Can we extinguish the corruption in Thailand?

[David48]

Hey ... what happened to my post about fighting corruption in India?

I'll give it another shot.

If you want to look at a model for fighting corruption in Thailand, look maybe at what it's near neighbour is doing ...

Fighting Corruption in India

The paper discusses ...

• India’s Black Money Problem
• States Combating Corruption
• Balancing Politics and Ethics
• Moving Beyond Scandal

Harvard University

.

[quiuvo]

Who is "we"? What on earth has corruption here got to do with me? Why would any non-Thai be so presumptuous to think they can cure corruption in Thailand (or any other country you don't come from)? Mind your own business and leave that stuff to the locals to sort - they never will so what makes you think "we" can?

Put your blanket over your head. Oh, turn on air. If somehow the kickbacks, etc, are diminished we may have some decent infrastructure and not bitch about the smell, slow no drinking water and other things we complain. If you are not on the list then go to another topic. Many foreigners helped shape countries.

[quiuvo]

Changes to social titutes are preceded by a growing awareness of issues to be changed within the population.

We've all seen this ourselves, a change in public attitudes, starts off with obscure discussions in the media or people expressing 'fringe ideas', followed by letters in the press and suddenly a ground swell of opinion arises. OK that's not the precise path to acceptance, but fringe ideas to take hold in following as growing awareness and growing discussion.

Often what were very devisive issues become widely accepted social attitudes. I think the debate over drug legalization is one such topic (But please let's not get into drug legalization other than to note that in the UK seniour police officers are now making arguments that ten years ago would have seemed unimaginable).

So it seems there is a social discourse which precedes a change.

The choice then is do you as an individual wish to take part in the social discourse or not?

If not, then why is getting out of the way so others can take part a problem?

Exactly! It will take years, of course, but the kickbacks and greed and corruption will slow down.... No no , it will never go away.

[AYJAYDEE]

Changes to social titutes are preceded by a growing awareness of issues to be changed within the population.

We've all seen this ourselves, a change in public attitudes, starts off with obscure discussions in the media or people expressing 'fringe ideas', followed by letters in the press and suddenly a ground swell of opinion arises. OK that's not the precise path to acceptance, but fringe ideas to take hold in following as growing awareness and growing discussion.

Often what were very devisive issues become widely accepted social attitudes. I think the debate over drug legalization is one such topic (But please let's not get into drug legalization other than to note that in the UK seniour police officers are now making arguments that ten years ago would have seemed unimaginable).

So it seems there is a social discourse which precedes a change.

The choice then is do you as an individual wish to take part in the social discourse or not?

If not, then why is getting out of the way so others can take part a problem?

Exactly! It will take years, of course, but the kickbacks and greed and corruption will slow down.... No no , it will never go away.

nope! as in more advanced countries, it will just get more sophisticated and harder to see

[GuestHouse]

The financial crisis in America involved both greed and corruption. Many were complicit, including financial institutions, rating agencies, university professors, traders/brokers, and yes, senior US government officials. Most were sophisticated enough to hide behind various loopholes so that the regulators and the sheeps (i.e., public-at-large including yourself) wouldn't be able to recognize that it was in fact corruption on a grand scale.

I agree wholeheartedly that there was corruption but not in the financial transactions and financial mechanisms that preciptated the crash - Rather in the influence of the finacial sector on the law makers and the willingness of the law makers to be influenced in the period of deregulation of these financial markets. And that wasn't down to this pesident, nor the last incumbant.

Point of note: |Public are Large Incliding Ourselves|

I'd hate for you to become some retrospective prophet who foresaw the doom, warned us but we did not listen. Not that I mind, but its a short step thereafter to blaming us for the mess.

Personally I thought Clinton was a good president are you blaming it on him.

Or to be honest I know a few Republicans that are blaming all of Americas problems on Wilson.

America may have it's corruption as does any other country and that is not a justification.

But

America can be a shining lite on how much corruption you can eliminate. It made Thailand of today look like an honest government when it was in the Grant administration. They would have taken Thaksin and chewed him up and spit him out into the spittoons that were used in those days.

No it was the Hollywood cowboy who liberalised the financial institutions.

Amongst the benefactors (some of whom are bitching about the consequences) are a large percentage of the expats in Thailand who are now enjoying the fruits of the rapid growth in their financial assets during the boom years that followed the liberalisation.

[GuestHouse]

I wonder how many here in this thread have actually had a conversation about corruption in Thailand where the conversation did not follow the lines ... Expat ... Corruption is bad... Thai correspondent ... Up to you.

If you get the chance to talk to educated Thais, you'll hear a totally different story.

The idea that Thai people don't care about corruption or that they all are glad to have their snout in the trough is a myth.

[farang000999]

In my experience Thais also hate the Thai police and do not have high opinions of them, which kind of makes all the farang on TV bragging about their police connections look like idiots.

[farang000999]

No it was the Hollywood cowboy who liberalised the financial institutions.

Amongst the benefactors (some of whom are bitching about the consequences) are a large percentage of the expats in Thailand who are now enjoying the fruits of the rapid growth in their financial assets during the boom years that followed the liberalisation.

It began under Regan but continued under Clinton. They got rid of the regulations on derivatives under Clinton which was tantamount to the Financial Crisis. But you are correct, the crisis was caused primarily by Wall Street greed and corruption and we should not accept any of this propaganda about "It was the Fed's fault for lowering interest rates" or "That's what happens when you have government subsidized loans for affordable housing for the poor".

[AYJAYDEE]

No it was the Hollywood cowboy who liberalised the financial institutions.

Amongst the benefactors (some of whom are bitching about the consequences) are a large percentage of the expats in Thailand who are now enjoying the fruits of the rapid growth in their financial assets during the boom years that followed the liberalisation.

It began under Regan but continued under Clinton. They got rid of the regulations on derivatives under Clinton which was tantamount to the Financial Crisis. But you are correct, the crisis was caused primarily by Wall Street greed and corruption and we should not accept any of this propaganda about "It was the Fed's fault for lowering interest rates" or "That's what happens when you have government subsidized loans for affordable housing for the poor".

dont forget that the scumbags at Moodys gave those ridiculous derivatives an AAA rating. everybody gets a good share of the blame.

[hellodolly]

The title question immediately brought a smile, as if it were a joke. It may as well be, but why Thailand?

I guess if its a good place to live. Its a good place to start.

One of the differences between Thai corruption and that of more developed nations, is just that its a lot more obvious here.

The Thais are a more reckless. Corruption in an honest, in your face kind of way.

The more developed the country, the more stealthy the fraud. They do it so you don't even see or feel it, as your loose change is taken straight out of your pocket

through the banking system.

Beg to disagree a bit with you. In America at least if you are given X number of dollars you have to spend them whether you need them or not. If you don't they will slash your next year budget where you may need them.

This amounts to a huge ammount of wasted money.

Like I said on another thread my Mother worked for the welfare system She was the one they came to see to apply for assistance. Between her level the lowest and the highest there was 19 levels the money had to go through.

That has nothing to do with the banks. Also it is only one of many examples.

[LingLek]

We, the toothy, pot-bellied, knock-kneed expatriate, can and will extinguish corruption. 1. We will turn our snooty noses up, wherever and whenever we can, at any offer of a dodgy nature or request for 'tea money.' 2. We will march en masse to parliament waving placards, our squawking hos in tow, tottering on their platforms, while thundering out to the lying Asiatics all around us selected achievements--the Magna Carta, the Bill of Rights, the Highway Code--from the two thousand years of our glorious civilization. 3. We will stop drinking beer, for we would rather dehydrate than swig a Chang that costs more for us than the sneering wretch on the sidewalk. 4. We will form vigilante groups whose purpose will be to harass, threaten and 'out' any native whom we deem likely to fleece a visiting white man or cause him trouble and inconvenience, etc

[TheNativeSon]

Any foreigner who believes the corruption in Thailand is so BAD, compared to "whatever" country they come from, should quietly and simply return to that country. If you choose to stay in Thailand, then SHUT-UP, and get yourself the life, that you should have brought with you, when you first came here, to begin with. The Thai people and government are not "begging" foreigners to come here. In fact the opposite is more true. Just the facts.

The corruption here is like my country 60 years ago. I'm not naive. All countries have some form of corruption. If you think this country is at par with all others then that is your prerogative.

the major banks in america almost brought the entire financial system of the world to its knees and not a single one of the bastards went to jail and many of them are in the obama administration. and you think thailand is in a league of its own?? lol

Once again the lazy argument that we can find something bad, worse or more disgusting elsewhere so we should ingore things that are wrong right infront of us.

Its and argument with the logical conclusion that if we find a bad enough attrocity elsewhere in the world we can do as we please because over there is worse.

[TheNativeSon]

That mess in the USA did begin with Woodrow Wilson, when he signed the Federal Reserve Act, on December 16, 1913.

The financial crisis in America involved both greed and corruption. Many were complicit, including financial institutions, rating agencies, university professors, traders/brokers, and yes, senior US government officials. Most were sophisticated enough to hide behind various loopholes so that the regulators and the sheeps (i.e., public-at-large including yourself) wouldn't be able to recognize that it was in fact corruption on a grand scale.

I agree wholeheartedly that there was corruption but not in the financial transactions and financial mechanisms that preciptated the crash - Rather in the influence of the finacial sector on the law makers and the willingness of the law makers to be influenced in the period of deregulation of these financial markets. And that wasn't down to this pesident, nor the last incumbant.

Point of note: |Public are Large Incliding Ourselves|

I'd hate for you to become some retrospective prophet who foresaw the doom, warned us but we did not listen. Not that I mind, but its a short step thereafter to blaming us for the mess.

Personally I thought Clinton was a good president are you blaming it on him.

Or to be honest I know a few Republicans that are blaming all of Americas problems on Wilson.

America may have it's corruption as does any other country and that is not a justification.

But

America can be a shining lite on how much corruption you can eliminate. It made Thailand of today look like an honest government when it was in the Grant administration. They would have taken Thaksin and chewed him up and spit him out into the spittoons that were used in those days.

No it was the Hollywood cowboy who liberalised the financial institutions.

Amongst the benefactors (some of whom are bitching about the consequences) are a large percentage of the expats in Thailand who are now enjoying the fruits of the rapid growth in their financial assets during the boom years that followed the liberalisation.

[Maggusoil]

The title question immediately brought a smile, as if it were a joke. It may as well be, but why Thailand?

I guess if its a good place to live. Its a good place to start.

One of the differences between Thai corruption and that of more developed nations, is just that its a lot more obvious here.

The Thais are a more reckless. Corruption in an honest, in your face kind of way.

The more developed the country, the more stealthy the fraud. They do it so you don't even see or feel it, as your loose change is taken straight out of your pocket

through the banking system.

Beg to disagree a bit with you. In America at least if you are given X number of dollars you have to spend them whether you need them or not. If you don't they will slash your next year budget where you may need them.

This amounts to a huge ammount of wasted money.

Like I said on another thread my Mother worked for the welfare system She was the one they came to see to apply for assistance. Between her level the lowest and the highest there was 19 levels the money had to go through.

That has nothing to do with the banks. Also it is only one of many examples.

Wasted, depends on what you call waste. One man's waste is another's profit.

You are right. My assertion, does not mention the relationship between the socialist governments and the banking system, which has to exist for the "robbing" to take place.

There are many minions to pay and hidden reserves where the profit goes.

[farang000999]

That mess in the USA did begin with Woodrow Wilson, when he signed the Federal Reserve Act, on December 16, 1913.

Nonsense.

[LisaMaria]

Sent from my GT-I9070 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Only Thai people can do that. And this can only happen if they stop looking for the shortcut and for the "easy-way" when it's time to take responsibilities. And this is for every level of the society.

[slapout]

You have to approach how to control corruption as its virtually impossible to eliminate completly.

Those at the lower end of the process are not worth the time nor money spent vs what would be saved. Those at the upper end have such a firewall built up so that they are in many cases bullet proof, from direct ties to the gophers/bagmen they use.

Go after a group of those in the mid range of the system. The number of potential turncoats is high, they know who and how much is involved, in their area of responsibility, and they can be intimadiated.

Once you show the group they have been caught out, propose a reasonable jail term , for cooperation, and a much longer term, seize assits, etc, for lack of cooperation, No exceptions, then watch the info flow..Break the chain at this level; and then go after the next level up, as well as any good info on some of the careless top dogs.

[AYJAYDEE]

We are getting of topic somewhat but who said the JD new about it? The gov. Did tear down some regulations because one party is opposed to regulations. You can lol all you want but it seems to me that the quarter inch concrete on the streets says how far back Thailand is regarding corruption.t

he JD knows about it NOW! any sign of prosecution? NOPE! and ill take crummy concrete over a destruction of my retirement portfolio anytime.