Amnesty bill change slammed

[jcb2001]

It is in the interest of all Thais Red and Yellow shirts to just forgive and forget. In so much as yellows are allowing red shirts in general amnesty then reds should allow yellows full amnesty as well.

In the scheme of things one man should not hold the country to a different standard

If you are going to forgive one then forgive all without exception Not for the red shirts not for the yellow shirts but for the good of the country as a who.

It is now 7 years that the fabric of society in Thailand has been ripped apart . It is time for all Thais to come together give each other a hug and move on

Otherwise this is becoming the war of the roses and a very sad state

Yes it's sad. But reconciliation is very difficult when one man wants to run everything, as his own personal fiefdom, with no accountability and for an indefinite period. That man has a history of telling lies and enriching his own clan whilst delivering very little in return. How can reconciliation happen when someone like this is involved?

PTP have continually denied that amnesty and reconciliation was about Thaksin, and now as the Democrats predicted, they are changing the bill to benefit him. He's invested a considerable amount of money, time and effort into getting this government and certain people in position to do just that. Now he wants his ROI.

Very good point. I venture to bet that most of the Pheu Thai MPs don't fully understand or have read the contents of this bill. They are being blindly led by the Thaksin who now has the power to push this bill through which he has effectively greased for quick passage. PT is told to be obedient and just pass this bill for the sake of their dear leader.

[khunken]

It all depends whether Thaksin himself is behind the liars who have changed the initial bill. There is a fair amount of (flood) water to pass under the bridge before this gets passed into law.

Whether the cabinet endorses it will depend on Thaksin who will have to weigh the chances of large scale protests & the possibility of a coup. Another possibility is that he may not want to return to Thailand & risk a Sae Daeng type demise. It's impossible to gauge his intent especially as he rarely tells the truth.

Predictably though this is yet another dishonest move by some lackeys who will expect their reward for their dirty work.

[coma]

If Mr T just came home and faced the music. This amnesty bill would be a dead duck. End of story.

[Local Drunk]

I have special contempt for the uneducated rice planting idiots who keep voting for the same corrupt regime. Morons.

That says a lot about you.

The Democrats, their supporters and all those who oppose the authoritarian,inept and corrupt capitalists in this terrible government must take to the streets.

It's their only option, to try and force another coup, because they will never win a general election.

The Thai people are not as politically naive as the posters here, the fully understand what a vote for the Democrat party represents.

You could be right about the Dems not winning another general election but then nobody thought they'd win the Bangkok election either.

They would have to deliver if they won...

[Local Drunk]

" Another fine mess..." and it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people but for the fact it could seriously affect the whole country.

In an effort to get Thaksin and his money back PTP are prepared to grant amnesty to all which doesn't sit well with their red shirt supporters who want their version of justice over 2010 but forget they rioted and tried to burn Bkk to the ground.

Just how far will PTP be prepared to push this ? Thaksin's only priority is himself but what if a serious rift with the reds results and they turn on their political masters ? Will they swallow the approach " if you really love Mr. T and will do anything to get him back you'll accept this " ?

I'd love to see this government in a real bind having to deal with serious red protests against them but unfortunately this could have major consequences for the whole nation and of course how long would the army standby ?

Fearless leader has been a bit quite lately and I'd all like you to watch his rhetoric in the near future. That would be a signal that things are not going well for him.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Local Drunk

[Mudcrab]

You're in trouble when your enemies disagree with you.

You're f$#ked when your enemies AND your allies are against you.

Thaksin is such a cowardly piece of crap. He directs his cronies to whitewash his crimes while his idiot sister sits there like Prime Minister Barbie. You may love or hate Abhisit but at least this guy, who is facing murder charges, is going up against the very law that will free him. I have special contempt for the uneducated rice planting idiots who keep voting for the same corrupt regime. Morons.

My university educated wife plants rice, occasionally, takes the 500 baht from both the PT and Dems, then votes for the Dems. Your contempt is, well, contemptuous as well as irrelevant.

[hellodolly]

I have special contempt for the uneducated rice planting idiots who keep voting for the same corrupt regime. Morons.

That says a lot about you.

It's their only option, to try and force another coup, because they will never win a general election.

The Thai people are not as politically naive as the posters here, the fully understand what a vote for the Democrat party represents.

What does a vote for the Democrat party represent?

You really don't know?

The question was an honest one.

I for one took your response to be another way of saying you yourself are naive.

Your origanal post was spot on until you got on your soap box standing in mid air.

[hellodolly]

As much as it goes against my feelings I have to say I am in favor of an amnesty for every one connected with the attempted coup for there actions after the 2006 coup. This includes Thaksins sponsoring the coup.

There is no gain in granting amnesty and pardons for acts before the coup.

If the Government wishes it may bring charges against the coup makers.

It goes against my grain but it is the only solution for the current chasm in the Government. Thaksin will walk a free man for those actions even the attempted bribe but he will still be a convicted criminal subject to prosecution for before the coup events.

I want to throw up every time I think of Jutuporn prancing around singing you can't touch me. Yet for the good of Thailand I believe that is what must happen.

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[AbuBacon]

Fast forward to a post amnesty Thailand. If the colored had a brain they'd all realize the fun and games will be far more interesting when all the players are back in Thailand. Act 2 will bring with it a good deal of unpredictability now ancient from the equation. Love or loathe Dr T, when he returns home, by this time next year at the latest I'd wager, he will be far more vulnerable than he is now.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[khunken]

As much as it goes against my feelings I have to say I am in favor of an amnesty for every one connected with the attempted coup for there actions after the 2006 coup. This includes Thaksins sponsoring the coup.

There is no gain in granting amnesty and pardons for acts before the coup.

If the Government wishes it may bring charges against the coup makers.

It goes against my grain but it is the only solution for the current chasm in the Government. Thaksin will walk a free man for those actions even the attempted bribe but he will still be a convicted criminal subject to prosecution for before the coup events.

I want to throw up every time I think of Jutuporn prancing around singing you can't touch me. Yet for the good of Thailand I believe that is what must happen.

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I'm sorry Dolly but there's too much wrong with your post.

Thaksin certainly didn't sponsor the military coup - he sponsored the attempted red-shirt coup which is probably what you mean.

If the amnesty is passed into law, Thaksin's conviction will be annulled and any cases brought after the coup will be dropped - even though his crimes were committed before the coup.

He would be totally free of any conviction and charges - free to return and rape the country directly rather than from a distance.

I do understand your opinion has the country's interests at heart. But I don't agree with it.

[easybullet3]

You're in trouble when your enemies disagree with you.

You're f$#ked when your enemies AND your allies are against you.

Thaksin is such a cowardly piece of crap. He directs his cronies to whitewash his crimes while his idiot sister sits there like Prime Minister Barbie. You may love or hate Abhisit but at least this guy, who is facing murder charges, is going up against the very law that will free him. I have special contempt for the uneducated rice planting idiots who keep voting for the same corrupt regime. Morons.

its not the Rice-Farmers' fault! they get "paid" to vote!!! when they see the "hard cash" why wouldn't they vote for him ? !!

when the vote bribe-money stops, then maybe the farmers will have more chance to think with the minds, (and not their pockets).

Also: of course,, I actually have no idea what Abhsit's policies are for these kinds of Rice Farmers.

is it possible that Abhsits policies do not benefit the poor farmer guys as much as Thaksins policies?

maybe its a case of Traditional UK Conservative and Labour... (with lower class usually going labour and middle+upper class going conservative).

- if that's the case, then maybe the vote-buying doesn't change much.

[hellodolly]

As much as it goes against my feelings I have to say I am in favor of an amnesty for every one connected with the attempted coup for there actions after the 2006 coup. This includes Thaksins sponsoring the coup.

There is no gain in granting amnesty and pardons for acts before the coup.

If the Government wishes it may bring charges against the coup makers.

It goes against my grain but it is the only solution for the current chasm in the Government. Thaksin will walk a free man for those actions even the attempted bribe but he will still be a convicted criminal subject to prosecution for before the coup events.

I want to throw up every time I think of Jutuporn prancing around singing you can't touch me. Yet for the good of Thailand I believe that is what must happen.

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I'm sorry Dolly but there's too much wrong with your post.

Thaksin certainly didn't sponsor the military coup - he sponsored the attempted red-shirt coup which is probably what you mean.

If the amnesty is passed into law, Thaksin's conviction will be annulled and any cases brought after the coup will be dropped - even though his crimes were committed before the coup.

He would be totally free of any conviction and charges - free to return and rape the country directly rather than from a distance.

I do understand your opinion has the country's interests at heart. But I don't agree with it.

Sorry about that I meant the attempted coup.

He had nothing to do with the coup except being thrown out on his ear.

A little slack for an old man having a senior moment there.

I did say

As much as it goes against my feelings I have to say I am in favor of an amnesty for every one connected with the attempted coup for there actions after the 2006 coup. This includes Thaksins sponsoring the coup.

There is no gain in granting amnesty and pardons for acts before the coup.

Yes that did include a serious error. Like I say it was a senior moment.

Edited October 20, 2013 by hellodolly

[Thaddeus]

is it possible that Abhsits policies do not benefit the poor farmer guys as much as Thaksins policies?

Abhisits policy for the farmers was to benefit the farmers directly, the price of the rice was still controlled by market forces, the millers had to buy at that price, but the farmer received a subsidy on top, directly.

Of course the people who really control the vote around here didn't like that.

[philw]

You're in trouble when your enemies disagree with you.

You're f$#ked when your enemies AND your allies are against you.

Thaksin is such a cowardly piece of crap. He directs his cronies to whitewash his crimes while his idiot sister sits there like Prime Minister Barbie. You may love or hate Abhisit but at least this guy, who is facing murder charges, is going up against the very law that will free him. I have special contempt for

The uneducated rice planting idiots who keep voting for the same corrupt regime are quite happy to get 1000 Bht every time there is an election. They care not a fig who wins but it is important who pays.

Er............who kept them uneducated ???

For the last sixty years............

Like your take on the idiots that comprise most of the population.

Hope you enjoy your stay here.

[ratcatcher]

You're in trouble when your enemies disagree with you.

You're f$#ked when your enemies AND your allies are against you.

Thaksin is such a cowardly piece of crap. He directs his cronies to whitewash his crimes while his idiot sister sits there like Prime Minister Barbie. You may love or hate Abhisit but at least this guy, who is facing murder charges, is going up against the very law that will free him. I have special contempt for

The uneducated rice planting idiots who keep voting for the same corrupt regime are quite happy to get 1000 Bht every time there is an election. They care not a fig who wins but it is important who pays.

A cruel and untrue broad sweep of opinion.

The rice farmers you judge are not idiots, they may be uneducated but that isn't the point. As much as I dislike Thaksin, he saw a huge chunk of the population who traditionally had been marginalized and forgotten. This was his chance to use his marketing skills to make them believe he had their interests at heart.

It worked, and ever since, they have remembered this. Someone paid attention to them at last.

Votes can be bought in many countries and until the poor farmers realize they have been used, particularly in the rice scam, they will continue to vote PTP.

[hellodolly]

You're in trouble when your enemies disagree with you.

You're f$#ked when your enemies AND your allies are against you.

Thaksin is such a cowardly piece of crap. He directs his cronies to whitewash his crimes while his idiot sister sits there like Prime Minister Barbie. You may love or hate Abhisit but at least this guy, who is facing murder charges, is going up against the very law that will free him. I have special contempt for

The uneducated rice planting idiots who keep voting for the same corrupt regime are quite happy to get 1000 Bht every time there is an election. They care not a fig who wins but it is important who pays.

Er............who kept them uneducated ???

For the last sixty years............

Like your take on the idiots that comprise most of the population.

Hope you enjoy your stay here.

Perhaps you might want to reread his post.

He was talking about the idiots who plant rice not the whole population. As for who keeps them uneducated in the last 60 years.

The Government in the last 13 years it was the Democrats 3 years the army 1 year and Thaksin 9 years. Happy now.

You should have taken him to task on the 1,000 baht bribe it was only 500 baht and in some cases 300 baht.

[ratcatcher]

If Mr T just came home and faced the music. This amnesty bill would be a dead duck. End of story.

I think a fine performance of Mozart's Requiem would be appropriate don't you?

[philw]

You're in trouble when your enemies disagree with you.

You're f$#ked when your enemies AND your allies are against you.

Thaksin is such a cowardly piece of crap. He directs his cronies to whitewash his crimes while his idiot sister sits there like Prime Minister Barbie. You may love or hate Abhisit but at least this guy, who is facing murder charges, is going up against the very law that will free him. I have special contempt for

The uneducated rice planting idiots who keep voting for the same corrupt regime are quite happy to get 1000 Bht every time there is an election. They care not a fig who wins but it is important who pays.

Er............who kept them uneducated ???

For the last sixty years............

Like your take on the idiots that comprise most of the population.

Hope you enjoy your stay here.

Perhaps you might want to reread his post.

He was talking about the idiots who plant rice not the whole population. As for who keeps them uneducated in the last 60 years.

The Government in the last 13 years it was the Democrats 3 years the army 1 year and Thaksin 9 years. Happy now.

You should have taken him to task on the 1,000 baht bribe it was only 500 baht and in some cases 300 baht.

Nice one Dolly, have a whiz bang day and ignore how Thailand's development and progress has been shaped since the end of WW2.

Forget the past history, ignore how the politics have developed, the social and societal changes are all irrelevant, the only thing that matters is the spectre of Thaksin.......................

Thailand and the Thais seem to be moving on in my opinion.

Thai Visa forum is lagging behind, too many obsessives.

[otherstuff1957]

In my view an Amnesty is part of the proposed Truth and Reconciliation Process (T&RP).

An 'Amnesty' is the essence of the T&RP which cannot succeed if the amnesty drafters pick and choose which of the lawbreakers are to be included or excluded from an amnesty.

The 'only' options for the drafting an amnesty are the words that frame the intent thereof and fix the date from which an amnesty will come into effect.

Therefore the start date of an amnesty is the only variable that can be negotiated with the intent of excluding some lawbreakers. That is why the current proposal for the Amnesty to take effect is 'after the coup' to avoid the incorporation the coup leaders in the Amnesty.

Wrong, as usual. The current start date for the amnesty is 2004, well before the 2006 coup. This date was probably chosen to help Thaksin escape from any prosecution for his manipulating the laws to make the sale of ShinCorp to Temmasak possible. Also, the whole Ample Rich fiasco where he set up an offshore company to hide his assets under his children's names would also be forgiven with this date.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/675453-no-agreement-in-house-committee-on-amnesty-criteria/

Edited October 20, 2013 by otherstuff1957

[h90]

You're in trouble when your enemies disagree with you.

You're f$#ked when your enemies AND your allies are against you.

Thaksin is such a cowardly piece of crap. He directs his cronies to whitewash his crimes while his idiot sister sits there like Prime Minister Barbie. You may love or hate Abhisit but at least this guy, who is facing murder charges, is going up against the very law that will free him. I have special contempt for

The uneducated rice planting idiots who keep voting for the same corrupt regime are quite happy to get 1000 Bht every time there is an election. They care not a fig who wins but it is important who pays.

Er............who kept them uneducated ???

For the last sixty years............

Like your take on the idiots that comprise most of the population.

Hope you enjoy your stay here.

Who keep them uneducated? Not the Democrats, if you look at the history. Look up who were the governments before.

[h90]

You're in trouble when your enemies disagree with you.

You're f$#ked when your enemies AND your allies are against you.

Thaksin is such a cowardly piece of crap. He directs his cronies to whitewash his crimes while his idiot sister sits there like Prime Minister Barbie. You may love or hate Abhisit but at least this guy, who is facing murder charges, is going up against the very law that will free him. I have special contempt for

The uneducated rice planting idiots who keep voting for the same corrupt regime are quite happy to get 1000 Bht every time there is an election. They care not a fig who wins but it is important who pays.

Er............who kept them uneducated ???

For the last sixty years............

Like your take on the idiots that comprise most of the population.

Hope you enjoy your stay here.

Perhaps you might want to reread his post.

He was talking about the idiots who plant rice not the whole population. As for who keeps them uneducated in the last 60 years.

The Government in the last 13 years it was the Democrats 3 years the army 1 year and Thaksin 9 years. Happy now.

You should have taken him to task on the 1,000 baht bribe it was only 500 baht and in some cases 300 baht.

Amounts varied a lot. In some places middlemen took part of it, in some parts (I got told Bangkok) the rate was higher than somewhere outside, etc etc

I would say 300-1000.

[Thaddeus]

You're in trouble when your enemies disagree with you.

You're f$#ked when your enemies AND your allies are against you.

Thaksin is such a cowardly piece of crap. He directs his cronies to whitewash his crimes while his idiot sister sits there like Prime Minister Barbie. You may love or hate Abhisit but at least this guy, who is facing murder charges, is going up against the very law that will free him. I have special contempt for

The uneducated rice planting idiots who keep voting for the same corrupt regime are quite happy to get 1000 Bht every time there is an election. They care not a fig who wins but it is important who pays.

Er............who kept them uneducated ???

For the last sixty years............

Like your take on the idiots that comprise most of the population.

Hope you enjoy your stay here.

Many parts of what some of us would call the civilised world were uneducated for a long long time, it took some time to change that but change it did.

I'll just quote HD now

The Government in the last 13 years it was the Democrats 3 years the army 1 year and Thaksin 9 years. Happy now.

Do you think that there is any chance that if Thaksin doubled his time in power anything would change?

[coma]

If Mr T just came home and faced the music. This amnesty bill would be a dead duck. End of story.

I think a fine performance of Mozart's Requiem would be appropriate don't you?

Indeed!

[mrfill]

I expect the amnesty will also include drugged up Ferrari-driving relatives in the interest if fairness....