Mowing the Lawn....Need work Permit

[Mario2008]

1 post removed. Keep it civil in your wording.

[yourauntbob]

Hey ...thanks for the replies...

My take from this is "ANYTHING you do" that "a Thai can be paid for" can be considered work....

I guess the key is not to piss off some Thai that will complain against you.

That's my excuse to the missus on why she needs to service me at least three times a week while i watch adult videos.

Edited September 21, 2013 by yourauntbob

[transam]

I personally mow government land in front of my place cos THEY will not do it.

[bocceball1]

I personally mow government land in front of my place cos THEY will not do it.

Funny you mention that....I used to clean the beach in front of my house because the Government never used to do it. Well...they must have seen me do it because now they do it once a week.

[pilm]

Here's a recent example from the Phuket Gazette where two foriegners were arrested for building their own boats in their own gardens.

http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket_news/2013/Phuket-Immigration-cracks-down-on-yachting-marine-industry-22294.html

That is what I would call going to far.

Perhaps it is the start of the future.

[tingtongteesood]

When the wife complains about house maintenance being done, calnmly explain to her that everything is in her name and you are not allowed to work due to the lack of a work permit so she will have to mow the lawn, paint the house and clean the gutters herself. You really want to do it but you don't want to be deported. Best excuse ever !!

[bbbbooboo]

lol.......you wouldn't want to be caught working on your wife/g/f then I guess

[menorah]

As a rule I do any work I'm capable of doing myself and thus save myself money but take nothing from the 'Thai purse'.

My partner & I have spent the last 3 years renovating property she owns and for the last 2 of those years I've taken responsibility for any quality finishing, be it painted surfaces, ceramic tiling, electrics or architectural design.

Thailand is full to bursting with capable trades people, however, few if any possess any kind of professionally recognised qualification.

Thais are the original 'Jack of all trades..'. Don't get me wrong, the problem isn't they're incapable of achieving recognised Western standards, it's simply that they're not educated or encouraged to be better than basic!

On occasion, during some job or another, I've asked the worker what he/she thinks about how it's all looking, I always get the same response...".I don't think about it or I have no opinion" !!

The concept of taking pride in how work is executed and the end result are of no importance. Only the wage at the end of the week is important !

If the authorities should ever take me to task over my activities, which hurt no one, not even Thais since they don't want to work to my exacting standards, then I would exercise my right to exit LOS and find myself somewhere else to stay.

In fairness, my activities are carried out openly and most of the various government offices are well aware of 'the crazy farang ' who does all 'the donkey work' himself.

Most of them are complimentary as they recognise the discomfort an average farang endures working in heat & high humidity.

To date I've received much praise for my 'innovative ideas' and practical solutions to age old problems encountered by Thais when building property.

So, in short, there's an outside chance some 'Jobs worth' Thai official will 'go by the book' but he/she is most likely to be overruled by superiors recognising the greater good, ie financial spending, you contribute within the local community.

[paz]

Depends if they were building the boats for resale or not. If it was for eesale they broke the law if not nothing will happen to them.

Wow you must be a good fortuneteller to say that. To begin with, they have been arrested, and likely the are out on bail now. If that's "nothing" to you... more power to you.

Then as every other has correctly said, by law and by pactice, there is no need for money to change hands to be arrested/charged.

[paz]

As a rule I do any work I'm capable of doing myself and thus save myself money but take nothing from the 'Thai purse'.

...

If the authorities should ever take me to task over my activities, which hurt no one, not even Thais since they don't want to work to my exacting standards, then I would exercise my right to exit LOS and find myself somewhere else to stay.

And they (heaven forbid) could exercise their right to make you miserable in the process of exiting.

So, in short, there's an outside chance some 'Jobs worth' Thai official will 'go by the book' but he/she is most likely to be overruled by superiors recognising the greater good, ie financial spending, you contribute within the local community.

You are clearly a good man, I just hope you will not ever meet an hating superior overrulling other reasonable superiors.

[asiaexpat]

Here's a recent example from the Phuket Gazette where two foriegners were arrested for building their own boats in their own gardens.

http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket_news/2013/Phuket-Immigration-cracks-down-on-yachting-marine-industry-22294.html

Consider the source (not known for reliability or investigative reporting)as well as Phuket's various police organizations. This gives no cause to worry.

[PattayaPhom]

Anyone can do what they want as long as its not working. Building your own house isnt working. Teaching English as a favour to a neighbour isnt working.

[Incobart]

You don't have to think literal about this, but think why this law is made in many countries.

If you go to a country to make money = working

you need to be registered, = getting a work permit, follow the rules and pay taxes, like the people of that country mostly also have to do.

so nowhere it is allowed, to go make money, without paying tax or be registered.

It is clear that if you say i come as tourist, that you are tourist and not work or get a job. Anything that you do that can be considered as giving you money or profit = working.

Things you are normally do everywhere without payment, is not working.

for example, cleaning your house, wash your car, painting your mailbox , repair your door lock, maintain your garden = NOT WORKING .. as you don't get salary for it, and normally nobody gets paid for it

if you do these things for your neighbor, you are painting 50 mailboxes at home, you build your own house, = THIS IS CONSIDERED WORKING, as normally people get money to do that, or you making profit.

2 things you have to keep in mind :

a) In Thailand there is a law that you can not do a job with work permit, normally every thai can do, this to protect jobs for locals. you can not be cleaner, or painter, or serving drinks ..

you can be manager, advisor, something that your skills, diploma shows you can do better, or not any thai can do.

In Thailand laws are often not followed correct, there is corruption, so as many comments said, avoid getting problem with someone, there is always a way to threat you with corruption

hope it is clear now

[soi41]

Depends if they were building the boats for resale or not. If it was for eesale they broke the law if not nothing will happen to them.

Wow you must be a good fortuneteller to say that. To begin with, they have been arrested, and likely the are out on bail now. If that's "nothing" to you... more power to you.

Then as every other has correctly said, by law and by pactice, there is no need for money to change hands to be arrested/charged.

Please get your facts straight before you post!

Both the "poor victims" from Phuket were on long overstays, 7 months and more than 2 years! So they are probably on their way to IDC, awaiting deportation?

As for the urban myth about what you can do without a workpermit, I live in Hua Hin close to the Kings palace, and last month, when the King and Queen moved back to Hua Hin, immigration came around to check my paperwork. I guess because of the closeness to the palace, it was a matter of "national security"

When the guys from immigration arrived, I was outside my property in the street cutting trees, and the only reaction from them was complimenting me for making the street nicer!!

So ofcourse you can do jobs in and around your house without risking any consequenses!

[Beetlejuice]

My Swedish neighbor and his 24 year old blond Swedish wife were seen by an off duty policeman repairing their roof.

The guy received a death sentence and his young wife was held in close custody.

[atsiii]

I have always understood a work permit is required for all work that would normally be paid.

Would you normally pay yourself for mowing your own lawn or cleaning your own car?

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Actually, getting paid has nothing to do with it. Pretty much if you are living, breathing and thinking, per the wording of the act--you need a work permit.

It is troubling in the sense that if you simply piss off a neighbor, they can file a complaint and one can get deported with all your stuff and your wife left behind. It tends not to happen unless you get on someone's "shit list," but it does happen--which is why it is troubling.

[sfbandung]

Were you paying yourself? I'd assume "work" means paid employment. The objective of the law is to stop you taking a job from a Thai. As someone pointed out, if it extended to every task you could possibly outsource (like wiping your arse or shagging your missus) it would be ridiculous.

Edited September 21, 2013 by sfbandung

[Metapod]

Were you paying yourself? I'd assume "work" means paid employment. The objective of the law is to stop you taking a job from a Thai. As someone pointed out, if it extended to every task you could possibly outsource (like wiping your arse or shagging your missus) it would be ridiculous.

The legal definition of work in Thai also includes non-paid work. That is why the situation is a lot more vague and tricky.

Here is the official definition..

"to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits"

[sfbandung]

Were you paying yourself? I'd assume "work" means paid employment. The objective of the law is to stop you taking a job from a Thai. As someone pointed out, if it extended to every task you could possibly outsource (like wiping your arse or shagging your missus) it would be ridiculous.

The legal definition of work in Thai also includes non-paid work. That is why the situation is a lot more vague and tricky.

Here is the official definition..

"to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits"

Thanks for that. So, yes, it is ridiculous as it could technically include me shagging my missus. How bizarre.

[Metapod]

Were you paying yourself? I'd assume "work" means paid employment. The objective of the law is to stop you taking a job from a Thai. As someone pointed out, if it extended to every task you could possibly outsource (like wiping your arse or shagging your missus) it would be ridiculous.

The legal definition of work in Thai also includes non-paid work. That is why the situation is a lot more vague and tricky.

Here is the official definition..

"to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits"

Thanks for that. So, yes, it is ridiculous as it could technically include me shagging my missus. How bizarre.

Just don't put any energy or knowledge into it and you should be right.

[sfbandung]

Were you paying yourself? I'd assume "work" means paid employment. The objective of the law is to stop you taking a job from a Thai. As someone pointed out, if it extended to every task you could possibly outsource (like wiping your arse or shagging your missus) it would be ridiculous.

The legal definition of work in Thai also includes non-paid work. That is why the situation is a lot more vague and tricky.

Here is the official definition..

"to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits"

Thanks for that. So, yes, it is ridiculous as it could technically include me shagging my missus. How bizarre.

Just don't put any energy or knowledge into it and you should be right.

They'd need a high speed camera to catch me in the act!

[LawrenceN]

I like the article where it says they "were caught building their own boats ..." I guess they should have kept the boats better hidden.

Haven't they ever heard of hobbies? Could I get arrested for stamp-collecting or listening to music? Then why can't boat-building - not for profit, for your own use - be considered a hobby?

[lusty]

if somebody doesn't like you, he can discreetly tip the nearest "so no" i.e. police station that a farang works as a jack of all trades, repairing/painting his house and gardening instead of employing poor local people in real need for money. horrified to have a jai rai and a keeniaow (heartless and stingy) farang in their fiefdom, and smelling money making opportunities, they might visit your house sniffing around for more proof of your negative attitude and perhaps to find some gold nuggets like failure to report every 90 days or a healthy plant of weed growing in the garden. further gossips from neighbours will play an important role in this. in any case some sort of financial agreement will settle the dust, started by your un-thai and un -kind attitude. jokes aside, I think you shouldn't worry, as long as you're liked and maintain a friendly attitude with all people living in the area. it's the art of blending in, to pass under tha radar, to be invisible even though you are not thai. if you can do it, you can do whatever you want. even bad things...oops!

[joepattaya1961]

Hey ...thanks for the replies...

My take from this is "ANYTHING you do" that "a Thai can be paid for" can be considered work....

I guess the key is not to piss off some Thai that will complain against you.

Sooooo, having sex with your Western partner, requires the Western partner to obtain a WP?

Joking of course.....it's all a matter of common sense and friendly neighbors.

[SantiSuk]

I suspect its an urban myth that you will get fined or deported for doing tasks for your own private benefit that could otherwise provide employ for a Thai. We keep seeing this analysis of the technical position of the law and I don't doubt that a case can be made to say there is a risk.

But in reality, surely we should not be scared of our own shadows. I challenge anyone out there to give us a personal experience where they have ultimately suffered personal loss - deportation, jail or fine; no hearsay please.

[lopburi3]

Posts removed. From The Ridiculous To The Absurd and now nationality bashing. Please cease.

[epicstuff]

If it doesn't involve spending money to make Thais richer, It seems it is classed as working . I read about a couple of guys getting busted for building their own boat on their own private property . If that wouldn't be classed as a hobby anywhere else, I don't know what would...!!! . but immigration say it was working illegally... it all stinks to me.

So in answer to your question I think they could easily arrest you for cutting your grass because you could pay a Thai to do it for you....

[JohnDodd]

Don't know what parts of Thailand these blokes live in. The part of Isaan I live I regularly drive a Kubuta,

help my wife's Family with all the job's in rural Thailand, have done for years. The local BIB, just laugh

and wave.

[Kilgore Trout]

Anyone can do what they want as long as its not working. Building your own house isnt working. Teaching English as a favour to a neighbour isnt working.

You are so wrong it isn't even funny; read the law, again read the law, one last time;READ the LAW!!!!!

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Kilgore Trout]

Don't know what parts of Thailand these blokes live in. The part of Isaan I live I regularly drive a Kubuta,

help my wife's Family with all the job's in rural Thailand, have done for years. The local BIB, just laugh

and wave.

Ok, we will do a test; let me come and take pictures of you then make a complaint to immigration and dept of labor. I'm quite surre you will have problems

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app