birdbirdbat Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 I just heard a rumor and it was backup by reading a Thai newspaper. 2 Farangs girls were brutally gang raped by 8 Thai construction workers on a beach on one of my favorite southern Islands -Ko Lanta-. Why dose this kinda news not make it in the Bangkok Post or The Nation? Do they not want us farang to know this stuff? Does it not matter cause it was a rape? What are other peoples views on this matter? I must say I am very distressed and even more upset that it appears that someone ( or is it everyone ?) is trying to sweep this kind of news under the carpet. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Moog Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Since the established papers won't print it, it would be interesting to have a 'Thai newspapers' section here. There must be a fluent Thai reader who could monotor the local tabloids - it would probably be quite a unique forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 When my good woman finds anything in the local press involving farangs she always fills me in on the story. I would guess that even in the Thai press most stories involving farang would go unreported but even then it's very obvious that the English language press nowadays seems to completely stay away from nasty things that happen to foreigners here. Must be a govt directive wouldn't you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Mist Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 toxin does have a slight influence 555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrentoul Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 2 Farangs girls were brutally gang raped by 8 Thai construction workers on a beach on one of my favorite southern Islands -Ko Lanta-. Takes the English-language papers a day or so to catch up sometimes. Give them time, and they might run it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 In your dreams Mike. One can hold out hope, but I don't hold my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf5370 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 We have all seen recently what happens when English language papers print things that the government does not approve of: Someone gets sacked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidm Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 It's the old Chinese problem of face. Admitting something bad has happened to foreigners in Thailand is considered a loss of face. Also it's bad for business. You may notice whenever Thailand is heavily criticised for something, the response for leading figures in Thai society is that the country has to improve its image or the ability to get its view across. Almost never does someone say there's a fault and we have to change what we do. On a more positive note, that horrific gang rape is an extremely rare crime as far as tourists are concerned and local authorities crack down swift and hard when they are sure it has happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaichang1 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Birdbirdbait, you ask Why dose this kinda news not make it in the Bangkok Post or The Nation? Birdbirdbait please give me a link to a foreign newspaper (outside from LOS) who write about the story with the 2 farang girls. Thanks and Think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Birdbirdbait,you ask Why dose this kinda news not make it in the Bangkok Post or The Nation? Birdbirdbait please give me a link to a foreign newspaper (outside from LOS) who write about the story with the 2 farang girls. Thanks and Think Actually thaichang was canned for his appalling English Grammar. His spelling was left to prove antecedents. The fact that he is too thoughtless to understand that his friends actions will be read by people all over the world, including perhaps, the families of the victims, is a given. Enough said. I agree with DavidM. The Thai authorities will find the disgusting little efforts that were responsible and deal with them fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NedKelly Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 In my opinion, it is a worry tha stuff like this goes unreported. In my line of work I am asked often by overseas agents about the safety and other conditions of various places. It makes me look pretty stupid if I tell them, 'yeah it's completely safe, nothings ever happenned down there.' Why dont the authorities (whoever the are) take a more positive stance on this.....we know what cover ups do Mr Taksin.......they destroy the chicken industry. This incident could have been reported and the opportunity made to show how the situation was dealt with by police and the community. Instead, the victims wiil leave these shores with an extremely bitter resentment that everything was hushed over. The possible ramifications of this scenario extend to political levels. It should have been nipped in the bud right away. If t is true then Thailand will only get negative pubilicity again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowleopard Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 On a more positive note, that horrific gang rape is an extremely rare crime as far as tourists are concerned and local authorities crack down swift and hard when they are sure it has happened.How do we know that it's a rare crime if Thai authorities make sure it doesn't get reported? I agree with DavidM. The Thai authorities will find the disgusting little efforts that were responsible and deal with them fast. I bet the Thai police will probably never catch the perpetrators. If police is pressured with an arrest deadline by superiors,they might arrest some scapegoats to close the case! What an amazing difference in publicity from the "false rape charge" the Hong Kong woman brought against the tuk-tuk driver! She had to apologize to all Thai people. It would be fun to see those rapists apologize publicly to all tourists who've ever been to Thailand. Snowleopard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Snowleopad the answer is right here. We know, we talk here about it. Those of us with Thai families hear about it and post and it gets discussed. The actual numbers of visitors/guests on site at any time is far in advance of the numbers we see as members. The ratio currently sitting on 1.85:1 over a measured 24 hour period. What we talk about here, gets talked about elsewhere. Therein lies one reason I like the idea of members posting news items from their local newspapers, as translated by their family and friends, into the forum. The news rarely goes unreported in the Thai Press, that is frequently missed or not followed up on, in the 2 broadsheets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrvietnam2001 Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 It has nothing to do with "face". It has everything to do with economics. Mr Vietnam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 A couple of inappropriate postings has been deleted from this thread. /Admin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidm Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 As ###### pointed out, we know rape is an extremely rare crime against foreigners because we have our news sources. That's how we found out about the crime mentioned in this thread. Foreigners and/or their relatives complain vociferously if they have been a victim of a serious crime, and if it doesn't make the news here, it often appears in the international press. I'm aware that the murder rate against foreigners is much higher than is reported in the Bangkok Post and Nation, but even taking the higher figures into account, violent crime against foreigners is very rare. Rape is even scarcer partly because the victim would almost certainly be a tourist or the wife of an expat businessman with connections i.e has been sent overseas by his employer. Regardless of their motives, Thai police crack down immediately such a crime is confirmed. It helps that violent criminals tend not to be very intelligent. Thai thugs even more so. In rape cases, it's unlikely the people arrested are framed because the victim has to identify her attacker(s). What is often overlooked is that Thai society as whole is violent. The country has a high per capita murder rate. Rape and sexual abuse are almost unbelievably rife. Muggings are becoming more frequent, too. The victims are almost exclusively Thai as aggressors usually know the fate in store if they jeopardise the tourist industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowleopard Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Snowleopad the answer is right here.. We know, we talk here about it. If we know,we talk here about it! Which is good. I suspect many rapes in Thailand go unreported for other reasons than censorship too. I think this is a great forum and it's fantastic that even censored news can be published. It exposes the mentality of the Thai authorities and shows how they try to manipulate perception of Thailand. When "farangs" commit crimes,they are more than happy to report so readers get the impression that Thais are always the good guys or the victims! I'm a believer in freedom of speech and I think everything should come out in the open and be reported.The good,the bad and the ugly. If I come across something,I'll remember to post it here! Snowleopard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 DavidM I agree with what you post, about it being rife however I think it needs to be very clearly delineated. In over 80% of cases it is familial. That is to say, it is husbands murdering wives or the wifes' bit on the side. Occasionally the other way about, but in the main it is between partners and/or family members, relations and occasionally work mates/colleagues. I know this doesn't make it better, but I have to say, that I have never ever felt in the slightest bit "threatened" in Thailand, by any Thai person. Does that change the way you view it? Or does it more or less correspond with your view? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkthai Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 There are lots of criminal activities that go unreported everyday in English newspapers but are covered by Thai newspapers. In the case of rape, you will find reports of it on a lot more frequent basis in Thai newspapers. This could be thai/thai or thai/farang. The point here is the English newspapers tends to not report both equally on a more frequent basis. With regards to criminal activities, as a whole, I feel a lot safer walking the downtown streets of Bangkok or Chiang Mai versus Los Angeles or San Francisco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrvietnam2001 Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 The Vietnamese government issued a proclamation several years ago, "thou shalt not give one second of grief to an American visitor". I'm paraphrasing obviously. My second trip, I was negotiating with a Cycle driver on the purchase or sale of a soldiers "bones". He approached me and offered me a photo and "bones" for about 100US. I merely said, "100 US?" No way baby, I'm from New York, the wholesale capital of the US and I can offer them to YOU for 10 bucks!" Well then came the typically VietNamese response " I not unstand!" It was too funny and I was enjoying the whole thing actually. A "blue license plate" vehicle screeched up and 4 men got out of the vehicle and grabbed this poor cyclo driver, threw him against the vehicle, then put him inside while I YELLED at them " what is your fking problem! We were talking!" to which they ignored me, and drove off leaving me to only imagine what became of that poor cyclo driver. I was ( and am when I'm back) as deep in the Viet community as you can go. I have NEVER had a moments worry in Vnam even when I was hussling on the pool tables ( the reverse hussle). NEVER. On the other hand, I DID have a few near confrontations in Thailand. Actually got physical with someone once ( actually 2 of them). After a slap, the thai's ran behind a car, re-evaluated their position and then took off. I'm a grown man and I really don't have interest, time etc for that kind of crap. The thai's were sometimes extremely " in your face" whereas the Viets were the opposite and certainly we could debate who would come out a winner in a thai-viet confrontation with my bets that the thais would cut tail and run. Maybe the Thai's need to outsource investigative and then "correctional" activities to the Viets. My bet would be the "thugs" like this would disappear from Thailand in less than a month and you wouldn't read stories like this in Thai or any other language as they wouldn't happen. They ( the authorities) went too far in Vietnam, and not far enough in Thailand. Where's the balance. Mr Vietnam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartender100 Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 i thought Andrew Drummond usually coverd these sort of story's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marto Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 I know this doesn't make it better, but I have to say, that I have never ever felt in the slightest bit "threatened" in Thailand, by any Thai person. I can say the same with my modest /about 4 months/ Thai experience. Moreover - I have such Thai friends and met such people that I have been never met in other countries. But I am absolutely agree that the criminality in Thailand is really too high and that is not reported not only in the news - even the police do not get complains /hmm.. what about the police corruption? couple officers stopped me - "police check, your passport please!" - I didn't bring it with me - "let's go to police station - police check - 1000 Baht" - I told them - "OK" - after 5 min thinking - "OK Sir - if you have 500 we will not go to the police" - "Guys, don't have such money in my wallet - lets go to the police..." - another 5 min thinking - "OK, Sir - have a nice day and next time go out with your passport". The couple wore the usual braun uniforms with all necessary badges/. But all the criminality, in my oppinion, is among the Thais and with very few exception - it is against farangs. I have /of course ) a Thai girlfriend - her parents had sold her to a guy to be his wife in age 13. She didn't want him - he raped her repeatedly. 7 years she has been in slavery. At the end of the slavery his husband decided that usual homework isn't enough for her and forced her to start finding farangs with money... Thank's God - she found a German guy and after 2 years long divorce /infront Buddha, all authorities etc/ she got free. The German left her - but that's other story - soap opera. The Thai men attitude to the women is, to put it mildly, as they are livestock... How do you thing - how many raped Thai women have been reported in the police if they had been abused by Thai man? What about the drug gangs shootings? I've been always wondering - dead penalty for drugs /btw - I am absolutely agree!/ - but you can find drugs more easy than in other parts of the World... It's stupid and strange - you can live in Thailand as farang being and you couldnt't meet criminality - at the same time when Thais rape, kill and mug themselves.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marto Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 I was ( and am when I'm back) as deep in the Viet community as you can go. I have NEVER had a moments worry in Vnam even when I was hussling on the pool tables ( the reverse hussle). NEVER. The thai's were sometimes extremely " in your face" whereas the Viets were the opposite and certainly we could debate who would come out a winner in a thai-viet confrontation with my bets that the thais would cut tail and run. You're extremely right! But may be that's the charm of Thais.... I'm absolutely sure - you're really vet in Nam.... Simply - you respect the enemy... Beer on me... Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrvietnam2001 Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 I was ( and am when I'm back) as deep in the Viet community as you can go. I have NEVER had a moments worry in Vnam even when I was hussling on the pool tables ( the reverse hussle). NEVER. The thai's were sometimes extremely " in your face" whereas the Viets were the opposite and certainly we could debate who would come out a winner in a thai-viet confrontation with my bets that the thais would cut tail and run. You're extremely right! But may be that's the charm of Thais.... I'm absolutely sure - you're really vet in Nam.... Simply - you respect the enemy... Beer on me... Cheers Thank you but make it a Ginseng tonic as I don't drink anymore ( 4 years!) And no I'm not a veteran, having been smart enough to get out of it after they sent me. And although I "would" respect" my enemy, ( would be dumb not too), The Vietnamese people were never my enemy and so I respect them as a people and how they treat me. I do not respect their government however. Nor my own. Nor anyone elses. Rgrds Mr Vietnam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marto Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Cheers Thank you but make it a Ginseng tonic as I don't drink anymore ( 4 years!) The Vietnamese people were never my enemy and so I respect them as a people and how they treat me. I do not respect their government however. Nor my own. Nor anyone elses. Rgrds Mr Vietnam Hmm... Curves are allowed I meant - a beer is not a sin Respect the enemies - of course - the people also. About the governments - I'm agree /one more reason the beer to be on me!/ they always aint right. I loved your experience with Thais - taxi and tuck-tuck drivers always aint right Huh -don't tell me that you even don't smoke /cigarettes/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowleopard Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I do not respect their government however. Nor my own. Nor anyone elses. You just said a great thing there and gained my respect! Snowleopard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Are we running off-topic here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Moog Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 People are making it sound like some giant Orwellian conspiracy to commit secret unreported crimes on Farangs. ...but then its pointed out that its in the Thai papers, so all it takes is for George to read these papers and summarise the stories. Bingo - Thaivisa single-handedly takes English journalism to a new level in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidm Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 In over 80% of cases it is familial. That is to say, it is husbands murdering wives or the wifes' bit on the side. Occasionally the other way about, but in the main it is between partners and/or family members, relations and occasionally work mates/colleagues. The only categories I would add are people who lend money and spontaneous crimes of opportunity. It's quite common for Thais who are heavily in debt to decide the solution to their problem is murdering their creditor. Your 80% estimate is probably right for rape and sexual abuse, too. As for not feeling safe, well that feeling doesn't occur very often. Mind you, being the target of a contract isn't very soothing on the nerves. Mr. Average can stagger down a red light district at 2am in the morning, absolutely shitfaced and the worst risks he is taking are pickpockets or falling over. That says a lot about this place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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