Red-shirts: No blanket amnesty

[webfact]

POLITICS
Reds: No blanket amnesty
KHANITTHA THEPPHAJORN,
ANUPHAN CHANTANA,
KORNCHANOK RAKSASERI
THE NATION


Photo by Pramote Putthaisong

Red shirt faction plans rally; aliance warns bill will aid corrupt politicians

BANGKOK: -- RED SUNDAY, a faction of the red-shirt movement, will on Sunday organise a rally at the Ratchaprasong intersection to oppose the revised amnesty bill, its leader Sombat Boonngam-anong said yesterday.

"The rally will send a signal to the Pheu Thai Party about where the people who took part in the political struggle really stand on the amnesty issue," he said.

Sombat said blanket amnesty, if granted to the political overseers who were in charge of the crackdown on the red-shirt rally at Ratchaprasong in 2010, would in effect deny the reds the legitimacy to continue their political struggle.

He said the red shirts would apply strong pressure on the ruling party to revert back to the original draft sponsored by Pheu Thai MP Worachai Hema.

Worachai's version was designed to provide amnesty to ordinary protesters.

Proponents of blanket amnesty had no justification to cite legal equality as a reason for absolving all individuals involved, because they neglected to address lese majeste offences, he said.

Pramon Sutivong, chairman of the Anti-Corruption Organisation of Thailand, said his group would hold a press conference on Monday at Arnoma Hotel to declare its stance against the amnesty bill, which the group believes will provide blanket amnesty and cover those convicted of corruption.

Among the organisation's members are prominent business-sector groups such as the Federation of Thai Industries and the Thai Chamber of Commerce, Pramon said. These groups had acknowledged his organisation's stance and had not opposed it, Pramon said, so he hoped other such alliances would adopt the same stance.

The House ad hoc committee vetting the amnesty bill scheduled sessions yesterday(Thursday) and today to hear from members who disagree with its resolution, and to allow them to present proposals to alter the motion. Their comments would be put in a report, which will be presented to the House session during the second reading of the bill.

Committee chairman Samart Kaew-mechai, from the Pheu Thai Party, said he would not rush the meeting. However, he insisted there would be no extension of the meeting days on which the panel members could speak on altering the motion, and there would be no revision of the resolution the committee decided upon last week.

"The committee made this consideration based on the principle of forgiveness, and according to the Constitution. People who disagree can [propose to] alter the motion and let the House session decide," he said.

Samart yesterday clarified that the revised amnesty bill would not absolve those tried and convicted for corruption. He said the bill would only apply to criminal offences related to the political mayhem.

Samart intervened to clarify after the Democrats and coalition lawmakers exchanged sharp words during the committee meeting.

The Democrats demanded that the revised bill be clear on two issues - the intention in the annulling the work of the Assets Examination Commission appointed after the 2006 coup, and the assets seizure of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Payao Akahad, mother of Kamolket, a paramedic who died in the crackdown in 2010, yesterday submitted a letter to Samart. Her group, which includes relatives of the victims of the crackdown, called on the committee to amend a clause in the bill so that the people who ordered it do not get amnesty.

The group also called on the government to speed up assistance in obtaining bail for people detained during the incident, to delay the passage of the amnesty bill and to hold public hearings on the issue.

She said that unless the group received a response on its request, it would discuss the possibility of staging a rally.

Pheu Thai MP Weng Tojirakarn said he was sceptical that the revised amnesty bill could be enforced so long as coup-related immunity remained intact. Amnesty for those found guilty in coup-sponsored litigation might be voided by Article 309 of the Constitution, which upholds coup-related activities, he said.

He voiced concern that the bill in its revised version might be cancelled by the Constitution Court.

He also said amnesty would not pave way for the homecoming of fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

"The amnesty will backfire by fanning opposition to unconditional absolution, which would, in turn, create unfavourable sentiment for Thaksin," he said.

Justice Minister Chaikasem Nitisiri played down a National Institute of Develo-pment Administration opinion poll in which a majority of respondents opposed revising the amnesty bill.

Amnesty legislation should be under the purview of lawmakers, who receive their mandate through elections, Chaikasem said.

The relevant parties should allow Parliament to do its job instead of taking to the streets, he said, adding that he was in favour of granting amnesty to all sides involved in the conflict.

While coup-sponsored probes into graft cases could be revived after granting amnesty to those involved, this might not be a good idea because then the absolution would have failed to end the animosity in Thai politics, he said.

Earlier this week, Thaksin told Thai-language daily Post Today he supported the amnesty bill as it would reset relations among all political players.

Thaksin said he was not thinking of his own benefit - being whitewashed under the law and getting his assets back - but the next generation's.


-- The Nation 2013-10-25

[ChrisY1]

The natives may be restless with the amnesty bill....but I'm sure PT will be able to placate them.....but their heroic leader, Nuttawat, may have problems with his position if he speaks too loudly ))

[AleG]

While coup-sponsored probes into graft cases could be revived after granting amnesty to those involved, this might not be a good idea because then the absolution would have failed to end the animosity in Thai politics, he said.

Step One: set up a situation were nearly a hundred people end up dead.

Step Two: Tearly eyed champion an amnesty for reconciliation.

Step Three: Hijack it to clear you and your cronies of their corruption cases.

Utterly disgusting, when are the Red Shirt going to wake up to the fact that people died to further the agenda of a group of criminals?

[boomerangutang]

Thaksin paid them and incited them to riot. Then he convinced them that authorities are the culprits. "Thailand, the Hub of Warped Thinking."

btw, 'Who Killed Sae Dang?' I don't know, but I can surmise who had the motive: Mr. T knew that there was one person, above all, who could implicate him in the crime of bankrolling armed thugs during the 2010 demonstrations. With loose-cannon Sae Dang silenced, T could breathe a sigh of relief, and chuckle his way on down to the cafe for a jelly donut and some java.

[waza]

While coup-sponsored probes into graft cases could be revived after granting amnesty to those involved, this might not be a good idea because then the absolution would have failed to end the animosity in Thai politics, he said.

Step One: set up a situation were nearly a hundred people end up dead.

Step Two: Tearly eyed champion an amnesty for reconciliation.

Step Three: Hijack it to clear you and your cronies of their corruption cases.

Utterly disgusting, when are the Red Shirt going to wake up to the fact that people died to further the agenda of a group of criminals?

I agree the redshirts were the sacrificial lambs sent to slaughter so their blood can oil the cogs of the political resurrection of Thaksin the criminal.

[chrisrazz]

I think, as a highly placed military officer, Sae Dang knew more about the backers and the real motives behind the previous coup than we will ever know. Due to his popularity amongst the reds, he may have been seen as a threat to both sides.

[boomerangutang]

I think, as a highly placed military officer, Sae Dang knew more about the backers and the real motives behind the previous coup than we will ever know. Due to his popularity amongst the reds, he may have been seen as a threat to both sides.

Methinks you're watering it down. Sae Daeng was known as a loose cannon with a big mouth, even months before spring 2010. He had threatened to spill the beans on Thaksin, just days/hours before he was killed. He had been in charge of the infamous 'Black Shirts' purportedly bankrolled by T. T had some serious reasons to want him eliminated.

The prior coup was already old news at that time, plus; the coup makers had already gotten their 'get-out-of-jail' cards printed in the Constitution.

[hellodolly]

Thaksin paid them and incited them to riot. Then he convinced them that authorities are the culprits. "Thailand, the Hub of Warped Thinking."

btw, 'Who Killed Sae Dang?' I don't know, but I can surmise who had the motive: Mr. T knew that there was one person, above all, who could implicate him in the crime of bankrolling armed thugs during the 2010 demonstrations. With loose-cannon Sae Dang silenced, T could breathe a sigh of relief, and chuckle his way on down to the cafe for a jelly donut and some java.

Well what you say may be true. I have no doubt Thaksin was behind the killing. How ever I think it was because he could see that he was loosing control and his whacked out whako was taking over.

It was probably the only thing he did in the whole deal that was for the over all good of all of Thailand.

I am not saying murder is right but you have to admit all of Thailand benefited from his death.

[Pimay1]

"The rally will send a signal to the Pheu Thai Party about where the people who took part in the political struggle bring Thaksin home free of all charges and return his money really stand on the amnesty issue," he said.

[louse1953]

55555555,Thaksin said he was not thinking of his own benefit or the billions of baht,just think of the kiddies.My hero.Does he believe his own BS.I pretty sure nobody else does,not even his own family.If this criminal ever gets back,the first thing he will want is the money.

[Neilly]

"The committee made this consideration based on the principle of forgiveness, and according to the Constitution."

[rubl]

"Pheu Thai MP Weng Tojirakarn said he was sceptical that the revised amnesty bill could be enforced so long as coup-related immunity remained intact. Amnesty for those found guilty in coup-sponsored litigation might be voided by Article 309 of the Constitution, which upholds coup-related activities, he said. "

It would seem that UDD leader Dr. weng has found a way out of his dilemma.

Edited October 25, 2013 by rubl

[ratcatcher]

"It's not for me but for Thailand, honest it is"

[coma]

How confusing ?

[hellodolly]

55555555,Thaksin said he was not thinking of his own benefit or the billions of baht,just think of the kiddies.My hero.Does he believe his own BS.I pretty sure nobody else does,not even his own family.If this criminal ever gets back,the first thing he will want is the money.

I think he believes his own BS he just can't remember it a second after he has said it. As for others believing it well with the Thai education being what it is and the red shirt schools for democracy at gun point I am quite sure there are a lot that do believe him. They just have selective memories. Not a one of them remembers the give me 6 months and you will all be rich.

I can understand them. But what I can't understand is the westerners who fall for his crap. I am talking about the ones who were here when he had down town Bangkok turned into a battle zxone and city halls and fire engines being burned up around the country. Can you believe that a fire engine here in Chiaang Mai his ancestral home.

[boomerangutang]

Thaksin paid them and incited them to riot. Then he convinced them that authorities are the culprits. "Thailand, the Hub of Warped Thinking."

btw, 'Who Killed Sae Dang?' I don't know, but I can surmise who had the motive: Mr. T knew that there was one person, above all, who could implicate him in the crime of bankrolling armed thugs during the 2010 demonstrations. With loose-cannon Sae Dang silenced, T could breathe a sigh of relief, and chuckle his way on down to the cafe for a jelly donut and some java.

Well what you say may be true. I have no doubt Thaksin was behind the killing. How ever I think it was because he could see that he was loosing control and his whacked out whako was taking over.

It was probably the only thing he did in the whole deal that was for the over all good of all of Thailand.

I am not saying murder is right but you have to admit all of Thailand benefited from his death.

I agree it was good for Thailand, but there's still the niggling thought; that had Sae Daeng not been killed, he would be the top banana - as far as incriminating evidence against Thaksin, including grounds for treason. Ok, it might have also baked Sae Daeng's cake, but we've all heard of people going 'state's witness' and getting let off of serious charges. Sae Daeng was facing very serious charges (leader of a cabal of treasonous armed vigilantes), and there were reports, right before his death, that he was clashing with his paymaster, Thaksin. 1 + 1 = too much explosives to be left next to a burning stove.

Edited October 25, 2013 by boomerangutang

[EricBerg]

55555555,Thaksin said he was not thinking of his own benefit or the billions of baht,just think of the kiddies.My hero.Does he believe his own BS.I pretty sure nobody else does,not even his own family.If this criminal ever gets back,the first thing he will want is the money.

More likely the first thing he will want is not having come back

[MaiChai]

There is no need for an amnesty bill. Whats needed is for the courts to quickly process those who were locked up awaiting trial. If someone committed a criminal act, then they do the time. If there is insufficient evidence or a criminal act was not performed then release them.

[whybother]

The red shirt leaders are now saying that they will abstain from voting rather than voting against the bill. Weak as piss.

[longway]

The red shirt leaders are now saying that they will abstain from voting rather than voting against the bill. Weak as piss.

Yeah let's see how many would resign from their positions, quit as MPs or actually do anything beyond mouth a few feeble 'protests'.

[Artisi]

Just hope the anti-Thaksin followers are in there stirring the red faction against the "white-wash" called the amnesty bill - one way to keep it from passing as the red-shirts certainly have it all over the puppet P.M. and her (his) party members.

[Robby nz]

I suspect that a deal has been done (Thaksin phoned Weng) that Weng and the other red leaders will stand up and vote against the bill.

Before it comes to a vote they will be up before any red rallies promising that they wont let the reds down and will fight to the last even if they have to go against the party.

This will not make any difference as PT still have the numbers to push it through.

However the red leaders will be able to tell their 'followers' that they were in there fighting for them in the hope that this will keep them onside.

[Siripon]

I suspect that a deal has been done (Thaksin phoned Weng) that Weng and the other red leaders will stand up and vote against the bill.

Before it comes to a vote they will be up before any red rallies promising that they wont let the reds down and will fight to the last even if they have to go against the party.

This will not make any difference as PT still have the numbers to push it through.

However the red leaders will be able to tell their 'followers' that they were in there fighting for them in the hope that this will keep them onside.

Robby, I'd say you were a 100% right.

Let's not forget the reds who didn't lose any relatives in the riots don't really care about the blanket pardon, they didn't lose anything and got paid for a few weeks' disturbances.

Let's see how many reds will really protest against this pardon which will see Apisit and Suthep go free. a few dozen intellectuals at most. The other day Kwanchai, the red leader in Udon, openly dismissed the views of Jackaprob Penkair, The Voice of Thaksin magazine writer, for opposing the amnesty, (Kwanchai himself will gain as his conviction and prison sentence of 4 years is currently under consideration by the Supreme Court).

Ideals are soon buried by any red shirts once personal gain enters the picture.

[Siripon]

I suspect that a deal has been done (Thaksin phoned Weng) that Weng and the other red leaders will stand up and vote against the bill.

Before it comes to a vote they will be up before any red rallies promising that they wont let the reds down and will fight to the last even if they have to go against the party.

This will not make any difference as PT still have the numbers to push it through.

However the red leaders will be able to tell their 'followers' that they were in there fighting for them in the hope that this will keep them onside.

[h90]

The red shirt leaders are now saying that they will abstain from voting rather than voting against the bill. Weak as piss.

After checking that there are more than enough votes, the red shirt leaders are allowed to abstain so it won't have a too big impact on the followers.

[centrala]

While coup-sponsored probes into graft cases could be revived after granting amnesty to those involved, this might not be a good idea because then the absolution would have failed to end the animosity in Thai politics, he said.

Step One: set up a situation were nearly a hundred people end up dead.

Step Two: Tearly eyed champion an amnesty for reconciliation.

Step Three: Hijack it to clear you and your cronies of their corruption cases.

Utterly disgusting, when are the Red Shirt going to wake up to the fact that people died to further the agenda of a group of criminals?

.

They haven't yet.

We'll know when they have when they demand the dozen of their of their red shirt leaders that are pheu thai party MP's resign AND denounce Thaksin as a fraud.

I think both of those things are a way off, so, in the interim, they remain his stooges.

.