Zoning

[Sunbelt Asia]

Spoke with a very high government official yesterday. He stated that it’s all in Khun Thaksin’s hands now. Some shocking comments such as paragraph 3 or 4 that I was not aware of. Only because who this person is, is why I’m repeating it because otherwise I look rather foolish, if something else happens:-) Please remember I’m just repeating what I heard, these are not my opinions or do I necessary agree with every word of the reasoning. Here is his take…

On March 1st..

1. Khun Thaksin could declare that its 2. a.m or even 1 a.m. for everyone. In his opinion 70% chance of that happening. If he does this, expect also the statement that” no NEW entertainment licenses can or will be issued outside the zones.” Khun Thaksin definitely does not want any new places springing up outside the zones.

2. Khun Thaksin could declare midnight for businesses outside the zone and 1. a.m and 2 a.m in the zones as is proposed now. 30% chance for this.

3. TKhun Thaksin however can NOT change the zones or add zones. This has already been proclaimed by the King a long time ago and would take six months minimum to add more.

4. The zones themselves can be changed to 3 a.m or even 6 a.m. if the local government such as Pattaya wants longer hours for their zones.

5. The new entertainment law is modern. The previous was written 50 years ago and had many gray areas. This is black and white and should have no police corruption. It’s positive for the businessman as he knows the laws and can follow them.

6. The reason for the zones is so they can control everything. It may look having RCA in the zone is not proper if they are concerned about teenagers welfare but they can keep a eye on them at least here rather than having them spread out through the city. They expect older Thai people will start going to RCA as well and this will help change the atmosphere.

7. If the zoning goes through, expect the properties to skyrocket upwards around the zone. They expect the outer areas of Bangkok to die off in the next three years. More and more people will be attracted to living in areas around the zones.

8. If the zoning goes thru, they expect a minimum of two million people to be effected in the pocketbook and large protests as a result. “It will be a zoo” No matter how large the protest, don’t expect Khun Thaksin to back down like other PM”s in the past. However keep in mind that the government term is ending and their will soon be a new election. On a sidenote heard of a large protest on Friday the 27th being planned.

9. A pub can be open at 6 p.m in the zone and close at 1 a.m. A disco in the zone can open at 9 p.m in the zone and close at 2 a.m.

10. Outside the zone, a disco can be open from 9 p.m to midnight and a pub from 6 p.m. to midnight.

[britmaveric]

So from what I gather- other holiday destinations like Pattaya will be able to decide closing times in the specific Entertainment Zones?

Curious since Soi Nan and Soi Cowboy aren't in the Zones- shall we expect 12AM closing?

[sabaijai]

A Thai lawyer obtained for me a copy, in Thai, of the latest acts concerning sathaan bawrikaan, or 'service places', ie, entertainment and hotels. He also explained to me that Thai law distinguishes 'acts' from 'laws' and 'the constitution'. Both 'laws' and 'acts' should not contravene the constitution, and acts can't contravene existing laws. Acts may be issued by the PM and his cabinet, laws only by the National Assembly.

This means that in theory any of the new acts can be challenged in administrative court if any member of the public believes the acts aren't compatible with existing laws or the 1997 Thai constitution.

The original sathaan bawrikaan code was written in BE 2509, 48 years ago to be exact. However some acts have been updated or revised as recently as BE 2525 (AD 1983).

The new set of acts is much more explicit than the old. For example, dancing was more or less a grey area before. Thai police in some areas (Mae Hong Son and Chiang Mai for example) enforced a no-dancing policy for any place that wasn't officially classified a dance club or disco. But there was no act expressly forbidding this, just the implication since only discos were licensed specfically for dancing.

In the new acts, dancing outside of discos is forbidden! In any place that has a live band, for example, patrons who get up and move to the beat will be subject to arrest, and so will the club owner.

The new acts say nothing about opening and closing hours, so I can only assume that that will be covered in separate decree or will be an amendment to the latest entertainment code.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Thanks Sabaijai,

I was told yesterday a restaurant with music is not just live music. If it comes from a CD player or radio inside or outside the restaurant, outside the zone, they must close at midnight.

If the stereo and speakers are outside but you still can it hear it inside, you must close at midnight.

He stated they have "thought of everything when they designed this code. "

[Guest IT Manager]

Greg, can you tell me and others, not clear on it, what is RCA please.

IT

[UKYorkie]

If the zones have allready been established and it will take 6 months to change them. Are there other zones allready in existense other than the ones in BKK.

As the quote reports that local council can change the rules within there zones, therefore Pattaya can only do that if they are allready in a zone?

Confused I am

[sabaijai]

Yes, I came across that in the copy the lawyer gave me. It also states that in places that play CDs or other kinds of canned music, dancing is also forbidden. Unless you have a disco license of course.

So discos get it all, they get a 2am closing (within the zones) and people can dance. Looks like RCA is set to become the wealthiest entertainment zone in Bangkok history.

Actually the no-dancing part of the new code could be challenged in administrative court as a violation of the right to personal expression. I doubt anyone will bother testing that, and of course even if they did there's no guarantee of a win. But it would be interesting.

Sunbelt, those comments from your high-placed contact are very interesting, thanks for posting those.

I don't see the six-month time factor as any great deterrent for altering/adding entertainment zones. I'm sure people will be putting a lot of pressure on the government to expand the zones.

Ironic how it's OK to build a fertiliser factory next door to a housing estate (as I write this, this is happening in Minburi, next to where my in-laws recently built a house), but heaven forbid you open a pub outside an entertainment zone.

[Hurricane51]

Can someone please explaine what "RCA" refers to?

[Bluecat]

Greg, can you tell me and others, not clear on it, what is RCA please.

IT

RCA=Royal City Avenue

The road in between Rama IX and Petchburi road where you have A LOT of bars, clubs, restaurants catering (at least so far,...) mainly to the young (<25 years old) Thai people.

[webfact]

RCA = Royal City Avenue

[ChiangMaiThai]

deleted

[The Gentleman Scamp]

RCA is Royal City Avenue and it is situated near Ratchada I think, someone else can tell you more than I can.

Basically it's a mecca for young rich Thai's who want to dance at many of the huge clubs there. At night the lights are an impressive night.

Not many Farang to be seen but can be a good night out if you're in a group, especially if with Thai friends.

It makes Kaosan Road look like a backalley.

[cdnvic]

So are restraunts outside the zones who have live music allowed longer hours? If so the musicians should love this. I could see alot more establishments opting for live music rather than distorted cds.

cv

[Phil Conners]

Who want's to define "dance". Some people walk with a swank others might call "dancing". Tough call!

[pschef]

Sorry everyone, dont mean to be rude. My house is very close to a temple, they seem to play music and dance whenever they want. I am sure this post will be in the bin??

[yellowbudgy]

Where are the zones in BKK or Pattaya ie which soi's.Is there a map showing it anywhere.Gotta say guys welcome to Chinatown!!

yb

[mbkudu]

Everything in Thailand is always sollved in this fashion, ie high drama. It took

years upon years for the government to start building the sky train even when the

plans and money were already there long before.

It seems ironic (ironic, what a surprise) that RCA will have the most free

reign with closing times ect. That's where all the youngest kids go. Aren't those

the one's the govt. is trying to keep away from the pub scene? I'm not trying to

be a spoiled sport; I used to be a kid too, but it seems ridiculous. Most of the

patrons at Patpong, Cowboy and Nana are old geezers or not younger than 30,

just trying to get a quiet drinking and cavorting night. It's very rare to see the

use or sale of illegal drugs in any of these places. Whereas, I have seen and

heard of very frequent use and sales of illegal drugs at places like RCA or

the Tonglor area.

Doesn't sound like a moral crusade to me, more like a business/ business

conflict of interest crusade. Been around too long to think otherwise.

mbkudu

[sirusman]

i go to RCA quite a lot and it aint busy at the moment... plenty of room for expansion...

And yes Mrs Shin did just buy a big piece of land up there which she is going to develop into an entertainment area. She's pretty smart. Of couse there was no insider information.

Toxin is just a dictator nothing more nothing less

[britmaveric]

Hmmmm sounds like Thai Govt Officials certainly have their own pockets in mind with RCA development. Guess conflict of interest means zero? Not surprising, but you'd think they would be more subtle about it.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Mrs Shin did just buy a big piece of land

Perhaps turned out to be a brilliant move on her part. In December, Kungying Pojaman bought a 33-rai plot of former state land near the National Cultural Centre and Ratchadaphisek Road. Just like when Warren Buffet buys companies, it makes sense to follow the lead. I'm never that smart so I just follow the big money. It’s looking good to investigate buying property near there. New Condos are in fact expected to develop near there soon. If the zone goes thru, this area will be sizzling hot.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Where are the zones in BKK or Pattaya ie which soi's.Is there a map showing it

http://www.bkk-gui.de/zon_eng_t.html

[sirusman]

Perhaps turned out to be a brilliant move on her part.

Clearly you see nothing wrong with the corruption,do you believe she would have taken this step without prior knowledge that the new social order rules would be introduced.

[britmaveric]

Course they know about it!!!! A fool can see that- definitely not mere coincidence that zoning goes in effect and they have just bought land in the prime area. It has nothing to do with Social Order - more a campaign to take care of their own pockets.

[Moving]

It appears that the goal is to ensure that the "rules, laws, zoning etc, etc" are so obscure that only Thai officials have the ability to interpret them, and it is on a case by case basis and as it suits them. If there are any challenges than it becomes The Golden Rule"...he who has the gold makes the rules. Am I being to cynical??

[Rinrada]

Apart from a couple of small time east end gangsters...sorry enterprenuuuurs/ businessmen most of SOHO and the red light areas of central London are and have always been owned by the (our) Queen and the Church of England.Amen (all men)as it was once said,go forth and multiply...nice little earner init mate.

[ovenman]

6. The reason for the zones is so they can control everything. It may look having RCA in the zone is not proper if they are concerned about teenagers welfare but they can keep a eye on them at least here rather than having them spread out through the city. They expect older Thai people will start going to RCA as well and this will help change the atmosphere.

7. If the zoning goes through, expect the properties to skyrocket upwards around the zone. They expect the outer areas of Bangkok to die off in the next three years. More and more people will be attracted to living in areas around the zones.

The reason for the zones is the first sentence of your point number 7, pure and simple.

[teelac888]

all another great thai illusion.

anybody who thinks that things aren't already very strictly controlled by a complex undercover and snitch network is naive.

how many times have we heard this type of discussion over the years with a temporary change, only to revert back to the status quo?

just follow the money and watch how things don't really change.

[sirusman]

Well it seems that the Mods took offence at my post about Sunbelt Asia,seems the guy is teflon coated and can say as he feels ,but anyone give there personalpoint of view and it is deleted.Democracy has its place ........but clearly Thaivisa is not the place

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Well it seems that the Mods took offence at my post about Sunbelt Asia,seems the guy is teflon coated and can say as he feels ,but anyone give there personalpoint of view and it is deleted.Democracy has its place ........but clearly Thaivisa is not the place

Might it have been something to do with the offensive nature of your contribution ?

[kjvegas]

I'm usually in bed by midnight anyway, my only concern is the opening times, sometimes I like a cold one in the afternoon.

kj