Citibank Building Elevator Plunges - Three Killed

[Johpa]

As one who is not a lift mechanic, this tragic incident does raise a few questions in my mind. What type of repair would be done on the 25th floor of a 35 storey building? I can't imagine they randomly chose the 25th floor to replace the ropes. If there were survivors, we are certainly not talking about a freefall situation, are we? I would imagine that if there were survivors then the lift must have dropped at a fairly slow speed and that implies there was some braking being applied, but the brakes were not adjusted properly to allow for a complete stopping of the lift.

Is my uneducated mind that far off the mark? Ok, please respond to that question on this topic only!

As you said " not a lift mechanic " so why make speed/freefall/slow speed/IMPLIES/ I repeat

" not a lift mechanic ".

Because unlike some here Mr. Chips, not being a lift mechanic does not mean being ignorant of Newtonian physics. Without the facts there can only be speculation. If you can posit a scenario where a lift free falls from such a height and there are survivors then please let us know how you speculate that might happen; but please, try to leave out the witless redundancies

[uberflight]

I am not particularly active in this forum, however, I feel compelled to share an observation about the emails I get. 80% of the headlines are about some disaster! What the he#@$#$?

Can someone contact the editor and make some changes.

Something like: Hot babes go mad for foreign English teachers.

First plying them with a spectacularly prepared dish of "Goi Say Me" (I think that is what it is called)

before seducing their helpless victims

[lingling]

So many experts!!! Just how many of them are qualified (one way or another & excepting Bronco) to make suggestions about how to perform maintenance?

I am a Facilities Manager for a large building in Sydney. It has a total of 2 goods lifts & 5 passenger lifts. Since the occupancy of the building has doubled in the last 18 months, the lifts have frequent break downs as they were only designed for a building occupancy of 1500. The building occupancy is now 2800. The floor space of the building is about 65 square kilometres (65 000 square metres).

65 square kilometres = 65000000m²

[BlackJack]

So many experts!!! Just how many of them are qualified (one way or another & excepting Bronco) to make suggestions about how to perform maintenance?

I am a Facilities Manager for a large building in Sydney. It has a total of 2 goods lifts & 5 passenger lifts. Since the occupancy of the building has doubled in the last 18 months, the lifts have frequent break downs as they were only designed for a building occupancy of 1500. The building occupancy is now 2800. The floor space of the building is about 65 square kilometres (65 000 square metres).

65 square kilometres = 65000000m²

if you are the manager and know about this problem then you are liable under the OHS

better make sure you have this issue on paper to cover your but in the future

[Maejo Man]

So many experts!!! Just how many of them are qualified (one way or another & excepting Bronco) to make suggestions about how to perform maintenance?

I am a Facilities Manager for a large building in Sydney. It has a total of 2 goods lifts & 5 passenger lifts. Since the occupancy of the building has doubled in the last 18 months, the lifts have frequent break downs as they were only designed for a building occupancy of 1500. The building occupancy is now 2800. The floor space of the building is about 65 square kilometres (65 000 square metres).

I realise that Sydney is a large city, and you are obviously proud of it, but please "The floor space of the building is about 65 square kilometres"

That would give you a building of sixty five floors each 1 square kilometre

[Donz]

Finger pointing to the 2 guys that are dead from this is wrong, especially if we dont really know what happend.

Maybe it was just an old style life and it just gave way.

Many things could of happend, poor buggers

[Artisan]

So many experts!!! Just how many of them are qualified (one way or another & excepting Bronco) to make suggestions about how to perform maintenance?

I am a Facilities Manager for a large building in Sydney. It has a total of 2 goods lifts & 5 passenger lifts. Since the occupancy of the building has doubled in the last 18 months, the lifts have frequent break downs as they were only designed for a building occupancy of 1500. The building occupancy is now 2800. The floor space of the building is about 65 square kilometres (65 000 square metres).

I realise that Sydney is a large city, and you are obviously proud of it, but please "The floor space of the building is about 65 square kilometres"

That would give you a building of sixty five floors each 1 square kilometre

Don't confuse 1 square kilometre with 1 kilometre square. Assuming the building is of an even square cross-section from floor to roof, then the dimensions of the building are only 31 metres by 31 metres ...far from excessive at that.

Edited May 8, 2006 by Artisan

[elkangorito]

So many experts!!! Just how many of them are qualified (one way or another & excepting Bronco) to make suggestions about how to perform maintenance?

I am a Facilities Manager for a large building in Sydney. It has a total of 2 goods lifts & 5 passenger lifts. Since the occupancy of the building has doubled in the last 18 months, the lifts have frequent break downs as they were only designed for a building occupancy of 1500. The building occupancy is now 2800. The floor space of the building is about 65 square kilometres (65 000 square metres).

65 square kilometres = 65000000m²

Thanks for the correction lingling. I should have said 0.065 km squared.

[Maejo Man]

Don't confuse 1 square kilometre with 1 kilometre square. Assuming the building is of an even square cross-section from floor to roof, then the dimensions of the building are only 31 metres by 31 metres ...far from excessive at that.

El Kangeroo said...The floor space of the building is about 65 square kilometres. He lives in Australia where everything is big.

Square kilometre

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Square kilometre (U.S. spelling: square kilometer), symbol km², is an SI unit of surface area. It is one of the SI derived units.

1 km² is equal to:

the area of a square measuring 1 kilometre on each side

1 000 000 m2

100 hectares

Now tell me that ain't so You assumed (wrongly) 1000 sq metres

[Krit]

While my condolences aren't going to help anyone, I would like to at least think they did not try in vain but trying to make the lifts safer for the rest of us. Apparently, elevator repairer is one of the more dangerous jobs in whatever country.

I live in 48th floor and kind of have to use elevators every day. I have felt and still feel safe in them, especially as the building is new and very well taken care of. However, during the few months I've spent here, I must say I'm somewhat surprised by the general lack of safety appreciation in Thailand. The culture seems very fatalistic: If you go to the temple and wear your amulet, nothing is going to happen to you, so why take any unnecessary precautions. Every now and then someone gets hurt, of course, but it's probably because they did something wrong and their amulet lost its power, not because they really should have worn the seatbelt.

I guess the happy-go-lucky attitude is an inseparable part of Thai culture and so be it, but there are some things that I believe Thais could and really should learn from us.

While we probably cannot tell the taxi driver to keep his hands on the steering wheel instead of wai'ing the corner shrine (which he can barely see from behind those flowers and amulets hanging from the rearview mirror), we might just take the time to dig the seatbelt fastener from inside the bench and use this simplest of safety devices, not only to set an example but to make the world a safer place for ourselves - as well as for the driver, who in a high-speed accident situation might be crushed by the free-flying passenger's bodyweight.

To the amazement of one driver, I've actually done some invasive back seat research once, and we were indeed able to locate the fasteners with my friend. "Safety first," the driver laughed, apparently amused by such peculiar farang behaviour. I assume he put them inside the bench again so that the next passenger's joyous 200 km ride wouldn't be disturbed by these clumsy objects. However, I don't feel that the unnecessary risk-taking and even straightforward recklessness is an aspect of Thai culture that we as foreigners should only accept and cherish as such.

[elkangorito]

I suppose that all of this talk, comes down to 'choices'.

As a farang who is reasonably familiar with Thailand & its ways, I now 'choose' things. For example, I 'choose' to travel in a car driven by my Thai friend or I do not 'choose' to do so (knowing how bad Thai drivers are).

As far as lifts are concerned, I guess that all farangs who are knowledgeable of Thai ways, can always 'choose' the stairs instead of forcing other issues. Life is full of alternatives. It is the people who do not want to change who wish others to change for them. Mind you, I don't relish the idea of walking the stairs for 45 floors...but what is the value of your life? What chance are you willing to take? What will you choose?

Having said this, simple safety measures may not adversely affect Thai culture & therefore could be initiated easily.

[Artisan]

Square kilometre (U.S. spelling: square kilometer), symbol km², is an SI unit of surface area. It is one of the SI derived units.

1 km² is equal to:

the area of a square measuring 1 kilometre on each side

1 000 000 m2

100 hectares

Now tell me that ain't so You assumed (wrongly) 1000 sq metres

Using SI derived nomenclature, you are absolutely right of course....I am sorry. But, please consider my post in terms of dimensions other than 1.

[Maejo Man]

Using SI derived nomenclature, you are absolutely right of course....I am sorry. But, please consider my post in terms of dimensions other than 1.

Not a problem Artisan, it's just that 65 sq kms seemed just a "trifle" on the large size even for Australia

[John K]

I quickly skimmed this thread, and I did not see what I am about to post however I may have missed it.

I know several people at another elevator company in Bangkok. Apparently they have inside information on what happed in this tragic accident. I don’t know much about how these things are put together, however the project was to replace the sling that suspends the car. Apparently that had to be done near the top, but that’s not the method the other company uses. It was a brief description of the accident but from what he said the car slipped out of the sling as there were doing the transfer. So all the safety breaking apparatus is still up on top with the sling and just the box fell.

[elkangorito]

Today (9/5/06) I quizzed the lift technician whe generally services my building.

Here's what he said;

1. Re-roping is only done every 20-25 years. (how old was the building?)

2. Re-roping is only necessary when at least 'one' rope becomes stretched or fractured.

3. It depends upon the lift system, as there are a few different types.

He also said that when changing ropes;

1. The lift car is normally brought to the highest point & the counter-weights are secured so that they will not add to the load on the lift (the counter-weights are heavier than the lift car).

2. A 'block & tackle' is used to release the lift from the weight/load of the cables & counter-weights.

3. The 'grab' brakes are engaged.

This info only applies to a certain type of lift, as not all lifts are the same.

So, some questions remain;

1. What type of lift was it?

2. Did the 'grab' brakes operate? (lack of routine maintenance could allow them to seize).

3. What type of 'block & tackle' was used & was it employed BEFORE all maintenance activities commenced? Most passenger lift cars have a load of 3 tonnes. therefore a minimum 5 tonne 'block & tackle' should have been used.

[John K]

I can’t say for sure but it sounded like it was to replace the sling and not the rope. There may have been a flaw in the equipment that was detected during an inspection. Again I don’t know for sure as it was only very quick conversation as I could clearly see it was a reminder of the inherent dangers of their jobs. Because of that I changed the subject quickly as I could tell they were uncomfortable talking about the loss of colleagues even if from another company. Apparently the company involved with the accident was Hitachi (post #12). The people I talked to were at Kone Thai Lift.