Thai Democrats appear to be one step ahead of govt

[webfact]

Democrats appear to be one step ahead of govt
Hataikarn Treesuwan
The Nation

Censure motion considered as more MPs get ready to quit; protests perfectly managed

BANGKOK: -- When veteran Democrat Suthep Thaugsuban took his fight against the "Thaksin regime" to the streets, he had every intention to quit as an MP so he could fight alongside those who are against the Yingluck Shinawatra government.

He was only waiting for the right time to make this announcement.

He first waited for the blanket amnesty bill to pass all three readings in the House, before launching the "blowing whistle" mass rally on October 31. Then, he and his fellow protest leaders waited to see if the government killed the amnesty bill within the Democrats' Monday 6pm deadline before they could set up a "people's court" to try the Yingluck government.

Since the rallies kicked off 13 days ago, the Democrats appear to be one step ahead of the government. Their battle strategy has been to increase the intensity of the protest gradually - a move that has helped them avoid making major errors, a Democrat protest leader said.

"We know that if we set up a long-term protest, demonstrators will get angrier with the government. But if we fail to achieve the perfect balance, we can become a part of what the protesters hate," the source said.

Nine Democrat MPs - Suthep, Thaworn Senneam, Satit Wongnongtaey, Witthaya Kaewparadai, Issara Somchai, Chumphon Junsai, Buddhipongse Punnakanta, Akanat Promphan and Nataphol Theepsuwan - decided to tender their resignations so they could focus on leading anti-government protests.

The protest leaders' strategy has been to set conditions and intensify the protests if these demands are ignored by the government or not responded to within the deadline.

What started out as a move to kill the amnesty bill has now become an attempt to overthrow the "evil government".

On Monday, Suthep called on people to take part in civil disobedience by going on a three-day strike, stop paying taxes, hanging the national flag everywhere and blowing a whistle at every passing government official.

"The key measure that Suthep announced on stage was a three-day national strike from [today]. We want people who are pro-Democrat, but do not wish to reveal their identity, to be able to take a stance. If a lot of new faces join the Democrat-led rally on Rajdamnoen Road, then we will hold a people's court to try the government next week," the source said.

The source added that Suthep was also planning to ask protesters what independent agencies would do to end the ongoing political turmoil. He was perhaps referring to the impending Constitutional Court verdict on November 20 in relation to the charter amendment based on the qualification of senatorial candidates. Another Democrat Party source, who asked not to be named, said it was time for Democrat leaders to set up a proper strategy in Parliament, especially now that nine MPs have quit to protect the party.

"Suthep initially tried setting up some strict conditions, like not allowing all Democrat leaders to deliver rally speeches. Despite this, many members tried to come on as guest speakers. Maybe the best way out would be for them to take this to the Parliament floor and file for a censure debate," the source said.

He went on to say that Democrat leaders had different opinions, with some saying that filing a censure motion would create a political deadlock if the PM doesn't dissolve the House, while others saying that this may not be the best way to end the political turmoil.

Meanwhile, all signs point to the fact that the Democrat Party wants to win the game before by-elections are held to replace the MPs who have quit. Plus, more MPs, including Suthep's younger brother Shane, are getting ready to step down.


-- The Nation 2013-11-13

[Emptyset]

They may appear to be one step ahead, but things won't remain that way because as I said in the other thread, they don't seem to know what they want or if their best strategy is to focus on street protests or parliament. Whilst the government knows exactly what it wants, to ride this out and stay in power. Unless the protesters can somehow capitalize soon, people will begin to lose interest. Although you might get more diehard groups like the Dhamma Army and the PAD continuing the protests, the government won't be too worried about that, as they don't seem to have the support of the key middle class constitutencies that they had in 2008. If I were the government, I'd probably wait for three or four months to see this out. Doing nothing but trying to maintain calm. Then call an election and go for a fresh start: probably with a new leader...

[greg71]

Is he also responsible for the 7 yr old talking on stage and making a fool of himself and the prostestors?Leave children out of this as this is taking 2 steps back

[tragickingdom]

Actually they are two steps behind now they have called for a nationwide strike and for the refusal of paying taxes. People who depend on their jobs and businesses as well as tourists that will turn to Cambodia and Burma will make them look very bad as their leaders seem to serve only their self interest.

[rubl]

Oh so true!

The leaders only helped themselves in protesting against the amnesty bill as they selfishly demand to stand trial for 'premeditated murder'. Imagine the bloody cheek of them

Actually they are two steps behind now they have called for a nationwide strike and for the refusal of paying taxes. People who depend on their jobs and businesses as well as tourists that will turn to Cambodia and Burma will make them look very bad as their leaders seem to serve only their self interest.

[thaicbr]

Is he also responsible for the 7 yr old talking on stage and making a fool of himself and the prostestors?Leave children out of this as this is taking 2 steps back

What 7 year old?

How did he make a fool of himself?

[thaicbr]

Actually they are two steps behind now they have called for a nationwide strike and for the refusal of paying taxes. People who depend on their jobs and businesses as well as tourists that will turn to Cambodia and Burma will make them look very bad as their leaders seem to serve only their self interest.

Why would tourists go to Cambodia or Myanmar instead of Thailand? What do they have that Thailand hasn't?

Oh and i like your new avatar.. PTP flag by any chance?

[siampolee]

Ever thought that a 'civil disobedience'' campaign here in Thailand might just improve the quality of life?

Cars stopping at red lights, policemen desisting in taking bribes, Pattaya Jet Ski scams cease, Phuket taxi mafia start to operate legally as a result of disobeying the current rules and regulations official or otherwise. Tax evading companies and individuals and family concerns ( I'm sure we all must know one of those three aforementioned cases) actually paying their dues oh the list is endless as anarchy reigns at the moment perhaps a civil disobedience which would in this case assume a civil obedience campaign scheme might well show great results in the exchequers income along with an improvement in life too.

Shame Thomas Moore is not alive to advise all concerned on the concept of ''Utopia.''

[bigbamboo]

The Dems do have one advantage over PT in that they don't need to keep referring every decision 'upstairs'.

[francescoassisi]

The Dems do have one advantage over PT in that they don't need to keep referring every decision 'upstairs'.

Except as they are unelectable, that is pretty much irrelevent.

[Jasun]

Doesn't really matter how many steps they are ahead, the genie is already out of the red bottle.

[15Peter20]

The Dems do have one advantage over PT in that they don't need to keep referring every decision 'upstairs'.

I wouldn't say that...

[oldthaihand99]

Ever thought that a 'civil disobedience'' campaign here in Thailand might just improve the quality of life?

Cars stopping at red lights, policemen desisting in taking bribes, Pattaya Jet Ski scams cease, Phuket taxi mafia start to operate legally as a result of disobeying the current rules and regulations official or otherwise. Tax evading companies and individuals and family concerns ( I'm sure we all must know one of those three aforementioned cases) actually paying their dues oh the list is endless as anarchy reigns at the moment perhaps a civil disobedience which would in this case assume a civil obedience campaign scheme might well show great results in the exchequers income along with an improvement in life too.

Shame Thomas Moore is not alive to advise all concerned on the concept of ''Utopia.''

This is Asia, not the USA or their kissing cousins Singapore.

[Thai at Heart]

Is this article admitting that the democrats are in cahoots with the protest leaders?, is this insinuating that these are one in the same group?

Wouldn't it be a little unconstitutional for a political party to be part and parcel to a plot to overthrow a sitting government ?

Surely they didn't just admit that?

[fab4]

Oh so true!

The leaders only helped themselves in protesting against the amnesty bill as they selfishly demand to stand trial for 'premeditated murder'. Imagine the bloody cheek of them

Actually they are two steps behind now they have called for a nationwide strike and for the refusal of paying taxes. People who depend on their jobs and businesses as well as tourists that will turn to Cambodia and Burma will make them look very bad as their leaders seem to serve only their self interest.

Well for "leaders" who "selfishly demand (ed) to stand trial for 'premeditated murder", they haven't been pushing too hard to appear for their court appearances. Next appearance due 8th January I understand, if they're not to "busy" doing other things like trying to obstruct elections.

Edited January 1, 2014 by fab4

[ginjag]

Oh so true!

The leaders only helped themselves in protesting against the amnesty bill as they selfishly demand to stand trial for 'premeditated murder'. Imagine the bloody cheek of them

Actually they are two steps behind now they have called for a nationwide strike and for the refusal of paying taxes. People who depend on their jobs and businesses as well as tourists that will turn to Cambodia and Burma will make them look very bad as their leaders seem to serve only their self interest.

Well for "leaders" who "selfishly demand (ed) to stand trial for 'premeditated murder", they haven't been pushing too hard to appear for their court appearances. Next appearance due 8th January I understand, if they're not to "busy" doing other things like trying to obstruct elections.

How about YOUR fabulous law abiding family, about time one or two answered for their CRIMES ????

At least the ones you are talking about are HERE and not run OFF

Edited January 1, 2014 by ginjag

[ratcatcher]

Is this article admitting that the democrats are in cahoots with the protest leaders?, is this insinuating that these are one in the same group?

Wouldn't it be a little unconstitutional for a political party to be part and parcel to a plot to overthrow a sitting government ?

Surely they didn't just admit that?

"Wouldn't it be a little unconstitutional for a political party to be part and parcel to a plot to overthrow a sitting government ?"

Does Thailand have a government that is sitting?

[fab4]

Oh so true!

The leaders only helped themselves in protesting against the amnesty bill as they selfishly demand to stand trial for 'premeditated murder'. Imagine the bloody cheek of them

Actually they are two steps behind now they have called for a nationwide strike and for the refusal of paying taxes. People who depend on their jobs and businesses as well as tourists that will turn to Cambodia and Burma will make them look very bad as their leaders seem to serve only their self interest.

Well for "leaders" who "selfishly demand (ed) to stand trial for 'premeditated murder", they haven't been pushing too hard to appear for their court appearances. Next appearance due 8th January I understand, if they're not to "busy" doing other things like trying to obstruct elections.

How about YOUR fabulous law abiding family, about time one or two answered for their CRIMES ????

At least the ones you are talking about are HER and not run OFF

They're not my family. I was answering a post from rubl about abhisit and suthep. What your post is about I have no idea, and care less.

[fab4]

Is this article admitting that the democrats are in cahoots with the protest leaders?, is this insinuating that these are one in the same group?

Wouldn't it be a little unconstitutional for a political party to be part and parcel to a plot to overthrow a sitting government ?

Surely they didn't just admit that?

"Wouldn't it be a little unconstitutional for a political party to be part and parcel to a plot to overthrow a sitting government ?"

Does Thailand have a government that is sitting?

There is a caretaker government in situ awaiting the results of a new election. There are still affairs of State being carried out , so, Yes.

You can of course investigate the definition yourself, I'm sure.

[ginjag]

Oh so true!

The leaders only helped themselves in protesting against the amnesty bill as they selfishly demand to stand trial for 'premeditated murder'. Imagine the bloody cheek of them

Well for "leaders" who "selfishly demand (ed) to stand trial for 'premeditated murder", they haven't been pushing too hard to appear for their court appearances. Next appearance due 8th January I understand, if they're not to "busy" doing other things like trying to obstruct elections.

How about YOUR fabulous law abiding family, about time one or two answered for their CRIMES ????

At least the ones you are talking about are HER and not run OFF

They're not my family. I was answering a post from rubl about abhisit and suthep. What your post is about I have no idea, and care less.

You last sentence -that is what my post is about.

When has it become a crime to post an answer to another poster. You want it a closed shop???

Why is your answer so mind boggling -as you said you had no idea what I was talking about.----WHY?? you wrote what you wrote not me.

[jackrich]

"Protests perfectly managed".

In terms of taxi drivers being beaten to death for wanting to return their taxi on time? Or buses being smashed with iron sticks and old women injured inside? Or policemen being killed while doing their jobs? And I'm not talking about property damage here, I'm just talking about people being killed by these "innocent protesters".

Edited January 1, 2014 by jackrich

[rubl]

Oh so true!

The leaders only helped themselves in protesting against the amnesty bill as they selfishly demand to stand trial for 'premeditated murder'. Imagine the bloody cheek of them

Actually they are two steps behind now they have called for a nationwide strike and for the refusal of paying taxes. People who depend on their jobs and businesses as well as tourists that will turn to Cambodia and Burma will make them look very bad as their leaders seem to serve only their self interest.

Well for "leaders" who "selfishly demand (ed) to stand trial for 'premeditated murder", they haven't been pushing too hard to appear for their court appearances. Next appearance due 8th January I understand, if they're not to "busy" doing other things like trying to obstruct elections.

You seem to forget that k. Abhisit/Suthep are requested to come and hear new charges every time an inquest leads to 'probably the army'. They have acknowledged charges at least four or five times already by now. In those cases the court & prosecuters can procede with whatever needs to be done but till now no case has progressed to the point were the accused have to show up again.

BTW where you may rightly say that k. Suthep seems to obstruct the proceeding of election preparations, the same cannot be said for k. Abhisit. He only boycots them.

Edited January 1, 2014 by rubl

[Ozymandias]

Ever thought that a 'civil disobedience'' campaign here in Thailand might just improve the quality of life?

Cars stopping at red lights, policemen desisting in taking bribes, Pattaya Jet Ski scams cease, Phuket taxi mafia start to operate legally as a result of disobeying the current rules and regulations official or otherwise. Tax evading companies and individuals and family concerns ( I'm sure we all must know one of those three aforementioned cases) actually paying their dues oh the list is endless as anarchy reigns at the moment perhaps a civil disobedience which would in this case assume a civil obedience campaign scheme might well show great results in the exchequers income along with an improvement in life too.

Shame Thomas Moore is not alive to advise all concerned on the concept of ''Utopia.''

All very nice but woefully naive. You need to do some research into how clean Suthep is. So clean that his fellow Democrat MPs complained about his corruption in 2011. So clean that his appropriation of Phuket land set aside for the poor to give/sell to friends & acquaintances led to the downfall of the last majority Dem govt under Chuan Leekpai. Do you really believe that such a truly venal career politician is genuinely interested in introducing reforms to prevent the very corruption he himself has benefitted from for 25+ years?

There are too many posters here who conveniently ignore/turn a blind eye/deny the corruption of their leaders, red or yellow. Own up: clean Thai leaders, red yellow or others, are few & far between. Thailand is endemically corrupt from the top down. I will eat several hats if it changes significantly in the next 25 years, as in several recent surveys 65-75% of Thais have said they accept corruption when it benefits them. You get the system & govt you deserve.

[ginjag]

Ever thought that a 'civil disobedience'' campaign here in Thailand might just improve the quality of life?

Cars stopping at red lights, policemen desisting in taking bribes, Pattaya Jet Ski scams cease, Phuket taxi mafia start to operate legally as a result of disobeying the current rules and regulations official or otherwise. Tax evading companies and individuals and family concerns ( I'm sure we all must know one of those three aforementioned cases) actually paying their dues oh the list is endless as anarchy reigns at the moment perhaps a civil disobedience which would in this case assume a civil obedience campaign scheme might well show great results in the exchequers income along with an improvement in life too.

Shame Thomas Moore is not alive to advise all concerned on the concept of ''Utopia.''

All very nice but woefully naive. You need to do some research into how clean Suthep is. So clean that his fellow Democrat MPs complained about his corruption in 2011. So clean that his appropriation of Phuket land set aside for the poor to give/sell to friends & acquaintances led to the downfall of the last majority Dem govt under Chuan Leekpai. Do you really believe that such a truly venal career politician is genuinely interested in introducing reforms to prevent the very corruption he himself has benefitted from for 25+ years?

There are too many posters here who conveniently ignore/turn a blind eye/deny the corruption of their leaders, red or yellow. Own up: clean Thai leaders, red yellow or others, are few & far between. Thailand is endemically corrupt from the top down. I will eat several hats if it changes significantly in the next 25 years, as in several recent surveys 65-75% of Thais have said they accept corruption when it benefits them. You get the system & govt you deserve.

I will back any side that is trying to clean the job up, if they are also phony then I will have to do a U turn and back the next best way out.

Your post is near spot on, I sound like a Dem/whatever supporter but anyone is bound to look that way if they believe the said government is abusing it's power, and this government is at it again. The family was thrown out before/asked to resign -same same.

[Robby nz]

Wondered when I saw this topic come up again why anyone would want to resurrect it but I see its only to have another pick

However we have one poster here who has not got a very good grasp on recent goings on, or is it me who is missing something.

Protests perfectly managed".

In terms of taxi drivers being beaten to death for wanting to return their taxi on time? Or buses being smashed with iron sticks and old women injured inside? Or policemen being killed while doing their jobs? And I'm not talking about property damage here, I'm just talking about people being killed by these "innocent protesters".

Perhaps you would like to post a link to where a taxi driver was killed.

Then another where injured old women were in a bus being smashed, yes I know a bus was smashed, but injured old women ?

And I see you have been able to determine the Policeman who was unfortunately killed was killed by protesters even though the police have not.

You have probably missed the student that was also shot and the other protesters who have been shot and killed as well as all the injuries caused to the protesters including those who were arrested and beaten up by the police.

You probably missed the police smashing the reporters car as well,

However back to the resurrected topic

So far the protesters have achieved what they have set out to do.

They got the Amnesty bill dropped.

They have forced PT to resign.

They have got everyone talking about the need for reforms including the reds.

They have prevented candidates registration in several southern provinces which looks likely to have the effect of making any election, should it go ahead, null and void.

The EC (Election Commission for those who cant understand abbreviations) is making statements almost every day saying how improbable it is that an election can go ahead, or if it does can achieve a result.

So far the previous government and caretaker government have lost on every front and they still have the NACC (National Anti Corruption Commission) and court decisions to come and those are likely to go against them.

They have still not got Yingluck out but she is being pushed by more groups every day so it will come.

[JAG]

At whivh point the people who elevted her, ( and who will have seen the last 4 governments which they have elected manouvred out of power by various unelected groups)

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JAG]

(Sorry fat fingers) these people will get a tad annoyed don't you think?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MaiChai]

Despite all the smoke and mirrors, i think most Thais want clean/fair/transparent government that really works for the people. Also most people want more equality in society. Just simple rights that will most want. Thus support for Suthep and trying to do it in a peaceful, lawful way.

[retsdon]

With the rice scheme debacle coming to a head and all the other government own goals, if the Democrats had stayed within the law, waited for the next election and fought the issues with a vigorous and imaginative campaign, they could have won a proper democratic election. Instead, they have led a campaign to plunge the country into anarchy in the hope of inducing a military coup following which the military will gift them the reins of power again.

What does that say about their commitment a) to the rule of law, and to democracy?

[fish fingers]

I think it's inevitable that the army will have to come in, I'm guessing we won't have to wait long, maybe a matter of weeks.