Flight TG669 skids off runway at Suvarnabhumi Airport

[MaxYakov]

Whoops !Interesting comment on Pprune

Quote:

A Thai Airways official, Smud Poom-on, said that blurring the logo after an accident was a recommendation from Star Alliance known as the "crisis communication rule", meant to protect the image of both the airline and other members of Star Alliance.

Well it has not worked as most newspapers are now using this event as part of the story and Thai Airways features in all the headlines.

Indeed it hasn't.The Times (UK) has a frontpage story about the incident, specifically regarding the blacking out of the TG logo.It says "How not to handle a corporate crsis:lesson number one".

Sorry can't link because of paywall.

Incidentally the moronic TG spokesman who put this idiocy down to Star Alliance policy is either a liar or devoid of all commonsense.Star Alliance members include serious airlines like SQ,ANZ, Lufthansa and United - none of which would makle fools of themselves (crappy landing apart) in this all too typical and revealing Thai Inter way

Yesireee, The Times is on it (like paint on a fuselage): http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/

A hat tip to jayboy!

I suppose that after their 'paywall' they want to take over Thai Airways' public relations as well ...

Edited September 9, 2013 by MaxYakov

[ginjag]

Looks like Pilot Error to me....landing too far down the runway so can't stop in time. Can't say things like that though as all the naysayers will be out accusing me of being cleverer than all the aircraft accident experts on the planet and telling me if i don't like Thailand i should go home...yada yada. As if i'm bovvered !

I just drove down to take a look. indeed the plane stopped a long way down the runway to the S end. possibly the pilot swerved to the right to avoid going off the end. the result is the same, stuck in soft soil and keeled over to one side. bizarre that they painted out the logos. if they wanted to disguise the aircraft as not being THAI they would need to have coated the entire body.

Is this aircraft suitable for operation again, as from some pictures it looks as if it could be a scrap job, 18 years and repair I doubt it. Good insurance claim for Thai Airways. The engines are about 25% of the cost of an aircraft thinking about that I doubt if this one is going places again. Spares sure.

[EyesWideOpen]

I like the way reasons for the crash by Thai airways keep getting thrown out.

First attempt ----- the nose wheel failed

Second attempt------ the engine was on fire prior to landing

Third attempt----- the right main landing gear failed

I can hardly wait to see what get thrown out tomorrow.....failed hydraulics ??

Crashes like this one always seem to turn into a bit of a pissing contest between

the carrier, and the aircraft manufacturer , with big money at stake.

The airline clearly wants to show their flight crew was great ( who wants to fly

on a carrier that the pilots fly into the ground) , and the plane

simply failed in some fashion. The manufacturer , with millions of Euros of

future sales at stake ( who wants to buy planes that crash themselves) ,

will try to show their plane was great, it was the operation of it by the carrier

that caused the crash.

[NomadJoe]

Painting over the Thai name and logos is so very Thai. Has any other operator ever done that?

[wpcoe]

It's more a psychological measure so that other passengers from the same airline are not too scared when they see the crashed plane.

This is classic:

Coincidentally, the crashed plane was a flight from BKK to HKG, operated by Mandarin for China Airlines. I had a friend on the flight, and after the movement stopped, and he was suspended upside down, just before he undid his seat belt he turned to his girl friend and said: "This is going to hurt." He was uninjured, though.

[MaxYakov]

Painting over the Thai name and logos is so very Thai. Has any other operator ever done that?

No Way!:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/666553-flight-tg669-skids-off-runway-at-suvarnabhumi-airport/page-7#entry6806046

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/666553-flight-tg669-skids-off-runway-at-suvarnabhumi-airport/page-7#entry6805952

Hat tips to PoorSucker and EyesWideOpen

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I like the way reasons for the crash by Thai airways keep getting thrown out.

First attempt ----- the nose wheel failed

Second attempt------ the engine was on fire prior to landing

Third attempt----- the right main landing gear failed

Three or four different and conflicting explanations from "(ir)relevant authorities" of what led to the crash within less than 24 hours after the incident is a pretty good record, even for Thailand. I'm sure more will surface in the days to come.

The question, of course, is do any of them bear any resemblance to the reality of whatever actually happened.

[bitcoinbob]

only in thailand very thainess

http://www.businessinsider.com/airline-awkwardly-blacks-out-the-logo-of-one-of-its-jets-that-skidded-off-the-runway-2013-9

Edited September 9, 2013 by bitcoinbob

[Briggsy]

If the accident report from the One-Two-Go crash is anything to go by, this incident will be about 3 lines long.

[Bagwan]

Pilot was probably racing the Lufthansa flight due in at about the same time.

I don't think that you know very much about Air Traffic Control. Your suggestion is nonsense.

[nonthaburial]

Flight from China the injured were more than likely standing trying to get there luggage out of the overhead.

moe 666 yes you are probably correct, but their actions were not responsible for the incident. Please note the word incident not accident. General consensus of opinion from those that don't guess, pretend to know, speculate, post on subjects they know FA about , in other words get some egotistical pleasure about seeing their names in print even tho their comments are embarrassing and instant experts they are not. Oh where was I? Oh yes general consensus is that the plane did not "skid" off the runway, and no it didn't land too far down the perameter, quite simply, the nose wheel was not in the correct lined up position, i.e straight, meaning the aircraft steered itself off the run way and no the nose wheel did not collapse.

Ingress of <deleted> etc from the soft ground was the probable cause of the engine fire, and guess what Fire services were there very quickly to extinguish. The Cabin crew performed well by opening the slides opposite the fire area. A text book evacuation.

Now here is the question that needs to be answered, and that is, did the 4 bar ranker in the sharp end realise that the nose wheel was not aligned, which caused the aircraft to steer off, or not. Was this pilot error ??? watch this space

[ratcatcher]

Let's not be too harsh and critical of these minor inconveniences here in the transportation innovation HUB of Southeast Asia.

Edited September 9, 2013 by ratcatcher

[Bagwan]

380 is made by airbus not boeing!!!

Agreed. It does not appear to be an airframe problem but a powerplant one. Let's find out and criticise the engine maker, not the airframe maker.

Are not wheels part of the airframe? Are the engine manufacturers supposed to supply engines that will not be damaged by dragging then along the tarmac at say 130 knots?

[ginjag]

Flight from China the injured were more than likely standing trying to get there luggage out of the overhead.

moe 666 yes you are probably correct, but their actions were not responsible for the incident. Please note the word incident not accident. General consensus of opinion from those that don't guess, pretend to know, speculate, post on subjects they know FA about , in other words get some egotistical pleasure about seeing their names in print even tho their comments are embarrassing and instant experts they are not. Oh where was I? Oh yes general consensus is that the plane did not "skid" off the runway, and no it didn't land too far down the perameter, quite simply, the nose wheel was not in the correct lined up position, i.e straight, meaning the aircraft steered itself off the run way and no the nose wheel did not collapse.

Ingress of <deleted> etc from the soft ground was the probable cause of the engine fire, and guess what Fire services were there very quickly to extinguish. The Cabin crew performed well by opening the slides opposite the fire area. A text book evacuation.

Now here is the question that needs to be answered, and that is, did the 4 bar ranker in the sharp end realise that the nose wheel was not aligned, which caused the aircraft to steer off, or not. Was this pilot error ??? watch this space

7pm IN channel TV, reported that 300 meters of runway was damaged, and repairs were to take until Wednesday earliest. 80 flights were cancelled/diverted to DM airport and Utapou Sattahip.

[nonthaburial]

It's more a psychological measure so that other passengers from the same airline are not too scared when they see the crashed plane.

This is classic:

Mandarin.jpg

Coincidentally, the crashed plane was a flight from BKK to HKG, operated by Mandarin for China Airlines. I had a friend on the flight, and after the movement stopped, and he was suspended upside down, just before he undid his seat belt he turned to his girl friend and said: "This is going to hurt." He was uninjured, though.

again Typhoon weather related. HKIA is a very difficult airport due to windshear

[Bagwan]

They're covering up the flag so that no one knows its a Thai plane!

I don't think I will EVER understand why Thais CARE SO MUCH about how other people view them, and what other people think of them. Face. I just don't get it.

That they thought it would make a blind bit of difference gave me my laugh of the day. Obviously somebody has 'A" levels in stupidity. Maybe next time such an event happens they will quickly paint another airlines logo on what is left of the aircraft.

[ER II]

all over bar the shouting about how much in kick backs the transport moneyster will get for re-paving the airstrip

[Bagwan]

Loss of face thing, I noticed the Thai logo on the fwd fuselage was painted out overnight. Obviously their highest priority!

I reported a fuel/oil leak from a 747's No2 ecu. The purser came along and took a look and said it was water. I pointed out that at 36000' it was a bit cold out on the wing and perhaps he might like to go and get the co-pilot to have a look and log it. No one turned up but the purser did take my name and address to allow the airline to write and thank me for my flight safety awareness. Needless to say I never got a letter!

Another wannabee expert. If there is an oil leak, I'd bet it will show in the cockpit panels. It could be actually water, thin atmosphere plus the pressure changes around the plane. The faster you go, the lower the pressure.

Water? Have you any idea just how cold it is at 36,000 feet? Surely instant refrigeration.

[khaosai]

Hi,

Glad all onboard are safe.

Speculation is inevitable, particularly on websites around the globe. No real problem with that as the facts will be known in due course.

Birds activity is a know threat at this airport. Bad weather is a threat at any airport. Technical issues are a threat to any aircraft. Fatigue is a threat to any operation. Lots of potential factors can spoil your day as both a crew member and passenger.

Directional control can occur for many reasons, and can be a challenge on both take off and landing. It may be caused by asymmetric reverse thrust, tyre, brake or gear failure, engine failure or excessive control inputs.

Modern aircraft are however generally very reliable and system failure happens fairly infrequently.

Weather exists and changes on a daily basis and therefore poses some major challenges to a crew. Wet runway surfaces are generally not a problem in day to day operations and the landing distance required when compared to a dry runway are virtually identical if the correct techniques are employed. The problems arise when the runway surface becomes contaminated and that is a real threat on both take off and landing as 3 types of aquaplaning can occur which all have an effect on directional control.

The preferred runway for landing in Bangkok Is either 01L or 19R. The runway surface is grooved so it makes sense to land here if you have a contaminated runway surface. The safest course of action however is to delay the approach if the threat negatively affects flight safety.

The problems the crew will face are numerous, but major issues include getting an accurate depth of contaminant on the runway surface and getting a reliable braking action report as its impossible for a vehicle on the ground to replicate the landing speeds used by large aircraft. A good source of information if available would be a pilot report from a preceding landing aircraft of comparable aircraft type.

Pitch attitude on landing can be affected by flap setting which may result in nose wheel contact with the runway first which is obviously undesirable. It may well have been a training flight which again can cause potential problems if intervention is not carried out in a timely manner.

[jayboy]

 

Whoops !Interesting comment on Pprune

Quote:

 A Thai Airways official, Smud Poom-on, said that blurring the logo after an accident was a recommendation from Star Alliance known as the "crisis communication rule", meant to protect the image of both the airline and other members of Star Alliance.

Well it has not worked as most newspapers are now using this event as part of the story and Thai Airways features in all the headlines.

 

 

Indeed it hasn't.The Times (UK) has a frontpage story about the incident, specifically regarding the blacking out of the TG logo.It says "How not to handle a corporate crsis:lesson number one".

 

Sorry can't link because of paywall.

 

Incidentally the moronic TG spokesman  who put this idiocy down to Star Alliance policy is either a liar or devoid of all commonsense.Star Alliance members include serious airlines like SQ,ANZ, Lufthansa and United - none of which would makle fools of themselves (crappy landing apart) in this all too typical and revealing Thai Inter way

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Turns out the Thai Airways spokesman was lying through his teeth. The Star Alliance has now confirmed there is no such policy.

[kjhbigv]

Looks like the covering up of the logo is becoming a bigger story than the incident itself!

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/thai-airways-blacks-out-logo-after-skidding-off-runway-how-to-turn-an-accident-into-a-pr-disaster-8805321.html

[yoshiwara]

They're covering up the flag so that no one knows its a Thai plane!

I don't think I will EVER understand why Thais CARE SO MUCH about how other people view them, and what other people think of them. Face. I just don't get it.

That they thought it would make a blind bit of difference gave me my laugh of the day. Obviously somebody has 'A" levels in stupidity. Maybe next time such an event happens they will quickly paint another airlines logo on what is left of the aircraft.

It has made a blind bit of difference. It has made them a laughing stock.

[mikemac]

only in thailand very thainess

The painting of logos and cover-ups may be confined to Thailand ( I doubt it ) but accidents due to human error and murky incident investigations are certainly not.

I clicked on the link in MaxYakov's comment above which took me to the Times' story on the logo painting of the Thai Airways plane. Interesting reading. I also stumbled across an article involving an incident involving a British Airways A319 at Heathrow on Friday the 24th of May, 2013.

Apparently ground staff neglected to secure the engine cowls from both engines and they fell off during take-off, causing substantial damage to both engines.

The UK air accident investigation board (AAIB) has denied reports from US safety authorities, the National Transportation Safety Board, that the BA jet which made the emergency landing did so with one engine shut down and the other on fire.

The NTSB is assisting the investigation because the engines were manufactured for Airbus in the US.

There seems to be a discrepancy between the AAIB and the NTSB as to how serious the situation was.

The NTSB claim ...."The pilots subsequently reported that one engine was shut down and the other engine was on fire.".....which the AAIB denied.

The story was covered by The Guardian and The Independent, and the subsequent investigation was covered by Flightglobal, which is an online news and information website related to the aviation and aerospace industries.

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/learmount/2013/05/just-how-serious-was-the-ba-a3/

All airlines are in the business of keeping a clean image, and will go to great lengths to cover-up dodgy incidents, one way or another. Even non-Thai airlines.

Edited September 9, 2013 by mikemac

[sustento]

Painting over the Thai name and logos is so very Thai. Has any other operator ever done that?

No Way!:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/666553-flight-tg669-skids-off-runway-at-suvarnabhumi-airport/page-7#entry6806046

The 'Italian' Alitalia plane is actually registered in Romania according to its registration mark.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

whoseplane.jpgtraindies..jpg[attachment=231924:ferryqueen.jpg

Thai Airways-off-roading....................S.R,T. Dead Sprinter..................Ferry rock climbing in Phuket.

deadbus.jpg

Let's not be too harsh and critical of these minor inconveniences here in the transportation innovation HUB of Southeast Asia.

Ha!!!! I was thinking of putting together the same kind of collage myself, but you beat me to it...

Thailand -- Hub of Transportation Safety (and Crashes Caused by Ghosts)

[razorramone]

Painting over the brand may have worked in the past, but its really dumb now. The internet and 24 hour news coverage means any coverup is soon going to be a bigger story than the original incident, and it just looks ridiculous when you've got photos like the one in the Independent, with a fully branded Thai Airlines plane taking off in the background.

Also, maybe use white paint so it doesn't look so obvious?

[ovenman]

Painting over the brand may have worked in the past, but its really dumb now.

It might still work at some outstation where THAI has a minimal presence (e.g. one flight) and their livery isn't all that familiar but at their own hub where nearly every other plane is painted the same as the one with the problem...? Nice try though!

[peecee]

Loss of face thing, I noticed the Thai logo on the fwd fuselage was painted out overnight. Obviously their highest priority!

I reported a fuel/oil leak from a 747's No2 ecu. The purser came along and took a look and said it was water. I pointed out that at 36000' it was a bit cold out on the wing and perhaps he might like to go and get the co-pilot to have a look and log it. No one turned up but the purser did take my name and address to allow the airline to write and thank me for my flight safety awareness. Needless to say I never got a letter!

Another wannabee expert. If there is an oil leak, I'd bet it will show in the cockpit panels. It could be actually water, thin atmosphere plus the pressure changes around the plane. The faster you go, the lower the pressure.

An ecu oil level gauge on a 747? last time I worked on the engine instrument's they only had a low oil pressure warning light & a lot of oil could escape before this illuminated. How time fog's the memory; 25 yrs on jet's out the window!!

[wooly]

I love it - theThai Airways logos were covered up. Presumably they didn't want the aircraft to lose face!.

[tomyummer]

Wow, just caught this on Fox News. The anchor said that upon the accident, teams of employees rushed to the plane........to try and cover up the logos on the tail with spay paint. Not to rescue or help passengers, but to try to hide the plane's identity. How dumb a you get? The anchor said to possibly protect the dignity of the company.

Typical Thailand!

First you post a quarter billion dollar loss and now you continue to have accidents and attempt to save face? Come on!!