Supreme Court To Decide Whether To Nullify Election In Unprecedented Meeting

[ando]

Again, events of 1973, 1976, and 1992 show that Bangkokians CAN and WILL stand up for what is right. It's the "poor who have nothing to lose" are usually easily bullied by the government. It's a philosphical question, maybe they are afraid to lose what little they have, whereas Bangkokians think that they can get back on their feet no matter what.

Perhaps you will find the following link interesting.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/Election20...news=040205.htm

Its an article by none other than The Nations political analyst prior to the 2005 elections.

It suggests that TRT is not playing by traditional Thai rules in not going to that election on the basis of some social evil that requires revolutionary change. Thaksin did indeed outsmart the democrats by spending money to benefit the majority of voters. Something that apparently is considered unsporting in traditional Thai politics of recent decades, but considered an essential part of democracy in most developed countries. Thaksin simply wooed the majority of voters, who just happened to live outside Bangkok, and won the election convincingly.

The biggest problem with the Democrats are that they are still stuck in the old revolutionary days of coups and counter coups. They have no policies that appeal to the majority of voters. They really haven't grasped the concept of democracy as meaning government by those with the greatest support. They persue their (honourable) ideals in the hope that some royal decree or popular up rising among the educated city dwelling minority will gain them power. Its not going to happen.

The majority of Thailand's voters are out there in the boondocks and their vote is as good as an educated Bangkokian in a democracy. Until the Democrats start at the beginning and get elected democratically like Thaksin did, they can not ever hope to bring about the the political reforms they are now touting as their main platform.

Get the votes first. Then bring about reform. Thats the way it works in in a democracy. Someone should explain that to the Democrats. Thaksin figured it out a couple of elections back.

[sriracha john]

More huge news...

Court suspend third rounds of election on Saturday

The Administrative Court has ordered injunction against the third round of elections in 14 constituencies scheduled for Saturday pending a trial which asked for nullifying the April 2 election.

The trial was filed by Dr Pramual Wirutasen to the court, alleging that the direction of voting booths in the April 2 election is violating the constitution.

The charter stipulates that a voting should be direct and confidential. However the alleged direction of the booths allow others to see the ballot papers.

- TN

[jezchesters]

If they do, as expected, nullify the recent elections I wouldn't expect it to simply go back to "a point in time" with TRT back in government and Thaksin as PM. There is bound to be some compromise expected from the waring parties.

Now that the King has spoken, I think the courts will try to solve this mess by bringing the parties together and getting certain undertakings from them in order to ensure a peaceful and democratic lead up to the next election without civil unrest (including street protests). I think the peace will be brokered as much by negotiation as by proclamation. The options, I imagine would include an undertaking by Thaksin to honor his promise not to accept the PM position in any new government, and an undertaking from PAD/Democrat leaders not to conduct further street protests in the interim.

But the courts would need to have a big stick to wave if the parties choose to dishonor such agreement. If Thaskin chose to go back on his agreement after the election (assuming TRT wins),he would be very easy to deal with. He could be simply removed by the courts. However if the mobs take to the streets again, it would be a lot harder to deal with. Simply locking up the leaders wouldn't necessarily stop mass protests. Rather, it would probably enrage them more. Without established leaders, more radical leaders could gain power and cause the mob to move from peaceful protest to violent protest. This situation would not be allowed to happen and I am sure the threat of martial law endorsed in advance by the courts would avert such occurrence.

The PAD/Democrat protesters are not the down trodden poor who have nothing to loose. They are mainly middle class Thais who seized on a political opportunity at the time. Only a bare handful would dare to defy the law when the going gets really tough. They would be easily disbursed by a show of force if that became necessary.

I am only guessing how it might go. But I seriously doubt it will go much differently.

ando, what exeactly have you got against the democratic right to peacefully protest? Are you saying that, although its OK to do it in Australia, Europe, the USA etc, its not OK to do it in Thailand? The right to protest is one of the prime requisits of any democratic society.

[ColPyat]

ando, what exeactly have you got against the democratic right to peacefully protest? Are you saying that, although its OK to do it in Australia, Europe, the USA etc, its not OK to do it in Thailand? The right to protest is one of the prime requisits of any democratic society.

Not easy to answer.

A few issues i see here. One is, that the aim of the demonstrations was to overthrow a by the maority elected government. Also, the demonstrations have brought the country to the brink of collapse, have caused considerable economical harm. And, as we see every day, the crises is far from over.

The big problem is that Thailand is an emerging democracy, and cannot really be compared with established democracies in the countries you mentioned.

[jezchesters]

ando, what exeactly have you got against the democratic right to peacefully protest? Are you saying that, although its OK to do it in Australia, Europe, the USA etc, its not OK to do it in Thailand? The right to protest is one of the prime requisits of any democratic society.

Not easy to answer.

A few issues i see here. One is, that the aim of the demonstrations was to overthrow a by the maority elected government. Also, the demonstrations have brought the country to the brink of collapse, have caused considerable economical harm. And, as we see every day, the crises is far from over.

The big problem is that Thailand is an emerging democracy, and cannot really be compared with established democracies in the countries you mentioned.

The point is not one of comparison. It is extremely dangerous to advocate the use of violence to crack down on any form of protest. Once this happens it sets a precedent, enabling any future government to use violence to quell any future protest. Well, as long as it can be explained as 'being necessary to avoid political instability'.

[Hermano Lobo]

If there is a new election does anybody know if PAD intend to field candidates ?

[ColPyat]

The point is not one of comparison. It is extremely dangerous to advocate the use of violence to crack down on any form of protest. Once this happens it sets a precedent, enabling any future government to use violence to quell any future protest. Well, as long as it can be explained as 'being necessary to avoid political instability'.

It is equally dangerous that demonstrations can bring the country close to collapse.

Also in the west there is a point when peaceful demonstrations get dispursed with violent means when they become too much of a public nuisance.

[ando]

ando, what exeactly have you got against the democratic right to peacefully protest? Are you saying that, although its OK to do it in Australia, Europe, the USA etc, its not OK to do it in Thailand? The right to protest is one of the prime requisits of any democratic society.

I think you already know that such a sustained level of protest which virtually amounted to a blockade of the nations democratically elected leader would never be tolerated in advanced democracies like USA, Briton, Australia or Europe. Just wouldn't be allowed to continue, so dont kid yourself there. A one day march maybe, but certainly not the same sort of thing that went on in Bangkok. I really think the PAD were hoping for a confrontation in order to gain international attention and sympathy for their cause. Thaksin didn't play their game and it all went down with only occasional, minor mentions in the international news.

Thailand is a third world country and is in a transitional stage between accepting established western practices of democracy and changes of government by mass protest and pseudo-popular uprisings. Thank goodness Thailand has progressed far enough down the the path of democracy now that civil unrest by a tiny minority can not change a democratically elected government. Both the military and the Monarchy have distanced themselves from interfence in the democratic process. That can only be a good thing for democracy. Sooner or later the democrats will realize that they have to go out there and win votes if they want to get into government and implement their "ideals". (Sorry, I almost said "policies", but I dont think they have any).

Unfortunately since Bangkok is 50 times larger than the next largest city in Thailand (Chang Mai), and is also the stronghold of old style thinking in line with democrat ideology, it is easy for the democrats to raise a very impressive show of support which doesn't necessarily reflect the wishes of the majority of Thai voters. The only protest that counts in a democracy is at the ballot box, and that has already shown overwhelming majority support for TRT. The PAD street protests may have been tolerated in Thailand due to their unique political position, but dont try to kid yourself that such things would have been tolerated for long in any mainstream western democracy.

[Thaible]

The PAD were obviously trying to start a war.

They pushed as much as possible to instigate violence. They blocked the Government House to create anarchy in the country and keep it from functioning. They were even going to go to Thaksin's house and attack him personally. Try doing that to the White House or George Bush's personal home and see what happens!

[sriracha john]

The PAD were obviously trying to start a war.

They pushed as much as possible to instigate violence.

They blocked the Government House to create anarchy in the country and keep it from functioning.

They were even going to go to Thaksin's house and attack him personally.

Do these imagined events happen anywhere outside the deep confines of your own cerebrum's misfiring neurons?

[cclub75]

The PAD were obviously trying to start a war.

They pushed as much as possible to instigate violence. They blocked the Government House to create anarchy in the country and keep it from functioning. They were even going to go to Thaksin's house and attack him personally. Try doing that to the White House or George Bush's personal home and see what happens!

Yeah !

Thaible... another total winner in the "troll" contest.

White house ? Attack ?.... Stop smoking. And drinking. It's bad for your heart.

Anyway, and if you are not a troll (who knows, you might be.... REAL), the third round of elections tomorrow were canceled by the Administrative court. All the process is a farce. I mean : now it's official.

Ouch ! That must hurt... all Toxic's fans, non ?

What do you think ?

[taxexile]

Do these imagined events happen anywhere outside the deep confines of your own cerebrum's misfiring neurons?

sneers of such a high calibre as the above are , sadly , becoming a rarity these days on the new clean green politically correct all things to all people lets not offend anybody , especially the advertisers , thai visa.

thank you sri racha john for restoring my faith in the rapidly disappearing art of the vicious sneering put down.

wonderful stuff. delivered straight from the hip with class and confidence.

[jdinasia]

The PAD were obviously trying to start a war.

They pushed as much as possible to instigate violence.

They blocked the Government House to create anarchy in the country and keep it from functioning.

They were even going to go to Thaksin's house and attack him personally.

Do these imagined events happen anywhere outside the deep confines of your own cerebrum's misfiring neurons?

lol ... read this guys posts all the way through from early on ... claims to be Thai .. no wait farang etc etc gotta love him

[jdinasia]

The point is not one of comparison. It is extremely dangerous to advocate the use of violence to crack down on any form of protest. Once this happens it sets a precedent, enabling any future government to use violence to quell any future protest. Well, as long as it can be explained as 'being necessary to avoid political instability'.

It is equally dangerous that demonstrations can bring the country close to collapse.

Also in the west there is a point when peaceful demonstrations get dispursed with violent means when they become too much of a public nuisance.

HUH?

WHEN and WHERE in the "West" do peaceful protests get dispursed* violently?

They might get moved from some place like in front a 1 building ... back to an open space like Sanam Luang ... but even then probably not.

Though it is kinda cool that PAD pulled off what they were trying to do ... and did it peacefully ....

For all the whining the total amount of "violence" at the PAD rallies was less than what one could expect to see any ONE night in RCA or Ratchada etc!

[jdinasia]

If there is a new election does anybody know if PAD intend to field candidates ?

The PAD is not a political party ... so no

[sriracha john]

Do these imagined events happen anywhere outside the deep confines of your own cerebrum's misfiring neurons?

sneers of such a high calibre as the above are , sadly , becoming a rarity these days on the new clean green politically correct all things to all people lets not offend anybody , especially the advertisers , thai visa.

thank you sri racha john for restoring my faith in the rapidly disappearing art of the vicious sneering put down.

wonderful stuff. delivered straight from the hip with class and confidence.

Thank you. Coming from a Master of the Art like yourself, that's a nice compliment.

Quite noticeable changes over the past two years, eh?

I recall some downright brutal ones.

Well... anyway, gotta keep these new guys honest... seems just about anything can go unchallenged these days.

[Hermano Lobo]

If there is a new election does anybody know if PAD intend to field candidates ?

The PAD is not a political party ... so no

With a name like Thai Rak Thai I doubt whether they are much of a political party either?

Daft name !

[ColPyat]

WHEN and WHERE in the "West" do peaceful protests get dispursed* violently?

Anywhere.

Typcal example: Demonstrators blockade peacefully a road in which nuclear waste is to be transported. Police asks demonstrators to disperse. Demonstrators stay, police carries the peaceful demonstrators away and arrests them, and uses violence against the ones who resist. Happens all the time in Europe.

The only reason why police has not yet here in Thailand ordered the demonstrators to disperse is because the government wants to avoid an escalation of violence ending in scores of dead.

Nevertheless, if for some reason the demonstrations keep blocking public life again, there might be one day a clear evaluation of the situation, in which the damage done by the demonstrations might overshadow the possible consequences of a violent dispersal.

[Plus]

Or maybe police didn't disperse the demonstrations because they didn't break any laws and didn't obstruct any legitimate government functions. The only thing that might be counted against PAD is the blockade of EC offices.

Even then PAD protesters didn't threaten to rape all female EC staff, as pro-Thaksin protesters did on the very same day when they blockaded Nation's offices.

If police were to crack down on any demonstrations, it's the Thaksin supporters who should have been restrained by force. Whether when preventing pregnant women from leaving their offices (Nation's blockade), hitting people on the head with chairs and punching journalists (Chiang Mai), throwing missiles and flammable objects (Manager's offices), or blockading PAD speeches with threats of violences, led by government MPs elect (Udon).

[ando]

The street protects were tolerated in order to avoid bloodshed and in order to avoid giving PAD the international publicity they were seeking.

The difference between most protest marches in the west and the recent ones in Bangkok is the prolonged nature of the PAD protest.

All that needed to happen to make the protest illegal is for the police to order the crowd to disburse. And we all know how it would have gone down from there. Blocking public thoroughfares and disrupting traffic is illegal in most countries including Thailand. The Police had the power to take action to disburse the protesters at any time.

I am sure we have all seen protesters being disbursed by police in many western countries. Its been done many times.

Perhaps Thailand will be ordering tear gas, rubber bullets, water cannons and riot shields from these western democracies who some here would allege wouldn't act if tens of thousands of protesters were blocking city streets for days and weeks.

Just because the police choose not to act does not mean the protesters broke no laws.

If PAD are silly enough to take to the streets again the authorities may not be so tolerant again.

[sriracha john]

Likewise, if the pro-Thaksin camp of protestors, which has shown infinitely more propensity to commit violence than PAD, resumes their protests, you might get your wish to see the blood-letting.

If, however, Thaksin has any honor left and decides to fulfill his promise to resign... all these talks of protests in the street are moot as they won't be happening. Sorry to disappoint you.

Edited April 28, 2006 by sriracha john

[Thaible]

The PAD were obviously trying to start a war.

They pushed as much as possible to instigate violence. They blocked the Government House to create anarchy in the country and keep it from functioning. They were even going to go to Thaksin's house and attack him personally. Try doing that to the White House or George Bush's personal home and see what happens!

Yeah !

Thaible... another total winner in the "troll" contest.

White house ? Attack ?.... Stop smoking. And drinking. It's bad for your heart.

Anyway, and if you are not a troll (who knows, you might be.... REAL), the third round of elections tomorrow were canceled by the Administrative court. All the process is a farce. I mean : now it's official.

Ouch ! That must hurt... all Toxic's fans, non ?

What do you think ?

Sondhi being arrested for lese majeste is equivalent to attempted treason. The police here, and much higher powers, obviously agree with me that what the PAD did was much more than a simple protest.

The real trolls are people like you who make ad hominem attacks on pro-democracy supporters and make up false accusations against a democratically-elected PM.

In the end, democracy has won and anarchists like you will hopefully be forced to leave Thailand.

[ando]

Likewise, if the pro-Thaksin camp of protestors, which has shown infinitely more propensity to commit violence than PAD, resumes their protests, you might get your wish to see the blood-letting.

If, however, Thaksin has any honor left and decides to fulfill his promise to resign... all these talks of protests in the street are moot as they won't be happening. Sorry to disappoint you.

When did Thaksin promise to resign?

As far as I am aware all he promised was that he wouldnt run for PM in the next government.

PADs threats of taking to the streets again if Thaksin comes back as PM is just tough-talk about something that is unlikely to even happen. Without the threat of civil disruption PAD have very little bargaining power in the current crisis. Thaksin has said he wont be PM in the next government and that should be the end of it. Without a cause to fight for, PAD becomes pretty much a non-player in the next election. So, in order to keep themselves in the limelight, they have projected a hypothetical situation (in the media) where the evil Thaksin seizes the leadership back and the PAD go back to the streets bigger and better than ever. What were their words? "it wont be beautiful"? I assume this is a poor translation for -- "and it wont be pretty". Certainly a threat. Because without threats of civil disruption PAD has nothing much to offer. Thaksin has out maneuvered PAD. I doubt we will be hearing too much of PAD in the lead up to the next election bar a few more hypotheticals and threats. They are virtually a spent force now. They had their moment of glory, even though they failed to remove Thaksin from politics they did have a small win in getting him to promise to step aside as PM in the next government.

Circumstances have changed now. Getting a functional government back in place is now the big issue, not the PADs campaign to force Thaksin out of politics. The PAD leaders should just cut their losses and count their gains, and then slink away gracefully into the background and let the country get on with the electoral process. Sadly though, the PAD leaders have had a little taste of power and dont want to give it up. I believe its likely that they will try to find some excuse for another street protest in order to revive their bargining position. However I also believe that only a relative handful of the faithfull will follow in these changed circumstances now.

[sriracha john]

Likewise, if the pro-Thaksin camp of protestors, which has shown infinitely more propensity to commit violence than PAD, resumes their protests, you might get your wish to see the blood-letting.

If, however, Thaksin has any honor left and decides to fulfill his promise to resign... all these talks of protests in the street are moot as they won't be happening. Sorry to disappoint you.

When did Thaksin promise to resign?

As far as I am aware all he promised was that he wouldnt run for PM in the next government.

PADs threats of taking to the streets again if Thaksin comes back as PM is just tough-talk about something that is unlikely to even happen. Without the threat of civil disruption PAD have very little bargaining power in the current crisis. Thaksin has said he wont be PM in the next government and that should be the end of it. Without a cause to fight for, PAD becomes pretty much a non-player in the next election. So, in order to keep themselves in the limelight, they have projected a hypothetical situation (in the media) where the evil Thaksin seizes the leadership back and the PAD go back to the streets bigger and better than ever. What were their words? "it wont be beautiful"? I assume this is a poor translation for -- "and it wont be pretty". Certainly a threat. Because without threats of civil disruption PAD has nothing much to offer. Thaksin has out maneuvered PAD. I doubt we will be hearing too much of PAD in the lead up to the next election bar a few more hypotheticals and threats. They are virtually a spent force now. They had their moment of glory, even though they failed to remove Thaksin from politics they did have a small win in getting him to promise to step aside as PM in the next government.

Circumstances have changed now. Getting a functional government back in place is now the big issue, not the PADs campaign to force Thaksin out of politics. The PAD leaders should just cut their losses and count their gains, and then slink away gracefully into the background and let the country get on with the electoral process. Sadly though, the PAD leaders have had a little taste of power and dont want to give it up. I believe its likely that they will try to find some excuse for another street protest in order to revive their bargining position. However I also believe that only a relative handful of the faithfull will follow in these changed circumstances now.

Thaksin himself says he's "unemployed."

I agree his quitting should be the end of it. Nothing wrong with PAD voicing their skepticism as to his word, which as history has shown repeatedly, is questionable. I do hope he follows through on it.

Thaksin hasn't out-manuvered anyone. He's the one that quit. That was what PAD wanted from the beginning. Indeed, they DID achieve their goal and if you consider the PM quitting a "small win," that's fine.

I'm glad we do agree that PAD isn't the issue anymore and having new elections are.

We can all thank the PAD for having the courage to get the despotic tyrant out through their pesistance. I'm sure they would thank you for your enthusiastic endorsement for achieving their lofty goals.

[Jai Dee]

The Administrative Court has ordered suspension of by-elections in 14 constituencies today

By-elections scheduled in 14 constituencies of nine provinces today have been cancelled following a ruling by the Administrative Court to hold up the elections pending its investigation into the lawsuit alleging that the April 2 general election was not carried out in a fair and honest way.

The court yesterday ruled that the lawsuit filed by Medical Doctor Photipong Banluewong (โพธิพงศ์ บรรลือวงศ์) and 9 other people has ground and agreed to suspend the by-elections temporaily until other orders were issued. The Election Commission of Thailand has circulated an urgent message to convey the court’s decision to the election commision of the provinces where by- elections were scheduled.The Election Commission said it will ask the Constitutional Court to interpret the EC power and will also appeal to the Administrative Court against the order to suspend the elections. As a result of the Administrative Court’s ruling, the EC said it has to postpone indefinitely the recognition for the victory of general and senatorial election candidates.

Mr. Photipong, meanwhile, welcomed the court decision, saying the result was an encouragement. It made him feel the court can still be relied on. He said he has filed another lawsuit against the EC’s decision to allow Mr. Somchai Photalae (สมชาย โพธิทะเล), a Thai Rak Thai candidate who had been earlier deprived of the right to run in the election, to register in constituency 3 of Samut Sakhon Province.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 29 April 2006

[sriracha john]

Mr. Photipong, meanwhile, welcomed the court decision, saying the result was an encouragement. It made him feel the court can still be relied on. He said he has filed another lawsuit against the EC’s decision to allow Mr. Somchai Photalae (สมชาย โพธิทะเล), a Thai Rak Thai candidate who had been earlier deprived of the right to run in the election, to register in constituency 3 of Samut Sakhon Province.

Good for you, Dr. Photiphong...

Keep 'em honest. I know that's no easy task and we appreciate your continued efforts. The dingbat lost his right to run for office. Let's keep it that way.

[jdinasia]

WHEN and WHERE in the "West" do peaceful protests get dispursed* violently?

Anywhere.

Typcal example: Demonstrators blockade peacefully a road in which nuclear waste is to be transported. Police asks demonstrators to disperse. Demonstrators stay, police carries the peaceful demonstrators away and arrests them, and uses violence against the ones who resist. Happens all the time in Europe.

The only reason why police has not yet here in Thailand ordered the demonstrators to disperse is because the government wants to avoid an escalation of violence ending in scores of dead.

Nevertheless, if for some reason the demonstrations keep blocking public life again, there might be one day a clear evaluation of the situation, in which the damage done by the demonstrations might overshadow the possible consequences of a violent dispersal.

Yeppers that is an AMAZING comparison ... a few protestors outside a privately run or state run NUCLEAR power plant .... with the stretch to say they <the police> use violence when resisted ....

compared to a Public open space in Bangkok with 100's of thousands of people protesting the sitting PM etc. Has anyone ever mentioned apples and oranges? or using specious counter arguments?

think about the USA ... recently and even MORE people protesting peacefully .. and no police action required.

[ColPyat]

Yeppers that is an AMAZING comparison ... a few protestors outside a privately run or state run NUCLEAR power plant .... with the stretch to say they <the police> use violence when resisted ....

compared to a Public open space in Bangkok with 100's of thousands of people protesting the sitting PM etc. Has anyone ever mentioned apples and oranges? or using specious counter arguments?

The point was that people claimed that in the west peaceful demonstrations would not be violently dispersed, nothing else. I could use any other example, and still we get to the point that when peaceful demonstrations turn into a public nuisance, they will get dispersed in the west, and if necessary by violent means.

Blocking main streets, blocking the government house would very fast see a violent reaction of the authorities in the west.

Or, taking the USA, as you suggested, can you see anti Bush demonstrators blocking for weeks every entrance of the White House, so that Bush has to conduct his business from somewhere else? I doubt that.

Well, even though your exageration (not even one protest of the PAD has reached the 100K mark, according to the police) it should be even more reason to disperse the demonstrations as they do considerable more harm than "a few protestors outside a privately run or state run NUCLEAR power plant ".

[jdinasia]

according to the foriegn press they have ....

in the USA ... like here ... people would be asked to assemble at the Quad (as has been done) .... but look to the Mexican Americans etc that have rallied over the latest months ....

very simply ... I have not seen places in the "West" violently dispersing peaceful protests anywhere ....

though in some cases of civil disobedience like chaining oneself to a gate of a powerplant ... (a true act of civil disobedience ... not in fact a peaceful protest) people HAVE been removed peacefully

Your singlemindedness in making out people who gather peacefully to protest a government (or in this case really just Thaksin and his cronies) into a mob out to harm the country they love is to be admired .... not many people could manage to take the same lame point and continually harp on it and not end up giggling uncontrollably! Kudos to you!

[ColPyat]

very simply ... I have not seen places in the "West" violently dispersing peaceful protests anywhere ....

You have already suffentiently proven that there is a lot you appearantly don't see.

Such as existing newspaper articles on events that happened but you didn't see, or the proper time line of the protests and Sondhi's demands...