Does anyone have investments in Thai market?

[midas]

See above where I explicitly addressed the future and put the word in capital letters so you could find it.

Besides arithmetic, there's reading.

You keep changing the question. Before, it was "lower." I answered that (and a whole lot of other silly assertions) and offered you an Excel formula to help you. What thanks did I get?

Now, it's changed to "it's low." Which is not needed to know anyway--another question that simply reveals inexperience. This could go on forever, you see, while you throw out nonsensical questions and assertions in an attempt to educate yourself without doing any real work or study, wanting to be constantly spoonfed, one little spoon at a time. Screw that.

It's like this old fart German who lives nearby and asks me to fix his computer he's always screwing up. Being a nice guy, I try to help him out. So while I'm fixing his problem, he stands there and spouts all kinds of "solutions" as to HOW I should fix it. He doesn't even know what the real problem is! I explain why one point is wrong and then he throws out yet another bit of nonsense; so I explain that, and so on ad infinitum. Takes me 3 times longer just dealing with him. I finally had to refuse: rather than wasting my time, he should take a course somewhere or read on his own and learn for himself. (I've pointed you towards some excellent sources.) Or just pay a shop--i.e., a good fund manager.

Nowhere did I say a word about THE low, as it is pretty much irrelevant.

See above posts.

suppose you had bought this stock 13 years ago. This stock had a buy rating at that time.

It would be a long wait before you could sell higher than you bought.

So you put ALL your money, your LIFE SAVINGS, into that ONE low volatility stock that you knew no better than to select. At THE PEAK, of course! And then, being a Lump Sum investor, you just sat on it.

Brilliant! Fantastic example, too. Why not Microsoft--not at its low, but a year after the initial low?

Oh, the silliness. Yawn. I'm outta here. SUCH boredom.

I'll continue successfully following standard techniques laid out long ago by academics and successful investors--which certainly have worked well for me over decades--and you do the only thing you know to do, follow your personal alarm bell indicator and jump in or out according to perceived alarm strength. You should publish!

Or, you can follow midas and head for the hills.

I'm happy; I got answers to my questions long ago--from the best.

Pick up the torch, somebody. MacWalen?

Cheers!

Good that you're out of here, because it got bored of you talking in circles around the subject, and taking other members posts out of it's context, to suit your answers.

By the way I thought it was against forum rules to modify the content of another members post in your reply.

I hope those " best ones" who answered all your questions and taught you everything, weren't the same as who sold everyone their PRIME investment products in 2007 and then bet against them on the market

[jbrain]

The reality is, in the FUTURE when the price is higher (see above definition), you sell and profit. When it is lower, you buy and lower your price per share.

I'll continue successfully following standard techniques laid out long ago by academics and successful investors--which certainly have worked well for me over decades--and you do the only thing you know to do, follow your personal alarm bell indicator and jump in or out according to perceived alarm strength. You should publish!

Averaging Down - Good Idea or Foolish Risk?

Conclusion

If you’re playing stocks, averaging down probably doesn’t make any sense. Take a small loss before it becomes a big loss and move on to the next trade.

http://stocks.about.com/od/advancedtrading/a/Avedwn012405.htm

[yoshiwara]

The reality is, in the FUTURE when the price is higher (see above definition), you sell and profit. When it is lower, you buy and lower your price per share.

I'll continue successfully following standard techniques laid out long ago by academics and successful investors--which certainly have worked well for me over decades--and you do the only thing you know to do, follow your personal alarm bell indicator and jump in or out according to perceived alarm strength. You should publish!

Averaging Down - Good Idea or Foolish Risk?

Conclusion

If you’re playing stocks, averaging down probably doesn’t make any sense. Take a small loss before it becomes a big loss and move on to the next trade.

http://stocks.about.com/od/advancedtrading/a/Avedwn012405.htm

You are cherry-picking your quotes. You excluded the part of the conclusion which reads:

'If you invest in companies, averaging down may make sense if you want to accumulate more shares and are convinced the company is fundamentally sound. '

[jbrain]

The reality is, in the FUTURE when the price is higher (see above definition), you sell and profit. When it is lower, you buy and lower your price per share.

I'll continue successfully following standard techniques laid out long ago by academics and successful investors--which certainly have worked well for me over decades--and you do the only thing you know to do, follow your personal alarm bell indicator and jump in or out according to perceived alarm strength. You should publish!

Averaging Down - Good Idea or Foolish Risk?

Conclusion

If you’re playing stocks, averaging down probably doesn’t make any sense. Take a small loss before it becomes a big loss and move on to the next trade.

http://stocks.about.com/od/advancedtrading/a/Avedwn012405.htm

You are cherry-picking your quotes. You excluded the part of the conclusion which reads:

'If you invest in companies, averaging down may make sense if you want to accumulate more shares and are convinced the company is fundamentally sound. '

But in this thread we are not investing in companies, are we ?

This thread is about investing in the stock market, the Thai stock market in particular, and not about buying out companies.

I also doubt that anyone involved in this thread, including our own Pattaya Buffett , is in a position to buy even 0.05% in any company listed on the stock market.

And finally, I'm not cherry picking anything as I posted a link to the article for everybody to read. I think it's called fair usage

Edited October 8, 2013 by jbrain

[yoshiwara]

But in this thread we are not investing in companies, are we ?

This thread is about investing in the stock market, the Thai stock market in particular, and not about buying out companies.

I also doubt that anyone involved in this thread, including our own Pattaya Buffett , is in a position to buy even 0.05% in any company listed on the stock market.

And finally, I'm not cherry picking anything as I posted a link to the article for everybody to read. I think it's called fair usage

Oh deary-dear. You really do seriously misunderstand.

Investment in the stock market can both take the form of the shorter-term trader or the longer term investor.

[NeverSure]

The reality is, in the FUTURE when the price is higher (see above definition), you sell and profit. When it is lower, you buy and lower your price per share.

I'll continue successfully following standard techniques laid out long ago by academics and successful investors--which certainly have worked well for me over decades--and you do the only thing you know to do, follow your personal alarm bell indicator and jump in or out according to perceived alarm strength. You should publish!

Averaging Down - Good Idea or Foolish Risk?

Conclusion

If you’re playing stocks, averaging down probably doesn’t make any sense. Take a small loss before it becomes a big loss and move on to the next trade.

http://stocks.about.com/od/advancedtrading/a/Avedwn012405.htm

You are cherry-picking your quotes. You excluded the part of the conclusion which reads:

'If you invest in companies, averaging down may make sense if you want to accumulate more shares and are convinced the company is fundamentally sound. '

I agree. The most money I ever made as a percentage of investment, was during and after the US stock market crash of 2008. The market had its biggest point drop ever on Sept. 20. It was pure luck on my part that I made money.

The money was in what's called a 401k which is retirement account where the money going in is tax deductible at the time, and is taxed later after reaching a minimum retirement age. The catch is that if you withdraw early, you pay the ordinary income taxes on it plus a penalty percentage. So I would have lost about 40% by withdrawing it and that 401k didn't have a cash option, not even government bonds. So I rode it out. Lucky me.

What happened was I was putting in a fixed amount of money every month as a payroll deduction. The employer matched it, so I hated to give that up by stopping. So I just kept riding it out. I was putting in just $250 a month, and so was the employer for $6,000 a year.

As stocks got cheaper until they were worth about 1/2 what they had been, I was dollar cost averaging down. Then it recovered and set new highs and all of those stocks I bought for 1/2 price or 3/4 price both down and up made me a lot more money than if the market hadn't crashed. A lot more.

So I agree. If you have chosen funds or stocks that you believe in, and you're buying every pre-determined period, just keep buying unless you think you're seeing a top.

Cheers.

[Naam]

The reality is, in the FUTURE when the price is higher (see above definition), you sell and profit. When it is lower, you buy and lower your price per share.

I'll continue successfully following standard techniques laid out long ago by academics and successful investors--which certainly have worked well for me over decades--and you do the only thing you know to do, follow your personal alarm bell indicator and jump in or out according to perceived alarm strength. You should publish!

Averaging Down - Good Idea or Foolish Risk?

Conclusion

If you’re playing stocks, averaging down probably doesn’t make any sense. Take a small loss before it becomes a big loss and move on to the next trade.

http://stocks.about.com/od/advancedtrading/a/Avedwn012405.htm

"averaging down, hold or sell" is a matter of personal perspective and strategy. i follow since years the strict rule

"if an asset declines 5% within 5 trading days i sell."

result is not always, but in most cases positive.

[JSixpack]

You are cherry-picking your quotes. You excluded the part of the conclusion which reads:

'If you invest in companies, averaging down may make sense if you want to accumulate more shares and are convinced the company is fundamentally sound. '

I agree. The most money I ever made as a percentage of investment, was during and after the US stock market crash of 2008. The market had its biggest point drop ever on Sept. 20. It was pure luck on my part that I made money.

The money was in what's called a 401k which is retirement account where the money going in is tax deductible at the time, and is taxed later after reaching a minimum retirement age. The catch is that if you withdraw early, you pay the ordinary income taxes on it plus a penalty percentage. So I would have lost about 40% by withdrawing it and that 401k didn't have a cash option, not even government bonds. So I rode it out. Lucky me.

What happened was I was putting in a fixed amount of money every month as a payroll deduction. The employer matched it, so I hated to give that up by stopping. So I just kept riding it out. I was putting in just $250 a month, and so was the employer for $6,000 a year.

As stocks got cheaper until they were worth about 1/2 what they had been, I was dollar cost averaging down. Then it recovered and set new highs and all of those stocks I bought for 1/2 price or 3/4 price both down and up made me a lot more money than if the market hadn't crashed. A lot more.

So I agree. If you have chosen funds or stocks that you believe in, and you're buying every pre-determined period, just keep buying unless you think you're seeing a top.

Cheers.

Yep. That's how it works.

The selection is quite important. You switch to stocks that are likely to rise quickly in the recovery--which you're getting at a bargain price anyway--buy more and clean up. Or if you have a good reliable volatile stock or fund, just stay with it and invest more when it's down--but cash in on the way up.

Not some dog like a telecom utility that an analyst has recommended for old ladies--Lump Sum investors, all of them.

Nor do you start with a stock that's already had a big rise, maybe peaking out (that's probably not value). . . unless you know momentum strategy well and feel pretty confident of a continued rise. (In which case, gimme my stop losses anyway!) William O'Neill's book can tell you all about that. Too much work for me. But some fundamentals research and some studying charts are very necessary in any case.

Note the word "stocks" plural. You just need a few in the diversified portfolio to do well; all of them won't.

Cheers!

[jbrain]

You are cherry-picking your quotes. You excluded the part of the conclusion which reads:

'If you invest in companies, averaging down may make sense if you want to accumulate more shares and are convinced the company is fundamentally sound. '

I agree. The most money I ever made as a percentage of investment, was during and after the US stock market crash of 2008. The market had its biggest point drop ever on Sept. 20. It was pure luck on my part that I made money.

The money was in what's called a 401k which is retirement account where the money going in is tax deductible at the time, and is taxed later after reaching a minimum retirement age. The catch is that if you withdraw early, you pay the ordinary income taxes on it plus a penalty percentage. So I would have lost about 40% by withdrawing it and that 401k didn't have a cash option, not even government bonds. So I rode it out. Lucky me.

What happened was I was putting in a fixed amount of money every month as a payroll deduction. The employer matched it, so I hated to give that up by stopping. So I just kept riding it out. I was putting in just $250 a month, and so was the employer for $6,000 a year.

As stocks got cheaper until they were worth about 1/2 what they had been, I was dollar cost averaging down. Then it recovered and set new highs and all of those stocks I bought for 1/2 price or 3/4 price both down and up made me a lot more money than if the market hadn't crashed. A lot more.

So I agree. If you have chosen funds or stocks that you believe in, and you're buying every pre-determined period, just keep buying unless you think you're seeing a top.

Cheers.

Yep. That's how it works.

The selection is quite important. You switch to stocks that are likely to rise quickly in the recovery--which you're getting at a bargain price anyway--buy more and clean up. Or if you have a good reliable volatile stock or fund, just stay with it and invest more when it's down--but cash in on the way up.

Not some dog like a telecom utility that an analyst has recommended for old ladies--Lump Sum investors, all of them.

Nor do you start with a stock that's already had a big rise, maybe peaking out (that's probably not value). . . unless you know momentum strategy well and feel pretty confident of a continued rise. (In which case, gimme my stop losses anyway!) William O'Neill's book can tell you all about that. Too much work for me. But some fundamentals research and some studying charts are very necessary in any case.

Note the word "stocks" plural. You just need a few in the diversified portfolio to do well; all of them won't.

Cheers!

In short, today will be sun all day but there is a chance for heavy rains

[yoshiwara]

You are cherry-picking your quotes. You excluded the part of the conclusion which reads:

'If you invest in companies, averaging down may make sense if you want to accumulate more shares and are convinced the company is fundamentally sound. '

I agree. The most money I ever made as a percentage of investment, was during and after the US stock market crash of 2008. The market had its biggest point drop ever on Sept. 20. It was pure luck on my part that I made money.

The money was in what's called a 401k which is retirement account where the money going in is tax deductible at the time, and is taxed later after reaching a minimum retirement age. The catch is that if you withdraw early, you pay the ordinary income taxes on it plus a penalty percentage. So I would have lost about 40% by withdrawing it and that 401k didn't have a cash option, not even government bonds. So I rode it out. Lucky me.

What happened was I was putting in a fixed amount of money every month as a payroll deduction. The employer matched it, so I hated to give that up by stopping. So I just kept riding it out. I was putting in just $250 a month, and so was the employer for $6,000 a year.

As stocks got cheaper until they were worth about 1/2 what they had been, I was dollar cost averaging down. Then it recovered and set new highs and all of those stocks I bought for 1/2 price or 3/4 price both down and up made me a lot more money than if the market hadn't crashed. A lot more.

So I agree. If you have chosen funds or stocks that you believe in, and you're buying every pre-determined period, just keep buying unless you think you're seeing a top.

Cheers.

Yep. That's how it works.

The selection is quite important. You switch to stocks that are likely to rise quickly in the recovery--which you're getting at a bargain price anyway--buy more and clean up. Or if you have a good reliable volatile stock or fund, just stay with it and invest more when it's down--but cash in on the way up.

Not some dog like a telecom utility that an analyst has recommended for old ladies--Lump Sum investors, all of them.

Nor do you start with a stock that's already had a big rise, maybe peaking out (that's probably not value). . . unless you know momentum strategy well and feel pretty confident of a continued rise. (In which case, gimme my stop losses anyway!) William O'Neill's book can tell you all about that. Too much work for me. But some fundamentals research and some studying charts are very necessary in any case.

Note the word "stocks" plural. You just need a few in the diversified portfolio to do well; all of them won't.

Cheers!

In short, today will be sun all day but there is a chance for heavy rains

There are no one-way bets and there is always risk, but that's the way it is.

[JSixpack]

In short, today will be sun all day but there is a chance for heavy rains

There are no one-way bets and there is always risk, but that's the way it is.

Exactly. Point is to maximize the probablity of getting good returns while minimizing the risks. JBrain knows this quite well but likes to pretend he doesn't in order to troll the thread.

[JSixpack]

You are cherry-picking your quotes. You excluded the part of the conclusion which reads:

'If you invest in companies, averaging down may make sense if you want to accumulate more shares and are convinced the company is fundamentally sound. '

But in this thread we are not investing in companies, are we ?

This thread is about investing in the stock market, the Thai stock market in particular, and not about buying out companies.

Standard terminology, which you don't know because of ignorance and inexperience. Yes, in this thread we are investing in companies by buying shares in the companies through brokers who are members of the stock exchanged. Duh.

I also doubt that anyone involved in this thread, including our own Pattaya Buffett , is in a position to buy even 0.05% in any company listed on the stock market.

Irrelevant and typically silly point.

And finally, I'm not cherry picking anything as I posted a link to the article for everybody to read. I think it's called fair usage

Yes you are because you quoted only the brief portions that you thought agreeed with you. Probably too lazy to read the whole article as usual, which in the end contradicted the very point you were trying to make.

I love this forum!

[PeterSmiles]

Any update how much money the the defenders of the Thai stock market in this thread have made since the thread started ?

[Naam]

Any update how much money the the defenders of the Thai stock market in this thread have made since the thread started ?

the thread started Sun Sep30,

SET close FRI Sep27 = 1,417.49,

SET close today = 1,230.77

result: index minus 186.72 = -13.17%

note: that the index is down does not necessarily imply that investors in individual stocks made a loss. they might have even made a profit.

[up-country_sinclair]

^^Not an entirely fair question. What you should have asked is how much they made since they bought in.

Edited January 2, 2014 by up-country_sinclair

[PeterSmiles]

^^Not an entirely fair question. What you should have asked is how much they made since they bought in.

Because of this post

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/671220-does-anyone-have-investments-in-thai-market/?p=6900469

Reading charts is a tricky matter. I see from this chart the market will go up

By the way if they bought before the start of this thread, like early 2013, their loss would be even much bigger

Edited January 2, 2014 by PeterSmiles

[fletchsmile]

Any update how much money the the defenders of the Thai stock market in this thread have made since the thread started ?

the thread started Sun Sep30,

SET close FRI Sep27 = 1,417.49,

SET close today = 1,230.77

result: index minus 186.72 = -13.17%

note: that the index is down does not necessarily imply that investors in individual stocks made a loss. they might have even made a profit.

I think you've been looking at the Klingon calendar again 30 Sep was a Friday and the close was 1383.16. Or perhaps it was the vintage port...

Happy New Year to you Naam and Best Wishes for 2014 and onwards

Cheers Fletch

[fletchsmile]

^^Not an entirely fair question. What you should have asked is how much they made since they bought in.

Because of this post

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/671220-does-anyone-have-investments-in-thai-market/?p=6900469

Reading charts is a tricky matter. I see from this chart the market will go up

By the way if they bought before the start of this thread, like early 2013, their loss would be even much bigger

As Naam says it also depends on what you bought as well as when.

If I took my main 5 Thai funds: 2 had small negative returns in 2013 - but better than the SET index though which was down nearly 7% - and 3 had positive returns, for an overall positive return from 1 Jan (earlier than the start of the thread) to 31 Dec 2013

To 31 Dec 2013 my own returns

2 years are more like 50%;

5 years 260% to 290%;

since Dec 2000 more like 1,200%

or an annualised 20% p.a since I started buying

Worst year for me on Thai equities was 2008 down a bit under 40% (compared to 47.6% drop in the index) so current status is just minor hiccups for now...

Cheers Fletch

[PeterSmiles]

^^Not an entirely fair question. What you should have asked is how much they made since they bought in.

Because of this post

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/671220-does-anyone-have-investments-in-thai-market/?p=6900469

Reading charts is a tricky matter. I see from this chart the market will go up

By the way if they bought before the start of this thread, like early 2013, their loss would be even much bigger

As Naam says it also depends on what you bought as well as when.

If I took my main 5 Thai funds: 2 had small negative returns in 2013 - but better than the SET index though which was down nearly 7% - and 3 had positive returns, for an overall positive return from 1 Jan (earlier than the start of the thread) to 31 Dec 2013

To 31 Dec 2013 my own returns

2 years are more like 50%;

5 years 260% to 290%;

since Dec 2000 more like 1,200%

or an annualised 20% p.a since I started buying

Worst year for me on Thai equities was 2008 down a bit under 40% (compared to 47.6% drop in the index) so current status is just minor hiccups for now...

Cheers Fletch

I assume that with Thai funds, you mean mutual funds.

Would you mind to tell us if they are Thailand based mutual funds or Foreign based mutual funds that invest in Thai stocks/bonds.

Even some names would be appreciated.

[fletchsmile]

I assume that with Thai funds, you mean mutual funds.

Would you mind to tell us if they are Thailand based mutual funds or Foreign based mutual funds that invest in Thai stocks/bonds.

Even some names would be appreciated.

Yes mutual funds/ unit trusts. Thailand based in THB, although I do hold other Thailand funds outside Thailand, I find generally it's better to hold them here...

Cut and paste from this thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/640408-set-index-and-thai-mutual-funds/page-11

- Aberdeen Growth down 2.8%

- Aberdeen LTF down 5.0% (excluding the 30%+ tax relief for the year of course as my chosen LTF for 2013. Still in the money if the tax is included, and it always provides a nice cushion against uncertainties)

- ING/ UOB Thai Equity up 3.1%

- ING/ UOB Good Corp Governance LTF up 6.0%

- ING/UOB Big Cap Thai Div LTF up 0.3% (excluding a div of over 8% which compares handsomely with an average yield of over 3% on the index, for around 9% total return)

Cheers

Fletch

Edited January 2, 2014 by fletchsmile