speak about fairness, moral decency and righteousness, or then the LACK thereof.

[Robi Schwab]

I've read all the comments passed on this issue about unsafe public transport here in Thailand, and I too posted my own one-or-two comments on this issue. However, whatever has been said hereabout thus far can NOT be argued okay. Every statement made here does bare some truth AND carries weight in this regard. But the ONE question that've been asked among all of this still stands OUT to me and thus far it remained unanswered.

"While everybody KNOWS for a FACT that buses and 16 seater taxi vans are a deathtrap here in Thailand why does people STILL keep-on using these services?".

I've pondered quite a bit on this question for I myself DO realize the dangers in this regard YET I've used this services in the past and are STILL using it to date. Luckily for me NOT to my detriment thus far. However all my contemplation around this led me to understand WHY people still use these services. For myself, I actually NEED to use the service on visa runs as I cannot afford to travel such long distances on my own transport. (Fuel prices and all the rest).

So yea, maybe there's your answer to your question. Everybody uses these services because they've got absolute NO other choice.

[MikeOboe57]

A frequent sight is ten or more of these illegal buses speeding in close convoy in the overtaking lane with a police escort car leading in front! They bulldoze other vehicles out of the way to get their precious cargo of civil servants/boy scouts/ students to their destination a few minutes early.

Bull

In 7 years I have never seen it once much less frequently.

While I am talking to you I own this very profitable bridge in New York city I could let you have it cheap.

Spending usually close on four hours each school day on the road I frequently see exactly as PETERTHEEATER says. I find it very interesting when the leading police car catches a green light and then it changes to red and all buses follow through. I've got a spare pair of glasses should you need them hellodolly, which you clearly do.

I saw them a couple of times on the Barommaratchachonnanee Rd eastbound near Central Pinklao. It seems you can buy the service of the RTP if you have to get across Bangkok with a couple of coaches a little faster than usual. The buses also drive very aggressively to discourage anyone trying to sneak into their convoy and benefit from it without paying.