Thai opposition MPs in parliament brawl with police

[Reasoner]

Wait a minute.... The article specifically explains that the speaker intended to continue or begin debate on the matters but only if the opposition would sit down and follow the rules standard for human debate. That means sitting down an waiting your turn to voice your opinion, not standing up and yelling or booing. It sounds to me like they were the ones who wanted to obstruct the debate. If it was so important to them and their cause was just then why yell out and stand around and obstruct. they should have sat down when the speaker said to, then when he stopped the debate after they followed the rules of parliamentary debate, everyone would have seen the corruption you all speak of. You people should pay attention to the facts of the article.

Good luck.

If you have another article with the events as you described, please share a link, because there is nothing in the article that corresponds with your "facts".

"Scuffles broke out after 57 members of the opposition Democrat party stood up simultaneously to voice their objections to the plans and refused to be silenced by the Speaker."

It is clear leading into the story that the problems started AFTER the 57 members of one side stood up in protest. It later infers an attempt/s by the speaker to continue the debate under the prescribed rules of debate ONLY if the protesters would sit down and follow the rules of representation.

And no, I do not think there was a clear corruption in the process by the speaker.

He has majority, yes, but everything seems normal in this case especially the reaction of the opposition to open talks on sensitive matters. The only thing abnormal is the commentary because it is emotional and misguided therefore ineffective. Thailand needs solutions, not fuel for the fire.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Reasoner

[britinthai]

Well what a surprise, another onslaught of posters rabbling on about Reds v yellows. Parliament is a place where adults were elected by the people to act as professionals, where they must conduct themselves with the upmost composure and abide by the rules of Parliament. I do believe when MP's enter Parliament every MP fully understand the rules and know very well, when and when not to speak; there must be order. The opposition has the right to lobby but they do not have the right to simply stand up and shout out of turn and cause mayhem. The speaker was elected and has the authority to remove any MP that does not conduct him/her self in a manner that is required; it is good that the speaker has the command of the current police to enforce the rules. I recall back when the yellows took over the airport the government had no control over the police, so at least there is some positive sign of support for the current government by the police. Thailand has a democratic system where the people voted to have their famed ruler back; this is the whole point even for the yellows, but of course in a different context. Let him come back, bring in a third party of judges and have a new set of court cases - as by most posters on this forum they openly write that the Thai legal system has no integrity whatsoever. Following a new court case; if found guilty then they have him here ready to serve whatever sentence is imposed.

[Baerboxer]

Television images showed politicians surrounded by police and grappling with them as they were marched towards the exit of the chamber, while screams were heard in the background

Nipit, who said there were some 100 police in parliament at the time

Ah democracy and free speech in action, why 100 police in parliament chamber at the time.....Yingluks stormtrooper in action

Why do I have a sad feeling Thailand headed towards another round of violence in the streets

I am not sure you are right.

I have just spoken to a couple of "hard core" democrats and they admit it's all over. They say this government already has complete control over the police and military and that all demonstrations will be stopped at the start as we have already seen.

The only thing to do is wait/. "Wait 20 or more years until the country has been raped and destroyed" - their own words..

I hope they are wrong but I certainly don't want to see violence and bloodshed again. I think we are in ffor some dark times one way or another.

Unfortunately I have to agree the PTP is in control now. But I don't think they are going to have the power they enjoy now after the next election.

Hard to believe it but there are some red shirts who no longer worship at the feet of Thaksin. How many elections have they lost in previous red shirt strong districts, Look at the red dummy shirts in Yaiothon trying to disrupt the Democrat rally. There were some there who refused to partake in the disruption.

I definatly do not want to see more blood shed. But some times it can lead to changes. Not saying they are good or bad but look at the changes that were made by just crucifying one guy.

They certainly appear to believe they are in control - flexing their muscles and pushing the limits. Openly controlled from outside and openly running to offshore meetings for instructions. All anti-democratic whilst putting out farcical propoganda.

Do you really think they'll be another election................ ever? Or maybe like the ones in Zimbabwe or they used to have in the Soviet Bloc?

[klauskunkel]

"Anyone failing to move [the standing parliamentarians] out must face a probe," he warned the officers

What kind of probe??? I am highly suspicious of probing! But not the kind of probe UFO Aliens use on humans?! They surely wouldn't stoop that low, would they?? On the other hand...

[tingtongteesood]

So the PT clowns have 100 PT loyal police standing guard IN PARLIAMENT and if any of the 'opposition' dare to 'oppose' them then they will have them forcibly removed !? <deleted> is that about !? The iron fist of Taksin is closing upon the kingdom as we speak.....!!!!!

[Baerboxer]

Well what a surprise, another onslaught of posters rabbling on about Reds v yellows. Parliament is a place where adults were elected by the people to act as professionals, where they must conduct themselves with the upmost composure and abide by the rules of Parliament. I do believe when MP's enter Parliament every MP fully understand the rules and know very well, when and when not to speak; there must be order. The opposition has the right to lobby but they do not have the right to simply stand up and shout out of turn and cause mayhem. The speaker was elected and has the authority to remove any MP that does not conduct him/her self in a manner that is required; it is good that the speaker has the command of the current police to enforce the rules. I recall back when the yellows took over the airport the government had no control over the police, so at least there is some positive sign of support for the current government by the police. Thailand has a democratic system where the people voted to have their famed ruler back; this is the whole point even for the yellows, but of course in a different context. Let him come back, bring in a third party of judges and have a new set of court cases - as by most posters on this forum they openly write that the Thai legal system has no integrity whatsoever. Following a new court case; if found guilty then they have him here ready to serve whatever sentence is imposed.

Must have missed that election - the one where a majority of people actually voted to have their "famed ruler back". Indeed an interesting choice of words you use.

Tarit thinks the PM/DM is Head of State and you think a convicted criminal fugitive who faces more serious outstanding charges should he return without a whitewash to be "a famed ruler", Or should that be infamous PM?

[northernjohn]

Wait a minute.... The article specifically explains that the speaker intended to continue or begin debate on the matters but only if the opposition would sit down and follow the rules standard for human debate. That means sitting down an waiting your turn to voice your opinion, not standing up and yelling or booing. It sounds to me like they were the ones who wanted to obstruct the debate. If it was so important to them and their cause was just then why yell out and stand around and obstruct. they should have sat down when the speaker said to, then when he stopped the debate after they followed the rules of parliamentary debate, everyone would have seen the corruption you all speak of. You people should pay attention to the facts of the article.

Good luck.

Just out of curiosity was there any Democrats on his list of debaters?

If so how many and in what position where they in?

I ask you because you seem to have inside information.

[Thait Spot]

Wait a minute.... The article specifically explains that the speaker intended to continue or begin debate on the matters but only if the opposition would sit down and follow the rules standard for human debate. That means sitting down an waiting your turn to voice your opinion, not standing up and yelling or booing. It sounds to me like they were the ones who wanted to obstruct the debate. If it was so important to them and their cause was just then why yell out and stand around and obstruct. they should have sat down when the speaker said to, then when he stopped the debate after they followed the rules of parliamentary debate, everyone would have seen the corruption you all speak of. You people should pay attention to the facts of the article.

Good luck.

If you have another article with the events as you described, please share a link, because there is nothing in the article that corresponds with your "facts".

"Scuffles broke out after 57 members of the opposition Democrat party stood up simultaneously to voice their objections to the plans and refused to be silenced by the Speaker."

It is clear leading into the story that the problems started AFTER the 57 members of one side stood up in protest. It later infers an attempt/s by the speaker to continue the debate under the prescribed rules of debate ONLY if the protesters would sit down and follow the rules of representation.

And no, I do not think there was a clear corruption in the process by the speaker.

He has majority, yes, but everything seems normal in this case especially the reaction of the opposition to open talks on sensitive matters. The only thing abnormal is the commentary because it is emotional and misguided therefore ineffective. Thailand needs solutions, not fuel for the fire.

I've always felt that using selected facts is just as bad a lying through your teeth

[Lite Beer]

A post speculating on the future of the Monarchy has been removed as per forum rules.

[northernjohn]

Interesting. The article states: "opposition MPs were angry at being denied time to speak about the proposals, which would change the senate to a fully elected body. The plans are part of a contentious bid to amend a constitution written in the wake of a 2006 military coup...". A photo of the event shows an opposition MP with his hand around the throat of a police officer. Yet people here are branding the PTP as undemocratic and dangerous. I can easily imagine what these same people would be saying if it were a PTP or Red-Shirt with his hands around the police officer's throat...

Well this is a very important issue.

In the interest of fairness

Are you saying that the Democrats should not have resisted being thrown out of the Parliment session so that only PTP and their supporters could discuss the changes to the Constitution.

Edited August 21, 2013 by northernjohn

[thhMan]

Incidents like this would explain why the Government wants/needs access to social networks, so Thailands dirty laundry can be contained in Thailand and not expose Thailand as the corrupt/idiotic and unreasonable society it really is to the rest of the world.

Are they so short tempered, brainless and illogical that they cannot see the damage they cause to this great country?

[animatic]

There was more logical debate on The Muppet Show years ago...

...Therefore, we can't expect the youth of Thailand to show much interest in the future of their country either until it affects them badly in the pocket. It is an economic crash like we had in 1997 that will hopefully force people to take more interest in their country's future.

Sadly the economic crash brought on the rise of Thaksin,

who clearly profited from insider knowledge of the crash being about to touch off.

The first of several precursors of this current farce of a Thaksin-puppet government,

came after the Democrats made the hard choices post 1997, to pull the country out of the abyss.

But policies that work in an upswing,

will fail utterly in a down turn and in a recession it can be devastating.

And still people can be made to believe Thaksin's good fortune at riding a

regional upswing from the ashes of '97 was somehow his masterful work.

When really the debacle of 1997 he partly set off being a seat or so behind Chavalit

in the government that lit the matches one hand and poured the gas about with the other.

So we have essentially the same lords and masters trying to foist

unworkable economic legerdemain on the Thai people as if it were boom times

and their every move has been proved golden, and of course NEVER let anyone,

go on record disputing your choices so they can say later : we told you so.

Of course the 'concept of a fully elected Senate on face value seems laudable.

But in reality of the Thailand political machines, opposing it is to prevent a fully PURCHASED Senate.

Edited August 21, 2013 by animatic

[animatic]

Wait a minute.... The article specifically explains that the speaker intended to continue or begin debate on the matters but only if the opposition would sit down and follow the rules standard for human debate. That means sitting down an waiting your turn to voice your opinion, not standing up and yelling or booing. It sounds to me like they were the ones who wanted to obstruct the debate. If it was so important to them and their cause was just then why yell out and stand around and obstruct. they should have sat down when the speaker said to, then when he stopped the debate after they followed the rules of parliamentary debate, everyone would have seen the corruption you all speak of. You people should pay attention to the facts of the article.

Good luck.

If you have another article with the events as you described, please share a link, because there is nothing in the article that corresponds with your "facts".

"Scuffles broke out after 57 members of the opposition Democrat party stood up simultaneously to voice their objections to the plans and refused to be silenced by the Speaker."

It is clear leading into the story that the problems started AFTER the 57 members of one side stood up in protest. It later infers an attempt/s by the speaker to continue the debate under the prescribed rules of debate ONLY if the protesters would sit down and follow the rules of representation.

And no, I do not think there was a clear corruption in the process by the speaker.

He has majority, yes, but everything seems normal in this case especially the reaction of the opposition to open talks on sensitive matters. The only thing abnormal is the commentary because it is emotional and misguided therefore ineffective. Thailand needs solutions, not fuel for the fire.

I've always felt that using selected facts is just as bad a lying through your teeth

They stood up in protest BECAUSE the biased House Speaker was

intentionally silencing them and not giving them their rights to go on record in opposition.

They stood up against one more example of tyranny by the biased speaker.

They have the votes to pass things, but what they fear is logical arguments against going on record forever.

Because that can later come back to bite them on the . . .

Edited August 21, 2013 by animatic

[chuang]

So these are the clowns who want to form the government...

[northernjohn]

I don't condone physical fighting in parliament. I believe both sides are at fault.

I also don't condone how certain 'gentlemen' on this forum use news events, like this, to make dire predictions about the future of Thailand. And then, these predictions are discussed as a foregone conclusion.

It seems that almost every news event is interpreted as a battle between good and evil. One side wears 'rose-tinted' glasses and the other wears 'Hitler-tinted' glasses. And there will be shame and damnation for anyone who dares to question their tinted version of reality (or the future).

Yet, both sides seem to agree that (Thai TV, newspaper, etc.) reporting for almost every news event is suspect at best. In fact, there seems to be a direct correlation between poorly reported news events and over-the-top fanaticism on a thread…

------------------------------------------------------

disclaimer (fine print)

Yes, I live in Thailand

Yes, I've studied Thai history

Yes, I've studied world history

I don't have a favorite color/colour

I don't wear tinted glasses

I won't drink your 'kool-aid'

Well I am guilty quite often of following the rose tinted glasses. I have a real problem with dictatorship's. It dosen't mean that it is all Hitler style.

What you say does hold some truth in it. Especialy when we have to consider the source of the news. We all know that The Nation is very often writing some thing to sell their news paper. The facts are irrelavent to them. Also other news sources have their short comings but this is the one Thai Visa chooses to rely on mostly.

It is indeed unfortunate that we do not have enough people here who can read and understand Thai to give us the information the Thais are getting.

The PTP relyes on fear. I live in Chiang Mai and the wife hates the Shinawatra's but is afraid to talk about it to any one here. I suspect she is not alone here.

Please excuse my spelling errors my spell checker is onn a vacation.

[EyesWideOpen]

Someone once said that people get EXACTLY the government they deserve, no more no less. It would appear

the Thai people are about to get a graphic lesson in this concept. I know in Thailand the link between

action and consequences is poorly understood, but hopefully in the future the red buffaloes who got their

500 baht for voting in Thaksin puppets will feel a sense of betrayal and sadness.

And as one poster noted, the red supporters on TV have become awfully quiet as the country marches towards

a dictatorship. 100 police at a parliament meeting ?? Guess the people in power knew trouble was coming.

Wonder what the police forces are at a meeting of Congress in America . Two sleepy security guards ??

[johnnie20110]

Wait a minute.... The article specifically explains that the speaker intended to continue or begin debate on the matters but only if the opposition would sit down and follow the rules standard for human debate. That means sitting down an waiting your turn to voice your opinion, not standing up and yelling or booing. It sounds to me like they were the ones who wanted to obstruct the debate. If it was so important to them and their cause was just then why yell out and stand around and obstruct. they should have sat down when the speaker said to, then when he stopped the debate after they followed the rules of parliamentary debate, everyone would have seen the corruption you all speak of. You people should pay attention to the facts of the article.

Good luck.

If you have another article with the events as you described, please share a link, because there is nothing in the article that corresponds with your "facts".

"Scuffles broke out after 57 members of the opposition Democrat party stood up simultaneously to voice their objections to the plans and refused to be silenced by the Speaker."

It is clear

So you don't have any additional news link that corresponds with your version of these events.

Thanks anyway.

[ppmacready]

Television images showed politicians surrounded by police and grappling with them as they were marched towards the exit of the chamber, while screams were heard in the background

Nipit, who said there were some 100 police in parliament at the time

Ah democracy and free speech in action, why 100 police in parliament chamber at the time.....Yingluks stormtrooper in action

Why do I have a sad feeling Thailand headed towards another round of violence in the streets

Thai spring coming!

[EyesWideOpen]

Television images showed politicians surrounded by police and grappling with them as they were marched towards the exit of the chamber, while screams were heard in the background

Nipit, who said there were some 100 police in parliament at the time

Ah democracy and free speech in action, why 100 police in parliament chamber at the time.....Yingluks stormtrooper in action

Why do I have a sad feeling Thailand headed towards another round of violence in the streets

Thai spring coming!

One can only hope......But I think in general Thai people are too passive to do something to stop the march

to dictatorship. The sabai sabai attitude which permeates Thai culture usually works pretty well, except when

it comes to forcing governmental change...

[thaicbr]

Wait a minute.... The article specifically explains that the speaker intended to continue or begin debate on the matters but only if the opposition would sit down and follow the rules standard for human debate. That means sitting down an waiting your turn to voice your opinion, not standing up and yelling or booing. It sounds to me like they were the ones who wanted to obstruct the debate. If it was so important to them and their cause was just then why yell out and stand around and obstruct. they should have sat down when the speaker said to, then when he stopped the debate after they followed the rules of parliamentary debate, everyone would have seen the corruption you all speak of. You people should pay attention to the facts of the article.

Good luck.

This is not the first time that speaker Somsak has used this tactic. It is fairly normal. But when you consider that all the Mp's had agreed a timeframe and number of speakers at the beginning of the debate and then to hear ALL the Phua Thai ones but only 6 of the Democrates..... before Somsak decided that it was over. Par for the course. Do you consider it Democratic to stifle debate and stop elected Mp's from doing their duty... The Dem's were elected as well, you know.

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[newermonkey]

A wonderful display of democracy Red Shirt Style ,The police are called in to remove dissenting elected opposition party members who were protesting in a place of priviliege.

A parliament worthy of nothing a government that is no more than a blatant puppet dictatorship who are openly flaunting their power.

Come on Emma Thompson and all you paid for bling bling guests look at the democratic process under this current government who want you to be involved in a reconciliation programme debate, if you had a shred of honour and decency you should not come here to Thailand and assist in the euthanasia of democracy.

Indeed a fine example of a ''reconciliation process.''

Great shame the police could not hold another politician in the past who was a convicted felon indeed the zealous efforts at law keeping then were very low key were they not?

Great shame the police could not WOULD NOT hold another politician in the past who was a convicted felon indeed the zealous efforts at law keeping then were very low key were they not?

[Roadman]

Possibly the headline should read "Police brawl with MP;s"

It would seem the police were reluctant to throw the Dem MP"s out and the speaker actually threatened them.

RT@tulsathit: Turmoil erupting in Parliament during charter amendment debate. Somsak calling parliamenary police to escort boo boys out

RT@tulsathit: Police have been ordered by House speaker Somsk to take out any Democrat who refuses to sit down.

RT@tulsathit: "If you don't take them out, you'll be charged with insubordination," Somsak yelled at parliamentary police.

RT@tulsathit: Parliamentary meeting has been declared halted by Somsak. 10 minutes, of course.

RT@tulsathit: Trouble blew up after House speaker called vote to disallow further debate on proposed amendments.

So it would seem that the speaker decided he didn't want to hear any more debate.

As in, we have the numbers, we can do what we want so just shut up and sit down.

Why is it that reading the transcript of those tweets especially a Pheu Thai speaker threatening the police with insubordination for not doing his bidding that it does not surprise anymore where Thailand is well on a course to. The Shinawatra police state is being cemented in.

[Roadman]

The writing is on the wall and I am unsure what can be done. The PTP have taken over like a cancer and regardless of the medication this country now takes, they wont get rid of the cancer. In the west, the media and the people would string this lot up, it would be a relentless barrage of opposition from the public, but here, the Thai's just accept. They accept for a number of reasons, one is that they are genuinely scared of intimidation, arrest and extra judicial killing...people just disappear. Look at how the Government and the Police have intimidated the population with the scare tactics over the use of social media. The arrest any TV and News journalist for saying the slightest thing out of place, and the PM sues her critics.

I truly hope when this is all done and dusted and PTP have a vice like grip over this country, it's people and it's resources that the red supporters and apologists on Thai Visa have the balls to admit, even if only to themselves, that they endorsed and supported a dynasty of criminals to establish a communist regime in which they are the dynastic rulers of a one party police state. It makes me sick to the stomach to think that allegedly educated westerners could offer the remotest support to these people.

Tony Bliar and Emma Thompson, beware, you too are being used to lend these criminals a sense of advocacy. The PTP are waiting for that fateful day that we all know is coming, and during the mass grieving that will be witnessed on a scale the modern world has never seen, the fox will return and destroy his enemies while they sleep.

Bump...well said.

[rijb]

More Kool-Aid please!

[iancnx]

Can anyone confirm has the annual change in military appointments been promulgated yet. If not it must be due anytime..... Usually effective September. If they have been announced what are the changes?

[dickyknee]

I find it ironic that the speaker tried to eject MPs given the context of the debate.

[northernjohn]

Someone once said that people get EXACTLY the government they deserve, no more no less. It would appear

the Thai people are about to get a graphic lesson in this concept. I know in Thailand the link between

action and consequences is poorly understood, but hopefully in the future the red buffaloes who got their

500 baht for voting in Thaksin puppets will feel a sense of betrayal and sadness.

And as one poster noted, the red supporters on TV have become awfully quiet as the country marches towards

a dictatorship. 100 police at a parliament meeting ?? Guess the people in power knew trouble was coming.

Wonder what the police forces are at a meeting of Congress in America . Two sleepy security guards ??

Once again false information.

%52 did not want this government.

the PTP got only %48 of the vote.

Much paid for as was in the other parties.

How ever of the %48 who did vote PTP I would wager a good percentage thought they were getting Yingluck. More than likley less than half but still a small minority that voted for what they got.

Thaksin.

[GentlemanJim]

I don't condone physical fighting in parliament. I believe both sides are at fault.

I also don't condone how certain 'gentlemen' on this forum use news events, like this, to make dire predictions about the future of Thailand. And then, these predictions are discussed as a foregone conclusion.

It seems that almost every news event is interpreted as a battle between good and evil. One side wears 'rose-tinted' glasses and the other wears 'Hitler-tinted' glasses. And there will be shame and damnation for anyone who dares to question their tinted version of reality (or the future).

Yet, both sides seem to agree that (Thai TV, newspaper, etc.) reporting for almost every news event is suspect at best. In fact, there seems to be a direct correlation between poorly reported news events and over-the-top fanaticism on a thread…

------------------------------------------------------

disclaimer (fine print)

Yes, I live in Thailand

Yes, I've studied Thai history

Yes, I've studied world history

I don't have a favorite color/colour

I don't wear tinted glasses

I won't drink your 'kool-aid'

Frankly rijb I don't give a hoot what you do or do not 'condone', particularly about what I write. If I genuinely believe that a dark and dire scenario exists for this country, I have every right to put those thoughts in to words and press 'send'. You now sound like the worst of the reds and PTP, coming out with some subtle argument as to how peoples words should be censored if they conflict with your own biased view of the world. Keep your censorship to yourself, there is enough of it going on that is instigated by the Government without you pitching in and adding your own. If you dont like what you read, either do not continue reading or raise a counter argument as to the statements validity, but do not censor other members here on TV.

[rijb]

Your countless 'evil will come' diatribes used to be comical. Now, they're just tiresome.

No more Kool-Aid, please!

[smutcakes]

Someone once said that people get EXACTLY the government they deserve, no more no less. It would appear

the Thai people are about to get a graphic lesson in this concept. I know in Thailand the link between

action and consequences is poorly understood, but hopefully in the future the red buffaloes who got their

500 baht for voting in Thaksin puppets will feel a sense of betrayal and sadness.

And as one poster noted, the red supporters on TV have become awfully quiet as the country marches towards

a dictatorship. 100 police at a parliament meeting ?? Guess the people in power knew trouble was coming.

Wonder what the police forces are at a meeting of Congress in America . Two sleepy security guards ??

Once again false information.

%52 did not want this government.

the PTP got only %48 of the vote.

Much paid for as was in the other parties.

How ever of the %48 who did vote PTP I would wager a good percentage thought they were getting Yingluck. More than likley less than half but still a small minority that voted for what they got.

Thaksin.

Yeah of course they didn;t know, every single one of those took 500 baht to vote and if they had been reading Thai visa they would know that RED SHIRTS= Thaksin!anyway 48% is a pretty large number. In Thai politics, rather than needing majorities, it is down to plurality and 48% is a huge amount only 2% away from an absolute majority.