Mother seeks safety advice for sons on motorbikes

[RubberSideDown]

I haven't seen anyone recommend a heavy leather jacket- both jackets I recommended are textile and mesh (I just wore an Icon version of one today, and I wore the Dainese yesterday).

I completely disagree with you regarding the price of gear- you usually need to spend about $200 minimum to get CE-rated armor, regardless of brand- cheap armor transmits more impact force to the rider- I wear the best quality gear available that will suit the local climate- so will my daughter when she's ready to learn to ride.

Personally, I don't agree with your assessment of helmets at all- a good quality full-face helmet has a an excellent field of vision, is vented so it's comfortable in the heat, and does not dampen ambient noise to where it becomes dangerous- I suggest you treat yourself to a Shoei or Arai sometime and you might learn the difference. To answer your question, I would say few if any deaths have been caused by the factors you mentioned regarding the wearing of a full-face helmet (I honestly can't remember an instance where I attributed not seeing or hearing something to my helmet, and I've ridden a few miles over the years an a variety of traffic conditions), and many more have been prevented (and injuries lessened) by the extra protection they provide. The pavement is just as hard on the street as it is on a MotoGP track.

Saying that the kid might take extra chances because he's wearing proper gear is really a strange comment- the bottom line is that you want him/her as protected as possible in every situation as far as gear is concerned- if you have to alter your riding style because of your gear, it's generally because you're not wearing enough of it.

I've been riding nearly 25 years (12 in Thailand)- others on this thread have a lot of experience as well- you really shouldn't discount the opinions of others to build yours up- disagreement is fine, but we've all got our feelings based on our own experiences, and they're all valid.

Edited October 7, 2013 by RubberSideDown

[KRS1]

Rollerblading wrist, elbow and knee pads....and a helmet are all you need.

CropperCapture50.jpg

CropperCapture51.jpg

Funny thing is , when i wear my Dainese knee guards and drop down, it hurts my knees...

When i wear rollerblade knee pads i dont feel a thing.

$20 for a full set vs $100 for only knee pads

At high speeds though, i think i'll trust Dainese more though ..lol

Edited October 7, 2013 by KRS1

[Briggsy]

Anyone know of any safety jacket shops in the northern Bangkok area or Rangsit, Bang Khen, Bangkapi, Ramindra, Chaengwattana, Saphan Mai, Lad Prao, Thonglor, Pradit-Manutham (there's Honda Big Wings -- do they have anything good there? )

Yes, read my earlier post.

[DualSportBiker]

I don't have kids - busted on that count. I do have young relatives and they have attended courses as instructed by yours truly. It is OK that kids have opinions on safety or road skills, just not to let those opinions change the outcome, because most, if not all kids, have no skills, no experience, and don't think it through... My relatives disagreed and argued with me, went, but returned in agreement with me. No accidents since... I also took them to a hospital and asked a Dr. to count of the number of bike related accidents he had dealt with that week. That had a big impact on them, especially when a slight majority were low-speed bumps that would have not caused serious injury to a rider with boots + gloves + proper helmet. That certainly helped them 'understand the dangers'.

I think that some of you guys know very little about kids, I have 4 and know a little more....training training training, whether they like it or not.... I don't think so. I also wonder if you know much about city riding in Thailand, recommending heavy black leather jackets designed to protect a GP rider. Gear that costs $100's is not practical either.

You have to get the kids on you side and choose gear that is easy to wear.

You also talk about crashes on racetracks and quote statistic of how certain gear protects you in an accident and this is where statistic fall down in the real world. How many accidents are caused by not being able to see or hear danger in a busy city, or being distracted my discomfort, and how many deaths are caused by not wearing the gear provided it cannot be quantified and who is to say that a kid with all this gear on will not take additional chances because he feels protected.

Michael Shoemacker drove like a nutcase compared with the guys before him, knowing he wouldn't die when he crashed.

Somehow you have to get inside the kid's head, talk to him and make him understand the dangers.

[Beardog]

Ok here is what the search button function does : look under motorcycle riding gear & you will find links Here are 2 since this topic has been done many times but you will have to wade through some of the Thai sites as they can be difficult to deal with in BKK. Some are in English some in Thai. But it should get you some names of companies within or around your area. I only know Pattaya area so I can't help you much more than here.

Pleasant reading! The Data maybe older but still somewhat current....Maybe not the sale items the prices & lineup may have changed!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/628111-jackets-for-the-heat/?p=6234365&hl=%2Bmotorcycle+%2Briding+%2Bgear

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/626628-motorcycle-track-suits/?hl=%2Bmotorcycle+%2Briding+%2Bgear

http://www.dirtshopthailand.com

Edited October 8, 2013 by Beardog

[AllanB]

I don't have kids - busted on that count. I do have young relatives and they have attended courses as instructed by yours truly. It is OK that kids have opinions on safety or road skills, just not to let those opinions change the outcome, because most, if not all kids, have no skills, no experience, and don't think it through... My relatives disagreed and argued with me, went, but returned in agreement with me. No accidents since... I also took them to a hospital and asked a Dr. to count of the number of bike related accidents he had dealt with that week. That had a big impact on them, especially when a slight majority were low-speed bumps that would have not caused serious injury to a rider with boots + gloves + proper helmet. That certainly helped them 'understand the dangers'.

I think that some of you guys know very little about kids, I have 4 and know a little more....training training training, whether they like it or not.... I don't think so. I also wonder if you know much about city riding in Thailand, recommending heavy black leather jackets designed to protect a GP rider. Gear that costs $100's is not practical either.

You have to get the kids on you side and choose gear that is easy to wear.

You also talk about crashes on racetracks and quote statistic of how certain gear protects you in an accident and this is where statistic fall down in the real world. How many accidents are caused by not being able to see or hear danger in a busy city, or being distracted my discomfort, and how many deaths are caused by not wearing the gear provided it cannot be quantified and who is to say that a kid with all this gear on will not take additional chances because he feels protected.

Michael Shoemacker drove like a nutcase compared with the guys before him, knowing he wouldn't die when he crashed.

Somehow you have to get inside the kid's head, talk to him and make him understand the dangers.

"I also took them to a hospital and asked a Dr. to count of the number of bike related accidents he had dealt with that week. That had a big impact on them" now you are talking, this should be included in the driving test and at the very least a video shown at schools, then they would at least have learned something at school. I showed an accident video on another thread and was chastised for it, but watching it made me change my riding habits, especially in traffic.

[DualSportBiker]

"I also took them to a hospital and asked a Dr. to count of the number of bike related accidents he had dealt with that week. That had a big impact on them" now you are talking, this should be included in the driving test and at the very least a video shown at schools, then they would at least have learned something at school. I showed an accident video on another thread and was chastised for it, but watching it made me change my riding habits, especially in traffic.

Standard "Introduction to Driving/Riding" when you start learning in Singapore is a 20 minute video of multiple accidents where the instructor explains how simple omissions end up as serious accidents. When you pass your test, you are required to watch another video compilation of bike or car accidents before you collect your bike/car license.

I've been chastised for talking about things that can go wrong - I am apparently inviting disaster. This osterich-like approach to teaching safety has to be changed; people only avoid what they know to be dangerous.

[Beardog]

Comon guys the lady already has got school for her boys taken care of & helmets. What she keeps on asking me through my E_mail is where to get armored mesh jackets So to keep it on topic If anyone has USEFUL info for this lady Please post any Bangkok leads she can pursue. We can open yet another topic on bike safety. This post is places for gear which does not leave any room for Safety dogmas pleez!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KRS1]

i say stick them on an oval dirt track and make them ride as fast as they can until they wreck it.

thatll teach them.

or

watch some youtube videos of the california driving test and duplicate it.

[KRS1]

Comon guys the lady already has got school for her boys taken care of & helmets. What she keeps on asking me through my E_mail is where to get armored mesh jackets So to keep it on topic If anyone has USEFUL info for this lady Please post any Bangkok leads she can pursue. We can open yet another topic on bike safety. This post is places for gear which does not leave any room for Safety dogmas pleez!!!!!!!!!!!!

shes not being faithful to ya man ! she's been PM 'ing me behind your back too

women

-------------------------

kawasaki

paddock

pandarider

dainese shop

have already been mentioned, she has everything she needs to know.

[RubberSideDown]

I ordered an Alpinestars T-GP Plus Air textile jacket from the US through eBay today- I may or may not get hit with taxes- it wax $220 + $10 shipping (~7200 baht)- it comes with a foam back protector that I feel needs to be upgraded, but I already have one that will fit so I didn't have to buy one.

I ordered a new MSX-125 in red for an around-town runabout as well.

Edited October 8, 2013 by RubberSideDown

[KRS1]

where did you order it from for only $10 shipping?

is that airmail?

[BSJ]

Rollerblading wrist, elbow and knee pads....and a helmet are all you need.

CropperCapture50.jpg

CropperCapture51.jpg

Funny thing is , when i wear my Dainese knee guards and drop down, it hurts my knees...

When i wear rollerblade knee pads i dont feel a thing.

$20 for a full set vs $100 for only knee pads

At high speeds though, i think i'll trust Dainese more though ..lol

But these are good little boys and when told my mother not to go over 35kph they will do as mother says. So the Dainese gear would be wasted!

[RubberSideDown]

where did you order it from for only $10 shipping?

is that airmail?

The eBay seller is km_motosports- the delivery estimate is October 21-30, so it must be a USPS airmail package.

[Beardog]

Here is another link I overlooked in the motorcycle project that lists most of BKK.

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=215865680265028500930.0004624feb401af10e332&msa=0&ll=13.760342,100.650698&spn=0.008326,0.009645

Good luck on your search!

[AllanB]

I ordered an Alpinestars T-GP Plus Air textile jacket from the US through eBay today- I may or may not get hit with taxes- it wax $220 + $10 shipping (~7200 baht)- it comes with a foam back protector that I feel needs to be upgraded, but I already have one that will fit so I didn't have to buy one.

I ordered a new MSX-125 in red for an around-town runabout as well.

A black jacket in the Thai sun, I don't get it, it is just ridiculous. No wonder kids wear T shirts.

[RubberSideDown]

Of course you don't get it- you seem to know very little about gear in general- everything can't be white if you're exposed to the elements at speed..

An all-white jacket gets filthy in short-order on a bike, to the point where it can't be cleaned- by having darker areas up front, but white on the arms and upper back where the sun hits, you can minimize the warming effect of the sun and extend the life of the jacket- it's also UV coated, which helps a lot.

There's another version that's mostly white, though.

Here- same jacket and price, but it won't last as long:

Edited October 9, 2013 by RubberSideDown

[KRS1]

Rollerblading wrist, elbow and knee pads....and a helmet are all you need.

CropperCapture50.jpg

CropperCapture51.jpg

Funny thing is , when i wear my Dainese knee guards and drop down, it hurts my knees...

When i wear rollerblade knee pads i dont feel a thing.

$20 for a full set vs $100 for only knee pads

At high speeds though, i think i'll trust Dainese more though ..lol

But these are good little boys and when told my mother not to go over 35kph they will do as mother says. So the Dainese gear would be wasted!

those who know...know....

[KRS1]

I ordered an Alpinestars T-GP Plus Air textile jacket from the US through eBay today- I may or may not get hit with taxes- it wax $220 + $10 shipping (~7200 baht)- it comes with a foam back protector that I feel needs to be upgraded, but I already have one that will fit so I didn't have to buy one.

I ordered a new MSX-125 in red for an around-town runabout as well.

A black jacket in the Thai sun, I don't get it, it is just ridiculous. No wonder kids wear T shirts.

when youre moving you dont feel the heat as much as when staying still.

although using a solar reflective material like foil in this post of yours would no doubt be the worst possible material to use for air flow.

[AllanB]

Of course you don't get it- you seem to know very little about gear in general- everything can't be white if you're exposed to the elements at speed..

An all-white jacket gets filthy in short-order on a bike, to the point where it can't be cleaned- by having darker areas up front, but white on the arms and upper back where the sun hits, you can minimize the warming effect of the sun and extend the life of the jacket- it's also UV coated, which helps a lot.

There's another version that's mostly white, though.

Here- same jacket and price, but it won't last as long:

I may know little about bikers gear, but I know about physics and heat absorption, which apparently you don't. The "Alpinestars" jacket I refereed to is mostly black including the section across the shoulders, the worst place to have it, at 90 degrees to the sun. If white is such a bad colour for showing the dirt why not make it all black, since the token white sections are useless in practical terms, they are merely a fashion statement?

The above jacket is slightly better, but there are many new silver materials that have excellent heat reflection properties and are easily washable too, but no one has thought to use them. It seems to me that this gear is just stuck in a time warp. However, a friend of mine has just bought a silver jacket from German, so maybe there is hope on the way.

[RubberSideDown]

As I said, you know little about gear from a practical standpoint- bragging about knowledge of physics and heat absorption is kind of laughable in the face of actual, real-world experience.

The materials you're referring to offer very little in the way of airflow, which is more important than reflectivity.

I already tried to explain that the white section on the arms are a part of the jacket that's directly exposed to the sun (unlike the front, especially on a sport bike), as is a section of the back.

In any case, get back to me when you've got more than five minutes of experience on the street, and please rethink the use of your very arrogant signature line- "If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong"- when it's so easy to put you in your place.

[roadsaints]

Hey, I just read your thread and would like to offer some help.

You can google:

Paddock Thailand

Panda rider

They sell all types of protective gear. On facebook Search for Hachi accessories shop

And send Gorn a message. He sells original Dainese jackets.

As for helmets, depending on head shape, consider AGV K3 - B6,900 or a LS2 helmet. If they don't like the heat maybe get them a modular helmet that flips up.

If getting items from singapore I suggest motoworld, or Regina's specialties. They have a website too, just google it.

Also I have a pair of brand new Alpinestars sp1 gloves that I've never used, if you are interested let me know.

Hope this helps. Cheers!

[BSJ]

Of course you don't get it- you seem to know very little about gear in general- everything can't be white if you're exposed to the elements at speed..

An all-white jacket gets filthy in short-order on a bike, to the point where it can't be cleaned- by having darker areas up front, but white on the arms and upper back where the sun hits, you can minimize the warming effect of the sun and extend the life of the jacket- it's also UV coated, which helps a lot.

There's another version that's mostly white, though.

Here- same jacket and price, but it won't last as long:

I may know little about bikers gear, but I know about physics and heat absorption, which apparently you don't. The "Alpinestars" jacket I refereed to is mostly black including the section across the shoulders, the worst place to have it, at 90 degrees to the sun. If white is such a bad colour for showing the dirt why not make it all black, since the token white sections are useless in practical terms, they are merely a fashion statement?

The above jacket is slightly better, but there are many new silver materials that have excellent heat reflection properties and are easily washable too, but no one has thought to use them. It seems to me that this gear is just stuck in a time warp. However, a friend of mine has just bought a silver jacket from German, so maybe there is hope on the way.

We must not forget the silver helmet.

[bigdod]

Addonvalue, I'd like to chuck in my tuppenceworth if you dont mind, but first I'd like to tell you a little bit about me so you know just how difficult this is for me to say... I like to think of myself as a biker. First bike at 9 years old and never been without one in my life ever since. I've had some good times on them, and i've had some real sad times because of them too...but thats just the way it is bein a biker. However; now, I've got a son of my own, 25yr old and he's after a motorcycle but I'm damned if i'm going to help him get one - and that's in the UK. Thailand....absolutely no <deleted> chance under god's creation that I would allow any family member of mine to ride a motorcycle around here, but that goes tenfold for Bangkok. Safety gear....forget it. The safest thing you could do in my book...especially if - as you say - they dont even like motorcycles, is put them in a taxi - and in BKK that's saying something. Have you never seen them pi$$ed up or off their nut on whatever poison you care to think of, jump in the car/truck/bus/whatever and straight on the cellphone while screeching off squinting at the phone through one eye coz the other's shut because of the smoke from the fag in their gob - and you're about to allow your kids to go out in that..? Up to you....

[Beardog]

Addonvalue, I'd like to chuck in my tuppenceworth if you dont mind, but first I'd like to tell you a little bit about me so you know just how difficult this is for me to say... I like to think of myself as a biker. First bike at 9 years old and never been without one in my life ever since. I've had some good times on them, and i've had some real sad times because of them too...but thats just the way it is bein a biker. However; now, I've got a son of my own, 25yr old and he's after a motorcycle but I'm damned if i'm going to help him get one - and that's in the UK. Thailand....absolutely no <deleted> chance under god's creation that I would allow any family member of mine to ride a motorcycle around here, but that goes tenfold for Bangkok. Safety gear....forget it. The safest thing you could do in my book...especially if - as you say - they dont even like motorcycles, is put them in a taxi - and in BKK that's saying something. Have you never seen them pi$$ed up or off their nut on whatever poison you care to think of, jump in the car/truck/bus/whatever and straight on the cellphone while screeching off squinting at the phone through one eye coz the other's shut because of the smoke from the fag in their gob - and you're about to allow your kids to go out in that..? Up to you....

Dude you win the douche bag of the century for that lovely set of comments. You have got to be the worst father in the world. Why not put your kids in prison so they can't hurt themselves. I guess you never learned when parents say no Kids just want to do what the can't anyway. You don't encourage your kids to be adventurous to go out & see the world try new things - Get a little cultured. The late time you posted makes me think you were just drunker than a skunk & wanted to blow some smoke out your ass. Everyone is encouraging Addon to get her kids educated. But you I don't get at all . Why don't you waste your drunk ass opinions in the BKK forum. This forum actually tries to help people not put fear mongering into the experience. I would be very ashamed of you as a father as you have sorely failed your kids. Ever take em fishing? Afraid the hook might hurt them.

If you were my Pops I would kick your ass for your selfish crap your spewing on TV. This is by far the worst post I have seen on TV in the 10 years I have been here. You could get killed walking across the street get hit by skytrian. What a sad hollow person you are! So Put your 2 pence worth where the sun don't shine. My folks encouraged me to be adventurous. I skydive scuba dive Am a world class cyclist that has competed in the X games in the U.S.do commercial deep dives. Skateboard, snowboard Race autos in the states.You know what I am still alive. Think BKK is bad try driving in Jamaica! Bet you were a real Mamas boy that never grew any nads.

Lame & weak sauce. Post when you got a clue or crawl back in your cave TROLL!

[ll2]

Addonvalue, I'd like to chuck in my tuppenceworth if you dont mind, but first I'd like to tell you a little bit about me so you know just how difficult this is for me to say... I like to think of myself as a biker. First bike at 9 years old and never been without one in my life ever since. I've had some good times on them, and i've had some real sad times because of them too...but thats just the way it is bein a biker. However; now, I've got a son of my own, 25yr old and he's after a motorcycle but I'm damned if i'm going to help him get one - and that's in the UK. Thailand....absolutely no <deleted> chance under god's creation that I would allow any family member of mine to ride a motorcycle around here, but that goes tenfold for Bangkok. Safety gear....forget it. The safest thing you could do in my book...especially if - as you say - they dont even like motorcycles, is put them in a taxi - and in BKK that's saying something. Have you never seen them pi$$ed up or off their nut on whatever poison you care to think of, jump in the car/truck/bus/whatever and straight on the cellphone while screeching off squinting at the phone through one eye coz the other's shut because of the smoke from the fag in their gob - and you're about to allow your kids to go out in that..? Up to you....

so you say your siblings deserve to live like vegetables while you are having good time on bikes?

c'mon man. you are not a good father as instead of encouraging him, you do the opposite. thailand or elsewhere.

just let him do what he wants.anyway he s 25 man!

Edited October 11, 2013 by ll2

[BSJ]

Addonvalue, I'd like to chuck in my tuppenceworth if you dont mind, but first I'd like to tell you a little bit about me so you know just how difficult this is for me to say... I like to think of myself as a biker. First bike at 9 years old and never been without one in my life ever since. I've had some good times on them, and i've had some real sad times because of them too...but thats just the way it is bein a biker. However; now, I've got a son of my own, 25yr old and he's after a motorcycle but I'm damned if i'm going to help him get one - and that's in the UK. Thailand....absolutely no <deleted> chance under god's creation that I would allow any family member of mine to ride a motorcycle around here, but that goes tenfold for Bangkok. Safety gear....forget it. The safest thing you could do in my book...especially if - as you say - they dont even like motorcycles, is put them in a taxi - and in BKK that's saying something. Have you never seen them pi$$ed up or off their nut on whatever poison you care to think of, jump in the car/truck/bus/whatever and straight on the cellphone while screeching off squinting at the phone through one eye coz the other's shut because of the smoke from the fag in their gob - and you're about to allow your kids to go out in that..? Up to you....

I read what Beardog said and what II2 said. I think, all your negativity seems to be some sort of disorder your living with. Jackassitis is treatable, but first you have to accept the fact you got it....then with treatment you can move on from there.

[paz]

Some strong feelings going on here. I guess one must never say "don't bike" on a biker's forum.

I'm ready with the pop-corn, keep it going guys.

[Shurup]

^^^ Yup that is correct, folks don't come to a bikes forum to ask an advice about NOT to ride a bike.

[Addonvalue]

Training, training and more training - whether they like it or not. You should make using the bikes conditional on completing a proper training course of which there are several options. For those who don't know, the compulsory and rather good bike training system in Singapore was copied from optional training courses available here. It is a real shame they are not compulsory here... Honda and Yamaha has courses on Bangna and are the best investment you can make in your kids safety. Storm have some great trainers like Khun Nay of Barcelona motors, and Khun Ek. When they have their first 'bump' they will understand why bike shoes at minimum, or boots, gloves, and a full-faced helmet (or MX/enduro helmet) stop minor bumps from being weeks of irritation and pain. I rode in Singapore for a while without gloves then saw a scooter t-boned when both vehicles were doing 10-15 kph. The rider put his hand down and lost all the skin from his wrist to his elbow on the railing! I turned around and got my gloves and put my steel-caps on... As for those of you who change what you wear depending on how far you are going - remember this. Most accidents happen close to home on familiar roads. We are lower our intensity when close to home, especially on the way home when we might be tired. Familiarity breeds contempt and on bikes, that leads to accidents. There is only one rule - All the gear - All the time. Ride safe...

Thanks guys for the recommendations on the gear and the training. I think I've narrowed it down to checking out the jackets at 320SP in Chinatown (only thing I wonder about is the suggested 'foam-back' jackets -- doesn't seem too protective, that...) Re: Training: Can you help direct me more specifically to the TRAINING Course in Bangkok - do I just call Honda or Yamaha and ask them? Are there any other recommendations for good defensive riding training here in Bangkok?Anyone have details like how long the course is, , contact number, prices...etc... Really appreciate the whole-hearted concern everyone's pouring into this forum. Actually this concern of mine started when a friend's boyfriend riding a 650 in Rayong recently had an accident, head decapitated, and is the second son in his family to have died from a motorbike accident. So yes,,,, I know the potential dangers and am therefore, very grateful for all of you who are sharing so many good points and perspectives. I think those of you who are in bangkok should get together and set up an informal group where newbies in biking can meet you, seasoned guys and learn a thing or two from you!