Long Neck Karens - What the story?

[junglechef]

Have heard different things as I'm sure there are different situations surrounding their circumstances. Interested in hearing any opinions, experiences or stories you might have. Please share.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Originally those rings around the neck were for Tiger attacks.

The tiger would sneak up and go for the jugular and get freaked out from biting at metal.

I rode to this Karen village from Somoeng. 18°46'50.77"N 98°38'49.32"E

It's great rough road mountain biking with very little traffic.

Not my photos but here are some images of that village.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/71328755?source=wapi&referrer=kh.google.com

[eyecatcher]

I learned a lot about them from this article that was written last year

http://www.chiangmainews.com/ecmn/viewfa.php?id=3893

It does make you think about their plight. My next door neighbours are of karen hilltribe descent and the brother works on the border, tells me every day many many people still fleeing, homeless, no posessions over into Thailand. The situation is dire but we and the toursits are oblivious to it all.

[elektrified]

Long necks are Kayan I believe.

[KRS1]

their necks arent really long, those rings push the collar bone down making it look like a longer neck.

they add rings as they progress.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Probably a good place to start.... I learned a lot just now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_people

and the Kayans who Wikipedia at least says are a subset of Karen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayan_people_(Burma)

[elektrified]

Probably a good place to start.... I learned a lot just now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_people

and the Kayans who Wikipedia at least says are a subset of Karen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayan_people_(Burma)

I was only going on what our housekeeper of many years told me. She was Karen, born in Mae Hong Son Thailand. She said the long necks are "not her people", that they are Kayan mostly born in Burma or on the border.

Also at the International music festival here in September there were many Karen people there performing and none had the long necks. They look totally different. Like you said, the article says they are a subset of Karen. I'm not an expert by any means...

[fasteddie]

Originally those rings around the neck were for Tiger attacks.

The tiger would sneak up and go for the jugular and get freaked out from biting at metal.

I rode to this Karen village from Somoeng. 18°46'50.77"N 98°38'49.32"E

It's great rough road mountain biking with very little traffic.

Not my photos but here are some images of that village.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/71328755?source=wapi&referrer=kh.google.com

"Originally those rings around the neck were for Tiger attacks.

The tiger would sneak up and go for the jugular and get freaked out from biting at metal"

Just an old wives tale,

[orchidlady]

The only women who are supposed to wear the rings (have the "long neck") in their culture are women born on a full moon on Wednesday. But the people who started the tours to their village many years ago realized the potential for money (for them not for the women) and so they have coerced many other women in the tribe to wear the rings. They have to sleep on their sides...it is very difficult and the stress it places on their bones is incredible. The worst is that they are treated like caged animals-put on show for tourists but only get to keep some of the money and as the articles have said, can't leave the village for fear of being arrested. Yet Thailand promotes tourism to see them ( akin to human slavery) as they have no rights and are stateless.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Originally those rings around the neck were for Tiger attacks.

The tiger would sneak up and go for the jugular and get freaked out from biting at metal.

I rode to this Karen village from Somoeng. 18°46'50.77"N 98°38'49.32"E

It's great rough road mountain biking with very little traffic.

Not my photos but here are some images of that village.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/71328755?source=wapi&referrer=kh.google.com

"Originally those rings around the neck were for Tiger attacks.

The tiger would sneak up and go for the jugular and get freaked out from biting at metal"

Just an old wives tale,

well you can inform wikipedia of the oversight but it is in there as one of the originations but there are others as well.

"Girls first start to wear rings when they are around five years old.^[7] Over the years the coil is replaced by a longer one and more turns are added. The weight of the brass pushes the collar bone down and compresses the rib cage. The neck itself is not lengthened; the appearance of a stretched neck is created by the deformation of the clavicle.^[8] Many ideas regarding why the coils are worn have been suggested, often formed by visiting anthropologists, who have hypothesized that the rings protected women from becoming slaves by making them less attractive to other tribes. Contrastingly it has been theorised that the coils originate from the desire to look more attractive by exaggerating sexual dimorphism, as women have more slender necks than men. It has also been suggested that the coils give the women resemblance to adragon, an important figure in Kayan folklore.^[9] The coils might be meant to protect from tigerbites, perhaps literally, but probably symbolically.^[10]"

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayan_people_(Burma)}

I love it up there but really these are primitive folks.. Nice folks but traditional and basic.... Not exactly historians and librarians.

[schondie]

I used to own a business in Mae Hong Son and got to know many long necks well as they'd pop in to use our western toilet whenever they were in town. The truth about why they're in Thailand in these villages and not a refugee camp is that they signed contracts with local business people to be exhibits. The novelty wore off rather quickly.

UNHCR couldn't register them as refugees as the Thai government knew about their business agreement. Both orchidlady and elektrified are correct in their respective statements. Apart from being "invited" to appear for festivals in town, the chance of arrest [bribe to be paid] if they come to town is always present.

On a more positive note, they really have a good time after all the tourists have left. It seemed like they had more celebrations and festivals than Thailand and they are totally different to what the tourists see. I don't blame them but they have bilked many a bleeding heart out of funds for much needed supplies.

My favourite one was the cold weather need for blankets. A tourist would ask what they needed and the answer was always "blankets for the cold weather". They would end up at a shop in town that could supply a large quantity of blankets for 150 baht a piece. The shop would arrange the transport and the tourist would get his photos to show how thankful the villagers were. A little time later the shop would buy all the blankets back for 80 baht a piece and everyone was happy. The same blankets must have been recycled hundreds of times.

[elektrified]

Apart from being "invited" to appear for festivals in town, the chance of arrest [bribe to be paid] if they come to town is always present.

I often see a couple of them in the mornings at the flower market at Kad Luang buying flowers. They are buying lots of flowers and always have escorts with them and a van. One I'm sure has been photographed a thousand times as her face is so familiar. They ALWAYS have scarves around their necks to hide the rings. I always wondered why and now I know why.

[hellodolly]

I learned a lot about them from this article that was written last year

http://www.chiangmainews.com/ecmn/viewfa.php?id=3893

It does make you think about their plight. My next door neighbours are of karen hilltribe descent and the brother works on the border, tells me every day many many people still fleeing, homeless, no posessions over into Thailand. The situation is dire but we and the toursits are oblivious to it all.

A great article. When one stops to think about there plight it is a very sad situation.

I found the article very enlightening. I have been in the tourist villages and they were an eye opener for me. the poverty is big time there. The one village I was in I got to talking to one of the fellows and he told me that all the money they made from sales was put into a common pot to help with emergency situations such as medical.

I was in one of the refuge camps in Mai Sot and the poverty there was equally bad. I don't really believe that a Karen would be very happy there with the rings on.The camp in Mai Sot is the largest refuge camp the population fluctuates daily by the easy crossing of the border in the Jungle. They figure around 50,000 people there.

I wonder if the Long neck villages get the benefit of the many NGOs in the refuge camps. I was conducting a workshop there for one of the NGOs and they assigned a guide for a very small part of the camp. He talked of studying more and some day going to the United States. There were NGOs that were there to help with the education. Some thing I don't believe the Long neck villages receive.

There was one paragraph in the article that disturbed me.

Today, international media has taken a generally negative stance on long neck tourist villages (and it should be noted that all known long neck villages in Thailand are constructed for tourism). The Tourism Authority of Thailand has officially stopped promoting them (Chiang Mai's director of TAT having nothing more to say on the subject) and many human rights groups and conscientious tour companies suggest boycotting them altogether. However, villages have continued to open up throughout Northern Thailand and even as far south as Pattaya.

What is their plan let the people starve. I have no use for people that run around and say they should stop doing some thing and provide no answer as to what the people should do for food. Bunch of ignorant useless dorks using the poor living conditions of the villagers or what ever group they are supposedly campaigning for to get donations that go into paying their salary and not into the group of people they are supposedly trying to help.

As I said I have been in the camp in Mai Sot and with out even trying saw two of the NGO's working in the camp.

[fasteddie]

Originally those rings around the neck were for Tiger attacks.

The tiger would sneak up and go for the jugular and get freaked out from biting at metal.

I rode to this Karen village from Somoeng. 18°46'50.77"N 98°38'49.32"E

It's great rough road mountain biking with very little traffic.

Not my photos but here are some images of that village.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/71328755?source=wapi&referrer=kh.google.com

"Originally those rings around the neck were for Tiger attacks.

The tiger would sneak up and go for the jugular and get freaked out from biting at metal"

Just an old wives tale,

well you can inform wikipedia of the oversight but it is in there as one of the originations but there are others as well.

"Girls first start to wear rings when they are around five years old.^[7] Over the years the coil is replaced by a longer one and more turns are added. The weight of the brass pushes the collar bone down and compresses the rib cage. The neck itself is not lengthened; the appearance of a stretched neck is created by the deformation of the clavicle.^[8] Many ideas regarding why the coils are worn have been suggested, often formed by visiting anthropologists, who have hypothesized that the rings protected women from becoming slaves by making them less attractive to other tribes. Contrastingly it has been theorised that the coils originate from the desire to look more attractive by exaggerating sexual dimorphism, as women have more slender necks than men. It has also been suggested that the coils give the women resemblance to adragon, an important figure in Kayan folklore.^[9] The coils might be meant to protect from tigerbites, perhaps literally, but probably symbolically.^[10]"

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayan_people_(Burma)}

I love it up there but really these are primitive folks.. Nice folks but traditional and basic.... Not exactly historians and librarians.

"well you can inform wikipedia of the oversight"

Not an oversight, but mere speculation, the word "might" is the clue.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Originally those rings around the neck were for Tiger attacks.

The tiger would sneak up and go for the jugular and get freaked out from biting at metal.

I rode to this Karen village from Somoeng. 18°46'50.77"N 98°38'49.32"E

It's great rough road mountain biking with very little traffic.

Not my photos but here are some images of that village.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/71328755?source=wapi&referrer=kh.google.com

"Originally those rings around the neck were for Tiger attacks.

The tiger would sneak up and go for the jugular and get freaked out from biting at metal"

Just an old wives tale,

well you can inform wikipedia of the oversight but it is in there as one of the originations but there are others as well.

"Girls first start to wear rings when they are around five years old.^[7] Over the years the coil is replaced by a longer one and more turns are added. The weight of the brass pushes the collar bone down and compresses the rib cage. The neck itself is not lengthened; the appearance of a stretched neck is created by the deformation of the clavicle.^[8] Many ideas regarding why the coils are worn have been suggested, often formed by visiting anthropologists, who have hypothesized that the rings protected women from becoming slaves by making them less attractive to other tribes. Contrastingly it has been theorised that the coils originate from the desire to look more attractive by exaggerating sexual dimorphism, as women have more slender necks than men. It has also been suggested that the coils give the women resemblance to adragon, an important figure in Kayan folklore.^[9] The coils might be meant to protect from tigerbites, perhaps literally, but probably symbolically.^[10]"

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayan_people_(Burma)}

I love it up there but really these are primitive folks.. Nice folks but traditional and basic.... Not exactly historians and librarians.

"well you can inform wikipedia of the oversight"

Not an oversight, but mere speculation, the word "might" is the clue.

If you read thru there I don't think the Karen/Kayan know the origin of the rings either as they likely didn't write anything down.

Is there a Karen Museum somewhere with ancient artwork or scribes?

Every time I go to a hill tribe I seem to get different explanations and stories.

If anyone has sources then please share them. Fascinating questions.

[Johpa]

Not my photos but here are some images of that village.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/71328755?source=wapi&referrer=kh.google.com

Those are photos of the tourist village Tong Luang run in conjunction with the Mae Sa elephant camp. There are no indigenous Kayan villages in Thailand as all are refugees from Burma. The Kayan are a Karen group more closely related to the Karenni (the majority of Karenni refugees in Thailand are forced to live in refugee camps outside Mae Homg Son and Khun Yuam). but a smaller group whose language is not mutually intelligible between the major Karen groups found in Thailand: the S'kaw and Pwo. Most of the Kayan folks living in Tong Luang speak good Thai and you can easily converse with them. They much prefer their life in these tourist camps then their previous lives in Burma. And if you know what to look for, you can often find the women shopping in the local markets in Mae Rim with their neck rings covered by scarves.