British Citizenship / Naturalisation Question

[quadisking]

My wife came to the UK in March 2010 on a tourist visa for 6 months. We went back to Thailand in Sept, and she immediately applied for a 2-year spouse visa which we received 2 months later, so we returned to the UK in Nov 2010. She passed her KOL test and got her ILR Settlement visa in March this year.

So all in all (if you include the 6 month tourist visa part) she has been in the UK for over 3 years. Does this mean that she can apply for naturalisation now on the basis that she has been resident in the UK for over 3 years and has only been out of the UK for 2 months (which is less than the 270 days allowed)?

Or does the tourist visa part not count?

The reason why I ask is that I read that after 28th October there will be a new law passed which will mean her having to pass a B1 or equivalent English test as well as the KOL Test which she already passed to get ILR (I understand that she won't have to resit the KOL Test again).

I am keen to avoid her having to pass the additional English Test as it's just more hassle, and I think that I'm right in thinking that she could apply for naturalisation immediately thus avoiding having to do it, could 7by7 or somebody else with the knowledge please confirm I have understood correctly?

It's the 'legally resident in the UK' bit that confuses me, but I'm assuming that a tourist visa counts as 'legally resident'?

[7by7]

Time spent in the UK as a tourist or other category of visa can count towards the residential requirement for naturalisation.

The residential requirements for a spouse or civil partner of a British citizen are:

• the applicant must be free from immigration time restrictions, i.e. hold ILR or the equivalent (how long they have held it doesn't matter),
• must have been legally present in the UK on the exact day 3 years prior to applying (the type of visa held at that time doesn't matter)
• and during the past 3 years have spent no more than 270 days out of the UK with no more than 90 days in the final year.

There are other requirements as well; see Requirements for naturalisation if you are married to or the civil partner of a British citizen

You may find British Citizenship Basics helpful.

[quadisking]

Thanks 7by7, I did read these already, but just wanted some clarity in case I have misinterpreted it.

My wife did not get her ILR until 15th November 2010, so therefore on 28th October 2013 it would be just under 3 years.

So therefore would she be classed as resident while she was on her 6 month visa initially? Or would she not be classed as resident for that period because they would class that she was just here on a holiday as opposed to residing here? I'm certain that she would meet all the other qualifying criteria.

[7by7]

As I said, even though they say 'resident' in the guidance, time spent in the UK as a visitor can count towards the residential qualifying period.

It's not three years after ILR; it's 3 years from first entering the UK.

Unless she was granted ILE in Thailand, i.e. you had lived there together for at least 4 years before she applied for settlement, then if she obtained ILR in the UK in November 2010 she must have entered with her settlement visa no earlier than November 2008.

In which case, even if we ignore the prior visit, she could have applied anytime after November 2011.

Can you please clarify:

What were the exact dates she was in the UK with her visit visa?

When did she first enter the UK with her settlement visa?

Was that a standard spouse visa valid for two years after which she applied for and obtained ILR?

Or had you lived together in Thailand for at least 4 years before and so she was granted ILE (which is the same as ILR but granted outside the UK)?

Edited September 3, 2013 by 7by7

[quadisking]

Tourist Visa : Came to UK in March 2010 and stayed for 6 months until Sept 2010.

Spouse Visa: November 2010 to November 2012.

ILR Settlement Visa: Granted in March 2013.

During this period she was only out of the UK for 2 months between Sept 2010 - Nov 2010 while waiting for her spouse visa to be issued.

So therefore she has been resident in the UK for over 3 years (naturalisation as married to a British Citizen i.e. me) and has been out of the UK for less than 270 days, so therefore she qualifies to apply, correct?

[quadisking]

*We did live together outside of the UK for more than 4 years, but we had only been married for 3 years and 9 months, so she was never issued with ILE, just the normal spouse visa.

[quadisking]

As she initially entered the UK in March 2010, she could therefore have applied for British Citizenship any time after March 2013?

Because time spent in the UK as a visitor can count towards the residential qualifying period? (as per your first sentence).

[7by7]

Tourist Visa : Came to UK in March 2010 and stayed for 6 months until Sept 2010.

Spouse Visa: November 2010 to November 2012.

ILR Settlement Visa: Granted in March 2013.

During this period she was only out of the UK for 2 months between Sept 2010 - Nov 2010 while waiting for her spouse visa to be issued.

So therefore she has been resident in the UK for over 3 years (naturalisation as married to a British Citizen i.e. me) and has been out of the UK for less than 270 days, so therefore she qualifies to apply, correct?

She was granted ILR in March 2013; so she meets the 'no time restriction' requirement.

She was legally present in the UK from March 2010 to Sept 2010; so she was legally present three years ago.

Between March 2010 and now she has spent less than 270 days in total out of the UK and none at all in the last 12 months.

So yes, she could have applied any time after March 2013 and so she can apply now; which means she doesn't need the B1 language test.

But she must make sure that they receive the application before the third anniversary of the day she left the UK after her visit; otherwise she will not have been in the UK on the right day and so will have to wait until the third anniversary of her return with her settlement visa; i.e. November 2013, which means she'll need to do the B1 language test. If she satisfied KOL for her ILR by means of an ESOL with citizenship course, she'd also have to take the LitUK test.

Edited September 3, 2013 by 7by7

[quadisking]

We flew back to Thailand via Malaysia. The date stamped in her passport for Malaysia was 7th September and Chiangmai on 8th September. So therefore we've got about 3 days to get the application in their hands?? Is it still possible if we send by Special Delivery?? Maybe we should contact them first if it's going to be very risky as if we don't qualify they keep the application fee anyway??

[RAZZELL]

Book an appointment at your local (any) NCS (Nationality Checking Service) asap you might be lucky.

RAZZ

Edited September 3, 2013 by RAZZELL

[quadisking]

What's an NCS?

[quadisking]

I got it now, thanks

[quadisking]

Can't I just do it myself and post it? I'm quite confident to check it myself, I just want to be sure it arrives in time.

[7by7]

I would advise using the NCS if possible as they will make sure all is in order and also copy and return the supporting documents.

Where is the Nationality Checking Service (NCS) available?

Posting it? Not got much time; remember it's not the day of posting that counts, it's the day they receive the application.

Where to send your application form

Good luck.

Edited September 3, 2013 by 7by7

[RAZZELL]

Have done this a few weeks ago (wife came here on a v/v, then fiancee). Her 3 years was actually 2 weeks after getting ILR.

Highly recommend using NCS.

Very nice woman at a local one to us, photocopied everything, passport and documents handed back and in and out in 20-30 minutes.

RAZZ

Edited September 3, 2013 by RAZZELL

[bobrussell]

I would advise using the NCS if possible as they will make sure all is in order and also copy and return the supporting documents.

Where is the Nationality Checking Service (NCS) available?

Posting it? Not got much time; remember it's not the day of posting that counts, it's the day they receive the application.

Where to send your application form

Good luck.

If you check;

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/partners-families/citizens-settled/spouse-cp/applying-in-uk/

At the bottom of the page it states:

"If you send your application form and application fee by post, the date of application is the date of posting. This is decided by the postmark. If the postmark is illegible or missing, the date of postage is taken as being at least 1 day before it is received by us.

If you send your application form and application fee by courier, the date of application is the date when it is delivered to our payment handling service."

If you post the application worth getting a certificate of posting if dates are critical. Recorded delivery better, NCS much better still!!

[7by7]

Bob, that link and the information in it is for FLR applications; we're talking about citizenship.

From Requirements for naturalisation if you are married to or the civil partner of a British citizen

Start of the residential qualifying period

The residential qualifying period will be worked out from the day we receive your application. Most unsuccessful applications fail because the applicant was not present in the United Kingdom at the beginning of the residential qualifying period. You must make sure you meet this requirement before you make your application. For example, if we received your application on 25 November 2005, you would have to show that you were in the United Kingdom on 26 November 2002.

Edited September 3, 2013 by 7by7

[quadisking]

I've called the local NCS, but the problem is that they can't give me any advice on whether UKBA will accept the application or not, they can only check the form to make sure it is completed correctly. If UKBA don't accept that's our 800 quid up the swanny. I've tried calling UKBA also, but just messages referring back to the website or email address which they will respond to within 20 days which also isn't much help.

If I spent tonight and most of the day tomorrow to complete the application and getting the documents together, and then posted it by special delivery before 5pm tomorrow it would be guaranteed to arrive on Thursday which is 5th September.

As my wife left the UK on 7th September 2010, would UKBA have to accept the application because she would have been in the UK exactly 3 years ago (i.e. 5th September 2010), or is it too risky because UKBA could refuse the application if they chose to??

[bobrussell]

I stand corrected!

Typical UKBA that one application uses one set of rules and another uses another!!

[7by7]

If they receive it on the 5th September 2013 and she can show she was in the UK on the 6th September 2010, then, as the example in the guidance shows, that's ok.

[7by7]

Did she pass the LitUK test for her ILR?

If so, then all she needs if she applies after October is a B1 in speaking and listening; which isn't all that hard; see table here.

Maybe better than rushing the application and risking cocking it up because you rushed it?

If she used the ESOL course route for ILR then she would need to pass the LitUK test as well, of course.

[quadisking]

Yes, she did pass the Life In the UK Test.

Her English speaking and listening skills are reasonable, but I'm not convinced she could pass the B1 test at the first attempt. Her reading and writing skills are much better, which I don't think form part of the test which is a shame.

£150 or so to sit the test, plus another expensive hassle trip to London, without even being certain she will pass the test isn't a great option, but then neither is risking cocking up the application or having somebody at UKBA decide that she wasn't in the UK 3 years ago and refusing it without checking the dates properly isn't a great option either, so I'll have to mull it over.

Thanks for all your help.

[dunque]

Yes, she did pass the Life In the UK Test.

Her English speaking and listening skills are reasonable, but I'm not convinced she could pass the B1 test at the first attempt. Her reading and writing skills are much better, which I don't think form part of the test which is a shame.

£150 or so to sit the test, plus another expensive hassle trip to London, without even being certain she will pass the test isn't a great option, but then neither is risking cocking up the application or having somebody at UKBA decide that she wasn't in the UK 3 years ago and refusing it without checking the dates properly isn't a great option either, so I'll have to mull it over.

Thanks for all your help.

There are accredited colleges who can pretty much guarantee a pass

[RAZZELL]

I've called the local NCS, but the problem is that they can't give me any advice on whether UKBA will accept the application or not, they can only check the form to make sure it is completed correctly. If UKBA don't accept that's our 800 quid up the swanny. I've tried calling UKBA also, but just messages referring back to the website or email address which they will respond to within 20 days which also isn't much help.

If I spent tonight and most of the day tomorrow to complete the application and getting the documents together, and then posted it by special delivery before 5pm tomorrow it would be guaranteed to arrive on Thursday which is 5th September.

As my wife left the UK on 7th September 2010, would UKBA have to accept the application because she would have been in the UK exactly 3 years ago (i.e. 5th September 2010), or is it too risky because UKBA could refuse the application if they chose to??

Good luck!

RAZZ

Edited September 3, 2013 by RAZZELL

[tibap]

Hi All

I am interested in this topic as my wife is in a similar situation, she came to the UK on a family visit visa on the 25th march 2010, and departed the UK on 22nd September 2010.

She returned to the UK on the 15th December 2010 having received ILR on the 10th December 2010, so providing we apply before the 22nd September she will be eligible for naturalisation under existing rules ?

Also as UK immigration do not stamp her passport on departure, I assume the arrival stamp back in Thailand will suffice.

Thanks in advance for any replies guy's.

Tibap

[7by7]

Yes and Yes.

Providing she has not spent more than 270 days in total out of the UK during the last three years and not more than 90 days in the last year.

And she meets all the other requirements, of course.

Remember they must receive her application by the 21st September.