Civil Partnership Visa

[logansmith]

My Thai partner has applied for a Civil Partnership visa to come back to the UK with me when I return to my job in July. We intend then to register for a civil partnership. Our relationship has been for approx. 18 months most of this time we have actually been living together here in Thailand while I have been on unpaid leave from my employment. He has been issued 2 tourist visas to the UK where he has now met most of my family. My employment contract in the UK says that I must return to my post by 3rd July in order for me to keep my job. As far as I can see we provided the Embassy here in Bangkok with all the required information and have just heard that my partner must attend a long interview on 26th June (just one week before I must return to my job).

Does a long interview mean that his chances of getting a visa are quite small, it is just that I have heard that a short interview means that the chances of a visa being issued are quite high?

This is all so very diificult, we have already explained to the embassy in our written application that if he is not granted his visa, we could not face the thought of being separated and means I would have to consider staying in Thailand. The result in this would be that I could lose my job in the UK and then would not be able to provide evidence of employment and therefore may not be able to re-apply.

Please please please someone tell me that I am worrying too much about this and these long interviews can be a possitive thing......

I look forward to your responses.

Thank you

[GU22]

A short interview is when all the documents satisfy the ECO so that they are "minded to grant" the visa. A long interview means that the documents supplied do not fully satisfy the ECO, and there are some further questions that they want to ask to clarify some points.

In many instances, although it's called a long interview (by us, not by the embassy), it can be quite short. My wife had a 'long' interview, it lasted all of 10 minutes and she was asked just 5 questions. The fifth one being "When can you come back to collect the visa?"

Relax.

[the phoenix2]

Whatever anyone here or elsewhere tells you, you are of course unfortunately in for 2 months of stress and worry until the interview date. In itself its obviously not good news, but neither does it mean you are to be refused.

You say you have provided all the information they require. It occurs to me that as you have been living in Thailand most of the time , they may just need to check that your accomodation in the UK meets the criteria . Presumably you have provided documentary proof of all this . And that your finances are up to scratch as you have been on unpaid leave they may just have to ask a bit more about this too.

Your boyfriend has had 2 visits already and this has to be very very positive for you . Its probably not relevant, but its just possible that if you didn't mention your relationship on those 2 previous occasions , they may be a bit miffed by that and want to question him in the long interview just to satisfy themselves he is 100% honest this time . If you did mention it then no probs at all.

From the limited information given it sounds like you don't have any obvious problems , just go through your paperwork once more and see if there is anything slightly weak in it , and if so you have 2 months to address it . You will have the chance to submit more documents if you wish to.

They will not care about your personal circumstances , of losing your job or of you having to live in Thailand if the visa is refused. So forget appealing to their better nature, concentrate instead on getting your documents watertight.

Incidentally i successfully obtained a Civil Partnership visa for my boyfriend this year . It is actually one of the easier visas to get as it is largely factual. Concentrate on proving intention to marry and staying together in the UK as these are not factual. One thing you could do is to provisionally book your wedding with the Town Hall in the UK. They may not be able to do this until he has the visa , so ask for a letter which states you have tried. It is quite an important document as it shows intention to marry and that you have made that extra effort.

When you have done that , try to relax . As you are a genuine couple you will almost certainly get it no problems.

[GU22]

Well done, Silomfan. A positive post with some good, useful advice.

See, you can do it if you try.

[the phoenix2]

Well done, Silomfan. A positive post with some good, useful advice.

See, you can do it if you try.

Thank you

[logansmith]

Thank you so very much for your answer it is certainly putting a few things straight in my head

Whatever anyone here or elsewhere tells you, you are of course unfortunately in for 2 months of stress and worry until the interview date. In itself its obviously not good news, but neither does it mean you are to be refused.

You say you have provided all the information they require. It occurs to me that as you have been living in Thailand most of the time , they may just need to check that your accomodation in the UK meets the criteria . Presumably you have provided documentary proof of all this . And that your finances are up to scratch as you have been on unpaid leave they may just have to ask a bit more about this too.

Well we thought we had given them all the information they require and still believe that to some extent. But when I got back to the apartment today the official letter with the appointment had arrived. It seems to be a standard letter with the blanks filled in. The first thing I noticed was they have ticked the type of visa applied for as a "settlement visa", I would have thought that either the "marriage" or "other type" visa would have been more appropriate. I was under the impression that a "settlement visa" was for people who want to settle in UK without a partner???

In with the appointment letter was some standard text asking us to provide some information that we have already provided like current and previous passports!!! In the standard text it mentions evidence of sole occupancy for accommodation. Because when I moved to Bangkok over one year ago I sold my house and kept the profit in a high interest bank account to use as a deposit when I returned. In order to cover this my mother has agreed and supplied a letter to say we can live with her until we can complete contracts on a house purchase, I would have thought that this would sufficient??

Your boyfriend has had 2 visits already and this has to be very very positive for you . Its probably not relevant, but its just possible that if you didn't mention your relationship on those 2 previous occasions , they may be a bit miffed by that and want to question him in the long interview just to satisfy themselves he is 100% honest this time . If you did mention it then no probs at all.

In previous applications he applied for his tourist visa and indicated me as a friend not a boyfriend. This is good to know that this be one of the reasons for a long interview.

From the limited information given it sounds like you don't have any obvious problems , just go through your paperwork once more and see if there is anything slightly weak in it , and if so you have 2 months to address it . You will have the chance to submit more documents if you wish to.

They will not care about your personal circumstances , of losing your job or of you having to live in Thailand if the visa is refused. So forget appealing to their better nature, concentrate instead on getting your documents watertight.

Incidentally i successfully obtained a Civil Partnership visa for my boyfriend this year . It is actually one of the easier visas to get as it is largely factual. Concentrate on proving intention to marry and staying together in the UK as these are not factual. One thing you could do is to provisionally book your wedding with the Town Hall in the UK. They may not be able to do this until he has the visa , so ask for a letter which states you have tried. It is quite an important document as it shows intention to marry and that you have made that extra effort.

When you have done that , try to relax . As you are a genuine couple you will almost certainly get it no problems.

I cannot emphasise enough how much we are a genuine couple. I also realise it is not you that we have to prove that too. My partner is constantly worried how people view him in having a Farrang boyfriend. He is also very concerned the way the government officials treat him at the embassy. He has mentioned that during his first interview for a tourist visa, the Thai interperator did not always interperate correctly. But he is becoming more assertive, is that a good thing or not????

Once again thank you for your comments you do not know how much it helps to discuss this. I am also letting my boyfriend know what you are saying and it helps .

Thanks again.

[the scouser]

Logansmith,

Regarding accommodation, the immigration rules state that it has to be occupied exclusively by you and your partner. This does not mean that you need your own place, but, rather, that you must have at least one room for your sole use in a shared house. Consequently, as well as confimimg that she is happy for you and your partner to stay with her, your mother will have to satisfy the visa officer that the house is big enough. She should therefore state in her letter how many bedrooms the property has and how many people currently live therein. She might also which to provide some evidence of her ownership/rental of the house.

The visa for which your partner has applied is rightly termed a settlement visa as it will ultimately lead to him being settled in the UK.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[GU22]

In with the appointment letter was some standard text asking us to provide some information that we have already provided like current and previous passports!!!

As you say, it is a standard letter, sent to everyone who requires an interview. If you supplied the requested documents with the application, and they haven't been returned to you, then they still have them. But if they returned them to you then take them to the interview.

In previous applications he applied for his tourist visa and indicated me as a friend not a boyfriend. This is good to know that this be one of the reasons for a long interview.

They may ask why he was a friend then and a boyfriend now. It is not unreasonable for a friend to become, over time, a boyfriend. So he simply tells the truth. Friends then, partners now.

He has mentioned that during his first interview for a tourist visa, the Thai interpretor did not always interpret correctly.

I have heard this before, and it is a possible genuine area of complaint if true. Remember, if he is confident enough with his English he can ask for the interview to be conducted in English. Even with an interpreter, if he feels that what he said is being incorrectly interpreted there is nothing to stop him interrupting and saying, in English, "That's not what I said."

[logansmith]

Thanks for all those that have contributed to my first posting. We are still waiting for the interview which is scheduled for next week. Me and my partner are obviously getting very anxious even though we have submitted a true application. We have been 100% honest on this settlement visa application. The only thing that may go against us is the fact that by boyfriend did not openly admit that we were boyfriends on previous successfull tourist visas. My thai boyfriend, at the time, had a big issue with identifying as being gay. So he just said we were friends. This was over 1 year ago now and since we have been living together in Thailand for more than 1 year his confidence with his identity has improved. He has now told his parents and family and some of his closer friends that he is gay. We have submitted all the required documents, we have given evidence of my employment which continues with a UK government department on 3rd July evidence of my savings and also a 6 month contract for a tenancy for a 1 bedroomed flat, this would give us enough time to buy a property. We both hope that all this will suffice, we just do not know what we will do if we will have to separate. What do you guys think about the issue to do with his past tourist visa?

[GU22]

Simply tell him to tell the truth.

If the only discrepancy between what was said for the tourist visa and what is being said now is that then you were friends and now you are partners then that is easily explained. Relationships develop over time.

Edited June 19, 2006 by GU22

[caledonia]

From what you have said I am sure you will be fine - for all we know maybe they have to satisfy stats on long interviews and you were just one of the unlucky ones. My hubby's experiance of a long interview was the same as GU22's spouse - he was in and out in ten mins and most of that time was them just flicking through our file.

You sound very prepared and as GU22 rightly points out - relationships do develop over time and that may well be how your boyfriend presents it to the ECO.

Good luck and let us know how you get on!

[atlastaname]

Sounds like you have covered as much as you possibly can and have prepared very well. I think your previous slight deception over the friend/ boyfriend bit is easily explained as he can truthfully say that he was uncomfortable with discussing this and felt easier putting you down as friends. You will not be the first do have done that !!

You are luckier than most couples in that you have been able to be together whilst all this stressful time is passing slowly and thats a huge plus for your relationship.

Nothing at all that you have posted indicates you should have any problems at all apart from the minor one discussed above . I wish you all the best and hope you get the visa next week. You can then look forward to a very happy week after that in Thailand packing and preparing to fly back to the UK to start your new lives together.

Please keep us informed as to the result.

[logansmith]

We are so upset, actually we are devostated, our application was refused due to the fact that we lied on the previous tourist visa applications. Although this was not an out right lie as previously explained. My partner admitted and apologised for not saying we were boyfriends before and how he had a problem identifying as gay, but this was not acceptable, as this contridicted the amount of time he stated we have actually been boyfriends. The reply was 'there is not a problem around being gay in Thailand......' My partner explained that he is from a small village North Thailand and it was a problem for him. It was also stated that bank accounts shown on previous tourist applications which were in joint names with my previous partner of 2 years ago (which we did not bother to change at the time because of our 20 year relationship and we were still friends and still trusted one another) were the same bank accounts that we gave for the current settlement visa. (hope that bit makes sence!!). We have the appeals form and don't know what to do? We have been told that the appeals procedure can take anything from 3 months to 3 years to settle. We have been told we are better off submitting a new application actually stating that our previous applications were not 100% correct and changing the bank accounts to just my name. Which option should we take or can we do both??? Please help?? We realise, because of my job committment I will have to return to the UK without my partner, the thought of it just turns my stomach especially after living together and becoming so close after the past 12 months. What should we do???

[atlastaname]

What a terrible result for you . Actually i have been in the same position as you before ( a situation now happily resolved) so you can believe me when i say i know exactly how you feel. Its a stomach churning feeling all right and you now have an awful last week together which , believe me , will be absolute misery.

Were they the only 2 reasons it was turned down? The first is just plain silly and the second is explainable although in hindsight you must admit it was daft not to have sorted out your bank statements before this .

Firstly you must immediately write to the ECM(manager) at the BE and tell him that you want the decision reviewed. You could also try phoning and asking to speak to him . I did this before and they will take your calls . Point out that you are leaving next week for England , not that they will care a jot about that .

The ECM will reply after reviewing the case , although understand that they already have a pre-printed stock letter that will say that he has reviewed it and is upholding the refusal. Unless you can show the decision was clearly unfair this is the letter you will get . Get hold of a lawyer in the UK - i can reccommend one if you need me to (just PM me ) and get them drafting the appeal straightaway.

You are fortunate in that the appeals system has been greatly speeded up by new procedures in the last year or so , and now appeals which used to take about a year are now being heard in 3-6 months. However the BE in Bangkok can hold onto your papers for as long as 19 weeks if they feel awkward before forwarding them to the UK . Hence the rather vague 3-6 month time span. Better than before but still an eternity when you are waiting.

You may consider re-applying after addressing all the points on the refusal notice . It would be marginally quicker . Be aware that your b/f will almost certainly be called for interview again as he has had a refusal . Unlikely they would pass another application on the documents alone . I think you should e-mail an english lawyer specialising in this field and get their initial thoughts on your next move. However you have nothing to lose by writing to the ECM at the BE . Any lawyer would tell you to do this as an initial step. As you are in Bangkok you could hand deliver it and ask for him to call you before you fly back.

If its any consolation, as a genuine couple you will get a visa of some description in the end . Unfortunately the end can be a long way off.

I know how miserable you feel at the moment . Don't hesitate to ask more questions if you feel it might help. Either way get that letter to the ECM written tonight and deliver it tomorow morning .

[GU22]

As 'atlastaname' says, your first step is to write to the ECM requesting that the application be reviewed, pointing out why you feel that the decision was wrong and countering the points made by the ECO in the refusal notice.

If this doesn't work, before embarking on the long road of an appeal you should consider applying again. However, if you don't address the reasons for the refusal then any subsequent application will be refused as well.

To advise you any further on this, it would be helpful if you can say exactly what the refusal notice says.

[GU22]

Logansmith, before making any firm decision on your next step, you may find it useful to read

Diplomatic Service Procedures - Entry clearance Volume 1 - General instructions,

CHAPTER 27 - APPEALS

[logansmith]

What a terrible result for you . Actually i have been in the same position as you before ( a situation now happily resolved) so you can believe me when i say i know exactly how you feel. Its a stomach churning feeling all right and you now have an awful last week together which , believe me , will be absolute misery.

Yes it was terrible and thank you for your understanding.

Were they the only 2 reasons it was turned down? The first is just plain silly and the second is explainable although in hindsight you must admit it was daft not to have sorted out your bank statements before this .

Yes although the ECO wrote over one page these where the only 2 reasons and from this the ECO concluded that we do not intend to enter into a civil partnership.

Firstly you must immediately write to the ECM(manager) at the BE and tell him that you want the decision reviewed. You could also try phoning and asking to speak to him . I did this before and they will take your calls . Point out that you are leaving next week for England , not that they will care a jot about that .

I have done what you have suggested and written a letter to the ECM, my partner will hand deliver it tomorrow. Can we be sure it will get to the ECM?

The ECM will reply after reviewing the case , although understand that they already have a pre-printed stock letter that will say that he has reviewed it and is upholding the refusal. Unless you can show the decision was clearly unfair this is the letter you will get . Get hold of a lawyer in the UK - i can reccommend one if you need me to (just PM me ) and get them drafting the appeal straightaway.

I think the letter does show that my partner was treated unfairly. We have mentioned that even though he admitted to the discrepancy of friend/boyfriend and then he tried to explain and offered further evidence to support what he was saying the ECO just dismissed it and said she does not want to see it......

You are fortunate in that the appeals system has been greatly speeded up by new procedures in the last year or so , and now appeals which used to take about a year are now being heard in 3-6 months. However the BE in Bangkok can hold onto your papers for as long as 19 weeks if they feel awkward before forwarding them to the UK . Hence the rather vague 3-6 month time span. Better than before but still an eternity when you are waiting.

You may consider re-applying after addressing all the points on the refusal notice . It would be marginally quicker . Be aware that your b/f will almost certainly be called for interview again as he has had a refusal . Unlikely they would pass another application on the documents alone . I think you should e-mail an english lawyer specialising in this field and get their initial thoughts on your next move. However you have nothing to lose by writing to the ECM at the BE . Any lawyer would tell you to do this as an initial step. As you are in Bangkok you could hand deliver it and ask for him to call you before you fly back.

Thank you for this advising me about this. I will PM you in addition to this posting.

If its any consolation, as a genuine couple you will get a visa of some description in the end . Unfortunately the end can be a long way off.

You mention that you feel we will get a visa of some description, I was not aware of any others for this type of relationship.

I know how miserable you feel at the moment . Don't hesitate to ask more questions if you feel it might help. Either way get that letter to the ECM written tonight and deliver it tomorow morning .

[atlastaname]

Logansmith,

I certainly feel for you . You have done the right thing getting that letter off to the ECO . I would suggest in addition you call tomorrow to check he has it and ask for his opinion. Point out that you are willing to bring along furthur documentation if he wants you to. This would give him the chance to say what is still lacking and hopefully they will be things you can provide at short notice. Its worth a try .

This refusal is strange . Considering you are applying for a CP visa its odd that the ECO has only found 2 reasons to refuse , and 2 fairly weak ones at that.(a CP visa is a tough one to refuse as the conditions to be met are comparatively easy to fulfill and to refuse could potentially lead them to breach your human rights , so normally if they are going to refuse they will find a multitude of reasons to present a strong case otherwise they know it will be overturned on appeal) It seems that they are satisfied you have met all the conditions except one , which is the intention to live together (i can only assume that the business with the wrong names on the bank statements leads them to conclude this is not a genuine relationship where you intend to live together). Otherwise you are fine.

They have then used the "general grounds of refusal" which can be applied to any type of visa application where they feel a previous visa was obtained by deceipt. In your case not disclosing you were boyfriends on the previous vv's. This is very weak especially given that you came up with a believable reason for it . I doubt you feel like it but if you typed out the entire refusal notice here we may be able to spot other reasons that have eluded you .

There must be more to it than this .

My b/f had FAR worse problems than yours yet he sailed through the CP visa application.Didn't even get asked to interview. I have also seen on another site that people from Brazil have come here on forged documents on a vv then applied on return for a CP visa and got it . Others from Malaysia have overstayed big time in the UK (even so far as getting a deportation order against them ) yet got the CP visa when they applied in Malaysia for it . Either you got a pig of an ECO yesterday or there is something else on the refusal notice. A lawyer will tear this refusal apart on appeal and they know it , so i can't believe it got refused just on these 2 flimsy grounds.

You have time , e-mail a lawyer in the UK and get their take on your next move. It won't cost you for a first e-mail. I can reccommend you a good one . I have NOT got your PM by the way.