Royal Approval for 23 Gambling Activities, Including Bull Races and Mahjong

[rgs2001uk]

Two years ago a colleague and I were approached by one of the commonly mentioned on TV "reputable" financial services companies with wonderful offers to transfer our gold plated final salary pension funds to a QROPS scheme.

I declined their kind offer, he took it up.

The last time I spoke to him on the matter he told me a third of his fund had disappeared in the past two years (over boom times in the market) - his fund is being eaten by management charges and recycle-buy-sell charges.

He made a totally unnecessary change to a solid pension fund on the advice of an unregulated carpet bagger and will pay the price for this for the rest of his life.

IFA in Thailand - Read SCUM.

IFA in Thailand - Read SCUM.

I would like to think Kh GH would allow me the liberty of re-writing the above, let me re-phrase that to read.

Effin SCUM, best they head back to their barrow on the local market at Billericay, Ian Drury had them sussed, usually go by the nomenclature of Dagenham Dave.

[mrtoad]

Agree wholeheartedly with the previous two posts, they are scum who are only interested in taking the highest commission.

[mimithewoof]

My heart goes out to those in my neck of the woods who were hit by the LM scandal, and to RGS2001UK's friend - but there are a lot more of us out there whose life savings have been mangled by the greed and lack of professional conduct of those who lie in wait for new arrivals.

During the last two years-- boom time in the markets, indeed - I've lost to management charges and buy-sell charges, as well as by mishandling of the investment itself. The scum who sold me my 'investment' is now long gone after forgetting to mention it was insurance wrapped and held by an IOM company with a reputation for ignoring the illegality of unqualified, commission-hungry salesmen operating at the heart of the expat community. The highlight of the IOM company is the worst customer service I've ever encountered , even during my 25 years as a business owner in the UK. And that's saying something!

Charges - don't tell me - during a previous complaints row with them over two years ago that company promised by letter to cancel all further charges - earlier this year I found I was still paying them and they then denied they'd ever sent the letter.

They refunded me in the end, of course, and the charges are supposedly cancelled again.

We're caught between the devil and the deep blue sea, guys, the scum at this end and the totally unprincipled at the other.

[Arkady]

My heart goes out to those in my neck of the woods who were hit by the LM scandal, and to RGS2001UK's friend - but there are a lot more of us out there whose life savings have been mangled by the greed and lack of professional conduct of those who lie in wait for new arrivals.

During the last two years-- boom time in the markets, indeed - I've lost to management charges and buy-sell charges, as well as by mishandling of the investment itself. The scum who sold me my 'investment' is now long gone after forgetting to mention it was insurance wrapped and held by an IOM company with a reputation for ignoring the illegality of unqualified, commission-hungry salesmen operating at the heart of the expat community. The highlight of the IOM company is the worst customer service I've ever encountered , even during my 25 years as a business owner in the UK. And that's saying something!

Charges - don't tell me - during a previous complaints row with them over two years ago that company promised by letter to cancel all further charges - earlier this year I found I was still paying them and they then denied they'd ever sent the letter.

They refunded me in the end, of course, and the charges are supposedly cancelled again.

We're caught between the devil and the deep blue sea, guys, the scum at this end and the totally unprincipled at the other.

I aware of at least one case where an unlicensed IFA operating illegally without an onshore Thai company in Songkhla and Bangkok and claiming to be regulated in Malaysia sold a mixed portfolio of assets to a UK expat in Thailand which were placed in the custody of a licensed entity in mainland UK as an administrator. Some of the assets were bona fide funds investing in listed equities but three layers of fees eroded their value significantly. To spice up the portfolio the IFA also tucked away two toxic Isle of Man domiciled funds investing in guest houses and waste management that had the ability in the small print to invest in unsecured loan notes of related parties and charged savage early withdrawal fees. Within a couple of years one of the IoM funds had gone bust and the other was in trouble. Since it is illegal under the Financial Services Act for a licensed UK entity to accept instructions from an unlicensed IFA he vigorously made complaints to the Financial Services Authority and the Ombudsman over a two year period. The conclusion was identical in both cases. He was not covered by UK regulation because he is resident overseas and was advised to pursue a prosecution in Thailand against the illegal IFA who scammed him. The only problem with that was that the Thai SEC was uninterested in filing a complaint and the IFA disappeared.

Be warned that, while living in Thailand, you are only covered by Thai law and regulations. That creates a Catch 22 situation whereby the Thai regulator currently finds it too troublesome to pursue complaints against unlicensed foreign IFAs who scam other foreigners. Who can blame them? They have limited resources and don't want to be swamped by hundreds of foreigners with sob stories about toxic waste funds in the Isle of Man, football funds in the Cayman Island and slum housing projects in the favelas of Rio de Janeiro. They will, of course, follow up rigorously any complaints about Thai licensed financial advisors.

The message is clear: only deal with licensed financial advisors and asset managers that you have legal recourse against in the jurisdiction where you reside. Finance is a dirty business and the odds are stacked against you if your financial advisor has zero fear of criminal prosecution.

[FiftyTwo]

So if for example a firm's headquarters are outside Thailand, and they just happen to have an office in Thailand does that change anything? Assuming of course the Thai office is following the same regulations as the base and not relatively unregulated Thai investment laws?

That's something one would follow up, but Aberdeen have a decent reputation so therefore worth looking into further if one wants a financial advisor.

http://www.aberdeen-asset.co.uk/aam.nsf/Thailand/Home

If the office is in Thailand, there are no rules or guidelines they have to obey.

Look elsewhere.

[FiftyTwo]

Someone recommended Aberdeen Asset Management in Thailand. Yes, they are reputable and I have investments with them but they are an asset management firm licensed by the Thai Ministry of Finance and regulated by the Thai SEC. It is also controlled by a regulated regional office in Singapore which is in turn controlled by Aberdeen Asset Management in the UK.

This is the exact reason to avoid them, business and regulations spread over 3 countries.

If something goes wrong, it will always be 'someone else's responsibility', no chance of legal action or recompense.

[Arkady]

So if for example a firm's headquarters are outside Thailand, and they just happen to have an office in Thailand does that change anything? Assuming of course the Thai office is following the same regulations as the base and not relatively unregulated Thai investment laws?

That's something one would follow up, but Aberdeen have a decent reputation so therefore worth looking into further if one wants a financial advisor.

http://www.aberdeen-asset.co.uk/aam.nsf/Thailand/Home

If the office is in Thailand, there are no rules or guidelines they have to obey.

Look elsewhere.

They are bound by the Thai SEC Act and the terms of their asset management license in Thailand. The individual fund managers are also bound by the terms of their licenses.

[Arkady]

Someone recommended Aberdeen Asset Management in Thailand. Yes, they are reputable and I have investments with them but they are an asset management firm licensed by the Thai Ministry of Finance and regulated by the Thai SEC. It is also controlled by a regulated regional office in Singapore which is in turn controlled by Aberdeen Asset Management in the UK.

This is the exact reason to avoid them, business and regulations spread over 3 countries.

If something goes wrong, it will always be 'someone else's responsibility', no chance of legal action or recompense.

If the Thai office sells a product to someone resident in Thailand, the primarily regulatory responsibility in Thailand. They might sell you some of their overseas funds domiciled and regulated somewhere else but the Thai office still has to take regulatory responsibility for that. In addition a class action may or may not be possible against the fund managers overseas, depending on where they are regulated. The ownership structure of the Thai office through Singapore and ultimately in the UK doesn't place any regulatory responsibility on the Singapore and UK regulators to oversee the Thai subsidiary. However, it does subject to Aberdeen Singapore and Aberdeen UK to heavy reputation risk, in the event there was a scandal in their Thai office caused by scamming of clients which would definitely cause them to lose business globally.

Your implication that it is somehow better to have no legal recourse whatsoever by going with unlicensed IFAs in Thailand is nonsensical.

[FiftyTwo]

Your implication that it is somehow better to have no legal recourse whatsoever by going with unlicensed IFAs in Thailand is nonsensical.

If you are a UK citizen, all business should be done in the UK for greatest protection.

We already know the THAI SEC will not bother to chase foreigner on foreigner scams (registered or not).

Because of Thai defamation laws it is impossible to check if a Thai registered firm is legit or not.

If you talk (or post) bad about them, after a loss, you can be taken to court by them for defamation.

Best to avoid entirely.

Edited October 11, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[Arkady]

Your implication that it is somehow better to have no legal recourse whatsoever by going with unlicensed IFAs in Thailand is nonsensical.

If you are a UK citizen, all business should be done in the UK for greatest protection.

We already know the THAI SEC will not bother to chase foreigner on foreigner scams.

I believe I have already explained that UK citizens are not protected by the UK's Financial Services Services Act, unless they can present evidence they are resident in the UK.

If you are resident in Thailand and want the services of a financial advisor, asset manager or wealth manager to advise you on asset allocation and portfolio selection with legal recourse, the only solution is a Thai licensed entity. Otherwise, dispense with the services and fees of financial advisors completely and buy ETFs and similar asset allocation products at very low cost through your own brokerage accounts,.

[mimithewoof]

I'm aware of and appreciate your points, Arkady, but, if my so-called financial adviser had 'zero fear about criminal prosecution', I suspect he'd still be here rather than back in the UK with, apparently, absolutely no intention of returning!

[FiftyTwo]

Your implication that it is somehow better to have no legal recourse whatsoever by going with unlicensed IFAs in Thailand is nonsensical.

If you are a UK citizen, all business should be done in the UK for greatest protection.

We already know the THAI SEC will not bother to chase foreigner on foreigner scams.

I believe I have already explained that UK citizens are not protected by the UK's Financial Services Services Act, unless they can present evidence they are resident in the UK.

If you are resident in Thailand and want the services of a financial advisor, asset manager or wealth manager to advise you on asset allocation and portfolio selection with legal recourse, the only solution is a Thai licensed entity. Otherwise, dispense with the services and fees of financial advisors completely and buy ETFs and similar asset allocation products at very low cost through your own brokerage accounts,.

Or open an account with a firm like Hargreaves Lansdown, who allow you to manage your own pension assets online.

(Note: You need to 'claim' UK residency)

PS

I don't believe the subject of UK residency would ever be broached unless you were foolish enough to offer the information up voluntarily.

Edited October 11, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[Arkady]

Your implication that it is somehow better to have no legal recourse whatsoever by going with unlicensed IFAs in Thailand is nonsensical.

If you are a UK citizen, all business should be done in the UK for greatest protection.

We already know the THAI SEC will not bother to chase foreigner on foreigner scams (registered or not).

Because of Thai defamation laws it is impossible to check if a Thai registered firm is legit or not.

If you talk (or post) bad about them, after a loss, you can be taken to court by them for defamation.

Best to avoid entirely.

You may check licensing of firms and individuals in Thailand on the SEC's website or by visiting their offices where English speaking staff will be glad to assist you. Complaints against licensed firms and individuals can be made in person, in writing and by email. The SEC is obliged to follow up all such complaints. They have a range of penalties they can apply against regulated firms and individuals and can refer criminal violations to the police for prosecution.

Your reference to defamation laws in this context is entirely illogical. It is, in fact, a common tactic of the unlicensed IFAs in Thailand to threaten dissatisfied customers variously with defamation suits, deportation, murder or other violence. I have never heard of any such threats emanating from licensed firms or individuals in Thailand. Why would they resort to such unethical behaviour? They have their reputations and licenses to consider.

[Arkady]

Your implication that it is somehow better to have no legal recourse whatsoever by going with unlicensed IFAs in Thailand is nonsensical.

If you are a UK citizen, all business should be done in the UK for greatest protection.

We already know the THAI SEC will not bother to chase foreigner on foreigner scams.

I believe I have already explained that UK citizens are not protected by the UK's Financial Services Services Act, unless they can present evidence they are resident in the UK.

If you are resident in Thailand and want the services of a financial advisor, asset manager or wealth manager to advise you on asset allocation and portfolio selection with legal recourse, the only solution is a Thai licensed entity. Otherwise, dispense with the services and fees of financial advisors completely and buy ETFs and similar asset allocation products at very low cost through your own brokerage accounts,.

Or open an account with a firm like Hargreaves Lansdown, who allow you to manage your own pension assets online.

(Note: You need to 'claim' UK residency)

PS

I don't believe the subject of UK residency would ever be broached unless you were foolish enough to offer the information up voluntarily.

That is fine as long as the address registered for your account and correspondence is in the UK.