Old Farming Ideas

[Farma]

I was looking at a thread on heirloom seeds and it brought back memories of bullock heart and beefsteak tomatoes growing in the garden patch. It also brought back memories of some of the old farmer ideas on ways to improve crops etc.

I thought it would be interesting to hear what others remember from the old days.

To start off.

My grandfather would store his watermelon seeds in sugar between plantings. He claimed they produced sweeter melons the next season.

He would save up cows horns, then stuff them with cow manure. I think it was on full moons he would lay them in a trench and cover them with dirt. The next moon he would dig them up, empty the horns, turn it into a slurry and fertilise the farm.

Another interesting idea was to auger a deep hole where he wanted to plant fruit trees. Cow manure was packed in most of the hole topped with about a foot of dirt with the new tree planted on top. Theory being by the time the trees roots reached the manure it had lost its heat. It provided a natural supercharger for the trees growth.

Over to you guys......

[kickstart]

When I use to garden in the uk my neighbour use to say and do before planting out cabbage and cauliflower's dibbal a hole ,put a pice of rubabarb in the hole ,then plant the plant, he says it helps prevent club root.

How it works ,if it did,must be the acid from the rubarb,does somthing to the soil,or the club root spore's.

Yours Regs.

KS

[Iamemjay]

The cow horn thing is an integral part of what is called biodynamics these days. Personally I have difficulty accepting it but its adherents are very passionate and swear it transforms whole farms!.

The manure under (or outside) the fruit tree holes is still practised today - and it works!

[DonaldBattles]

Growing western varieties of tomatoes in Thailand is very difficult to next to impossible. From some reason the soil and climate here do not support tomatoes like Beef Stake and others. The soil is load with fungi. Unless you can prepare the soil ahead of time with some type of copper oxide to clean it of fungus then it is going be disappointing. I am going to try again this year. A few years ago I built a steam generator in Chiang Rai to sterilize the soil and it worked well. The labor and fuel cost were high. Now it is next to impossible to buy fired soil because of the cost. Kind of like the problem of kiln drying wood in Thailand. Further to fungus, the small spider mites getting on the back side of leaves of vegetables is a big problem that requires frequent spraying.

[Iamemjay]

Growing western varieties of tomatoes in Thailand is very difficult to next to impossible. From some reason the soil and climate here do not support tomatoes like Beef Stake and others. The soil is load with fungi. Unless you can prepare the soil ahead of time with some type of copper oxide to clean it of fungus then it is going be disappointing. I am going to try again this year. A few years ago I built a steam generator in Chiang Rai to sterilize the soil and it worked well. The labor and fuel cost were high. Now it is next to impossible to buy fired soil because of the cost. Kind of like the problem of kiln drying wood in Thailand. Further to fungus, the small spider mites getting on the back side of leaves of vegetables is a big problem that requires frequent spraying.

I have been growing large western varieties quite successfully here in Fang, (Chiangmai province) for some years. Likewise, other organic growers (such as the hilltribe people in the Royal Project North of Chiangdaow) also have large varieties available at various times of the year.

But there are differences. Firstly I have had most success in the early and cooler stages of the dry season - I usually plant in October. Secondly, moisture control is essential to prevent leaf diseases. Some of the Thai organic farmers that I know use a "roof" of clear plastic about 2 to 3 metres above ground to assist with this - it helps control watering and also filters some of the sun's harmful rays.

Despite what all the "experts" say, it is best to grow them in part shade here - mine have shade in the mornings and from mid-afternoon. For further protection from sun damage, I cover the clusters of fruit immediately after flowering, with small squares of cotton fabric - also helps prevent fruit flies which always sting the tops of the fruit.

To prevent soil carried diseases such as you mentioned, crop rotation is an ABSOLUTE. Make sure you grow soil cleansing crops in between uses of plots for tomatoes.

To make life easier, and if you don't mind having medium sized, rather than large, tomatoes choose DRV (Disease Resistant) varieties suited to hot and humid conditions. I buy mine from online seed suppliers in the US (Baker Creek) or Australia (Eden) who clearly designate DRV's.

Best of luck!

[DonaldBattles]

This was a good report on growing tomatoes. I wonder if you could use clear plastic bags over the fruit instead of cotton. I know that fruit flies are a big problem. I have rebuilt my greenhouse this year and I can keep most of the fruit flies out with fine mesh plastic around the sides. I have several varieties that I will try including the DRV. I will start the potting in flats around Sept. 1 so by Oct. 15 they should be big enough to put the ground at about 4-5 inches in height.

Previously in the USA I grew tomatoes that were 8 feet tall using wire cages to support them. This was done with all chicken manure and lots of water. I agree some shade should help reduce blistering a bit. Don't think I can ever do that here.

[jphantom]

Good tomato discussion.

Is it necessary to have insect protection on the sides of your greenhouse canopy?

thanks

[DonaldBattles]

If you wish to keep the fruit flies and other out it is necessary. However, you can put clear plastic on the sides and tops like most people do. For me it gets way too hot without the screens and I would need to install a big fan.

[jphantom]

You do your food business in Bangkok, Phuket, Chiang Rai, Kung Ming, etc, but not Chiang Mai........ interesting.

Since I live in Chiang Mai, I wonder what I am missing....... just curious. Maybe I should visit you in Chiang Mai

Cheers

[DonaldBattles]

I have dramatically reduced the amount of business that I do because of my age. I am not half the man I used to be. Currently I am doing a limited amount of agriculture and aquaculture business in Chiang Rai only. I love vegetable farming. For years I grew Mexican peppers in Chiang Rai and Kunming China. Insects, fungus and heat are working against us in Chiang Rai even at 400 meters altitude. Very little vegetables consumed in Chiang Rai are grown here, most come from Chiang Mai. Chiang Mai has the market and local farmers have great difficulty breaking into the well established Bangkok Market. Much of my work farming work is found in a book I wrote and published internationally called Merchant Of The Orient, An Entrepreneur's Journey In Life. Available at 2500 different international outlets in printed and E-Book. It is worth reading. I wrote the book to pass along information and do not expect to make any money from it. It is 304 pages long. It starts in 1940 and finishes in April of 2013. Hoping to have a book launch party in Chiang Mai in Oct. and we can talk about farming in Chiang Rai especially greenhouse farming.

[newatthis]

Very interesting topic.

I live in Ayutthaya and have tried unsuccessfully for the last 2 years to grow the larger type tomatoes here. Fermented the seed from organic tomatoes I bought at Lotus; they flowered but never fruited. I think heat stress might have been the problem.

I will try again this year but will plant earlier [from I've read in the previous posts here] just after the rainy season finishes.

So I have a couple of questions:

a) Has anyone successfully grown tomatoes outside in very large pots. It might be easier for me to regulate the sunlight.

Can you buy the beefsteak tomato seeds in Thailand? I've only seen the cherry type around here. Also jalapeno seeds?

c) What fertilizer would you use in pots?

Thanks

[NeverSure]

Even in better tomato climates, you need to clean up all debris after harvest or the various fungi will survive. You need to rotate and plant only every 3 or 4 years in the same spot. You need to bottom water so the plant doesn't get wet, and the plants must be far enough apart so they don't touch each other.

I'm not sure that heat is the problem as much as humidity which encourages the various fungi. After all, tomatoes are grown in Mexico and S. America. They are staples there.

Just a hunch??

[DonaldBattles]

I think you are correct. If the plants were root fed with fertilizer and water they should develop better. This might also discourage the fungus issues. I am going to try everything possible this year to try to get the imported seeds to produce. I think that they could be grown with hydroponics but the investment for your family needs is too much.

[DonaldBattles]

Jalapeno Pepper and Beefsteak tomato seeds not sold in Thailand. Easy enough to order from overseas. To my knowledge, Beefsteak tomatoes are not nematode resistant.

[jphantom]

Look forward to reading Merchant of the Orient....... Keep me on your list for October.

Cheers

[rice555]

Hello All, there is a number of threads on TV on tom's and chilies.

If you run a forum search for "growing tomatoes" you'll get some

interesting links, also info on what tom's grow in LOS without the

heart break. Just go to the top of the farming forum page and search

the OG section, some nice pic/info from Surin.

To be fair to other posters on this thread, there is THE O/P Beefstake

tom, there is also a class of beef/beefstake tomato, usual Hyb.

You can buy seed for them in CM, they also sale their tom's at

The Mall and other up scale stores, Take Me Home Brand search

should bring up their www. or D.A.L.T. I don't know what the smallest

seed packet size is(500-1000).

You can also order Jal seeds in BKK, through a Co., their was some

info on this on one of the Hydro threads posted by "thescott".

The only problem is the smallest order they'll make is EU6,000.

Clause (Thailand) Company Limited

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rice555