Somtamnication Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Ah! The future looks bright for Thailand if these students return. But for how long will their "honesty" last, once they return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeThePoster Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) I'm sure they'd jump at the chance to dine with the 2 Shin cuties currently in London. Just imagine the photos they could upload to Facebook. Edited November 25, 2013 by JoeThePoster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emptyset Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) too much noise for nothing the children of Abhisit, Suthep, Sondhi,... actually signed a letter. they should be deported from England Bender may be some facts like the names of the offspring's at Oxford... I am sure if Abhisit was concerned he could easily arrange for the the Oxford Students Union to give Phongthep a welcome to Oxford that he would like to forget. I doubt it.The Oxford Students Union is a private society to which only a small minority of students belong.Secondly Abhisit has zero influence over students,the vast majority will have never heard of him.Thirdly and most importantly student opinion would not be on the side of ultra royalists, coup lovers and reactionaries and would be on the side of the red shirts.This was the university that refused to offer Mrs Thatcher an honorary degree. Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand Recall in 2009, Abhisit spoke at Oxford and there was a small protest against his visit by some red shirts, most of whom weren't allowed into the debate (due to oversubscription rather than for political reasons I believe). On re-reading a write up of the talk on New Mandala, it seems the Thai students at Oxford and other attendees put some tough questions to him, but this one in particular made me laugh: "A young Thai female in a yellow shirt then asked how Abhisit would convince the rural people that democracy is the best way forward". Anyway, this is all by the by, but her attitudes were as clear as her shirt colour there, and I'd be a little surprised if it were any different with the students that signed this letter. I wouldn't praise them for being educated or for any sort of critical thought until I'd heard their reasoning for taking such a position. As far as I know, they're from wealthy conservative families and are simply following the default family line on Thaksin and the rest of it. On the other hand, I both know and know of several Thai students educated at elite universities in the UK, including people with PhDs from Cambridge, LSE and the like, who have taken a critical line towards both political movements. Of course, on this board, that would probably classify them as red, because anyone who perhaps doesn't like Thaksin, but doesn't necessarily also want to see this government overthrown is seen as a raving red apologist. Many of them seem to have come to this position through their own independent reasoning, because, as above, amongst people of their class background the default line is definitely more of a yellow one. But anyway, point is, I don't see this political conflict as a clear cut issue, so I'm less likely to think someone is worthy of praise if they think it is. That applies as much if they're a passionate Thaksin fan* and support everything the government does as much as it does to the opposite of that. *Though I've yet to meet any UK educated Thai who has an uneqivocally high opinion of Thaksin. Edited November 25, 2013 by Emptyset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 AFAICT -- No students signed the letter, so it does not represent anything other than the writer's own views. You can vouch for that statement, can you? from the OP Quote...... letter to Phongthep on Sunday which was signed by Duangnapa Kovanich and Thaya Uthayaphas on behalf of the Thai students who opposed the Amnesty Bill...... One wonders who these 2 worthies are..... You said "no students signed the letter".Seems that the two who signed it, Duangnapa Kovanich and Thaya Uthayaphas, are indeed students. So 2 Thai students in some educational facility in Oxford object to the visit and sent a letter of protest... or am I missing something here ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyphodb Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 That's because they have an education. Those PTP goons need to start understanding, they only have control over the uneducated who deem that a 500 baht note as more important to them than a good government, a secure nation, stable economy and a better future. The problem is, that there isn't any Thai politicians that they could vote for who is going to give them any of the above... The Democrats will rip them off just the same but be slightly less obvious about it. The Democrats are only going to be better from your perspective because you, as a Farang are comparatively rich, to the poor all Thai Governments do nothing for them, so until there is a viable alternative they might just as well take the money. And before you mention the Rice scam that only benefits the bigger, richer Farmers & the Rice Mills, it does nothing for the smaller farmers who are the vast majority of the Isaan countryside where I live... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 AFAICT -- No students signed the letter, so it does not represent anything other than the writer's own views. You can vouch for that statement, can you? from the OP Quote...... letter to Phongthep on Sunday which was signed by Duangnapa Kovanich and Thaya Uthayaphas on behalf of the Thai students who opposed the Amnesty Bill...... One wonders who these 2 worthies are..... You said "no students signed the letter".Seems that the two who signed it, Duangnapa Kovanich and Thaya Uthayaphas, are indeed students. So 2 Thai students in some educational facility in Oxford object to the visit and sent a letter of protest... or am I missing something here ? Certainly seems that way. Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 from the OP Quote...... letter to Phongthep on Sunday which was signed by Duangnapa Kovanich and Thaya Uthayaphas on behalf of the Thai students who opposed the Amnesty Bill...... One wonders who these 2 worthies are..... You said "no students signed the letter". Seems that the two who signed it, Duangnapa Kovanich and Thaya Uthayaphas, are indeed students. So 2 Thai students in some educational facility in Oxford object to the visit and sent a letter of protest... or am I missing something here ? Firstly you are missing giving acknowledgement to the fact that you were completely wrong when you said, "no students signed the letter". Secondly you are missing the common and generally accepted practice of a body, group or organisation, writing a letter on behalf of its members, without the need to have every single member of that body, group or organisation, come in to the office and sign it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 from the OP Quote...... letter to Phongthep on Sunday which was signed by Duangnapa Kovanich and Thaya Uthayaphas on behalf of the Thai students who opposed the Amnesty Bill...... One wonders who these 2 worthies are..... You said "no students signed the letter".Seems that the two who signed it, Duangnapa Kovanich and Thaya Uthayaphas, are indeed students. So 2 Thai students in some educational facility in Oxford object to the visit and sent a letter of protest... or am I missing something here ? Firstly you are missing giving acknowledgement to the fact that you were completely wrong when you said, "no students signed the letter".Secondly you are missing the common and generally accepted practice of a body, group or organisation, writing a letter on behalf of its members, without the need to have every single member of that body, group or organisation, come in to the office and sign it. Firstly -- the comment about who the signatories were was based on the report that 2 people had signed the letter -- not 2 "students" or 2 "students representatives" Secondly -- letters of protest are traditinally signed by as many people as possible for maximum impact. Unless the 2 signatories were actually elected representatives of some association of students and stated their "authority" to represent "x" number of students, they merely sent a letter from themselves stating their own opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 "foreign student have to pay double" I'm afraid you're out-of-date, UK domestic-students recently saw a massive hike in their fees, so the premium paid by overseas-students is now only about 30%-40%. Many UK students are therefore being priced-out of advanced-education. We parents of teenage-kids watch such things closely ! _As i said i read it somewhere. _So where? _Well on thaivisa... some thai apologist were shouting , how horrible, how racist was UK to double charge the poor little rich thai kids with the tuition fee. So i am finally glad to hear that, the member "7by7" was once gain (on other apologist) as usual only talking rubbish! otherwise blablabla ps: didnt you get my sarcasm in my previous post, on this one also? by the way, double charging tuition fee for foreign student is not discrimination but that another subject! Fine, I was just trying to post the current facts, for what that's worth. No, I didn't get your sarcasm. And I didn't say that double-charging was discrimination, either, perhaps you're thinking of someone-else's post ? Time for coffee ! Have a good day ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Firstly -- the comment about who the signatories were was based on the report that 2 people had signed the letter -- not 2 "students" or 2 "students representatives"The report didn't say they weren't students, and the fact that the letter included quotes such as "we, the Thai students" should have given you a clue. So still no acknowledgment of being wrong? Secondly -- letters of protest are traditinally signed by as many people as possible for maximum impact. Unless the 2 signatories were actually elected representatives of some association of students and stated their "authority" to represent "x" number of students, they merely sent a letter from themselves stating their own opinions.This wasn't a letter of protest. It was an open letter from a group that was declining an invitation of lunch. You seem to be confusing letters and petitions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Firstly -- the comment about who the signatories were was based on the report that 2 people had signed the letter -- not 2 "students" or 2 "students representatives"The report didn't say they weren't students, and the fact that the letter included quotes such as "we, the Thai students" should have given you a clue.So still no acknowledgment of being wrong? Secondly -- letters of protest are traditinally signed by as many people as possible for maximum impact. Unless the 2 signatories were actually elected representatives of some association of students and stated their "authority" to represent "x" number of students, they merely sent a letter from themselves stating their own opinions.This wasn't a letter of protest. It was an open letter from a group that was declining an invitation of lunch. You seem to be confusing letters and petitions. haha!! The letter also did not say that they are not politicans kids, rice farmers or tuk-tuk drivers ! Please -- let's deal with the facts that were presented! If they are students, then they can certainly write ".. we, the thai students..." without mentioning that there's only 2 of them. As for the "letter" -- I see no mention of lunch, but I do see ... "Therefore, we, the Thai students at Oxford University who oppose the Amnesty Bill, do not wish to have any involvement with your coming visit to Oxford - an involvement which could be interpreted as lending support for the government and the bill," -- still not mentioning that there are only 2 students. Any "open letter" worth publicising will have a good number of signatures and associated credentials. It's not a question of being right or wrong - it's a question of accepting the facts as presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 It's not a question of being right or wrong - it's a question of accepting the facts as presented. Have you accepted the fact that they are students and that you were wrong when you said they weren't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I doubt it.The Oxford Students Union is a private society to which only a small minority of students belong.Secondly Abhisit has zero influence over students,the vast majority will have never heard of him.Thirdly and most importantly student opinion would not be on the side of ultra royalists, coup lovers and reactionaries and would be on the side of the red shirts.This was the university that refused to offer Mrs Thatcher an honorary degree.Student opinion would only be on the side of the red shirts were the students in the same deluded state as yourself about the true nature of the red shirt movement. Still no doubt dreaming of the day - any day now - when the red shirt movement morphs into something more than a heavy handed tool, run, controlled and funded by a billionaire megalomaniac... in the month in which not a single red shirt leader could bring themselves to vote against an amnesty that traded a whitewash for said billionaire with justice for the people they are supposed to represent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I said -- Posted Yesterday, 16:50 AFAICT -- No students signed the letter, so it does not represent anything other than the writer's own views. because there is no proof for the status of the signatories other than a weak assertion by themselves that ".. we are a group of students..." and "... we, the Thai students at Oxford University who oppose the Amnesty Bill,..." I see no references in any report that proves they are students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greer Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Thai students haven't done anything. Someone claiming to represent Thai students sent the letter, I'm betting they didn't even ask any Thai students. AFAICT -- No students signed the letter, so it does not represent anything other than the writer's own views. The letter was "signed by Duangnapa Kovanich and Thaya Uthayaphas on behalf of the Thai students". It doesn't specifically state that Khun Duangnapa and Khun Thaya are students, but they are obviously Thai, and if they sign "on behalf" of the students, then it means they have their permission to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Thai students haven't done anything. Someone claiming to represent Thai students sent the letter, I'm betting they didn't even ask any Thai students. AFAICT -- No students signed the letter, so it does not represent anything other than the writer's own views. The letter was "signed by Duangnapa Kovanich and Thaya Uthayaphas on behalf of the Thai students". It doesn't specifically state that Khun Duangnapa and Khun Thaya are students, but they are obviously Thai, and if they sign "on behalf" of the students, then it means they have their permission to do so. Do you really believe everything so easily. Signed, Rudolph, on behalf of Father Christmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I see no references in any report that proves they are students.You also saw no proof that they aren't students, but that didn't stop you concluding that they weren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagwan Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I wonder how many Thai students there are at Oxford University and how many went to Thai schools first. There are quite a lot of Thai students at Oxford. I met one a couple of years ago, studying accounting, and he said there quite some hundreds (although he didn't quote a figure). When we were walking around there, I could hear Thai being spoken quite a lot. Not sure how reliable your student friend was given that there is no way to study accounting at Oxford University, no course being on offer. Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand Oxford University does not offer an undergraduate degree in Accounting. However, students interested in accounting might like to consider taking a Mathematics course or other course at Oxford before training in accountancy later on. More misinformation from the Reds. A degree in anything from Oxford has a certain kudos, unlike Stoke on Trent Polytechnic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I said -- Posted Yesterday, 16:50 AFAICT -- No students signed the letter, so it does not represent anything other than the writer's own views. because there is no proof for the status of the signatories other than a weak assertion by themselves that ".. we are a group of students..." and "... we, the Thai students at Oxford University who oppose the Amnesty Bill,..." I see no references in any report that proves they are students. Nor anything that asserts they are not students, or that it does not represent other people's views ..... AFAICT your statement "so it does not represent anything other than the writer's own views." is as blinkered as possible as well. Your concept of the lack of proof (in your view) proving the negative is simply silly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagwan Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Good on them. Here, here! Good also to see that there are some young, politically aware Thai students willing to protest. Given they are at Oxford Uni. a bastion of privilege, they are obviously from very privileged backgrounds. I wonder what party they support in Thailand? Would you care to enumerate the privileges that accrue to an Oxford graduate? If you are bright enough, they'll accept you. You don't buy, or cheat, your way in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I said -- Posted Yesterday, 16:50 AFAICT -- No students signed the letter, so it does not represent anything other than the writer's own views. because there is no proof for the status of the signatories other than a weak assertion by themselves that ".. we are a group of students..." and "... we, the Thai students at Oxford University who oppose the Amnesty Bill,..." I see no references in any report that proves they are students. Nor anything that asserts they are not students, or that it does not represent other people's views ..... AFAICT your statement "so it does not represent anything other than the writer's own views." is as blinkered as possible as well. Your concept of the lack of proof (in your view) proving the negative is simply silly. Indeed this takes representation to new levels of silliness. The writers wrote the letter and signed it, so it represents their views. They assert that they are students and that they represent more than just the 2 of them, but they add no corroboration of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I see no references in any report that proves they are students.You also saw no proof that they aren't students, but that didn't stop you concluding that they weren't. Do you understand " AFAICT " ? It clearly implies that there isno conclusion, merely a raising of a question, which - in this case - has yet to be answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagwan Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 One thing is for sure, none of those Oxford attending Thai students will end up on Beach road, in Patong, Chaweng, Nana, Cowboy or any other such place. And how many of these students are the offspring of elite members of society that have stolen and lied their way to obscene wealth at the expense of others. Go to Oxford, become a token activist for a few years, return home, turn a blind eye and become part of the problem. I think that there is a certain amount of truth in this. The idealistic young vote with their hearts. The more mature and wiser vote with their brains. Not too dissimilar to choosing a Thai lady for a partner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I see no references in any report that proves they are students.You also saw no proof that they aren't students, but that didn't stop you concluding that they weren't. Do you understand " AFAICT " ? It clearly implies that there isno conclusion, merely a raising of a question, which - in this case - has yet to be answered. Considering that they give their full names, the conclusion of most people would be that they are who they say they are. It's only you who seems to have concluded the opposite. And yes, when you state AFAICT, that is making a conclusion, albeit with a caveat that you might be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Signed, Rudolph, on behalf of Father Christmas That explains the red nose then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I see no references in any report that proves they are students.You also saw no proof that they aren't students, but that didn't stop you concluding that they weren't. Do you understand " AFAICT " ? It clearly implies that there isno conclusion, merely a raising of a question, which - in this case - has yet to be answered. Considering that they give their full names, the conclusion of most people would be that they are who they say they are. It's only you who seems to have concluded the opposite. And yes, when you state AFAICT, that is making a conclusion, albeit with a caveat that you might be wrong. The people who accept everything at face-value are the ones who get duped Enough for now I'm sure you have better things to do on a Monday morning -- I know I have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myan Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Let me get this straight. These two students aren't actually students from oxford University You didn't get it straight from the very beginning. The two students ARE actually students from Oxford University. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Let me get this straight. These two students aren't actually students from oxford University You didn't get it straight from the very beginning. The two students ARE actually students from Oxford University. How do YOU know that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myan Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) Thai students haven't done anything. Someone claiming to represent Thai students sent the letter, I'm betting they didn't even ask any Thai students. AFAICT -- No students signed the letter, so it does not represent anything other than the writer's own views. The letter was "signed by Duangnapa Kovanich and Thaya Uthayaphas on behalf of the Thai students". It doesn't specifically state that Khun Duangnapa and Khun Thaya are students, but they are obviously Thai, and if they sign "on behalf" of the students, then it means they have their permission to do so. 10 seconds of googling shows them to be students, but some would rather drag the issue out for a half dozen or more posts over the pettiest of details, probably in an effort to detract from a situation whereby a Cabinet Minister was roundly denounced by his fellow countrymen in a public refute. . Edited November 25, 2013 by myan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickymaster Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Thai students at Oxford - a real barometer of Thai public opinion. Not. irrelevant to the issue whether or not they are a real barometer of Thai public opinion. They were invited and they rejected the invitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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