PM Cameron to make British welfare off limits to migrants

[tw25rw]

The Conservative Party election campaign begins here.

[7by7]

Transam; read the link to NI direct* in my previous, and also the Home Office publication Public Funds.

Many Brits don't know the facts, Cameron should be educating them, not playing to their ignorance and prejudices.

If foreign 'spongers' are queuing up to get into 'spongeland' they are going to be very disappointed when or if they get to the UK!

*Edit; forgot to say that NI in this instance stands for Northern Ireland; but the basic rules are the same throughout the UK.

The spongers are here. At last someone is looking at where all the UK folks tax cash is going.

Why won't you read the facts about what benefits immigrants can and cannot claim and what their immigration status has to be before they can claim anything?

Scared that the facts will destroy your prejudices?

[transam]

Transam; read the link to NI direct* in my previous, and also the Home Office publication Public Funds.

Many Brits don't know the facts, Cameron should be educating them, not playing to their ignorance and prejudices.

If foreign 'spongers' are queuing up to get into 'spongeland' they are going to be very disappointed when or if they get to the UK!

*Edit; forgot to say that NI in this instance stands for Northern Ireland; but the basic rules are the same throughout the UK.

The spongers are here. At last someone is looking at where all the UK folks tax cash is going.

Why won't you read the facts about what benefits immigrants can and cannot claim and what their immigration status has to be before they can claim anything?

Scared that the facts will destroy your prejudices?

You are near alone with your thoughts. 500,000 lost folk taking jobs cash in hand, foreigners using UK tax payers money cos they can. Must I go on.

[Totster]

Transam; read the link to NI direct* in my previous, and also the Home Office publication Public Funds.

Many Brits don't know the facts, Cameron should be educating them, not playing to their ignorance and prejudices.

If foreign 'spongers' are queuing up to get into 'spongeland' they are going to be very disappointed when or if they get to the UK!

*Edit; forgot to say that NI in this instance stands for Northern Ireland; but the basic rules are the same throughout the UK.

The spongers are here. At last someone is looking at where all the UK folks tax cash is going.

Why won't you read the facts about what benefits immigrants can and cannot claim and what their immigration status has to be before they can claim anything?

Scared that the facts will destroy your prejudices?

You are near alone with your thoughts. 500,000 lost folk taking jobs cash in hand, foreigners using UK tax payers money cos they can. Must I go on.

7by7 is set on making sure that the immigrants are provided for at the cost of the tax payer in the UK, don't forget we also have the immigrants from the former colonies who get in via family and marriage then proceed to milk the system for what it is worth, oh yeah... they follow the procedure then work the system properly.

It this that the UK needs to tighten up on along with the influx of financial migrants from 'european' countries, the uk is a small island with a large population which is being increased daily. The EU is not fair, it's not a common market, there is no way I could go to some backwater European shithole and work for a wage comparable to what I would get in the UK !

The sooner the UK gets out of 'Europe' the better, then let's tackle all the other spongers who get into the UK and start draining the system.

totster

[7by7]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of people taking cash in hand work, and I'm sure more native Brits do so than immigrants, that is not claiming benefits!

Foreigners using tax payers money? What foreigners? What money?

Read the facts that I have linked to.

Do you object to foreigners who have lived and worked in the UK for many years, paying tax and NICs, claiming the benefits which their circumstances, taxes and NICs entitle them to?

[7by7]

7by7 is set on making sure that the immigrants are provided for at the cost of the tax payer in the UK

Where have I said that? Go one, find one quote of mine to back up your ludicrous statement.

As for the rest of the rubbish in your post; read the facts I have already linked to; unless like Transam you're too scared that the facts will destroy your prejudice.

Edited for spelling.

Edited September 9, 2013 by 7by7

[Totster]

7by7 is set on making sure that the immigrants are provided for at the cost of the tax payer in the UK

Where have I said that? Go one, find one quote of mine to back up your ludicrous statement.

As for the rest of the rubbish in your post; read the facts I have already linked to; unless like Transam you're too sacred that the facts will destroy your prejudice.

True, you haven't actually said it.. but your posts smack of an apologist.

I have read the information you linked to, yes.. that's the official line, but the government is soft and any immigrant with access to good legal advice will find the loopholes availalble.

Actually I believe the larger problem comes from immigrants from the colonies, they are playing the system properly with knowledge gained from a couple of generations of emigration. Why do you think it is that there are hundreds, thousands maybe of illegal immigrants trying to cross to the UK from France every day ? Why not settle in France?

I don't know why you can't see it, your calling my post rubbish just confirms you are blinkered, there is a growing majority that think like I do and all the government are doing is realising this and addressing it.

totster

Edited September 9, 2013 by Totster

[7by7]

Ever heard of the habitual residency test? Even returning Brits have to pass that in order to claim anything.

This is the official explanation from the DWP; but here is a simplified one from the CAB.

By 'immigrants from the colonies' I assume you mean from the Commonwealth. If they meet the relevant requirements to come to the UK the same as, for example, the Thai wife of a British citizen has to, then they have as much right to do so as that Thai wife.

But like that Thai wife, they cannot claim public funds until they have obtained ILR; which now takes at least 5 years.

Why are illegal immigrants in France trying to cross into the UK? Probably because they have fallen for the same lies about the UK benefit system as you have; they'll be very disappointed if they ever make it to the UK!

I am not saying that there are no people defrauding the system, both British and immigrants; I am not that naïve!

Benefit fraud is the problem Cameron should be addressing, not a problem which doesn't exist outside the minds of the right wing and those who have fallen for their propaganda.

[transam]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of people taking cash in hand work, and I'm sure more native Brits do so than immigrants, that is not claiming benefits!

Foreigners using tax payers money? What foreigners? What money?

Read the facts that I have linked to.

Do you object to foreigners who have lived and worked in the UK for many years, paying tax and NICs, claiming the benefits which their circumstances, taxes and NICs entitle them to?

Gawd 'elp us, have you lived in a shack in your back yard all your life, have you noooooooo knowledge of whats happening to your country via loop holes, the loop holes that are being milked. Eastern Europeans getting a foot hold on the daft UK benefit system to build estates in their own country.

You need to do some serious googling.

[Totster]

Ever heard of the habitual residency test? Even returning Brits have to pass that in order to claim anything.

This is the official explanation from the DWP; but here is a simplified one from the CAB.

By 'immigrants from the colonies' I assume you mean from the Commonwealth. If they meet the relevant requirements to come to the UK the same as, for example, the Thai wife of a British citizen has to, then they have as much right to do so as that Thai wife.

But like that Thai wife, they cannot claim public funds until they have obtained ILR; which now takes at least 5 years.

Why are illegal immigrants in France trying to cross into the UK? Probably because they have fallen for the same lies about the UK benefit system as you have; they'll be very disappointed if they ever make it to the UK!

I am not saying that there are no people defrauding the system, both British and immigrants; I am not that naïve!

Benefit fraud is the problem Cameron should be addressing, not a problem which doesn't exist outside the minds of the right wing and those who have fallen for their propaganda.

This is a good post, and I don't have an immediate response, I will come back later.

totster

[7by7]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of people taking cash in hand work, and I'm sure more native Brits do so than immigrants, that is not claiming benefits!

Foreigners using tax payers money? What foreigners? What money?

Read the facts that I have linked to.

Do you object to foreigners who have lived and worked in the UK for many years, paying tax and NICs, claiming the benefits which their circumstances, taxes and NICs entitle them to?

Gawd 'elp us, have you lived in a shack in your back yard all your life, have you noooooooo knowledge of whats happening to your country via loop holes, the loop holes that are being milked. Eastern Europeans getting a foot hold on the daft UK benefit system to build estates in their own country.

You need to do some serious googling.

Google, or any other search engine, will throw up lots of propaganda from the likes of UKIP and Migrationwatch.

It will also throw up the actual facts, such as those I have already linked to.

But it seems that facts are of no interest to you.

Maybe you can give some examples of the 'loopholes' to which you refer?

Edited September 9, 2013 by 7by7

[transam]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of people taking cash in hand work, and I'm sure more native Brits do so than immigrants, that is not claiming benefits!

Foreigners using tax payers money? What foreigners? What money?

Read the facts that I have linked to.

Do you object to foreigners who have lived and worked in the UK for many years, paying tax and NICs, claiming the benefits which their circumstances, taxes and NICs entitle them to?

Gawd 'elp us, have you lived in a shack in your back yard all your life, have you noooooooo knowledge of whats happening to your country via loop holes, the loop holes that are being milked. Eastern Europeans getting a foot hold on the daft UK benefit system to build estates in their own country.

You need to do some serious googling.

Google, or any other search engine, will throw up lots of propaganda from the likes of UKIP and Migrationwatch.

It will also throw up the actual facts, such as those I have already linked to.

But it seems that facts are of no interest to you.

Maybe you can give some examples of the 'loopholes' to which you refer?

I read google and Yahoo news. That's it, nooooooooooooooo political sites.

Ooooooop's forgot, I was on the ground in the UK to see what's going on. NOT, in a shack in my garden.

Edited September 9, 2013 by transam

[Scott]

Please keep your comments on the topic.

[7by7]

Transam, the information I have provided does not come from political sites, it comes from official government sites explaining the rules and the law; apart from the CAB one.

Are you accusing the Home Office, the Northern Ireland office, the DWP and the CAB of political bias? If so, whose party line do you imagine they are following, cos it aint Cameron's!

Are you going to give us any examples of the loopholes you claim exist; preferably with links to where you obtained the information?

[Jay Sata]

7by 7 you never want to face facts and love to link to other sites.

The facts are someone coming to the UK on a spouse visa can have access to all the benefits in five years.

I quote you.

But none of them explain the situation of those claiming. For example, many of the benefits being claimed are NIC based; if someone has paid into the system and then needs to claim from it, why shouldn't they?

They don't need to pay in to the system anymore than young unmarried mothers with multiple kids by multiple partners.

I know of three guys who married Thai wives only for them to leave when the paperwork (citizenship or ILR) was done and are now living nicely off the state. Free state funded house on a nice estate,no council tax to pay,tax credits etc plus a little part time work in the black economy.

This type of article also ignores the immigration status of the claimant. Indeed, the Telegraph article linked to above admits that the figures include people who have lived in the UK for so long that they are now British citizens!

Which takes how long? Five years and you can join the club and put your feet up for ever. You can't do that in Thailand.

No free state support for life plus top class medical care.

It would make more sense to limit state payouts to NI contributions pro rata.

[MAJIC]

The topic title and headline in the linked to article are both incorrect.

Non EEA immigrants cannot claim public funds until they have no time restriction on their stay in the UK; except for those they have contributed to via their NICs, if any.

This includes family members of British citizens and has been the rule for many years; certainly it was the case 13 years ago when my wife came to the UK.

Also, this is not an EU matter, it is an EEA one. (Don't know the difference? See here.)

The freedom of movement treaties and the rights bestowed by them are an EEA matter, not an EU one. The UK leaving the EU wont change these freedom of movement rights, unless we leave the EEA as well.

Immigrants from other EEA countries and Switzerland are allowed to claim public funds, as long as they do not become an unreasonable burden on the state. Exactly the same rules apply to Brits living in all other EEA countries and Switzerland.

The myth of EEA immigrants entering the UK and being handed a fat benefit payment and the keys to a council house are just that: a myth.

Cameron should know all this, and instead of pandering to the right and potential UKIP voters in his own party by promising to solve a 'problem' which doesn't exist, he should be educating the public as to the actual truth of the matter.

Camerons assessment of the situation concerning "making British welfare off limits to migrants" may not suit your argument (which by the way:you always take the apologists viewpoint) but the British people know he is perfectly right,let's see if he carries through,what British people have waited 3 or 4 decades to see happen! or whether it's just Electioneering pie in the sky promises? or a new dawning . This is a small question on a public forum,which will decide nothing,but whose side are you on 7by7 ?... oh! don't bother.

[samran]

Stop the wars which should slow the immigartion problem!

Don't think so, freebies attract us all.

Then why isn't everyone heading over to France or Sweden which have more attractive welfare benefits and health care than Britain does?

[transam]

Stop the wars which should slow the immigartion problem!

Don't think so, freebies attract us all.

Then why isn't everyone heading over to France or Sweden which have more attractive welfare benefits and health care than Britain does?

My Swedish chum tells me that the handouts are probably the same as UK, out of control.

Money for free from wherever.

[Scott]

I am not interested in weighing in on this argument, but my work in the area of refugees and resettlement indicates to me that most people prefer to go a county where they have some sort of link, usually a relative or family member. If there isn't a family member, then at least someone they know who can give them some guidance and assistance.

I would guess that many of these people waiting to get into the UK have a relative already resettled there.

When it comes to benefits, there is always the problem of out-right fraud. There is also the problem of legitimate recipients who have, for example housing provided for them, and then allow new immigrants to stay there.

[samran]

Stop the wars which should slow the immigartion problem!

Don't think so, freebies attract us all.

Then why isn't everyone heading over to France or Sweden which have more attractive welfare benefits and health care than Britain does?

My Swedish chum tells me that the handouts are probably the same as UK, out of control.

Money for free from wherever.

then the deciding factor has to be the fabulous British weather...or what Scott says.

[Steely Dan]

I don't like Cameron at all, but this is a small step in the right direction, albeit for electioneering purposes no doubt. I would need to see a lot more UKIP policies adopted before I would consider voting for him though, and alas whatever is done is akin to rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic, the damage is already done unfortunately.

[7by7]

7by 7 you never want to face facts and love to link to other sites.

Unlike you, I am not one for making wild claims with no evidence, so I link to other sites to provide that evidence.

Official government sites which detail exactly what benefits immigrants can and cannot claim.

Majic, that is not being an apologist for anything; it is stating the facts and providing the full information.

Like others, you both obviously don't like these facts because they interfere with your prejudices.

You have swallowed the anti immigrant line on benefits hook, line and sinker.

Edited September 10, 2013 by 7by7

[transam]

7by 7 you never want to face facts and love to link to other sites.

Unlike you, I am not one for making wild claims with no evidence, so I link to other sites to provide that evidence.

Official government sites which detail exactly what benefits immigrants can and cannot claim.

Majic, that is not being an apologist for anything; it is stating the facts and providing the full information.

Like others, you both obviously don't like these facts because they interfere with your prejudices.

You have swallowed the anti immigrant line on benefits hook, line and sinker.

Do you want examples from those who have been on the ground to perhaps open your eyes OR do you want to believe what you are told by governments who have lost control of stuff that the UK tax payer is paying for ?

[7by7]

I have already asked you, Transam, for examples of the loopholes you claim exist; TWICE!

You have yet to provide any.

The, political, government's line is that immigrants are bleeding the country dry by claiming benefits; it is you who believes them.

The actual rules and regulations say differently, but Cameron wont tell people that as it interferes with his party line.

[Jay Sata]

I have already asked you, Transam, for examples of the loopholes you claim exist; TWICE!

You have yet to provide any.

The, political, government's line is that immigrants are bleeding the country dry by claiming benefits; it is you who believes them.

The actual rules and regulations say differently, but Cameron wont tell people that as it interferes with his party line.

You don't consider schools,hospitals etc benefits?

You think it's OK that someone who joins the club after five years here gets the same as a person who was born here and worked for the last 40 years?

Our primary schools are bursting at the seems and the same goes for secondary education. Hospitals and A and E in particular cannot cope.

GP''s are overloaded and we need millions of new houses. For what?

Mass uncontrolled immigration under the last disastrous government and a huge spike in the birth rate.

So who is paying for all this much needed infrastructure 7by7?

Where is all the money coming from and for who?

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been deleted. Please stay on topic and refrain from making remarks about other posters.

[7by7]

Sata, Cameron is not talking about schools and hospitals, but you should check up on the proposed measures to restrict NHS access. I'd post a link, but you don't like those.

Are you seriously suggesting that children should be denied an education merely because one or both of their parents is an immigrant? Even though at least one of their parents is probably working and paying tax and NICs?

If someone has been living and working in the UK, paying UK taxes and NICs or is the family member of one such; why should they not receive whatever benefits, including school for their children and NHS treatment, that their taxes and NICs currently entitle them to; whether they or their partner have paid those taxes and NICs for 5 years or 40?

Follow your logic and British people, born and raised in the UK, would not be entitled to anything until they had paid in for 40 years! Is that what you propose?

I asked a similar question many posts ago; no one has answered. Will you?

Edited September 10, 2013 by 7by7

[transam]

Sata, Cameron is not talking about schools and hospitals, but you should check up on the proposed measures to restrict NHS access. I'd post a link, but you don't like those.

Are you seriously suggesting that children should be denied an education merely because one or both of their parents is an immigrant? Even though at least one of their parents is probably working and paying tax and NICs?

If someone has been living and working in the UK, paying UK taxes and NICs or is the family member of one such; why should they not receive whatever benefits, including school for their children and NHS treatment, that their taxes and NICs currently entitle them to; whether they or their partner have paid those taxes and NICs for 5 years or 40?

Follow your logic and British people, born and raised in the UK, would not be entitled to anything until they had paid in for 40 years! Is that what you propose?

I asked a similar question many posts ago; no one has answered. Will you?

I cannot answer that for fear of flaming or something. Do you not realise that foreign folk creep into the UK, have a child SO EVERYTHING is then on a UK plate. I have HEARD it from those who have done it.

[7by7]

I've asked you three times now for examples, you still have not provided anything except to now say that you have heard of someone doing something!

So your whole argument is based upon mere hearsay.

[transam]

I've asked you three times now for examples, you still have not provided anything except to now say that you have heard of someone doing something!

So your whole argument is based upon mere hearsay.

You will say I made it up, cannot prove it.