British student, 19, mauled by 400lb tiger in Thailand at popular tourist attraction

[surangw]

the tiger build up a tolerance to the drugs

[wilcopops]

it looks like the brains stay at home if tourists leave for vacation.....

A bit like the brains stay at home behaviour exhibited by personages living in Thailand who profess not to be tourists on vacation, but "residents" you mean ?

This may have not been the smartest move, but are you suggesting all accountability is on this girl ?

The tiger temple has a great deal of accoutability in this case... for encouraging the girl to do this, for a fee, I assume

Having been to the tiger temple, there is "hard selling" by people at the temple for tourists to get their photo's taken simply because they are making money out it, so they are going to tell somebody anything to get their hands on the cash...

these are wild animals and the temple should not even encourage this...

Yes, the accountability is 100% on the girl. If people like her did not go to the temple then these tiger shows would not exist. Nobody is forced to buy. In fact, if you don't go then you do not face any "hard selling" at all. End of problem.

Actually it would just be the start of the problems......

The temple has about 100 tigers - they can NEVER be released, but they do need managing correctly and the breeding needs to cease.

At present the temple is operating like a big con.

they mislead visitors into believing they have conservation credentials - they have absolutely NONE whatsoever.

they are simply a commercial show - akin to the circuses of the 19th century.

Furthermore they imply some mystic connection between tiger and monk and lull visitors into a false sense of security, thinking that these animals are for one reason or another rendered docile by the monks.

The monks 9or rather their management) have set up the image of this place and it is totally misleading. they have refused offers of help and advice by conservationists and exist in spite of court cases and laws that rule against them.

the authorities have neither the will nor the wherewithal to take over the place ....yet. but in the end this will have to be done.

[wilcopops]

Many many years ago on safari in Kenya we were going on a morning photo -Tsavo park trip. The guide told everyone that if any ladies were on their (period) NOT to go on the safari. What animals reacted to this I was never sure BUT it was fact that SOME get the scent and will attack the person. My memory is very clear, but I am not saying there is anything in this incident --BUT people have to know these important things.

This is beside the sort of Russian roulette that people gamble with dangerous animals. Show them in suitable surroundings if they cannot go back to the wild, as we can learn from them especially if most persons do not have the money for actual trips to distant countries.

Please do not jump on me -I am aware that tigers are not found naturally in Africa.

Year ago, I read about a cougar jumped and killed a woman jogger in California, near a city (Sacramento). The jogger was menstrating.

There are actually some tigers in Africa. There's a relatively small program to acclimate them there. Main reason: the voracious appetite of Chinese for all things related to big cats. The Chinese think the pulverized bones, particularly of penis, gives men hard-ons. It's sick. Written on the extinction tombstone of big cats: "Thanks to sexually inept Chinese men, our species vanished."

Tigers haven't lived in the wild in Africa about 2 million years ago their ancestors lived there.

There is a conservation project in South Africa to save the South China tiger sub-species.

but effectively tigers have never lived wild in Africa.

[wilcopops]

the tiger build up a tolerance to the drugs

Not necessarily - where do you get that snippet from?

With the tigers at the temple there are many hurdles to overcome.......firstly you have to prove that the animals were drugged - the monks will do everything in their power to preent that.

then you have to decide what drug may or may not have been used and in what doses, how often and over what period.

as with all living things reaction to drugs varies and different drugs have different problems.

In humans it is easy to detect physical addition to thins like heroine.

but people also become addicted to alcohol and tranquillisers.

The long term side effects are often not tolerance by psychological or other mental and physical side effects.

you can't simply take drugs without some kind of payback in the end.

Edited August 31, 2013 by wilcopops

[marstons]

Thanks for the warning young university student about the dangers of walking around and petting tigers, i would imagine most 10-12 years know that one already.

[wilcopops]

I went to the Tiger temple in Kanchanaburi, and I noticed that only farang would go close to the tigers. The Thai visitors stayed away. I thought to myself, the Thais know tigers better than me - I stayed close to the Thais.

Ignorance of wildlife,animal behaviour, and conservation knows no bounds in Thailand, i'd suggest you are basing your actions (however effective they are) on a serious misconception.

[wilcopops]

A bit like the brains stay at home behaviour exhibited by personages living in Thailand who profess not to be tourists on vacation, but "residents" you mean ?

This may have not been the smartest move, but are you suggesting all accountability is on this girl ?

The tiger temple has a great deal of accoutability in this case... for encouraging the girl to do this, for a fee, I assume

Having been to the tiger temple, there is "hard selling" by people at the temple for tourists to get their photo's taken simply because they are making money out it, so they are going to tell somebody anything to get their hands on the cash...

these are wild animals and the temple should not even encourage this...

Yes, the accountability is 100% on the girl. If people like her did not go to the temple then these tiger shows would not exist. Nobody is forced to buy. In fact, if you don't go then you do not face any "hard selling" at all. End of problem.

Of course you can use that rational, but one could also suggest if there were no tigers left in the world, one wouldnt get bitten either..end of problem also...so your suggesting the tiger temple has no degree of accountability in this at all ?

And of course reading the article the temple concerned has paid for her medical treatment as suggested, they have already accpeted some of the accountability anyway but virtue of picking up the hosptial bill..

The thread isn't about tigers in the wild, it's about a scam set up by monks of all people, to enslave wild animals so that tourists pay a hefty fee to have their picture taken with them.

And if people didn't support these scams then there would no need for the temple to pay for medical treatment when the enslaved animals bite back.

The problem exists solely with those who create the demand, ie the tourists.

Actually the it is the temple that created the the demand by creating the product. This is common practice in business.We ALL need food, but we don't need a big Mac.

The temple has created an image that creates a demand i the public - we don't wake up in the morning with a need to pet tigers - the temple implies that we can and it will answer some quasi religious yearning and a feeling that we are doing something about the environment - all totally untrue of course.

How ever one thing you can be sure of is that through the ages Man has not woken up in the morning with an urge to pet a tiger---- or sabre tooth as was....

[wilcopops]

One does not pet a wild deadly predator. Period. Close down the Tiger Temple it´s a bad place.

Closing down is not and never has been a viable option.

Regime change is the only practical solution.

[surangw]

"One does not pet a wild deadly predator.."

and yet they date bar girls

[maxtingtong]

Looks like they accurately avoid to name 'the famous tourist attraction in western thailand'

[MaxYakov]

A 400lb Tiger is perfectly capable of grabbing a 150lb human female (lets just assume she was a big girl) in it's mouth and leaping a 15 foot wall in one bound with her in it's mouth without ever touching that wall.

There are absolutely documented reports from India where a full grown Tiger grabbed a 100 KILOGRAM cow and leaped over a 5 METER high wall with that cow in it's mouth.

She was lucky the tiger was probably drugged.

Even "declawed" a 400lb tiger could kill a normal human being with just a blow from it's paw.

They are big, strong, animals designed by nature as ambush hunters who ambush and kill kill their prey as quickly as possible.

Only a fool "plays" with Tigers ..... even when they don't intend to hurt you they are so strong that what to them is a playful blow can seriously injure a human being.

If a 400lb tiger simply rolled over on me in its sleep I'd probably be a gonner - one of the reasons I don't sleep with women weighing more than I.

[wilcopops]

Looks like they accurately avoid to name 'the famous tourist attraction in western thailand'

THe temple undoubtedly has influence in high places in Thailand - this story is 8 weeks old........., I think the foreign press are cautious with names that are foreign and may have experienced difficulty in getting Thai confirmation of the place's name.

[Soutpeel]

it looks like the brains stay at home if tourists leave for vacation.....

A bit like the brains stay at home behaviour exhibited by personages living in Thailand who profess not to be tourists on vacation, but "residents" you mean ?

This may have not been the smartest move, but are you suggesting all accountability is on this girl ?

The tiger temple has a great deal of accoutability in this case... for encouraging the girl to do this, for a fee, I assume

Having been to the tiger temple, there is "hard selling" by people at the temple for tourists to get their photo's taken simply because they are making money out it, so they are going to tell somebody anything to get their hands on the cash...

these are wild animals and the temple should not even encourage this...

Yes, the accountability is totally on the girl...and every other moron, who goes to these places and believes the fairytale of the "peaceful" tigers, living in "harmony" with the "peaceful" monks, just because the Buddha wanted it to be this way.

You pay to go on a ride at a theme park, during the ride there is a mechanical failure due to improper maintenance or supervison by the person looking after the ride, which results in an injury to yourself.....so there is no accountability on the theme park owner....its your fault, because you paid your money and chose to get on the ride ?

What happend in tiger temple is not much different...she has paid for "service"

[bander]

‘I was nervous about going into the Temple,’ says Miss Brennan, ‘however, I was reassured by the staff that as the tigers had been hand reared, they were so used to humans they were completely tame.

Tigers are wild animals and predators whatever Thais says, the only reason they open this "Tiger Temple" is go get money from tourists who visit the place. In my opinion it should be closed down for visitors, let the Buddha monks pet them

[bander]

IMO anyone who tries to pet a tiger sleeping or not is a good candidate for the Darwin awards.

The quote in the article that got me was what the staff told her..."dont worry no has been seriously injured before"... width=20 alt=blink.png>

Is Thai's world wide known for telling the truth? What any thai "tells" me in this country I always smile and think: "keep up with your good work trying to get my money"

[xray]

I don't fault the young lady for taking the chance of petting a tiger. It wasn't the tiger she was petting that attacked her, rather a rogue cat who was probably jealous of the attention.

You don't fault the girl? It was the tigers fault then ? You idiot.

You clown. Life is about taking risks. She had a greater chance of suffering a transportation related injury in getting to the Tiger Temple. I don't fault her decision making any more than I would that of someone who goes scuba or sky diving, rock climbing, river rafting, bungee jumping. The young lady is not afraid to take a risk, more power and a long thrilling life to her.

Edited September 1, 2013 by xray

[DocN]

it looks like the brains stay at home if tourists leave for vacation.....

A bit like the brains stay at home behaviour exhibited by personages living in Thailand who profess not to be tourists on vacation, but "residents" you mean ?

This may have not been the smartest move, but are you suggesting all accountability is on this girl ?

The tiger temple has a great deal of accoutability in this case... for encouraging the girl to do this, for a fee, I assume

Having been to the tiger temple, there is "hard selling" by people at the temple for tourists to get their photo's taken simply because they are making money out it, so they are going to tell somebody anything to get their hands on the cash...

these are wild animals and the temple should not even encourage this...

Yes, the accountability is totally on the girl...and every other moron, who goes to these places and believes the fairytale of the "peaceful" tigers, living in "harmony" with the "peaceful" monks, just because the Buddha wanted it to be this way.

You pay to go on a ride at a theme park, during the ride there is a mechanical failure due to improper maintenance or supervison by the person looking after the ride, which results in an injury to yourself.....so there is no accountability on the theme park owner....its your fault, because you paid your money and chose to get on the ride ?

What happend in tiger temple is not much different...she has paid for "service"

All the theme- parks I have ever been in, have a high standard on security checks.

If something goes wrong, it is an accident and well...that happens.

With some dudes, who know nothing about what they are actually doing, just drugging a few wild animals with no control or checks whatsoever,it is an accident waiting to happen.

Those are very different things.

[lovetotravel]

I don't fault the young lady for taking the chance of petting a tiger. It wasn't the tiger she was petting that attacked her, rather a rogue cat who was probably jealous of the attention.

You don't fault the girl? It was the tigers fault then ? You idiot.

You clown. Life is about taking risks. She had a greater chance of suffering a transportation related injury in getting to the Tiger Temple. I don't fault her decision making any more than I would that of someone who goes scuba or sky diving, rock climbing, river rafting, bungee jumping. The young lady is not afraid to take a risk, more power and a long thrilling life to her.

There's a huge difference between getting in a transport accident vs. willingly petting extremely dangerous animals. Same with the other activities you mention. I've done most of them and the safety standards used were very high, some involving many hours of training beforehand. But the safety standards are non-existent at this temple.

Just because you sign a wavier doesn't mean they can't be found to be legally liable. Well, except here in Thailand.

[pizzachang]

IMO anyone who tries to pet a tiger sleeping or not is a good candidate for the Darwin awards.

There does seem to be, in many parts of the world, humans that 'think' they can 'relate' to wild animals....dangerous wild animals. These individuals base their actions on anecdotal evidence, having at least 1 success at getting close to a wild animal and an erroneous belief that if you are 'nice' to wild animals, they won't hurt you. Several have been killed by bears in Alaska and others mauled by various large cats. Even with some working knowledge of the behavior of a dangerous species, your chances of injury or death are much higher - unacceptably higher IMO.

[Skywalker69]

I don't fault the young lady for taking the chance of petting a tiger. It wasn't the tiger she was petting that attacked her, rather a rogue cat who was probably jealous of the attention.

You don't fault the girl? It was the tigers fault then ? You idiot.

Its the head munks fault, he should never have tigers interact with tourists. They are in it för the money.

[xray]

<snip>...She had a greater chance of suffering a transportation related injury in getting to the Tiger Temple. I don't fault her decision making any more than I would that of someone who goes scuba or sky diving, rock climbing, river rafting, bungee jumping. The young lady is not afraid to take a risk, more power and a long thrilling life to her.

There's a huge difference between getting in a transport accident vs. willingly petting extremely dangerous animals. Same with the other activities you mention. I've done most of them and the safety standards used were very high, some involving many hours of training beforehand. But the safety standards are non-existent at this temple.

Not sure how you see a "huge difference" in accepting the risk of discretionary travel (transportation) and that of another discretionary activity (petting the tiger). While what you wrote regarding saftey standards for the 'other activities' is true most of the time, it is not uniformly so. There have been people killed or seriously injured in all of those activies. I am speaking about people who participated with the supposed saftey of a guide or organisation, similar to what the young lady at the Tiger Temple had intended to do.

Edited September 1, 2013 by xray

[lovetotravel]

<snip>...She had a greater chance of suffering a transportation related injury in getting to the Tiger Temple. I don't fault her decision making any more than I would that of someone who goes scuba or sky diving, rock climbing, river rafting, bungee jumping. The young lady is not afraid to take a risk, more power and a long thrilling life to her.

There's a huge difference between getting in a transport accident vs. willingly petting extremely dangerous animals. Same with the other activities you mention. I've done most of them and the safety standards used were very high, some involving many hours of training beforehand. But the safety standards are non-existent at this temple.

Not sure how you see a "huge difference" in accepting the risk of discretionary travel (transportation) and that of another discretionary activity (petting the tiger). While what you wrote regarding saftey standards for the 'other activities' is true most of the time, it is not uniformly so. There have been people killed or seriously injured in all of those activies. I am speaking about people who participated with the supposed saftey of a guide or organisation, similar to what the young lady at the Tiger Temple had intended to do.

I wouldn't describe transportation as discretionary. For many, it's a absolute necessary. Like going to work, shopping, etc. Even for travelers, it's a necessity. Yes, it's dangerous here, but not much you can do about it. Other than avoid night buses! 5555

But like you say, you can die stepping out of your bathtub. Life is dangerous, but no reason to make it more so with dodgy activities like this. I do include skydiving, rock climbing and bungee jumping into that category also!! 5555

[Stokakrishna]

She was saved when keepers at the Tiger Temple sanctuary in West Thailand...

why the post doesn't name the place????

to prevent tourists from not going there?

if it is in Thailand it must be tiger temple in kanchanaburi province. Around 40 km north of the town.

been there many times. Fiorst time around 10 years ago. Since then it has changed, but for the worse

[wilcopops]

When it comes to blame - there are some pretty thin arguments suggesting it was the girl's fault.

Consider this - the temple misleads the public on several levels - it has been pointed out by various media organs and other wildlife campaigners. So the girl like most of those who visit the temple are enticed in under false pretences. The signing of papers is all part of the show....designed to create an atmosphere......no-one in their right mind enters that place expecting there is the remotest chance of being mauled or injured in anyway - they certainly don't get legal advice about the document that is suddenly waved in front of their face.

[Somtamnication]

I don't fault the young lady for taking the chance of petting a tiger. It wasn't the tiger she was petting that attacked her, rather a rogue cat who was probably jealous of the attention.

You don't fault the girl? It was the tigers fault then ? You idiot.

You clown. Life is about taking risks. She had a greater chance of suffering a transportation related injury in getting to the Tiger Temple. I don't fault her decision making any more than I would that of someone who goes scuba or sky diving, rock climbing, river rafting, bungee jumping. The young lady is not afraid to take a risk, more power and a long thrilling life to her.

But it isn't about just taking risks, is it? It is about an ignorant tourist, giving money to a slave trade overseer. I never hear of corals complaining, or the clouds complaining about sky diving, or the river or the bungee cord complaining.

These animals are slaves, trapped and fed god-knows what to "tame" them. They are far more beautiful and happy, free.

[nycjoe]

These shows really are atrocious, elephants live in constant fear. tigers are drugged i will never go to a show again after reading up on how bad these animals are treated.

[lovetotravel]

Just saw this video. Pretty sad what they are doing there:

http://www.sbs.com.au/dateline/story/watch/id/601585/n/Taming-the-Tigers

[xray]

<snip>...Life is about taking risks. She had a greater chance of suffering a transportation related injury in getting to the Tiger Temple. I don't fault her decision making any more than I would that of someone who goes scuba or sky diving, rock climbing, river rafting, bungee jumping...

But it isn't about just taking risks, is it? It is about an ignorant tourist, giving money to a slave trade overseer. I never hear of corals complaining, or the clouds complaining about sky diving, or the river or the bungee cord complaining.

These animals are slaves, trapped and fed god-knows what to "tame" them. They are far more beautiful and happy, free.

Weighing risk, managing it, taking it when you believe it is acceptable. I wouldn't expect a 19 year old on holiday here to be as well-informed about the Tiger Temple moral issue as those who are posting about it on this thread. I believe coral has indeed complained, however, that is not the aspect I was commenting on; rather the risk to a person partaking in the activities mentioned.

Edited September 2, 2013 by xray

[wilcopops]

Here's the SBS program on the Temple - mentions a previous mauling....or two or three!

http://www.sbs.com.au/dateline/story/watch/id/601585/n/Taming-the-Tigers

Edited September 2, 2013 by wilcopops

[tingtongteesood]

These were the tigers that would never harm anyone as they are good 'Buddhist tigers'. Tigers are vicious killing machines, full stop. Anyone who goes near one, however drugged up it may be takes their life in their hands. When the drugs ware off, the beast within comes out.