Problem With Relationship

[Simbo]

A friend of mine ( not TV member) has been in a long relationship with a girl much younger than his 56 years. She is still only 22. I always thought he was officially married, having given 100k to the family. They have a daughter of 2 and a half, whom he dotes on.

Recently, his wife has been staying out for long periods. The phone bills had unfamiliar numbers. He became suspicious and phoned a no that came up a lot. A woman answered the phone.

to cut it short, it elapsed, his wife had been having an affair with a Thai.

The house and car, he bought in her name. The affair to a married man, has supposedly come to an end. Her family found out, came to visit, and were very angry with her. They insisted she kiss his feet, something I have never heard before. They are fully on his side,but he is not sure he can trust her again.

She says he can keep the house and just pay her 10k per month. Also, he can keep the daughter.

I suspect this is all said in the emotional state of the moment.

I have suggested, if she is so sorry and wants him to stay in the house. Get her to sign the house over to him on a 30 year lease. It will still be hers, but he has a home for life.

Everyone is allowed one mistake.

He doesn't know what to do now, so I suggested putting it on TV for some ( hopefully) good advice.

[Joey Boy]

something I heard a few months back down the pub.. Aint sure if theres much truth in it or not

"If you can prove your Thai wife/gf has been unfaithfull, and you also have evidence that the sole source of funds to buy/build the house was yourself.. Then you can get the whole lot back and leave her with nothing".

Any comments?

[Mighty Mouse]

I feel sorry for the daughter and I hope that her best interests are taken care of.

[wamberal]

A 56 year old man and a 22 year old woman? Sorry, I do not sympathise with either of them.

[greenwanderer108]

something I heard a few months back down the pub.. Aint sure if theres much truth in it or not

"If you can prove your Thai wife/gf has been unfaithfull, and you also have evidence that the sole source of funds to buy/build the house was yourself.. Then you can get the whole lot back and leave her with nothing".

Any comments?

Regarding Thai-Thai couples, I would think that such would be true...but in the end, farang-Thai relationships where the farang is male and Thai is female, don't think farang have much right for claiming anything regarding property-land in a court...

The absolutely only important bottom line in this case is the daughter. Him being farang, if the daughter got the dual nationality, then I presume he signed some document agreeing to support the daughter till age 18 at least. And shame on the mother if she is willing to jump out on her responsibilities as a mother if that is what she intends...

Don't know what to say as far as this old guy. Chances are his hair is greying or balding, perhaps on viagra. When he was 50 and the chick was 20, I'm sure he was aware of the risks of having such an age difference in the relationship. He's probably been around the world in his lifetime. Unless she was a working girl, she has likely not sewed her wild oats...

In the end, something great came out of it all. A luuk kreung baby girl. That's all that matters now...

Questions :

Is the house fully paid for?

Does the wife have any independent income?

[taxexile]

A 56 year old man and a 22 year old woman? Sorry, I do not sympathise with either of them.

nobody asked for your sympathy , go away.

relationships with such enormous age differences often end in tears.

he should accept that it is over .

she may be remorseful now , but the chances are her dissatisfaction inside this relationship will manifest themselves again in the future , if not in unfaithfulness , then in some other ways.

arrangements should be made to end the relationship , without blame or anger , if that is possible , with the care of the daughter in the future being the most important factor.

[BKK90210]

Wow....56 vs 22.

Let's see....The daugther is now 2 + 9 mo. being pregnant + some time before that for the love affair. He must be around 52-53 while she's in 18-19!

Now get back to the situation on hand

1- Of course the family is very upset at her, because he's their walking ATM

2- She told him...."you can have the house back but give me 10k per mo."

Chance is she had already mortgaged the house & took the money....(check on this, just to be sure)

3- About the Thai boyfriend.....he might be in it for her money also!

With 10k/mo. + a few millions bahts from mortgaged the house, could make him happy for yrs...

I guess.....what goes around, comes around!

4) Do you think this could be the pre-planned from her part & her thai boyfriend, since the very beginning?

I hope he still have enough $$$ left to take care his daugther and still be able to retire comfortably.

Edited May 5, 2006 by BKK90210

[GuestHouse]

Taking the events as told at face value my advice would be that he aproaches the girl's family and asks for their guidence.

If they have made their daughter apologize in such a manner it is clear they see her at fault and respect him as the 'husband'.

As for extrapolating these things to other deeds this woman may have committed. Well, unfounded, and not at all helpful really.

[pokoal2000]

HI

I am about same age and I lived with much younger girl (20 years younger) in england.We were together for ten years and really got on well.Still are best of friends.She had few young lovers, but always come back to me.So what? You should accept something like that when you get such a age difference.No big deal. Maybe that is not what you want to hear, but sometime they are more important things to consider. Does it sound weird?Well everybody is different.

Alex

[britmaveric]

Time to move on - sorry infidelity when you are in a committed relationship is a deal breaker. (trust will never be there again) I certainly couldnt take a woman back who did that to me.

[Nawtilus]

Ok, the good news is that he has been stated to 'dote' over his daughter, this is a good thing of course, means he loves and has a lot of time for her.

What I would possibly suggest is, if he and her family could get her to sign over the house to the daughter, provided she has thai nationality. Then at the same time have her sign over a 30 year lease with another 20 year option, possible to live 86yo, but 106 not likely.

This way he has a home to raise his daughter, he has a home to live in after the daughter grows up. When he dies, it becomes hers fully...well it is hers fully, but she gets to do whatever she wants with it.

Problem with this is that as the child being under age, any requirements for the property need to be applied and approved in court, time consuming and costly for nothing. You need to have a guardian as an authority for the child and I am not sure if a farang can be this sole guardian. It may be that it can be a shared role with a trusted Thai.

One thing to think about this option is that there have been many instances of relatives or lawyers being left control of assetts for children etc and then they swindle the goods away by greedy manipulation. Have to be careful how you set it up.

But it would be better to be like this and still in his distant posession/use, than with an ex wife sleeping around if they split up.

Also, the likelyhood of her and her family taking this road should be high if you spin it as being a selfless act by you, giving your child a head start, nothing in it for you for example in the long term.

[chuchok]

something I heard a few months back down the pub.. Aint sure if theres much truth in it or not

"If you can prove your Thai wife/gf has been unfaithfull, and you also have evidence that the sole source of funds to buy/build the house was yourself.. Then you can get the whole lot back and leave her with nothing".

Any comments?

Regarding Thai-Thai couples, I would think that such would be true...but in the end, farang-Thai relationships where the farang is male and Thai is female, don't think farang have much right for claiming anything regarding property-land in a court...

I don't know if this is correct.The law is quite specific about infidelity and is partly based on buddhism.dosn't matter if you are farang or Thai.Not sure about the property part though.need to see a GOOD professional about this.A guy with references.

[Simbo]

something I heard a few months back down the pub.. Aint sure if theres much truth in it or not

"If you can prove your Thai wife/gf has been unfaithfull, and you also have evidence that the sole source of funds to buy/build the house was yourself.. Then you can get the whole lot back and leave her with nothing".

Any comments?

Regarding Thai-Thai couples, I would think that such would be true...but in the end, farang-Thai relationships where the farang is male and Thai is female, don't think farang have much right for claiming anything regarding property-land in a court...

The absolutely only important bottom line in this case is the daughter. Him being farang, if the daughter got the dual nationality, then I presume he signed some document agreeing to support the daughter till age 18 at least. And shame on the mother if she is willing to jump out on her responsibilities as a mother if that is what she intends...

Don't know what to say as far as this old guy. Chances are his hair is greying or balding, perhaps on viagra. When he was 50 and the chick was 20, I'm sure he was aware of the risks of having such an age difference in the relationship. He's probably been around the world in his lifetime. Unless she was a working girl, she has likely not sewed her wild oats...

In the end, something great came out of it all. A luuk kreung baby girl. That's all that matters now...

Questions :

Is the house fully paid for?

Does the wife have any independent income?

he has never been married before and still isn't

She worked as a hotel receptionist. I don't think she had been around.

She has no source of income

The house is fully paid for, but in her name, as is the car.

[Mobi]

The situation really doesn't sound too good.

Your friend must proceed very carefully to get himself in the best possible situation, if things turn start to go bad.

Now, I managed to recover a house from a girl by going to court, but the situation was slightly different. I wasn't married to her, and I was able to prove that she in fact defrauded me and put the house in her name rather than in my company name, as we had planned. I had a crucial witness and letter of agreement which proved this beyond doubt. I also had to provide documentary evidence of all the money transfers to her account. The court ordered the house to be sold and the proceeds handed over to me, as I was not allowed to own the house, and they would not allow a transfer to my company. I would suggest a discreet visit to a good lawyer to establish your friend's rights and options in this regard. But beware, it is a very, very long process.

I would strongly recommend that his first option is to go for the 30 years lease. This has obvious benefits for both sides, and if it can accomplished amicably, then it is definitely the best option. That's another reason to get a good lawyer (on his side) so that the lawyer can properly explain all this to his wife. However it would still be useful to know where he stands on recovering the house. If she refuses the lease suggestion, he can at least threaten to take her to court, even if he never does.

Forget the car - it it all turns bad, he's lost it.

He really has to play a bit of a waiting game and get all his cards lined up in advance of her next forray into infidelity, as it's almost certain to happen. The trust has been broken and its difficult to see any long term future in the relationship, which was always going to be a very tough road. It will save him a lot of anguish, heartbreak and probably money, if he comes to terms with this reality sooner rather than later.

[greenwanderer108]

something I heard a few months back down the pub.. Aint sure if theres much truth in it or not

"If you can prove your Thai wife/gf has been unfaithfull, and you also have evidence that the sole source of funds to buy/build the house was yourself.. Then you can get the whole lot back and leave her with nothing".

Any comments?

Regarding Thai-Thai couples, I would think that such would be true...but in the end, farang-Thai relationships where the farang is male and Thai is female, don't think farang have much right for claiming anything regarding property-land in a court...

I don't know if this is correct.The law is quite specific about infidelity and is partly based on buddhism.dosn't matter if you are farang or Thai.Not sure about the property part though.need to see a GOOD professional about this.A guy with references.

Buddhist philosphy and principles are all great and dandy, but at the end of the day, farang have no rights whatsoever in claims to any property / land on Thai soil. So in respect to Thai infidelity laws relating to property claims, in Thailand IT DOES matter if you are farang/Thai.

[Mobi]

Buddhist philosphy and principles are all great and dandy, but at the end of the day, farang have no rights whatsoever in claims to any property / land on Thai soil. So in respect to Thai infidelity laws relating to property claims, in Thailand IT DOES matter if you are farang/Thai.

Only to the extent that the property has to be sold and the funds handed over to the farang. (As I explained above)

Used to be the same in the days when Thais married to foreigners were not allowed to own property. If found out, the court ordered the property to be sold and the wife received the sale proceeds.

[greenwanderer108]

he has never been married before and still isn't

She worked as a hotel receptionist. I don't think she had been around.

She has no source of income

The house is fully paid for, but in her name, as is the car.

I'm not sure I follow you when you say that 'he has never been married before and still isn't'

???So, at 56, he's didn't even marry this broad???

As far as house and property, the 30 year lease suggestion sounds most logical...

As far as the 10,000 baht salary to her,

it is ABSOLUTELY rediculous, silly, absurd, and illogical!! not only by western standards, but Thai as well.

If he pays her any salary, he is a fool! You don't reward someone for sleeping around on you!!! She's not helpless...she has worked before, she can work again. Sounds like she's got him by the balls and trying to take advantage of him.

In the case that the two do split up, the only way he should be obligated to pay the broad anything is if she did take an active role raising the daughter.

Certainly not dumping the responsibility on him alone and expecting a monthly stipend for doing nothing... Dumb farang blokes might feel justified paying their Thai hookers a monthly stipend to take care of sick buffalo or whatever, but the whole idea of paying such a 'loyalty fee' (that never seems to work anyway) is absolutely an exploitation of Thai people/culture.

Thais don't pay their wives, and certainly wouldn't pay their X-wives...They might pay their mia noys out of guilt or to keep them quiet and in check....however, in this case,

This girl is not a hooker nor a mia noy and This guy is not a sex tourist. He's a father, She's a mother...So you can just disregard this monthly salary crap as a 'good try' on her part...

Then again, if you left something out of the story i.e. he slept around at the kareoke bar first, then everything I said is irrelevent. I'm just curious why she would expect a monthly salary after cheating on him? Like I said, you might expect something like this with a hooker and a sex tourist....

anything else left out of the initial story???

Edited May 5, 2006 by greenwanderer108

[tuky]

Joey Boy,

I have a mate that tells me his mate had a similar problem to this. Apparently he was able to prove that the lady broke the marriage contract by sleeping with a Thai man and he was awarded half the house proceeds. This is not first hand info, but comes from a bloke that I have worked wit for the last 10 years.

I have never heard of this before, so I questioned it and apparently he spent more money than he got back by fighting it here in Thailand, and he won.

I willask my mate tomorrow and see if I can get some more info. Or maybe I will call in the Mythbusters.

[Thaipwriter]

but at the end of the day, farang have no rights whatsoever in claims to any property / land on Thai soil.

Unless, of course the land /hose is leased to the said farang or it is registered to a Ltd company that the farang has some control over.

Or if the purchase of the property occured during the marital phase then the farang has claim to 50% of marital assetts.

So not quite no rights, is it?

[Simbo]

he has never been married before and still isn't

She worked as a hotel receptionist. I don't think she had been around.

She has no source of income

The house is fully paid for, but in her name, as is the car.

I'm not sure I follow you when you say that 'he has never been married before and still isn't'

???So, at 56, he's didn't even marry this broad???

As far as house and property, the 30 year lease suggestion sounds most logical...

As far as the 10,000 baht salary to her,

it is ABSOLUTELY rediculous, silly, absurd, and illogical!! not only by western standards, but Thai as well.

If he pays her any salary, he is a fool! You don't reward someone for sleeping around on you!!! She's not helpless...she has worked before, she can work again. Sounds like she's got him by the balls and trying to take advantage of him.

In the case that the two do split up, the only way he should be obligated to pay the broad anything is if she did take an active role raising the daughter.

Certainly not dumping the responsibility on him alone and expecting a monthly stipend for doing nothing... Dumb farang blokes might feel justified paying their Thai hookers a monthly stipend to take care of sick buffalo or whatever, but the whole idea of paying such a 'loyalty fee' (that never seems to work anyway) is absolutely an exploitation of Thai people/culture.

Thais don't pay their wives, and certainly wouldn't pay their X-wives...They might pay their mia noys out of guilt or to keep them quiet and in check....however, in this case,

This girl is not a hooker nor a mia noy and This guy is not a sex tourist. He's a father, She's a mother...So you can just disregard this monthly salary crap as a 'good try' on her part...

Then again, if you left something out of the story i.e. he slept around at the kareoke bar first, then everything I said is irrelevent. I'm just curious why she would expect a monthly salary after cheating on him? Like I said, you might expect something like this with a hooker and a sex tourist....

anything else left out of the initial story???

From what I can gather, she wants to start a salon and the rent is 10k. If he agrees to this, she will leave him with the daughter. Or else, she said, he would never see her again. I think this was said before the family got involved,so that may be unlikely. But, TRT. I have never known him to play around. He is more of a sportsman. Soccer, pool, etc

[Simbo]

As I previously said, I assumed he was offically married. He paid the family 100k. But he tells me, he only had a buddha wedding, not Amphur. He is so p---ed off with it all, he talks about just walking away, but for the baby. This would obviously suit her down to the ground.

[Mobi]

As I previously said, I assumed he was offically married. He paid the family 100k. But he tells me, he only had a buddha wedding, not Amphur. He is so p---ed off with it all, he talks about just walking away, but for the baby. This would obviously suit her down to the ground.

Simbo,

It must have been late coz I didn't read your original post properly. Anyway, now we have all the facts, my original advice still stands. He should go easy and try to make out that he forgives her and make a fresh start. the whole purpose of this is to try and get her to agree to a 30 year lease. If they are in confontation, she will never agree. He has to try and get the upper hand. Most of these girls are totally confident they can twist farangs around their little fingers and they will lap up any new bullshit that's thrown at them. He can use this arrogance to his advantage as she won't believe he will be as devious as she is. Tell him to go along with it all and get that lease, by whatever pretext.

If she refuses, he can threaten her with legal action - she may go for it as she might worry that if she doesn't she'll lose everything.

At the end of the day he has to tell her to piss off - with or without the house. It's all bluff - I can't see her taking the kid if she's got no money, and she obviously doesn't care about it. On no account should he pay her 10,000 per month salary, but there's nothing to stop him pretending to go along with this arrangement until he has got his lease, and/or custody of the baby.

Just a thought, it sounds like the family might be a bit better than her, so depending on your friend's situation, maybe the kid could be placed with the family, and he could contribute a towrds maintenance. It's difficult to advise on this without knowing the people involved.

Edited May 6, 2006 by Mobi D'Ark

[Nawtilus]

My god, I would never leave any one of my kids with my Thai inlaws. That would not be even last on the list.

In fact I have left instructions in my Will that if anything happens to both of us, the kids are to be brought up back home. Never to be left with relations here, NEVER.

The worst nightmares I could have would be my kids being taken to grandmas to be brought up the rest of their lives. Scary movie #5.

He should play along with the 10k, get the lease...not 30 years...and the property title changed to his daughter.

Then when all is sweet, let her go and take care of herself if that is what he wishes.

But dont forget, she is still the mother and unless she was REALLY intent on giving the kid away herself, then she still needs to be treated as such. But if she does not care for the child and was willin to let her go, then <deleted> her and do what you have to for your own security and by default the childs as well.

[Maigo6]

infidelity when you are in a committed relationship is a deal breaker.

You wanna frame that statement and hang it up in all the Short time Bars in Soi Yodsak, I wonder how many Farangs that are cheating on their wives would agree with you?

Edited May 6, 2006 by Maigo6

[Maigo6]

My god, I would never leave any one of my kids with my Thai inlaws. That would not be even last on the list.

In fact I have left instructions in my Will that if anything happens to both of us, the kids are to be brought up back home. Never to be left with relations here, NEVER.

Sounds like you married into a good Family.

[Mobi]

My god, I would never leave any one of my kids with my Thai inlaws. That would not be even last on the list.

In fact I have left instructions in my Will that if anything happens to both of us, the kids are to be brought up back home. Never to be left with relations here, NEVER.

The worst nightmares I could have would be my kids being taken to grandmas to be brought up the rest of their lives. Scary movie #5.

He should play along with the 10k, get the lease...not 30 years...and the property title changed to his daughter.

Then when all is sweet, let her go and take care of herself if that is what he wishes.

But dont forget, she is still the mother and unless she was REALLY intent on giving the kid away herself, then she still needs to be treated as such. But if she does not care for the child and was willin to let her go, then <deleted> her and do what you have to for your own security and by default the childs as well.

I did say that you would have to know the people involved.

Obviously you have a very low opinion of your in- laws.

This is going off topic a bit, but:-

My wife has three younger brothers, and one younger sister, (all now in their twenties) and they were raised by their illiterate mother in a small village in Sa Kaeo on very little money. The father was shot dead when my wife was 8 and the mother was a labourer.

All five are well educated, polite, hard working and generous people, and a credit to Sa Kaeo and Thailand. I have also met many of her extended family and friends, and have found most of them to be kind, polite, hard working people. If they had had a little bit of extra money to send them to better schools, I think they would have carved out very good careers - but as it is, they are all in work, and support themselves well.

If the gentleman in question was not in a position to take on the rearing of his daughter, in my humble opinion, he could far worse than put her in the hands of a person such as my mother in law. Especially if there was a bit of extra money available towards a good education.

Of course there are many families of the other kind out there - that's why I said it would depend on the people.

[thaiprivateeye]

"Parental Kidnapping is not a crime in Thailand"!

If you have a child or children, and even if you are in a good steady relationship, you should still check the link below just to be aware of the possibilities...

But pay special attention to:

GENERAL INFORMATION: Parental Kidnapping is not a crime in Thailand and Thai authorities will not issue a warrant or become involved should one parent take a child without the other parent's authorization. The Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction cannot be invoked if a child is taken from the United States to Thailand, or vice versa, by one parent against the wishes of the other parent or in violation of a U.S. custody order.

http://travel.state.gov/family/abduction/c...ountry_528.html

My advice is to get proper legal advice. Every time...

TPE II

[Nawtilus]

Sounds like you married into a good Family.

Firstly, I did not marry the family, I did not even marry the girl. But I chose to be with a great girl from a family of no hopers.

No problem for me really, just I do not wish my kids to be raised by them to get their morals and values and not so good upbringing.

Funny thing is that my missus is so different to them all in most ways. I still believe grandma might have fooled around just once on grandpa.

Cannot choose your inlaws remember.

[Donz]

My future inlaws are great never met nicer people.

Anyways my opinion is if your 50 plus and hooking up with a teenager you will have problems, some might get on fine as it depends how mature the girl is and how young hearted the man is, but i think majority just are not on the same wave length to begin with and have 2 very different ways of thinking which will cause lots of probs.

[a2396]

he has never been married before and still isn't

She worked as a hotel receptionist. I don't think she had been around.

She has no source of income

The house is fully paid for, but in her name, as is the car.

I'm not sure I follow you when you say that 'he has never been married before and still isn't'

???So, at 56, he's didn't even marry this broad???

As far as house and property, the 30 year lease suggestion sounds most logical...

As far as the 10,000 baht salary to her,

it is ABSOLUTELY rediculous, silly, absurd, and illogical!! not only by western standards, but Thai as well.

If he pays her any salary, he is a fool! You don't reward someone for sleeping around on you!!! She's not helpless...she has worked before, she can work again. Sounds like she's got him by the balls and trying to take advantage of him.

In the case that the two do split up, the only way he should be obligated to pay the broad anything is if she did take an active role raising the daughter.

Certainly not dumping the responsibility on him alone and expecting a monthly stipend for doing nothing... Dumb farang blokes might feel justified paying their Thai hookers a monthly stipend to take care of sick buffalo or whatever, but the whole idea of paying such a 'loyalty fee' (that never seems to work anyway) is absolutely an exploitation of Thai people/culture.

Thais don't pay their wives, and certainly wouldn't pay their X-wives...They might pay their mia noys out of guilt or to keep them quiet and in check....however, in this case,

This girl is not a hooker nor a mia noy and This guy is not a sex tourist. He's a father, She's a mother...So you can just disregard this monthly salary crap as a 'good try' on her part...

Then again, if you left something out of the story i.e. he slept around at the kareoke bar first, then everything I said is irrelevent. I'm just curious why she would expect a monthly salary after cheating on him? Like I said, you might expect something like this with a hooker and a sex tourist....

anything else left out of the initial story???

This is interesting what you say that Thais don't pay thier wives monthly salary. I think it is rather commonplace for Farangs to do this and Thai women & thier families act that this is thier "birthright". I have asked some of my Thai friends wheather Thai men do the same and the Thais have said yes they do. Sounds like they (my Thai friends) are lying again about this matter. Anyone have more comments??