Thai opposition protesters storm foreign ministry

[Butcherbird]

This mob really need a name change, maybe something like 'The people's alliance for democracy unless we don't like the policies, then we'll stamp our feet and scream and scream and scream until we're sick '

That might be a bit long winded, maybe just 'the privileged few against people who don't know that we should be in charge all the time'

Still too long.....'Voting's for chumps, we should be in charge...just because we say so'

When an elected government is incompetent, and their policies are failing, damaging the economy, changing things to the detriment of society, vote for the opposition IN THE NEXT ELECTION.

That is the only way that the supporters of that government will be able to accept the fact that they had their turn and were not popular enough to secure a further term in office. It is the ONLY WAY to be able to claim the right to govern.

Unless, of course, the pretence of democracy is discarded altogether and the government is appointed by a minority.

In which case, insurrection and subversion should be expected.

If they actually won an election, they might have more credibility.

I would agree that the correct option is to vote out an incompetent government at the next election, however lets remember that this government was not democratically voted in, in the first place.....to have done that they would have participated in fair and free elections that did not involve vote rigging, financial inducements and various forms of intimidation. If they came to power at the ballot box with fair and free elections as citizens of western countries are familiar with, then the correct democratic response is to wait to vote them out again. But if you are of the belief that the same result will apply at the next election due to exactly the same processes as last time, then I can understand why a large sector of the Thai population feel strongly that it is time to show this government the door. Other parties who may have better policies that could have changed the course of politics in this country will not get a look in if PT continue to believe that it is acceptable practice to manipulate elections. Vote buying must cease altogether so that politics focuses on policies and not powerful people and families who treat various parts of this country as their own personal fiefdoms.

PROOF please, not just willy nilly propaganda statements. Maybe you believe all that crap, but not everybody does. And let me assure you, both sides did things to help their cause. So get real and stop believing that the Yellows are "squeeky clean"

Indeed, this is often claimed a the reason the PT government is in power. The people who vote for them are either uneducated (meaning that they would vote for the Dems if they weren't?) or were paid to vote PT, or both.

I've been in the north when voting has been going on, the Dems hardly even bother to turn up. They don't campaign, they don't do anything.

If anyone needed to buy votes in Chiang Rai, it would be the Dems. PT don't have to spend a single satang on election day to get votes up there. They actually do things for the people there, which is spending money, but not a few baht in their hands on polling day, they spend it on schools, roads, hospitals (all of which are free at the point of use). These are things that have real value to people, and have improved under this government.

The whole 'red voters are stupid country people' is one of the nastier inaccuracies that some people in Bangkok and the south like to pick up and spread around without actually finding out what things are really like in the PT heartlands. People up there aren't living in shanty towns in the mountains dressed in rags waiting for handouts in exchange for their thumbprints on pieces of paper they can't read.

I am sure your reference to the Democrats and any other party not turning up in certain northern provinces to compete for votes against PT is accurate but this is no more than an obvious tactical move. You see these same scenarios in western countries where parties decide for obvious reasons to concentrate on constituencies that they feel they can win rather than ones where they have no chance.

I have made no reference to the stereotype of voter you refer to....I am well aware of the make-up of the population of the north and northeast...I have lived on and off here for the majority of the last 30 years and my wife is from Isaan.

It is my experience of my time in this country that politics is just a business....politicians only get into it to make money. This is what I am told by Thai's of all classes, from Bangkok and the provinces. The idea of being a politician for the sole purpose of improving the lives of fellow Thai's appears to be a minor priority. The concept and understanding of the conflict of interest pertaining to a politicians role in government and his/or his families business interests also appears to be not particularly important. These are important points in the role of being a politician but it is seemingly abused here either out of ignorance or deliberate willfulness.

I have not discussed the rights or wrongs of other parties ( of which there are many ), my point is that this government has had its time and has been reduced to a non-functioning entity. It is time elections were held where money and favours distributed by various people stopped. If I recall rightly the EC have upheld more complaints against politicians representing the various Thaksin parties, than any other political party.

I am happy to hear that the local population where you live appear to have their local infrastructure improved but then that should really be expected when your local politician is voted in. And I expect that is repeated in areas all over Thailand. My point is that if anyone got to be a politician in this country via methods involving forms of manipulation rather than one-man-one-vote free voting then its not a democracy and its time the worst offenders were sidelined for the benefit of everyone in this country. And in my opinion, any party or politician representing Thaksin and his interests are first in line for correction of their duties.

[briboy]

This mob really need a name change, maybe something like 'The people's alliance for democracy unless we don't like the policies, then we'll stamp our feet and scream and scream and scream until we're sick '

That might be a bit long winded, maybe just 'the privileged few against people who don't know that we should be in charge all the time'

Still too long.....'Voting's for chumps, we should be in charge...just because we say so'

When an elected government is incompetent, and their policies are failing, damaging the economy, changing things to the detriment of society, vote for the opposition IN THE NEXT ELECTION.

That is the only way that the supporters of that government will be able to accept the fact that they had their turn and were not popular enough to secure a further term in office. It is the ONLY WAY to be able to claim the right to govern.

Unless, of course, the pretence of democracy is discarded altogether and the government is appointed by a minority.

In which case, insurrection and subversion should be expected.

If they actually won an election, they might have more credibility.

I would agree that the correct option is to vote out an incompetent government at the next election, however lets remember that this government was not democratically voted in, in the first place.....to have done that they would have participated in fair and free elections that did not involve vote rigging, financial inducements and various forms of intimidation. If they came to power at the ballot box with fair and free elections as citizens of western countries are familiar with, then the correct democratic response is to wait to vote them out again. But if you are of the belief that the same result will apply at the next election due to exactly the same processes as last time, then I can understand why a large sector of the Thai population feel strongly that it is time to show this government the door. Other parties who may have better policies that could have changed the course of politics in this country will not get a look in if PT continue to believe that it is acceptable practice to manipulate elections. Vote buying must cease altogether so that politics focuses on policies and not powerful people and families who treat various parts of this country as their own personal fiefdoms.

PROOF please, not just willy nilly propaganda statements. Maybe you believe all that crap, but not everybody does. And let me assure you, both sides did things to help their cause. So get real and stop believing that the Yellows are "squeeky clean"

Enlighten me what have the Yellow shirts got to do with this. There day has come and gone. Today they are like a VFW group reminiscing about the good old days while they sit in chairs or on bar stools.

They saw a chance to get there name in the paper again based on the honest desire of the grass roots people of Thailand and decided to take it.

This is a demonstration supported by people from all different walks of life and political belief. They have even had red shirts on the stage supporting them. Put your glasses on they have no perticular color shirt to wear. Just an honest from their heart desire for a government to work for Thailand. Not a government bent on filling their own pockets and white washing their own criminals.

filling/lining their own pockets is all a lot of people have known long before they get to TH so it would be expected that they will back the reds

Edited November 26, 2013 by briboy

[smileydude]

I really don't want to see the gathering of people brave enough to protest and speak out against corruption and tyranny turned into strategic pawns that might give the government the excuse to use force.

I understand everyone is fed up with the blatant disregard and contempt for law that the government has show but we must find means that are legal and within our constitutional rights to wear them down, not this.

Action with anger will not change the world. Action with vision will.

[Bagwan]

What on earth are these people trying to do to their own country.Have some common sense and call it of before you destroy it.

Good idea. Go home and let Thaksin and his cohorts run it into the ground. Doh!

[freebyrd]

How is occupying buildings and there adjacent grounds violent. Now if they destroy property or harm people that is violence.

Not violent, but tresspassing springs to mind.

[NCFC]

This is turning out to be a rerun of the 2006-2008 yellow shirt game-play. Occupy govt. buildings to make the country ungovernable which then gives the army/constitutional court an opportunity to step in. Just waiting for the bomb to be thrown into the crowd and we'll all be on here debating who was responsible. Deja vue.

[khunken]

Just as a relevant slightly thread drifted question as I would like to know about safety for travel in Bangkok tomorrow (Wednesday)

I need to get from Victory Monument where the bus drops me (coming up from Rayong province) via the BTS to Saphan Taksin station in the Silom area and will be around lunchtime and returning by the same route to Rayong in the late afternoon. So I have to change trains at Siam BTS station of course.

I want to visit a shop close by to Saphan Taksin BTS station. Will that be a safe and clear area and travel route that is away from the protest sites? ? Answers will be very much appreciated as my geography of Bangkok is okay but still quite limited compared to you guys who live in the BKK area of course.

Getting from Victory Monument BTS to Saphan Taksin should be no problem. The problem could be with the bus running into a protest group - there are quite a few & not pre-announced - depending on the route it takes into the city.

If you can, I'd suggest getting off the bus at the first BTS station it passes. I thought that busses from the East finished at Ekamai bus station where there is a BTS station. Good luck

PS are you sure that your 'bus' isn't a van?

Edited November 26, 2013 by khunken

[khunken]

This is turning out to be a rerun of the 2006-2008 yellow shirt game-play. Occupy govt. buildings to make the country ungovernable which then gives the army/constitutional court an opportunity to step in. Just waiting for the bomb to be thrown into the crowd and we'll all be on here debating who was responsible. Deja vue.

It has some parallels but is not the same. It is beyond PAD with a lot of new protestors angry about the Thaksin amnesty as well as the PTP refusing to accept a legal verdict from the CC.

PTP can stop the whole thing by the government just resigning and calling new elections but Thaksin has ordered them not to. He has even ordered YL not to resign - some 'democratic' party.

The CC have no further reason to step in but the army might if violence breaks out.

[falang07]

Citizens of this country are really free since they can enforce their rights in here, unlike in Europe where if you would storm a government building, all you would get would be a jail term for the rest of your life. This is what I call freedom. The government can not do what they want, they must listen to the people who they represent. I wish we had this freedom in Europe where you can not pee without first checking if you do not break some rules.

[MaxYakov]

What on earth are these people trying to do to their own country.Have some common sense and call it of before you destroy it.

At least they're not burning it down.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's because they don't know how to use a box of matches, to many moving parts, only their hi-so gold and diamond encrusted lighters,

Bet your Aussie A$$ on that, mate?

Edited November 26, 2013 by MaxYakov

[metisdead]

Please remember, there is to be No Discussion Of The Monarchy In Political Context, posts have been removed.

[whybother]

I am sure your reference to the Democrats and any other party not turning up in certain northern provinces to compete for votes against PT is accurate but this is no more than an obvious tactical move. You see these same scenarios in western countries where parties decide for obvious reasons to concentrate on constituencies that they feel they can win rather than ones where they have no chance.

I have made no reference to the stereotype of voter you refer to....I am well aware of the make-up of the population of the north and northeast...I have lived on and off here for the majority of the last 30 years and my wife is from Isaan.

It is my experience of my time in this country that politics is just a business....politicians only get into it to make money. This is what I am told by Thai's of all classes, from Bangkok and the provinces. The idea of being a politician for the sole purpose of improving the lives of fellow Thai's appears to be a minor priority. The concept and understanding of the conflict of interest pertaining to a politicians role in government and his/or his families business interests also appears to be not particularly important. These are important points in the role of being a politician but it is seemingly abused here either out of ignorance or deliberate willfulness.

I have not discussed the rights or wrongs of other parties ( of which there are many ), my point is that this government has had its time and has been reduced to a non-functioning entity. It is time elections were held where money and favours distributed by various people stopped. If I recall rightly the EC have upheld more complaints against politicians representing the various Thaksin parties, than any other political party.

I am happy to hear that the local population where you live appear to have their local infrastructure improved but then that should really be expected when your local politician is voted in. And I expect that is repeated in areas all over Thailand. My point is that if anyone got to be a politician in this country via methods involving forms of manipulation rather than one-man-one-vote free voting then its not a democracy and its time the worst offenders were sidelined for the benefit of everyone in this country. And in my opinion, any party or politician representing Thaksin and his interests are first in line for correction of their duties.

One difference here compared to other countries, is the Party List voting. So even if a party will lose the constituency vote, they will get some extra votes for the party list. By not being able to campaign in certain areas, the party will lose the chance to get some party list votes in that area.

[MaxYakov]

This mob really need a name change, maybe something like 'The people's alliance for democracy unless we don't like the policies, then we'll stamp our feet and scream and scream and scream until we're sick '

That might be a bit long winded, maybe just 'the privileged few against people who don't know that we should be in charge all the time'

Still too long.....'Voting's for chumps, we should be in charge...just because we say so'

When an elected government is incompetent, and their policies are failing, damaging the economy, changing things to the detriment of society, vote for the opposition IN THE NEXT ELECTION.

That is the only way that the supporters of that government will be able to accept the fact that they had their turn and were not popular enough to secure a further term in office. It is the ONLY WAY to be able to claim the right to govern.

Unless, of course, the pretence of democracy is discarded altogether and the government is appointed by a minority.

In which case, insurrection and subversion should be expected.

If they actually won an election, they might have more credibility.

I would agree that the correct option is to vote out an incompetent government at the next election, however lets remember that this government was not democratically voted in, in the first place.....to have done that they would have participated in fair and free elections that did not involve vote rigging, financial inducements and various forms of intimidation. If they came to power at the ballot box with fair and free elections as citizens of western countries are familiar with, then the correct democratic response is to wait to vote them out again. But if you are of the belief that the same result will apply at the next election due to exactly the same processes as last time, then I can understand why a large sector of the Thai population feel strongly that it is time to show this government the door. Other parties who may have better policies that could have changed the course of politics in this country will not get a look in if PT continue to believe that it is acceptable practice to manipulate elections. Vote buying must cease altogether so that politics focuses on policies and not powerful people and families who treat various parts of this country as their own personal fiefdoms.

PROOF please, not just willy nilly propaganda statements. Maybe you believe all that crap, but not everybody does. And let me assure you, both sides did things to help their cause. So get real and stop believing that the Yellows are "squeeky clean"

Enlighten me what have the Yellow shirts got to do with this. There day has come and gone. Today they are like a VFW group reminiscing about the good old days while they sit in chairs or on bar stools.

They saw a chance to get there name in the paper again based on the honest desire of the grass roots people of Thailand and decided to take it.

This is a demonstration supported by people from all different walks of life and political belief. They have even had red shirts on the stage supporting them. Put your glasses on they have no perticular color shirt to wear. Just an honest from their heart desire for a government to work for Thailand. Not a government bent on filling their own pockets and white washing their own criminals.

I believe these Yellow shirts are not heading for the bar stools, at least let's hope not. Rama IV, yesterday, probably headed for [the] protests (main intersection near the big temple, waiting to cross Rama IV).

FWIW, a Thai man who saw the image told me the headband translated to "Return Thailand". Low-res images [JPEGs] because they're Mac screen-grabs, sorry.

Edited November 26, 2013 by MaxYakov

[khunken]

I believe these Yellow shirts are not heading for the bar stools, at least let's hope not. Rama IV, yesterday, probably headed for [the] protests (main intersection near the big temple, waiting to cross Rama IV).

FWIW, a Thai man who saw the image told me the headband translated to "Return Thailand". Low-res images [JPEGs] because they're Mac screen-grabs, sorry.

MB_YS_RamaIV_112513a.jpeg

MB_YS_RamaIV_112513b.jpeg

Yep these 3 prove conclusively that the PAD is running the protests.

Let us know when you find the other 29,997 or so.

[MaxYakov]

I believe these Yellow shirts are not heading for the bar stools, at least let's hope not. Rama IV, yesterday, probably headed for [the] protests (main intersection near the big temple, waiting to cross Rama IV).

FWIW, a Thai man who saw the image told me the headband translated to "Return Thailand". Low-res images [JPEGs] because they're Mac screen-grabs, sorry.

MB_YS_RamaIV_112513a.jpeg

MB_YS_RamaIV_112513b.jpeg

Yep these 3 prove conclusively that the PAD is running the protests.

Let us know when you find the other 29,997 or so.

I'll take your word for it (maybe), but the only thing it proves to me is that some Thai individuals don't use/like helmets, overload motorbikes, sometimes carry overly-large flags and have been accessorizing with yellow these days. I don't think I'll be going out looking for the alleged "other 29,997 or so" anytime soon.

Edited November 26, 2013 by MaxYakov

[mikemac]

WOW if that was red shirts i would guess there would be 15 dead and 45 wounded from military fire. Amazing how they make it look so obvious.

"If that was redshirts" half the city would be blockaded, the other half would be on fire, the army would be under attack with deadly weapons and the redshirts would deserve to be wiped out like the scum they are.

[Richard Hall]

WOW if that was red shirts i would guess there would be 15 dead and 45 wounded from military fire. Amazing how they make it look so obvious.

"If that was redshirts" half the city would be blockaded, the other half would be on fire, the army would be under attack with deadly weapons and the redshirts would deserve to be wiped out like the scum they are.

Hm, ran into a "redshirt" yesterday in our area in Bangkholaem. Simple worker from Isaan and not at the demonstrations because he had to work for a living. He had no weapons and/or matches with him. We chatted for a while had a laugh together and that was it. Well, typical situation for the Thais that I know and those are quite a lot and as per my experience this appears to hold also true for the majority independant from the colour of their shirts.

Now I ask myself, do I know the wrong people.

[icare999]

WOW if that was red shirts i would guess there would be 15 dead and 45 wounded from military fire. Amazing how they make it look so obvious.

"If that was redshirts" half the city would be blockaded, the other half would be on fire, the army would be under attack with deadly weapons and the redshirts would deserve to be wiped out like the scum they are.

Hm, ran into a "redshirt" yesterday in our area in Bangkholaem. Simple worker from Isaan and not at the demonstrations because he had to work for a living. He had no weapons and/or matches with him. We chatted for a while had a laugh together and that was it. Well, typical situation for the Thais that I know and those are quite a lot and as per my experience this appears to hold also true for the majority independant from the colour of their shirts.

Now I ask myself, do I know the wrong people.

the exception proves the rule. Here in red shirt land no one dares speak at all in case they are beaten up or worse. Actually they speak up privately and when in private I ask why then did you vote for this lot the answer is does it matter I might as well get 500 baht. So I then ask well take 500 baht but you can vote how you like. They are convinced (wrongly) that their is a way who they voted for can be found out. I have tried in vain to explain that I've been to voting place and checked and their is no number or way to trace how someone voted. Im told I don't understand and whatever I say or try and show and prove they are 100% convinced the vote is not secret.

While Thailand lives in a feudal system as it does now the masses will follow what head of village says at least here in countryside. One of Taksins cleverer ideas was to double the hand out to villages meant for village projects but totally controlled by the head of the village and also to promise more goodies such as top mobile phones and other perks. So of course in this totally corrupt country head of village takes his cut and tells everyone Taksin is good man. Im sure is also happens on other side its just Taksin is much better at it.

However their is some hope since I notice the new younger generation are not so willing to simply bow down. Perhaps the opening up of Thailand and TV showing them that in other countries the young do not just accept what someone higher or older tell them. Of course thetis always a price and it will result in many of bad things in west such as unruly kids at school, graffiti and other anti social behaviour.

[DrDweeb]

What on earth are these people trying to do to their own country.Have some common sense and call it of before you destroy it.

At least they're not burning it down.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

What on earth has that got to do with my post.

Have you considered what Thaksin and PTP have done to their own country?

Millions of tons of unsaleable rice in storage costing millions of baht every day just to sit there and now unable to pay the farmers that grew it.

A plan to put every Thai in debt for generations with ill conceived ideas for High Speed Trains, a massive water control budget with no direction, massive corruption at all levels and you ask that question?.

My gf family have received exactly zero THB for their rice. It was harvested several weeks ago and no money in sight.

I wonder how long Thaksin & PTP support can withstand them stiffing the poor like this?

The farmers are completely ignorant of the financial mchinations of what the PTP and their cronies are setting them up for in the future, but if the farmers get hungy enough, they might be pushed into something very ugly and the Reds could easily find themselves consumed by their own.

Slightly wishful thinking, but not completely out of the question and would be poetic justice.

[Ricardo]

It seems to me that it is time for a little "men in black" action to put down this rabble.

While I suspect this has been considered, from the 'bunker' in the sand-pit, it would surely have the undesired-effect of forcing the military to take action ?

And I'd also ask you to remember, that some posters may have friends/family, amongst the peaceful anti-government protesters. They might disagree with your POV ?

[hellodolly]

I would agree that the correct option is to vote out an incompetent government at the next election, however lets remember that this government was not democratically voted in, in the first place.....to have done that they would have participated in fair and free elections that did not involve vote rigging, financial inducements and various forms of intimidation. If they came to power at the ballot box with fair and free elections as citizens of western countries are familiar with, then the correct democratic response is to wait to vote them out again. But if you are of the belief that the same result will apply at the next election due to exactly the same processes as last time, then I can understand why a large sector of the Thai population feel strongly that it is time to show this government the door. Other parties who may have better policies that could have changed the course of politics in this country will not get a look in if PT continue to believe that it is acceptable practice to manipulate elections. Vote buying must cease altogether so that politics focuses on policies and not powerful people and families who treat various parts of this country as their own personal fiefdoms.

PROOF please, not just willy nilly propaganda statements. Maybe you believe all that crap, but not everybody does. And let me assure you, both sides did things to help their cause. So get real and stop believing that the Yellows are "squeeky clean"

Enlighten me what have the Yellow shirts got to do with this. There day has come and gone. Today they are like a VFW group reminiscing about the good old days while they sit in chairs or on bar stools.

They saw a chance to get there name in the paper again based on the honest desire of the grass roots people of Thailand and decided to take it.

This is a demonstration supported by people from all different walks of life and political belief. They have even had red shirts on the stage supporting them. Put your glasses on they have no perticular color shirt to wear. Just an honest from their heart desire for a government to work for Thailand. Not a government bent on filling their own pockets and white washing their own criminals.

I believe these Yellow shirts are not heading for the bar stools, at least let's hope not. Rama IV, yesterday, probably headed for [the] protests (main intersection near the big temple, waiting to cross Rama IV).

FWIW, a Thai man who saw the image told me the headband translated to "Return Thailand". Low-res images [JPEGs] because they're Mac screen-grabs, sorry.

MB_YS_RamaIV_112513a.jpeg

MB_YS_RamaIV_112513b.jpeg

Um I didn't see any yellow shirts there. Best get your eyes checked.

No offence intended. Just trying to help you.

[hellodolly]

WOW if that was red shirts i would guess there would be 15 dead and 45 wounded from military fire. Amazing how they make it look so obvious.

"If that was redshirts" half the city would be blockaded, the other half would be on fire, the army would be under attack with deadly weapons and the redshirts would deserve to be wiped out like the scum they are.

Hm, ran into a "redshirt" yesterday in our area in Bangkholaem. Simple worker from Isaan and not at the demonstrations because he had to work for a living. He had no weapons and/or matches with him. We chatted for a while had a laugh together and that was it. Well, typical situation for the Thais that I know and those are quite a lot and as per my experience this appears to hold also true for the majority independant from the colour of their shirts.

Now I ask myself, do I know the wrong people.

No you just know people who are not interested in what is happening. Your red shirt will take the money vote red shirt and that will be it. You forget these 180,000 people with no color to there shirts are spending there own money to try to bring a decent government to Thailand. They care about Thailand they do not have a pay master. 66,000,000 Thais 230.000 between the two parties demonstrating.

Easy to meet some one who is not there and has no intention of going there. the thing to do is look at the reasons for the ones who are going there there.

Then make your own decision.

[lostinsurin]

Up until the end of the second world war Thailands goverment protected the rice farmer against the rice merchant.

Since this has stopped the rice farmer has been abused, with the merchant taking all the profit.

Thaksin could see an oppening to get votes, he started the rice pledging scheme to buy votes and at the same time help farmers.

The rice merchants are doing all they can to stop this, this includes the present protests against the goverment.

Edited November 26, 2013 by lostinsurin

[Thai at Heart]

Up until the end of the second world war Thailands goverment protected the rice farmer against the rice merchant.

Since this has stopped the rice farmer has been abused, with the merchant taking all the profit.

Thaksin could see an oppening to get votes, he started the rice pledging scheme to buy votes and at the same time help farmers.

The rice merchants are doing all they can to stop this, this includes the present protests against the goverment.

Its not just the rice guys. There was the Singha MP front and centre the other day, and Bangkok Bank is always well represented. It is the old moneyed leeches. Problem is, Thaksin didn't come up with anything more than a sop to throw money down the tube and really make things better. If he had had half a mind to really build a system to put money in the farmers hand instead of building it to smash to exporters, he would by now be home free.

[lostinsurin]

Up until the end of the second world war Thailands goverment protected the rice farmer against the rice merchant.

Since this has stopped the rice farmer has been abused, with the merchant taking all the profit.

Thaksin could see an oppening to get votes, he started the rice pledging scheme to buy votes and at the same time help farmers.

The rice merchants are doing all they can to stop this, this includes the present protests against the goverment.

Its not just the rice guys. There was the Singha MP front and centre the other day, and Bangkok Bank is always well represented. It is the old moneyed leeches. Problem is, Thaksin didn't come up with anything more than a sop to throw money down the tube and really make things better. If he had had half a mind to really build a system to put money in the farmers hand instead of building it to smash to exporters, he would by now be home free.

I agree he is not too bright and is only using the farmers to his own ends, but the opposition is not an option for the farmer. At least he gives them something.

[rayw]

Just as a relevant slightly thread drifted question as I would like to know about safety for travel in Bangkok tomorrow (Wednesday)

I need to get from Victory Monument where the bus drops me (coming up from Rayong province) via the BTS to Saphan Taksin station in the Silom area and will be around lunchtime and returning by the same route to Rayong in the late afternoon. So I have to change trains at Siam BTS station of course.

I want to visit a shop close by to Saphan Taksin BTS station. Will that be a safe and clear area and travel route that is away from the protest sites? ? Answers will be very much appreciated as my geography of Bangkok is okay but still quite limited compared to you guys who live in the BKK area of course.

Getting from Victory Monument BTS to Saphan Taksin should be no problem. The problem could be with the bus running into a protest group - there are quite a few & not pre-announced - depending on the route it takes into the city.

If you can, I'd suggest getting off the bus at the first BTS station it passes. I thought that busses from the East finished at Ekamai bus station where there is a BTS station. Good luck

PS are you sure that your 'bus' isn't a van?

Many thanks for the response.

Well it is what we call a minibus in the UK which is about a 16 seater. A van in the UK has no rear side windows and is usually just for carrying goods and thus only has front seats for one passenger. The big coaches / buses to Bangkok, from here in Ban Chang town in Rayong where I live, do not go to Ekamai well none of them direct anyway, but like these small mini buses go to Mo Chit instead and first stop is Victory Monument where I can jump on the BTS system.

Will phone the shop in SIlom before I leave to check the situation, but Bangkok is a big place so feel I would be very unlucky to encounter any of the protests on my small travels.

[jreidy]

What on earth are these people trying to do to their own country.Have some common sense and call it of before you destroy it.

Reminds me of the Thatcher era in the UK, the poll tax riots, the miners strike ? or earlier under Heath, the 3 day week during which, the dead went unburied, the refuse uncollected, TV restricted, post undelivered, no power to offices 4 days a week, docks blocked....etc etc...not only Thailand

[Richard Hall]

WOW if that was red shirts i would guess there would be 15 dead and 45 wounded from military fire. Amazing how they make it look so obvious.

"If that was redshirts" half the city would be blockaded, the other half would be on fire, the army would be under attack with deadly weapons and the redshirts would deserve to be wiped out like the scum they are.

Hm, ran into a "redshirt" yesterday in our area in Bangkholaem. Simple worker from Isaan and not at the demonstrations because he had to work for a living. He had no weapons and/or matches with him. We chatted for a while had a laugh together and that was it. Well, typical situation for the Thais that I know and those are quite a lot and as per my experience this appears to hold also true for the majority independant from the colour of their shirts.

Now I ask myself, do I know the wrong people.

No you just know people who are not interested in what is happening. Your red shirt will take the money vote red shirt and that will be it. You forget these 180,000 people with no color to there shirts are spending there own money to try to bring a decent government to Thailand. They care about Thailand they do not have a pay master. 66,000,000 Thais 230.000 between the two parties demonstrating.

Easy to meet some one who is not there and has no intention of going there. the thing to do is look at the reasons for the ones who are going there there.

Then make your own decision.

So we end-up in a never ending circle becaue there will always be unsatisfied people for various reasons and the problem is everyone is right from a certain point of view.

Also the question remains whether those people demonstrating actually care about Thailand or have just their own agenda of selfishness. No, it is surely not that one red shirt person I talked to but rather a lot of people and it appears that the majority are just fed up with demonstrations regardless for what reason they are carried out. Possibly, because those demonstrations interfere with their daily lifes and put those of their families into jeopardy because they have to work for the daily bowl of rice and just do not have their own money to spend to participate in acharchism. They basically live evey day from hand to mouth.

A while ago I met an Egyptian here in Thailand and we talked about politics and he eventually concluded the county and the people were better off under the Mubarak regime. Look at the so called Arab Spring obviously celebrated an appreciated by many but it appears to be much more like fall than spring.

People tend to act very short sighted without having an actual itinerary. Heaps of emotions but lack of good sense. What's next? Assuming the Suthep movement gets its will. Do you really think this will lead to a decent government or isn't it much more likely counter protests will occur. The past repeats itself. Again and again and again...

One would assume that fair elections would be the solution but at the end the losers of this election will always claim it was not a fair election and therefore use their "democratic right" to oppose the winners. Not really democracy but rather just a battle of mud by either side but everyone holding the opinion to be the true democrat acting for the sole purpose and good of the country and her people.

What is a fair election? Well, at least it means no one is forced by any means to vote or vote in a certain way. That is surely essential. Hm, giving hand-outs for votes is not fair but promises that cannot be kept are? It appears that there are 1,001 answers. So is for the question what democracy actually is. Eventually, it will always depend who is talking and the own agena. The winner or the loser and there will always be winners and losers. Bullying yourself to victory, however, can not be the answer because this guarantees only that not the majority but just the loundest and reckless will get their will while the majority of decent people will be kept unheard.

As per my experience Thai people rather wish to have a strong than a diplomatic leader what eventually brought Khun Thaksin to power and his name will always linger even without any hand-outs. Opposition appears to be absolutly aware of this and hence tries to avoid elections. How can this be democratic? Souldn't be the way to give the people a strong and honest person to elect. Someone that can be trusted and hence convinces the majority as Khun Thaksin once did. Where is this person?

Why didn't Khun Suthep demonstrate his strong leadership skills during election? What are those leadership skills? Just lead a mob to occupy buildings and try to bring the country to a standstill or does he also have the skills to solve the problems of the country? Don't shout, don't whistle, don't bully but rather CONVINCE the majority of the Thai voters. That's pretty much it. That's what democracy is all about. If you can not convince at an election how can you lead a country?

Just my two an a half cents.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Richard Hall

[Spare]

<snip all other post due to length>

So we end-up in a never ending circle becaue there will always be unsatisfied people for various reasons and the problem is everyone is right from a certain point of view.

Also the question remains whether those people demonstrating actually care about Thailand or have just their own agenda of selfishness. No, it is surely not that one red shirt person I talked to but rather a lot of people and it appears that the majority are just fed up with demonstrations regardless for what reason they are carried out. Possibly, because those demonstrations interfere with their daily lifes and put those of their families into jeopardy because they have to work for the daily bowl of rice and just do not have their own money to spend to participate in acharchism. They basically live evey day from hand to mouth.

A while ago I met an Egyptian here in Thailand and we talked about politics and he eventually concluded the county and the people were better off under the Mubarak regime. Look at the so called Arab Spring obviously celebrated an appreciated by many but it appears to be much more like fall than spring.

People tend to act very short sighted without having an actual itinerary. Heaps of emotions but lack of good sense. What's next? Assuming the Suthep movement gets its will. Do you really think this will lead to a decent government or isn't it much more likely counter protests will occur. The past repeats itself. Again and again and again...

One would assume that fair elections would be the solution but at the end the losers of this election will always claim it was not a fair election and therefore use their "democratic right" to oppose the winners. Not really democracy but rather just a battle of mud by either side but everyone holding the opinion to be the true democrat acting for the sole purpose and good of the country and her people.

What is a fair election? Well, at least it means no one is forced by any means to vote or vote in a certain way. That is surely essential. Hm, giving hand-outs for votes is not fair but promises that cannot be kept are? It appears that there are 1,001 answers. So is for the question what democracy actually is. Eventually, it will always depend who is talking and the own agena. The winner or the loser and there will always be winners and losers. Bullying yourself to victory, however, can not be the answer because this guarantees only that not the majority but just the loundest and reckless will get their will while the majority of decent people will be kept unheard.

As per my experience Thai people rather wish to have a strong than a diplomatic leader what eventually brought Khun Thaksin to power and his name will always linger even without any hand-outs. Opposition appears to be absolutly aware of this and hence tries to avoid elections. How can this be democratic? Souldn't be the way to give the people a strong and honest person to elect. Someone that can be trusted and hence convinces the majority as Khun Thaksin once did. Where is this person?

Why didn't Khun Suthep demonstrate his strong leadership skills during election? What are those leadership skills? Just lead a mob to occupy buildings and try to bring the country to a standstill or does he also have the skills to solve the problems of the country? Don't shout, don't whistle, don't bully but rather CONVINCE the majority of the Thai voters. That's pretty much it. That's what democracy is all about. If you can not convince at an election how can you lead a country?

Just my two an a half cents.

Assuming the Suthep movement gets its will. He will create a people parliament run by the people, and not politicians.

I know you are think of another Chinese culture revolution of Pol Pot Khmer Rouge; NO, it won't be that way.

This is Thailand, and all the people respect each other.

The Thai people parliament will work, and there is be peace on earth.

And best of all, All Thai will love the king without reservation.

[mikemac]

Hm, ran into a "redshirt" yesterday in our area in Bangkholaem. Simple worker from Isaan and not at the demonstrations because he had to work for a living. He had no weapons and/or matches with him. We chatted for a while had a laugh together and that was it. Well, typical situation for the Thais that I know and those are quite a lot and as per my experience this appears to hold also true for the majority independant from the colour of their shirts.

Now I ask myself, do I know the wrong people.

Your "redshirt" sounds like a lovely fellow, hard to believe he associates with the type of lowlifes who did what they did in 2010, in Bangkok and all around the country, setting fire to tires, government buildings, shopping centers and anything else that would burn. Not to mention what happened at the hospital and their violent attacks on the Thai Army.

The redshirt who sticks in my mind is the one I saw attacking the ATM in front of the Bangkok Bank branch in Thapae Rd. Chiang Mai, while terrified bank staff ran from the bank fearing for their lives.

He was probably a simple worker from Isaan as well, who was giving Thaksin real value for his 500 baht a day.

Don't talk to me about rotten to the core terrorists, they are easily the lowest form of life on this planet, and anyone who supports them is not much better.