Better Sex Please: We're Thai

[kat]

So I as a US National in Thailand would rate about a 100% satisfaction (64.2 + 35.9)

Top 5 - all European/white

Bottom 5 - all Asian

I wonder if there's a bias to how the survey was done?

Not all countries in the top 5 are homogeneously white.

> A sex expert says the findings show cultures with relationships based on

> equality offer more satisfaction for both genders.

CHRIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Really? How does that show from a survey? I might as well argue that the findings show that they suck at performing cross-cultural, cross-language surveys!

Or, I might conclude that Australian women feel more 'social' pressure to claim they get good sex even when they don't, whereas in many Asian cultures, the social pressure favours modesty, even when they string up a different hot guy upside down in the basment every night.

"Wow".

Survey people and pseudo-statistical scientists: Shoot on sight!

You think Thai females are stringing up a hot guy in the basement here every night? Maybe they're stringing someone up somewhere, but statistically, the majority certainly are not "hot".

And as for how they could reach the equaltiy conclusion, that has nothing to do with cross-cultural language. As jdinasia mentioned, it has more to do with questions, samples, and consistency. The point about equality is obvious, if their claims and numbers are in fact correct and consistent.

[h90]

mine is not about ghosts, but also to wake me up many times .

As you I need 8 hours uninterrupted.

this may not be related but ...does anyone know why i'm always so tired in the morning?

I don’t about you but I am tired because of Ghosts. She wakes me up in the middle of the night because she has a dream about Ghosts and grabs me because she is afraid. I tell her to have a glass of water. She says nooooo. I tell her to have a beer and peppers and garlic or hot sausage. She says noooo. I suggest we may have some whisky left. Nooooo. Then of course I have to take a shower. I say I don’t need a shower I just want to sleep. She says sternly, by ab nam.

So by the time I get to sleep my rest has been broken up into two nights. I really like to sleep uninterrupted for about 8 hours.

I know since she is Thai she doesn’t like sex. The only thing I can think of is she wants to keep trying until she figures out how to enjoy it.

It could be worse at least with the amount of garlic she eats we never get bothered by vampires.

[Donz]

So I as a US National in Thailand would rate about a 100% satisfaction (64.2 + 35.9)

Top 5 - all European/white

Bottom 5 - all Asian

I wonder if there's a bias to how the survey was done?

Not all countries in the top 5 are homogeneously white.

> A sex expert says the findings show cultures with relationships based on

> equality offer more satisfaction for both genders.

CHRIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Really? How does that show from a survey? I might as well argue that the findings show that they suck at performing cross-cultural, cross-language surveys!

Or, I might conclude that Australian women feel more 'social' pressure to claim they get good sex even when they don't, whereas in many Asian cultures, the social pressure favours modesty, even when they string up a different hot guy upside down in the basment every night.

"Wow".

Survey people and pseudo-statistical scientists: Shoot on sight!

You think Thai females are stringing up a hot guy in the basement here every night? Maybe they're stringing someone up somewhere, but statistically, the majority certainly are not "hot".

And as for how they could reach the equaltiy conclusion, that has nothing to do with cross-cultural language. As jdinasia mentioned, it has more to do with questions, samples, and consistency. The point about equality is obvious, if their claims and numbers are in fact correct and consistent.

Nah most surveys are BS anyways.

And what you mean by majority not hot? is that just your opinion? and Alot of thai girls are stringing someone up somewhere

[bino]

4 minutes? what sort of men did they did they survey

Would be interesting to see what girls they asked in Thailand.

Like was it mostly bar girls or girls with normal jobs

The answer is here....

...which ranks 29 countries in order of sexual satisfaction among 40-to-80-year-olds.

I can't imagine a high percentage of BG's in this group!

[Plus]

Geez, women still have sex after 40?!?

No wonder men are not satisfied with them.

This age bracket puts forward more questions about the survey - Thai men are likely to have sex with youger women, perhaps even more often than with their wives. Thai women might also have different opinions on performance of younger guys, but opportunities are limited. How does that reflect on their satisfaction?

[h90]

Geez, women still have sex after 40?!?

for that Viagra is made

[Donz]

40-80? well that explains this whole survey.

A worthless survey.

[chuchok]

4 minutes? Geez that means ive gotta do it twice

four for me.

[wolf5370]

So ... how offensive IS this topic for you guys married to TG's?

Not a bit - we're both under 40

I'd be more interested in 18-40 figures (and numbers too )

[soic]

I'm sure that survey is slanted and skewed to recieve a desired result. Although I believe that it would be fair to say that sex here is more male pleasure oriented. I haven't seen many Thai ladies on the troll for Farangs for sexual gratification. I know that many do search for us Farang, but I'm sure that for the most part, it's for the size of our wallets, not the size of our ..... That being said, I myself am married to a 40 year old Thai lady and I'm 43. I've discovered that with sex, you get as much out of sex as you put into it. For me, I actually recieve my greatest pleasure from pleasing her and in turn, when I've pleased her, she goes out of her way to please me. It has worked for us for years. I have to be honest, being here in Iraq tends to influence part of that I'm sure... Working for 4 months straight, when I'm home and I can get it, I want to make sex last as long as possible. 3 weeks together every 4 months doesn't give us a chance to graduate into hall sex or to become complacent with each other.

[jamman]

This is a subject I wonder about sometimes, but it is too delicate to bring up with either men or women. I'm a frequent and long time session fan, and I know lots of guys are similar, and 90% of women I've been with are similar (though this may just be because I'm attracted to sex pots), so these survey results seem unreal to me. I know that all men and women vary in their sexual appetites, and the chemistry between individuals also makes a huge difference, but sex for under 10 minutes as an average has only been reported to me once. Most people I meet can tell their stories of long and wild sessions. So to this day, I don't know what is really going on out there. I know what I prefer though - lots of long lasting passion. I think about it and how to foster it, and may try to write about that. Chi kung helps, as does chemistry, keeping fit, having a lover who excites you physically, being the empowered Daddy and she being also empowered an uninhibited, etc. It seems so powerful and big a part of life to give over only 10 minutes to. I really wonder.

Edited April 21, 2006 by jamman

[cdnvic]

Most people I meet can tell their stories of long and wild sessions.

It's a subject on which few will brag about their speed

I doubt any of the time estimates are that accurate. When to they start timing? Forplay, or otherwise? If its any good, who's worried about scoring points on a clock anyway?

cv

[kat]

Geez, women still have sex after 40?!?

for that Viagra is made

Acutally, no, it isn't. Viagra is made for men over 40 who can't perform as well without it, regardless of their sexual partner. We women actually hit our peak a lot later than men, and that lasts well after 40, unlike you men

... That being said, I myself am married to a 40 year old Thai lady and I'm 43. I've discovered that with sex, you get as much out of sex as you put into it. For me, I actually recieve my greatest pleasure from pleasing her and in turn, when I've pleased her, she goes out of her way to please me. ...

Congratulations - a man who actually understands sex with a woman, rather than a girl at least 15-20 years younger, who in most cases is probably faking it.

Edited April 21, 2006 by kat

[kat]

Nah most surveys are BS anyways.

And what you mean by majority not hot? is that just your opinion? and Alot of thai girls are stringing someone up somewhere

ho hum, yawn.

There are "official" numbers that are occassionally reported by immigration on the number of foreign, expats residing in the Kingdom, and other specifics. They are all overwhelmingly male amounting to more than 75%, and they are overwhelmingly way past their prime, closer to retirement age.

But hey, as you say, most surveys are BS. I can simply look around.

[cdnvic]

That could account for the survey targeting people 40+. The 18-40s would have widely varying levels of experience, some little or none, where those over forty would for the most part, have attained a level of experience that would give them something to make an informed judgement on.

cv

[kat]

Well this is the last line in the article which explains their target group:

"The maker of Viagra paid for the study".

But what the survey does tell us is that among countries in the same age group, certain countries finish last, so to speak. Last year, there was a durex survey that reported Thailand as the most satisfied, but again, you have to know what they asked and who they asked. You also have to look at the company's business and what they would stand to gain from such a report.

[OZONE]

This is a subject I wonder about sometimes, but it is too delicate to bring up with either men or women. I'm a frequent and long time session fan, and I know lots of guys are similar, and 90% of women I've been with are similar (though this may just be because I'm attracted to sex pots), so these survey results seem unreal to me. I know that all men and women vary in their sexual appetites, and the chemistry between individuals also makes a huge difference, but sex for under 10 minutes as an average has only been reported to me once. Most people I meet can tell their stories of long and wild sessions. So to this day, I don't know what is really going on out there. I know what I prefer though - lots of long lasting passion. I think about it and how to foster it, and may try to write about that. Chi kung helps, as does chemistry, keeping fit, having a lover who excites you physically, being the empowered Daddy and she being also empowered an uninhibited, etc. It seems so powerful and big a part of life to give over only 10 minutes to. I really wonder.

You don't really believe them do you?.

Anyone bragging about their sexual logeivity generally last only minutes. These guys are also known as "minuteman". They need to hide their inability to prolong their sex drive so they resort to bragging.

[mark45y]

Geez, women still have sex after 40?!?

for that Viagra is made

Acutally, no, it isn't. Viagra is made for men over 40 who can't perform as well without it, regardless of their sexual partner. We women actually hit our peak a lot later than men, and that lasts well after 40, unlike you men

... That being said, I myself am married to a 40 year old Thai lady and I'm 43. I've discovered that with sex, you get as much out of sex as you put into it. For me, I actually recieve my greatest pleasure from pleasing her and in turn, when I've pleased her, she goes out of her way to please me. ...

Congratulations - a man who actually understands sex with a woman, rather than a girl at least 15-20 years younger, who in most cases is probably faking it.

INMHO a man reaches his prime when that curve of money, sex and power both physical mental and business and or political reaches it’s highest potential. If you are to say that age is the determining factor of primness in a male then you are in the same boat as the men who are attracted to Thai women 20 or more years younger than themselves.

I have a few of questions.

1. What determines a male in his prime?

2. Lets say the guy is 60 and the woman is 15 years younger, that makes her 45 would you call her a girl as opposed to a woman?

3. Is a woman more attractive at 20 than at 40 as a general rule?

4. Is a man more attractive at 20 or 40 as a general rule (a man at twenty is not going to have much education, money, culture or experience. A man at 40 will probably have those things)?

5. What are successful men looking for in a woman. Are they more inclined to have a beautiful young sex partner i.e. trophy wife or a older seasoned good conversationalist who would is embarrassed by sex but looks as proper as Margaret Thatcher?

[kat]

Interesting. Not one word from the likes of you when there is plenty of derisive - and scientifically incorrect - assumptions regarding women's biology, but state one unfortunate biological fact about men and I get the 5 question treatment. No problem, at least I lured you out here.

Let me start by saying that what I am attracted to personally in a man, is quite different than the strict subject heading of this thread. The subject matter here is SEX, and the quality or lack thereof. It is an undisputed and widely known fact that men reach their sexual peak as late teens/early adults, and women enter that stage in their late 20s/early 30s, and plateau afterwards. This was in response to the insipid comments about women/viagra, and the assumption that women after 40 are asexual or undesirable. Actually, unlike men at this age - generally speaking of course - women are much more likely to be piping hot, and at the peak of their sexual game.

I know, I know - according to most TV men, all women - especially Western - are absolute ghosts or dogs that no one ever thinks about, except to denigrate on TV. Let me remember to remind my thirty-something and forty-something friends in New York who are married or shagging men much younger on a regular basis MEN, who are sane, with their own jobs and bank accounts, I might add

As for my personal tastes, well, I like men who are secure around intelligent, vibrant, economically independent, and unapologetically sexual women. That could be just about any age under the better part of 50, as long as he is fit in body and mind. In my experience however, most of the men who fit this description are mid-thirties and under. It really has nothing to do with his sexual peak, or "prime" as you describe, i.e. bank account/status, but more about who he is as a man.

In the West, women have reached a point where we can go get status/power/wealth ourselves. We don't define men as in their "prime" according to his economic status/power. That is something that men past their physical prime tend to stress, lol, not us. I really don't care if a man is in his "prime" or not, just how he makes me feel, both in and out of bed; well, that, and whether or not he has a big, fat potbelly. Full stop.

If I may, let me ask you some questions (rhetorical, of coure - hey, at least I'm honest):

1. What is the age and gender of the major consumer group of viagra?

2. A woman of 45 is a woman of 45. Let's say a woman is 45 and looks, feels, and has the libido of 30. Would you call him *(a man of 60 or over) a compatible sexual partner as opposed to a partner with a bank account?

3. Do some men merely see females as sexual objects and commodities as a general rule? Breaking news -- some men are turned on by a combination of things rather than strictly body parts. Is there really a general rule, anyway - after all, some women are good age decoys, as per another general rule. Up to you.

4. A man is more attractive at all ages, if he is in fact an attractive man, lol. He will be a catch at 20,30, 40, 50, and probably still make younger women wonder at 60. And here's another news flash for you -- it has less to do with his status, education, or bank account -- it meaning, TRUE sexuality, or sexual attraction.

*Unless of course, you are Hugh Hefner. If you are, then you can buy all the empty, bimbo, plastic, commodified, and sexual/romantic entrepreneurs that you so desire, and so deserve.

5. "Successful" men come in all forms, tastes, and backgrounds. And they define sexy and attractive in as many diverse ways. I know that times have never been better for successful women after 35 in the West. Let me ask you: In your experience, are all seasoned, intelligent female conversationalists over 35 embarrassed by sex and look like Margaret Thatcher?

*edit

Edited April 21, 2006 by kat

[wolf5370]

I know, I know - according to most TV men, all women - especially Western - are absolute ghosts or dogs that no one ever thinks about, except to denigrate on TV.

now, now, Kat, I think most TV men is a little strong, some perhaps yeah (maybe the most vocal - the rest of us avoid those threads like the plague).

I agree with you about the sexual peak age mismatch between sexes - God's little joke I think.

PS: Woman do use Viagra, its supposed to increase the blood flow and increase the pleasure. Of course, this is out of choice rather than a necessity - but a fair percentage of male users and not on it to raise the flag, but to keep it flying

[a2396]

this may not be related but ...does anyone know why i'm always so tired in the morning?

I don’t about you but I am tired because of Ghosts. She wakes me up in the middle of the night because she has a dream about Ghosts and grabs me because she is afraid. I tell her to have a glass of water. She says nooooo. I tell her to have a beer and peppers and garlic or hot sausage. She says noooo. I suggest we may have some whisky left. Nooooo. Then of course I have to take a shower. I say I don’t need a shower I just want to sleep. She says sternly, by ab nam.

So by the time I get to sleep my rest has been broken up into two nights. I really like to sleep uninterrupted for about 8 hours.

I know since she is Thai she doesn’t like sex. The only thing I can think of is she wants to keep trying until she figures out how to enjoy it.

It could be worse at least with the amount of garlic she eats we never get bothered by vampires.

How old is your lady?

[a2396]

I definately think there is a problem with the sexual responsiveness of thai women, at least the ones I have known. I am not talking about bar girls and those involved in the sex industry, which is a whole different ball game. It seems many of the women do not like kissing (mouth kissing) and do not really know what foreplay is about. They are lazy or non-participatory when it comes to love making. I assume this is what they are used to with Thai men. There is little opportunity for discussion of sexual matters with these women, because it is not generally an accepted topic for dialogue. I do think the younger women (under 30) are a bit more liberated and responsive, but this depends on many other factors. It also seems that the money ingredient is a great icebreaker as well - more money, more honey (& happiness). I previously had a Malaysian Chinese wife, who was 21 when I met her. She did not have any inhibitions or restrictions, such as I have found to be common in Thai women. Thai women are beautiful in appearance, but in performance it is sometimes a different story.

[OlRedEyes]

Interesting. Not one word from the likes of you when there is plenty of derisive - and scientifically incorrect - assumptions regarding women's biology, but state one unfortunate biological fact about men and I get the 5 question treatment. No problem, at least I lured you out here.

Let me start by saying that what I am attracted to personally in a man, is quite different than the strict subject heading of this thread. The subject matter here is SEX, and the quality or lack thereof. It is an undisputed and widely known fact that men reach their sexual peak as late teens/early adults, and women enter that stage in their late 20s/early 30s, and plateau afterwards. This was in response to the insipid comments about women/viagra, and the assumption that women after 40 are asexual or undesirable. Actually, unlike men at this age - generally speaking of course - women are much more likely to be piping hot, and at the peak of their sexual game.

I know, I know - according to most TV men, all women - especially Western - are absolute ghosts or dogs that no one ever thinks about, except to denigrate on TV. Let me remember to remind my thirty-something and forty-something friends in New York who are married or shagging men much younger on a regular basis MEN, who are sane, with their own jobs and bank accounts, I might add

As for my personal tastes, well, I like men who are secure around intelligent, vibrant, economically independent, and unapologetically sexual women. That could be just about any age under the better part of 50, as long as he is fit in body and mind. In my experience however, most of the men who fit this description are mid-thirties and under. It really has nothing to do with his sexual peak, or "prime" as you describe, i.e. bank account/status, but more about who he is as a man.

In the West, women have reached a point where we can go get status/power/wealth ourselves. We don't define men as in their "prime" according to his economic status/power. That is something that men past their physical prime tend to stress, lol, not us. I really don't care if a man is in his "prime" or not, just how he makes me feel, both in and out of bed; well, that, and whether or not he has a big, fat potbelly. Full stop.

If I may, let me ask you some questions (rhetorical, of coure - hey, at least I'm honest):

1. What is the age and gender of the major consumer group of viagra?

2. A woman of 45 is a woman of 45. Let's say a woman is 45 and looks, feels, and has the libido of 30. Would you call him *(a man of 60 or over) a compatible sexual partner as opposed to a partner with a bank account?

3. Do some men merely see females as sexual objects and commodities as a general rule? Breaking news -- some men are turned on by a combination of things rather than strictly body parts. Is there really a general rule, anyway - after all, some women are good age decoys, as per another general rule. Up to you.

4. A man is more attractive at all ages, if he is in fact an attractive man, lol. He will be a catch at 20,30, 40, 50, and probably still make younger women wonder at 60. And here's another news flash for you -- it has less to do with his status, education, or bank account -- it meaning, TRUE sexuality, or sexual attraction.

*Unless of course, you are Hugh Hefner. If you are, then you can buy all the empty, bimbo, plastic, commodified, and sexual/romantic entrepreneurs that you so desire, and so deserve.

5. "Successful" men come in all forms, tastes, and backgrounds. And they define sexy and attractive in as many diverse ways. I know that times have never been better for successful women after 35 in the West. Let me ask you: In your experience, are all seasoned, intelligent female conversationalists over 35 embarrassed by sex and look like Margaret Thatcher?

*edit

Your posts always remind me of what I admire in (some) Western women. And what I miss most.

[Dustoff]

Geez, women still have sex after 40?!?

for that Viagra is made

Acutally, no, it isn't. Viagra is made for men over 40 who can't perform as well without it, regardless of their sexual partner. We women actually hit our peak a lot later than men, and that lasts well after 40, unlike you men

... That being said, I myself am married to a 40 year old Thai lady and I'm 43. I've discovered that with sex, you get as much out of sex as you put into it. For me, I actually recieve my greatest pleasure from pleasing her and in turn, when I've pleased her, she goes out of her way to please me. ...

Congratulations - a man who actually understands sex with a woman, rather than a girl at least 15-20 years younger, who in most cases is probably faking it.

Interesting comments! My attitude matches that of soic in that "the woman always comes first" so to speak; and I cannot imagine the total sensual/sexual interlude lasting less than an hour and I would consider that a "quickie". And can any guy really be fooled by a woman who is "faking it"?? I suppose that is possible but the guy would have to be REALLY not paying attention, or care, eh?

Viagra? I don't think so. While men peak sexually earlier than women, they can go on to perform quite well into their nineties while women go on the downslide usually when menopause intervenes.

I think that a 40-80 age group survey is certainly slanted toward the sale of Viagra especially when they financed the whole thing. My wife and I are within and outside of that group; she is just turning 36 and I am 65 years of age. We have been together exactly five years now and while I suppose that I am more limited in my aerobic abilities, I make up for it in tact, tenderness and staying power. And if my wife does not like sex, she has one hel_l of a way of showing it since I am the one who has to insist on restraint if only for our mutual well-being.

Generalizations and surveys kinda suck anyway, don't they? There are certainly many exceptions to every rule...

[mark45y]

this may not be related but ...does anyone know why i'm always so tired in the morning?

I don’t about you but I am tired because of Ghosts. She wakes me up in the middle of the night because she has a dream about Ghosts and grabs me because she is afraid. I tell her to have a glass of water. She says nooooo. I tell her to have a beer and peppers and garlic or hot sausage. She says noooo. I suggest we may have some whisky left. Nooooo. Then of course I have to take a shower. I say I don’t need a shower I just want to sleep. She says sternly, by ab nam.

So by the time I get to sleep my rest has been broken up into two nights. I really like to sleep uninterrupted for about 8 hours.

I know since she is Thai she doesn’t like sex. The only thing I can think of is she wants to keep trying until she figures out how to enjoy it.

It could be worse at least with the amount of garlic she eats we never get bothered by vampires.

How old is your lady?

Old lady is 37

[mark45y]

Interesting. Not one word from the likes of you when there is plenty of derisive - and scientifically incorrect - assumptions regarding women's biology, but state one unfortunate biological fact about men and I get the 5 question treatment. No problem, at least I lured you out here.

Let me start by saying that what I am attracted to personally in a man, is quite different than the strict subject heading of this thread. The subject matter here is SEX, and the quality or lack thereof. It is an undisputed and widely known fact that men reach their sexual peak as late teens/early adults, and women enter that stage in their late 20s/early 30s, and plateau afterwards. This was in response to the insipid comments about women/viagra, and the assumption that women after 40 are asexual or undesirable. Actually, unlike men at this age - generally speaking of course - women are much more likely to be piping hot, and at the peak of their sexual game.

I know, I know - according to most TV men, all women - especially Western - are absolute ghosts or dogs that no one ever thinks about, except to denigrate on TV. Let me remember to remind my thirty-something and forty-something friends in New York who are married or shagging men much younger on a regular basis MEN, who are sane, with their own jobs and bank accounts, I might add

As for my personal tastes, well, I like men who are secure around intelligent, vibrant, economically independent, and unapologetically sexual women. That could be just about any age under the better part of 50, as long as he is fit in body and mind. In my experience however, most of the men who fit this description are mid-thirties and under. It really has nothing to do with his sexual peak, or "prime" as you describe, i.e. bank account/status, but more about who he is as a man.

In the West, women have reached a point where we can go get status/power/wealth ourselves. We don't define men as in their "prime" according to his economic status/power. That is something that men past their physical prime tend to stress, lol, not us. I really don't care if a man is in his "prime" or not, just how he makes me feel, both in and out of bed; well, that, and whether or not he has a big, fat potbelly. Full stop.

If I may, let me ask you some questions (rhetorical, of coure - hey, at least I'm honest):

1. What is the age and gender of the major consumer group of viagra?

2. A woman of 45 is a woman of 45. Let's say a woman is 45 and looks, feels, and has the libido of 30. Would you call him *(a man of 60 or over) a compatible sexual partner as opposed to a partner with a bank account?

3. Do some men merely see females as sexual objects and commodities as a general rule? Breaking news -- some men are turned on by a combination of things rather than strictly body parts. Is there really a general rule, anyway - after all, some women are good age decoys, as per another general rule. Up to you.

4. A man is more attractive at all ages, if he is in fact an attractive man, lol. He will be a catch at 20,30, 40, 50, and probably still make younger women wonder at 60. And here's another news flash for you -- it has less to do with his status, education, or bank account -- it meaning, TRUE sexuality, or sexual attraction.

*Unless of course, you are Hugh Hefner. If you are, then you can buy all the empty, bimbo, plastic, commodified, and sexual/romantic entrepreneurs that you so desire, and so deserve.

5. "Successful" men come in all forms, tastes, and backgrounds. And they define sexy and attractive in as many diverse ways. I know that times have never been better for successful women after 35 in the West. Let me ask you: In your experience, are all seasoned, intelligent female conversationalists over 35 embarrassed by sex and look like Margaret Thatcher?

*edit

Dear Kat,

The last year I lived in Farang land I dated four women. One was 18, one 22, one 44, and one 51. The 51 and 44 year old were in the mood all of the time. The 22 year old was technically the best but was moody and wildly unpredictable. The 18 year old used me as emotional support to fall back on when one of her boyfriends dumped her. They were all slim and in shape.

My 37 year old in Thailand goes through streaks. For two weeks she can think of nothing else and wears me down and for another two weeks she is unconcerned and only asks to make sure I am content.

I am not much of a chubby chaser and have only dated a couple of heavy women. One I should have married. She was a real sweatheart, quite famous in her field (mathmetics) and an important political member of the community. From my experience chubby women work more on their personalities but I could not quite get my head around the mounds of flesh that accompanied all the brains and charm.

I know a lot of men in the West. I know a lot of women in the West. The chances of a woman finding a decent man to marry after 40 are less than getting hit by lightening. A decent guy at 40 has women to choose from 20 to 50. I think Western women have a better chance in Thailand especially if they want an in shape guy.

One of the things I noticed and it was always a source of amazement to me, was that every year after 18 I just had more women to pick from and this continued till I was 45 and then it began to narrow. I remember the first night it hit me. I was in a disco and asked a young woman to dance and she said “not tonight gramps.“ What a shock.

So I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. It has been my experience it is very difficult for a woman over 40 and especially 50 to find a decent husband anywhere in the world not just Farang land.

It has also been my experience that women over the age of 25 begin to put more weight on the bank account than hair or pot belly. Normally people are matched. Ugly women with ugly men and so on. I have never seen a great beauty with an ugly poor guy.

I have a nephew who was the ugliest kid in the world. He grew up to be the ugliest man in the world. He was so ugly as a kid he was cute. He was also one of the nicest people young people I had ever met. He started championship bull riding when he was 13 and worked his way through college managing 3000 head of cattle. By the time he was 25 he had a new 4000 square foot house paid for and owned a sizeable ranch. He has a beautiful wife. Really beyond beautiful she is breathtaking. She saw through his uglyness to his brains, personality and bankroll.

You are right about in the West, women have reached a point where we can go get status/power/wealth themselves.

But they have not reached it without cost. The cost was the family and their femininity. You haven’t been around long enough to notice the change. If you have lived 60 years you have seen the difference. I don’t make a value judgement about that. I guess it was inevitable.

Viagra. I used to use Viagra in the states. I don’t use Viagra in Thailand. I don’t really know why. My sexual activities were greater in the States than they are here and included more partners that might be the reason. Or it might be another reason I am not aware of like stress reduction in Thailand.

To answer your question I would say that the major users of Viagra are over 50 year old men living in the West. It has been my experience that Viagra use is much less in Thailand. I don’t mean the sex pats but the men who live here. I don’t think they have the same kind of pressure to perform as in the West. This includes performance in a lot of different areas including business and personal life. Plus they eat less potatoes which my Thai male friends tell me kills performance.

“2. A woman of 45 is a woman of 45. Let's say a woman is 45 and looks, feels, and has the libido of 30. Would you call him *(a man of 60 or over) a compatible sexual partner as opposed to a partner with a bank account?” I didn’t understand this question perhaps you could re phrase it.

Do men really see females as sexual objects? No they don’t in the West. Do they see women as sexual objects in Thailand? Yes. They of course would not tell a Western woman that. You can’t even mention it on a Western forum and stay politically correct. There is an often discussed niche market for punters here that preys on Western women. There are forums where this is discussed and the men trade stories about how to make the Western females feel right at home in Thailand.

I am turned on by a combination of things to use your words not just body parts? Yes, but I don’t think I am normal in that sense. I see man after man being dragged around by these little beautiful young things every day.

I have a clean house, well prepared meals, a liberal and vaired sex life, a structured budget and a calm and stress free environment. I miss the intellectual stimulation and the discussions about books and politics. But I have the internet and it seems a friend from Australia, the UK or North America pops along every month or so and we visit and chat. Also the tremendous variety of my days in Thailand seeing so many things that are interesting makes up for it.

About being Hugh Hefner. I read a tell all book from one of his girlfriends. Apparently to be the playmate of the year you have to sleep with him. So if you want to see a list of his sex partners you just have to look at the playmates of the year for 40 years or so. Now at 78 or so he has sex with 12 women on Wendays and Fridays nights. Then he gets checked by a doctor. His main girlfriend is 22. Would I want to do that? Wait until I am 78 and ask me. I almost think it would be more like committing suicide than having sex. I only read Playboy for the articles anyway.

“Let me ask you: In your experience, are all seasoned, intelligent female conversationalists over 35 embarrassed by sex and look like Margaret Thatcher?”

No they are not.

To be honest I am a little afraid of talking to 35 year old Western women. I prefer 50 year old Western women. They have a little (not much but a little) understanding and compassion for the changes that have happened in the West that have negatively effected Western men. I find that under 50 so many things are assumed to have always been that way that no one appreciates the trauma that is inflicted on society now that was not a trauma in the last generation.

[kat]

I know, I know - according to most TV men, all women - especially Western - are absolute ghosts or dogs that no one ever thinks about, except to denigrate on TV.

now, now, Kat, I think most TV men is a little strong, some perhaps yeah (maybe the most vocal - the rest of us avoid those threads like the plague).

I agree with you about the sexual peak age mismatch between sexes - God's little joke I think.

PS: Woman do use Viagra, its supposed to increase the blood flow and increase the pleasure. Of course, this is out of choice rather than a necessity - but a fair percentage of male users and not on it to raise the flag, but to keep it flying

ok, fair enough Wolf.

Your posts always remind me of what I admire in (some) Western women. And what I miss most.

Thanks very much, Red Eyes. That was a very sweet and much-missed comment. I often start out a little strong on this forum, only because I am expecting and preparing for the worse. But there's always someone like you who comes out and surprises me. Thanks for that

[kat]

Dear Kat,

The last year I lived in Farang land I dated four women. One was 18, one 22, one 44, and one 51. The 51 and 44 year old were in the mood all of the time. The 22 year old was technically the best but was moody and wildly unpredictable. The 18 year old used me as emotional support to fall back on when one of her boyfriends dumped her. They were all slim and in shape.

My 37 year old in Thailand goes through streaks. For two weeks she can think of nothing else and wears me down and for another two weeks she is unconcerned and only asks to make sure I am content.

I am not much of a chubby chaser and have only dated a couple of heavy women. One I should have married. She was a real sweatheart, quite famous in her field (mathmetics) and an important political member of the community. From my experience chubby women work more on their personalities but I could not quite get my head around the mounds of flesh that accompanied all the brains and charm.

I know a lot of men in the West. I know a lot of women in the West. The chances of a woman finding a decent man to marry after 40 are less than getting hit by lightening. A decent guy at 40 has women to choose from 20 to 50. I think Western women have a better chance in Thailand especially if they want an in shape guy.

One of the things I noticed and it was always a source of amazement to me, was that every year after 18 I just had more women to pick from and this continued till I was 45 and then it began to narrow. I remember the first night it hit me. I was in a disco and asked a young woman to dance and she said “not tonight gramps.“ What a shock.

So I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. It has been my experience it is very difficult for a woman over 40 and especially 50 to find a decent husband anywhere in the world not just Farang land.

It has also been my experience that women over the age of 25 begin to put more weight on the bank account than hair or pot belly. Normally people are matched. Ugly women with ugly men and so on. I have never seen a great beauty with an ugly poor guy.

I have a nephew who was the ugliest kid in the world. He grew up to be the ugliest man in the world. He was so ugly as a kid he was cute. He was also one of the nicest people young people I had ever met. He started championship bull riding when he was 13 and worked his way through college managing 3000 head of cattle. By the time he was 25 he had a new 4000 square foot house paid for and owned a sizeable ranch. He has a beautiful wife. Really beyond beautiful she is breathtaking. She saw through his uglyness to his brains, personality and bankroll.

You are right about in the West, women have reached a point where we can go get status/power/wealth themselves.

But they have not reached it without cost. The cost was the family and their femininity. You haven’t been around long enough to notice the change. If you have lived 60 years you have seen the difference. I don’t make a value judgement about that. I guess it was inevitable.

Viagra. I used to use Viagra in the states. I don’t use Viagra in Thailand. I don’t really know why. My sexual activities were greater in the States than they are here and included more partners that might be the reason. Or it might be another reason I am not aware of like stress reduction in Thailand.

To answer your question I would say that the major users of Viagra are over 50 year old men living in the West. It has been my experience that Viagra use is much less in Thailand. I don’t mean the sex pats but the men who live here. I don’t think they have the same kind of pressure to perform as in the West. This includes performance in a lot of different areas including business and personal life. Plus they eat less potatoes which my Thai male friends tell me kills performance.

“2. A woman of 45 is a woman of 45. Let's say a woman is 45 and looks, feels, and has the libido of 30. Would you call him *(a man of 60 or over) a compatible sexual partner as opposed to a partner with a bank account?” I didn’t understand this question perhaps you could re phrase it.

Do men really see females as sexual objects? No they don’t in the West. Do they see women as sexual objects in Thailand? Yes. They of course would not tell a Western woman that. You can’t even mention it on a Western forum and stay politically correct. There is an often discussed niche market for punters here that preys on Western women. There are forums where this is discussed and the men trade stories about how to make the Western females feel right at home in Thailand.

I am turned on by a combination of things to use your words not just body parts? Yes, but I don’t think I am normal in that sense. I see man after man being dragged around by these little beautiful young things every day.

I have a clean house, well prepared meals, a liberal and vaired sex life, a structured budget and a calm and stress free environment. I miss the intellectual stimulation and the discussions about books and politics. But I have the internet and it seems a friend from Australia, the UK or North America pops along every month or so and we visit and chat. Also the tremendous variety of my days in Thailand seeing so many things that are interesting makes up for it.

About being Hugh Hefner. I read a tell all book from one of his girlfriends. Apparently to be the playmate of the year you have to sleep with him. So if you want to see a list of his sex partners you just have to look at the playmates of the year for 40 years or so. Now at 78 or so he has sex with 12 women on Wendays and Fridays nights. Then he gets checked by a doctor. His main girlfriend is 22. Would I want to do that? Wait until I am 78 and ask me. I almost think it would be more like committing suicide than having sex. I only read Playboy for the articles anyway.

“Let me ask you: In your experience, are all seasoned, intelligent female conversationalists over 35 embarrassed by sex and look like Margaret Thatcher?”

No they are not.

To be honest I am a little afraid of talking to 35 year old Western women. I prefer 50 year old Western women. They have a little (not much but a little) understanding and compassion for the changes that have happened in the West that have negatively effected Western men. I find that under 50 so many things are assumed to have always been that way that no one appreciates the trauma that is inflicted on society now that was not a trauma in the last generation.

Mark, you're a bit of a chauvinst, like most of the men above a certain age. But I like and respect you, because you're honest and have obviously lived life on your own terms. Chauvinst attitudes are more of a problem rather than prime/non-prime for a lot of modern women, including those above 50! I have one beautiful, tall, slim, and blond bohemian, hippy-travelling friend who is 51 and has the same problem. Her last long-term, serious relationship was with a man in his early-to mid-thirties. He was madly in love with her, until she ended the relationship last year.

If the truth be told, I've dated a couple of guys with pot bellies, and one who was too short (with whom I probably would've fallen in love with if I didn't leave for graduate school) - hel_l - I've even dated a couple of unrepentant chauvinsts! I don't really plan on dating these physical or personality types, but sometimes it becomes more about the person and chemistry rather than a set of concrete physical or personality traits. Although, I have to say, the chauvinists are particulary grating! And I can't stand this whole line about "women have lost their femininity" blah, blah, blah. I can assure you, my having an education, professional life, and social independence has not changed the base male-to-female response one bit. What has changed is that socially some men are a bit more intimidated, perturbed, or not interested. Fair enough; there are plenty more who are interested, and they seem to be a much better fit. So, the ROLES are changing, because men and women are changing, because society has changed. I can appreciate how this is confusing for a lot of men and women, but I cannot appreciate or tolerate the misogynists and misfits who then use this to villify and degrade women who do not fit their ideal of a "feminine" woman. Most of the time, these ideals are defined by what makes them comfortable in an unquestioned and unchallenged role of a superior, rather than the biology between male and female. (*for example, thinking that behaving like "daddy" is sexy - yeeech!)

Femininity is a cultural construct, and constructs change. Therefore, there is nothing to lose! Women are females, and therefore, the real authenticators of things female - without even trying! I am most "female" when I listen and am true to myself, rather than some pre-packaged expectation of what men expect a female to be. In fact, that kills real femininity, becauses it quashes real female thought and instinct before it can develop into its most confident form. Femininity and masculinity have simply been tweaked and redefined a bit, as the culture has changed. And I think I fair amount of men are reaping the benefit of that change, otherwise we'd still be living in Victorian England or sacraficing the fresh blood of virgin girls to the gods.

I'm also surprised that you found the 22-year-old to be "technically" better than the older women. At that age, I didn't really do anything technical at all. I think the 22-year-old was just technically better for you because she was younger.

About your ugly nephew. Perhaps because of his earlier "limitations" with his appearance, he had to rely on other parts of himself, and most probably acquired an amazing character that helped him to achieve the accomplishments that you mention. This is incredibly sexy to a woman. In fact, I never choose men that are mere objects, but always prefer the self-made, intelligent, or charismatic man. That is probably the case with your nephew. Or maybe it is because he has tons of money - I don't know - because I don't know the kind of woman that he chose. There are plenty of women who view this as the most important feature. My point is that there are also plenty of women who view character, chemistry, and charisma as more important.

Anyway, gotta go. Nice chatting with you.

*edit

Edited April 22, 2006 by kat

[kat]

Oh, and I forgot to respond to one of the most important comments, Mark:

"I know a lot of men in the West. I know a lot of women in the West. The chances of a woman finding a decent man to marry after 40 are less than getting hit by lightening. A decent guy at 40 has women to choose from 20 to 50. I think Western women have a better chance in Thailand especially if they want an in shape guy."

Who the heck said anything about getting married? I decided I wasn't getting married when I was in my early twenties. Trust me, that is not as much of a concern for many women these days.

[mark45y]

It is not modern femininity or sexuality that I am speaking about when I speak of femininity.

Femininity among other things has been used to imply the freedom from certain types of responsibility and roles. War for one and business stress for two and politics for three. War brought about a necessary masculine side to the feminine. Business brought a necessary toughness and aggressiveness and style to the feminine. Politics brought another dimension to the feminine.

As I watched this change I saw what was happening. Birth control did a lot to make it possible. So we now have a new female. Of course she is still feminine but she is not the same. Maybe my choice of words is in error but I think war and business and politics are not feminine concepts.

My daughters grew up to be strong women. They did things and saw things that their grandmother would never have imagined. I don’t want to equate weakness with femininity but in some ways vulnerability and weakness were a part of femininity long ago.

In some ways weakness and vulnerability are attractive and endearing. There is a part of a man that responds to those qualities.

Now it is not cool to be vulnerable and weak.

That I know of, I have saved the lives of 5 or 6 women. Some were strong some were not. Some were just unlucky and in the wrong place at the wrong time. I lost a job once for keeping my mouth shut because of chivalry. I don’t know that I would do the same thing again.

You are right, women are still feminine but they are not feminine in the same way. Maybe it is better it was inevitable at any rate.

I really don’t think the radical feminists have had any impact at all on society as a whole. They are just background noise like a mosquito buzzing. Society as a whole is working its changes through the market place. The changes are economic and inescapable. About the only thing an old dinosaur can do is escape to a third world country where the changes will not arrive until he is dead.

I was surprised about the 22 year old too. I guess like watching Tiger Woods play golf as a young man.

I been around a lot. I thought I knew it all. I thought I had forgotten more about a woman’s passion anatomy than most men ever learned until I met that young woman. She conquered every man and woman she had ever met. She mesmerized them, hypnotized them and then discarded them. For three nights and days she set about the task of teaching me about women. For five minutes I was skeptical. She laughed a lot and played a lot of music and danced a lot. Great courtesans only come along every once in a while. I was certainly not in her league. She left after two years.

Yes I do believe you about your not getting married. I have three good female friends (40-50) who I correspond with at least weekly and they have somehow in the last year become driven to marry. One even asked me to think about it (can you believe that!).

I have noticed a couple of primal urges in women. Children at 30 and a second marriage at 45 to 50.

Seems if you make it to 60 the second marriage urge leaves for sanity again. I have no urge to get married either. Good luck to both of us.