Flight TG669 skids off runway at Suvarnabhumi Airport

[Tywais]

Beat me to it John ^^^

Pretty well every aviation authority has issued various AWDs on A330 bogie beams after a number of failures. Prime suspect.

Google "a330 bogie beam failure" for a comprehensive list of incidents and AWDs.

Yep. ^^

"Thailand's Civil Aviation Authority reported on Tuesday (Sep 10th) that permission to move the aircraft off the runway has been granted, the works to release the runway fully back to service should be completed by midnight to Wednesday local time. The Authority added later in the day that the root cause of the runway excursion has been determined to be the fracture of the right hand main gear bogie beam. The cause of the fracture as well related events including the damage to the engines and engine fire are still being investigated.

On Sep 10th 2013 the airline said initial investigation results suggest that the aircraft had travelled about 1000 meters down the runway following a smooth landing when the right hand bogie beam broke and caused the runway excursion. The aircraft received substantial damage, especially on its right hand side and engine. Following the fracture of the bogie beam the right hand engine scraped along the runway surface causing sparks and some smoke, the actual cause of the following engine fire is still being investigated however.

The airport authority reported the airplane was moved off the runway area in the early morning of Wednesday Sep 11th 2013."

The link NeverSure posted earlier has been updated here - http://avherald.com/h?article=4681fccd&opt=0

[Tywais]

NOTE: This image is not of this aircraft but shows what a bogie beam break looks like. The two rods shown bottom center could certainly cause the tracks (gouge marks) viewed in the previous images.

[bubba]

On a side note, I was just talking to a friend of mine tonight. He was expecting a friend of his coming from Hawaii.

The friend was flying on a Thai airways flight on an Airbus 330 I believe. One of the engines blew up shortly after take off on the flight headed to Bangkok. The plane then limped back to Hawaii . Any news of this yet ??

Probably not, since Thai Airways do not have flights to Hawai'i.

[bubba]

NOTE: This image is not of this aircraft but shows what a bogie beam break looks like. The two rods shown bottom center could certainly cause the tracks (gouge marks) viewed in the previous images.

It would be interesting to learn whether TG complied with this Airworthiness Directive, that is, if HS-TEF was one of the subject aircraft:

http://www.aviationtoday.com/categories/maintenance/EASA-Issues-Emergency-AD-for-A330-300-A-340-200-300-MLG-Bogie-Beam_73757.html

EASA Issues Emergency AD for A330-300, A 340-200/-300 MLG Bogie Beam

The European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) emergency airworthiness directive (AD) No. 2011-0122-E requires certain Airbus 330 and A340 models to decrease in the existing main landing gear (MLG) bogie beam life limits and replace each MLG bogie beam that has already exceeded the new limit, according to the AD.

Issued June 30, 2011, the AD becomes effective July 1, 2011. It affects A330-301,321, 322, 341, 342 and A340-211,0212, 213, 311, 312, 313 models with part numbers P/N 201272300 and P/N 201272305.

During ground load test cycles on an A340-600 aeroplane, EASA found the MLG bogie beam to be prematurely fractured, due to high tensile standing stress, resulting

from dry-fit axle assembly method. This condition has improved with a grease fit axle assembly method, according to EASA.

Under high speeds, a fracture of the MLG bogie beam could cause an airplane to depart from the runway or the bogie beam to detach from the aircraft, or a MLG collapse, which the AD states could cause structural damage and possible injury to the aircraft occupants.

[sustento]

About the painting over of the Logo, that is standard practice for evey airline I have worked for.

Which airlines have you worked for ?

(this should be interesting !)

He's already told us once

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/666553-flight-tg669-skids-off-runway-at-suvarnabhumi-airport/page-4#entry6805318

Now how many have you worked for?

[mikemac]

Good post except for the dumb ass comment in the fourth paragraph. How is it ok for other carriers to find defective parts, but for the Thai's it's a convenient out?

What ? You only thought the 4th paragraph contained rubbish ? I was beginning to think everything he has written is rubbish. Anyone who obviously gets his jollies from a witch hunt like he is on has problems.

If you strapped 2 guys like him to each wing of an A380 the amount of spin generated would fly the plane around the world.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Good that you enjoy talking about me, since you clearly seem unable to talk intelligently about what happened with the aircraft mishap, why it happened, the role of the cabin crew amid passenger complaints, and Thailand's pretty sorry history of aircraft accident investigations.

I guess subjects of substance are beyond you, so you're left with nothing else to say but personal attacks.

Edited September 11, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[joboss]

Good post except for the dumb ass comment in the fourth paragraph. How is it ok for other carriers to find defective parts, but for the Thai's it's a convenient out?

What ? You only thought the 4th paragraph contained rubbish ? I was beginning to think everything he has written is rubbish. Anyone who obviously gets his jollies from a witch hunt like he is on has problems.

If you strapped 2 guys like him to each wing of an A380 the amount of spin generated would fly the plane around the world.

If they were talking in the same direction,,, otherwise it would just do 360's on the apron.

[MaxYakov]

Recent wheels-up emergency landing at Vnukovo International Airport (VKO), Moscow. Can anyone ID the airline (using only this image, of course)? Hint: symbol on vertical stabilizer. It looks to me like they used a tarp rather than paint.

Hat tIp: PPRuNe

Edited September 11, 2013 by MaxYakov

[boomerangutang]

well, if it's any consolation, at least they didn't have those pick-up truck ambulances from Bangkok arrive on the tarmac - to toss in the most seriously injured.

[MaxYakov]

well, if it's any consolation, at least they didn't have those pick-up truck ambulances from Bangkok arrive on the tarmac - to toss in the most seriously injured.

Good one! Just a tad too tacky even for Swampy (the pick-ups, not the humor).

Speaking of tarmac ... didn't those pics of the grooves* in the runway appear as though they were in asphalt and not concrete? Or are Max's eyes and imagination deceiving him.

* = new definition of 'grooved runway' - PPRuNe humor (such as it is)

Edited September 11, 2013 by MaxYakov

[mikemac]

Sorry TallGuyJohninBKK, But my comments are not personal attacks directed at you. They are directed at spin doctors in general, people who try to baffle us "average folk" with smoke and mirrors, and try to win arguments with exaggerated data, anecdotes, personal theories and hear-says.

Reading your posts reminds me of the Spanish Inquisition. You better hope Thai Airways defamation and slander lawyers do not pick up on your comments, you may make history !

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Let's see... what have I posted about:

--That there's a substantially wrecked jet sitting at Suvarnabhumi.

--That 13 or so of its passengers were injured or needed hospitalization from the evacuation.

--That the airline made headlines around the world for its logo painting out debacle.

--That they then compounded the problem by attributing the episode on Star Alliance policy, only to have Star refute that.

--That the BKK Post ran a front page article quoting Thai passengers complaining about how they were treated post crash.

--That the mishap investigation here will involve one Thai government entity investigating another.

--That there's a history of mistaken conclusions in Thai aircraft mishap investigations.

Seems to me most of that's pretty much what's been in the news this week...all around Thailand and beyond -- at least for anyone who's reading.

Meanwhile, I haven't opined on who or wnat may have been responsible for the mishap because I don't know, and don't have any basis to speculate on that. I do hope, however, that's there's a more objective accident investigation forthcoming than some that were done in the past.

Edited September 11, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[khaosai]

Hi,

Glad all onboard are safe.

Speculation is inevitable, particularly on websites around the globe. No real problem with that as the facts will be known in due course.

Birds activity is a know threat at this airport. Bad weather is a threat at any airport. Technical issues are a threat to any aircraft. Fatigue is a threat to any operation. Lots of potential factors can spoil your day as both a crew member and passenger.

Directional control can occur for many reasons, and can be a challenge on both take off and landing. It may be caused by asymmetric reverse thrust, tyre, brake or gear failure, engine failure or excessive control inputs.

Modern aircraft are however generally very reliable and system failure happens fairly infrequently.

Weather exists and changes on a daily basis and therefore poses some major challenges to a crew. Wet runway surfaces are generally not a problem in day to day operations and the landing distance required when compared to a dry runway are virtually identical if the correct techniques are employed. The problems arise when the runway surface becomes contaminated and that is a real threat on both take off and landing as 3 types of aquaplaning can occur which all have an effect on directional control.

The preferred runway for landing in Bangkok Is either 01L or 19R. The runway surface is grooved so it makes sense to land here if you have a contaminated runway surface. The safest course of action however is to delay the approach if the threat negatively affects flight safety.

The problems the crew will face are numerous, but major issues include getting an accurate depth of contaminant on the runway surface and getting a reliable braking action report as its impossible for a vehicle on the ground to replicate the landing speeds used by large aircraft. A good source of information if available would be a pilot report from a preceding landing aircraft of comparable aircraft type.

Pitch attitude on landing can be affected by flap setting which may result in nose wheel contact with the runway first which is obviously undesirable. It may well have been a training flight which again can cause potential problems if intervention is not carried out in a timely manner.

And after all your blah, what do you say now!

How about......"Well done Captain, Brilliant job...........shame about the PR team and "why are the two guys that changed the nose wheel assembly last, both nowhere to be found?" (That last bit is a joke by the way )

Well done captain, brilliant job.

[mikemac]

Well TallGuyJohninBKK, as far as I know there are no prizes for stating the obvious, boring people to tears, or flogging dead horses. But if any come along we will be in touch with you.

I sincerely hope you do not live in Thailand, because if this case has caused you so much grief life here must be sheer hell for you.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The companion TV thread on news/developments and discussion re the accident investigation is located here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/667044-probe-of-sundays-thai-aircraft-accident-begins/

Edited September 12, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[mikemac]

Thanks. Looking forward to NOT clicking on that link and reading any more about this. Yingluck making friends in Switzerland seems much more interesting.

[paul1970]

I don't fly in any model Airbus. Look up their record. They have to many "incidents".

There are French, British and other nationalities working on Airbus planes. The British make several

Models of the Rolls Royce engines which are very good engines.

I just don't want a plane that was made by people speaking different languages. There is to much

Technical date involved.Nothing negative about either nationality. One common language

On a product this complex it is much better.

My nephew worked at the Boeing at Everett, Washington, USA. the largest building in the world

Under one continous roof.

He also said he wouldn't fly in a Airbus plan.

I have flown to Thailand probably 8 times in recent year aboard 747's and 777's

I trust the General Electric engines and Boeing planes.

ChuLai 6768

Really, Boeing 787, bwaahahahahha, should be renamed Nightmare Liner what a dream that turned out to be, give me a plane designed by people who understand metric anyday.

[MaxYakov]

I don't fly in any model Airbus. Look up their record. They have to many "incidents".

There are French, British and other nationalities working on Airbus planes. The British make several

Models of the Rolls Royce engines which are very good engines.

I just don't want a plane that was made by people speaking different languages. There is to much

Technical date involved.Nothing negative about either nationality. One common language

On a product this complex it is much better.

My nephew worked at the Boeing at Everett, Washington, USA. the largest building in the world

Under one continous roof.

He also said he wouldn't fly in a Airbus plan.

I have flown to Thailand probably 8 times in recent year aboard 747's and 777's

I trust the General Electric engines and Boeing planes.

ChuLai 6768

Really, Boeing 787, bwaahahahahha, should be renamed Nightmare Liner what a dream that turned out to be, give me a plane designed by people who understand metric anyday.

Soooo ... understanding metric is just about all it takes to design a modern aircraft, eh?:

http://www.fastcodesign.com/1669720/how-lousy-cockpit-design-crashed-an-airbus-killing-228-people

Maybe you should go over here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/667247-planes-landing-gear-had-history-of-problems-thai-airways-says

and make a case for Airbus to folks that are freaked-out about both Thai Airways and Airbus.

Edited September 12, 2013 by MaxYakov

[Spare]

When THAI clash, they blame the airlines, blame the country and blame every Thai people.

When an american airline crash, they praise how smart the armerican pilot is, in saving the life of a few hundred passengers.

[Fookhaht]

When THAI clash, they blame the airlines, blame the country and blame every Thai people.

When an american airline crash, they praise how smart the armerican pilot is, in saving the life of a few hundred passengers.

It's the case of viewing life as a glass half-empty vs. a glass half-full.

[EyesWideOpen]

When THAI clash, they blame the airlines, blame the country and blame every Thai people.

When an american airline crash, they praise how smart the armerican pilot is, in saving the life of a few hundred passengers.

So when the US Airways pilot made the decision to land his jet in the Hudson River and saved every single person on board, any pilot could have done that?

[Langsuan Man]

For those who are continuing to defend TG and the great logo coverup scandal, just do a Google Image Search using the search term airplane crash and see the only logos that are covered up are due to fire or damage, not ground crews

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1280&bih=765&q=airplane+crash&oq=airpl&gs_l=img.1.1.0l10.2533.5564.0.10159.11.8.3.0.0.0.67.451.8.8.0....0...1ac.1.26.img..0.11.462.lN0KqZ2Ut-Y

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

LM, I did a similar Google image search a few days ago, and posted some of the images here in a prior post, that shows a lot of mishap aircraft where the identifications were left untouched post-mishap. Those included Thai Air's own 737 that exploded on the ground at Don Muang in 2001 and the Nok Air (a THAI subsidiary) jet that ran off the runway at Trang Airport last month, as well as the Asiana Air jet that crashed at SFO earlier this year.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/666553-flight-tg669-skids-off-runway-at-suvarnabhumi-airport/?view=findpost&p=6810201

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/666553-flight-tg669-skids-off-runway-at-suvarnabhumi-airport/page-14#entry6811087

I also found some examples where the logo had been erased post mishap where those parts of the plane remained intact post-mishap. But clearly, as you saw, if you look at a lot of post mishap photos, there's no visibly dominant practice of airlines to erase their logo. Some do, but just as many others or more don't. The results certainly don't fit with the assertion by some here that erasing the logo is the prevailing or common practice.

That said, I suppose, THAI Air is entitled to follow whatever corporate policies they choose for their own aircraft -- even if those end up putting the airline on the front pages of news reports around the world portrayed in a not very flattering manner.

Edited September 14, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[bubba]

Looks like this story is still making it's rounds on the internet. Published at Flyertalk.com this week -

Thumbs Up for Lufthansa; Thumbs Down For Thai Airways

“The biggest cover-up in Thai Airways history was already under way.” Sorajak Kasemsuvan, the airline’s president “headed immediately for the airport” and took charge of the damage – the damage to Thai Airways’ name. The airline’s maintenance crew “grabbed buckets of black paint, long-handled brushes, the keys to a long-armed cherry picker and headed down to TG 679.”

Workers on the crane used a minimalist approach and splashed black paint over the Thai flag, THAI logo and every other identifying mark on the aircraft. Afterwards, a THAI spokesperson said it was “the crisis communication rule of Star Alliance to de-identify.”

Then the paint hit the fan (the thinner the china, the louder the rattle.) “Star Alliance spokesman Markus Ruediger was on international TV within hours denying any such policy.”

......

There’s more to the story. Passengers from the incident “complained they were treated insensitively, herded like cattle.” Reportedly, the airline had “no crisis room, no crisis staff, and no crisis policy.”

And that made THAI chairman Ampon Kittiampon mad, his clouds of logic drifting in and out. Why whine, he thought, “the ungrateful passengers aboard TG 679” should be thankful they were saved.”

As for Thai Airways, they keep falling behind great Asian airlines like Cathay and Singapore, like they’re stuck in a paint pot. Is their problem in the corridors of power?

----------

I see the management changes made at the last Thai Airways Board meeting did not include any changes regarding the President, K. Sorasak.

http://www.flyertalk.com/the-tarmac/thumbs-up-for-lufthansa-thumbs-down-for-thai-airways.html