Personal experience of corruption

[thailiketoo]

So how much they pay in the real world?

Most of the clubs that stay open beyond the official closing time pay the police and you would be surprised about the amount of money involved.

Why would I be surprised? If you have a club tell us.

LOL.

Unlike me you have lived in Thailand so long that you are exempted from surprise.

No I don’t own a club and if you do or did then please explain the economics behind the amount that need to be paid to the police in order to stay open beyond closing time.

I’m genuinely interested and I assume it’s related to the number of customers a club draws in after hours and if there are for lack of a better word other nefarious activities taking place on the premises which would need a blind eye of the police.

The BKK Post had an article about two years back in which they claimed some clubs paid a miilion a month with the owners lamenting that they'd rather pay tax if given the chance.

I think you should not write about things you don't know about. The thread is about personal experience. Or at least documented experience. Who pays more; a club in Pattaya or a club in London? Then we have some basis to compare corruption. Who pays more a club in NYC or a club in Bangkok?

How can you say one is bad if it is the same all over the world? What does it cost to operate an illegal business in LA as opposed to Phuket?

[Kilgore Trout]

the embarrassment of looking silly by comparing corruption in Chicago to Bangkok/Thailand.

You really don't understand the saying "comparing apples to oranges?"

You should get out more;)

The city of Chicago does more business than Thailand. GDP Chicago much more than the country of Thailand. I ran business in Chicago and Thailand. Chicago was much more corrupt. Why is that apples to oranges? The flaming parts of your post about embarrassment and I should get out more I will ignore but for future reference drop the flames. You can debate without flaming.

I was born and raised in Chicago. It is a heavily regulated city but not corrupt; not that corruption doesn't exist but real and true efforts are made to stamp it out and punish wrongdoers.

Just look at Blago, Burge, Rosty etc. etc.

Examples like that would NEVER happen in Thailand, so again you are certainly, without a shadow of a doubt comparing apples to oranges.

And you're probably a Cubs fan too

One day I was walking home from my restaurant close to the Key Club (nude restaurant that Playboy got the idea from) I stopped in for a beer. I lived close to Lincoln Park. My favorite draft beer was gone. All the draft beers on that street had changed in one day. The Alderman had bought an interest in a new beer company. My building inspector, health inspector and fire inspector all hit me up once a year for cash or my restaurant got closed. The cops always ate for free. Hit and run. My car got hit. I found the car that hit me and told the cops where it was. They laughed and asked me if I thought the Chicago police department was like the TV shows . The Alderman also told me who would do my restaurant's laundry.

I assume you did not live downtown. I lived in both downtown Chicago and Arlington Heights. Like night and day. Outside of the City might as well been a different planet.

Corrupt police? Google 68' Democratic convention. The nation watched on TV in rage and disbelief as the democratic process was torn apart. Makes Bangkok look mild.

Well, if that is the case expose it; file a lawsuit against the city. If you are correct, something will be done about it. Call WGN, they love exposes like that.

If the right people find out about it, heads will roll, unlike Thailand

[thailiketoo]

Well, if that is the case expose it; file a lawsuit against the city. If you are correct, something will be done about it. Call WGN, they love exposes like that.

If the right people find out about it, heads will roll, unlike Thailand

Heads did roll. Between 1973 and 2012, 31 aldermen were convicted of corruption. Heads are still rolling.

Chicago. Chicago. Chicago.

You can’t say it enough. That’s because liberals fear that the very name of the city of Al Capone, Richard J. Daley, Rahm Emanuel and Barack Obama has become shorthand for dirty politics and redistributionist economics.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/31/chicago-does-mean-corruption/?page=all

Chicago's Most Corrupt Wards With the convictions of Jesse Jackson Jr., Sandi Jackson and William Beavers all coming within a month of each other, the 7th Ward entered elite company in Chicago. It’s one of only four wards with three convicted politicians, along with the 23rd, the 28th and the 31st

http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/Chicagos-Most-Corrupt-Wards-199481871.html

Now lets not talk about apples and oranges. Chicago is and was America's leading symbol or corruption and the reputation is deserved.

Keep the Thais away from Chicago, they might learn too much and Bangkok would really be toast.

Edited November 27, 2013 by thailiketoo

[Kilgore Trout]

Well, if that is the case expose it; file a lawsuit against the city. If you are correct, something will be done about it. Call WGN, they love exposes like that.

If the right people find out about it, heads will roll, unlike Thailand

Heads did roll. Between 1973 and 2012, 31 aldermen were convicted of corruption. Heads are still rolling.

Chicago. Chicago. Chicago.

You can’t say it enough. That’s because liberals fear that the very name of the city of Al Capone, Richard J. Daley, Rahm Emanuel and Barack Obama has become shorthand for dirty politics and redistributionist economics.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/31/chicago-does-mean-corruption/?page=all

Chicago's Most Corrupt Wards With the convictions of Jesse Jackson Jr., Sandi Jackson and William Beavers all coming within a month of each other, the 7th Ward entered elite company in Chicago. It’s one of only four wards with three convicted politicians, along with the 23rd, the 28th and the 31st

http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/Chicagos-Most-Corrupt-Wards-199481871.html

Now lets not talk about apples and oranges. Chicago is and was America's leading symbol or corruption and the reputation is deserved.

Keep the Thais away from Chicago, they might learn too much and Bangkok would really be toast.

I see what you are saying but its a completely different kind of corruption; and at least; as you mentioned; people do get caught and punished.

On the Thai side; corruption permeates every level of society, from the lowest to the highest. and unlike in the US, people are not shocked or dismayed by it; many people prefer it as studies have shown.

So again, imho; its like comparing apples to oranges; or perhaps mangoes.

[draftvader]

My personal perspective is that there is corruption everywhere. When it comes to the league tables for values and deception I think that my home country, the UK, is leaps and bounds ahead of Thailand (Thailand hasn't yet managed to gang-up, invade countries, raze them to the ground and exploit them for every natural resource they can). Where the UK can't compete is the pervasiveness of the corruption. In the UK most people know about corruption but just don't experience it. EVERY Thai person I meet has their stories. Us foreigners are actually a little harder to corrupt because they realise that often we have no understanding of what we are being asked so don't know how to treat it. In Thai on Thai corruption it is all done with a smile on the face and with the understanding that one day it will be your turn. When they attempt to corrupt "wet behind the ears" foreigners they are often met with a confused look and, potentially, face losing anger.

Hang around long enough and play the right games and you will get your turn....both ways.

[thailiketoo]

Well, if that is the case expose it; file a lawsuit against the city. If you are correct, something will be done about it. Call WGN, they love exposes like that.

If the right people find out about it, heads will roll, unlike Thailand

Heads did roll. Between 1973 and 2012, 31 aldermen were convicted of corruption. Heads are still rolling.

Chicago. Chicago. Chicago.

You can’t say it enough. That’s because liberals fear that the very name of the city of Al Capone, Richard J. Daley, Rahm Emanuel and Barack Obama has become shorthand for dirty politics and redistributionist economics.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/31/chicago-does-mean-corruption/?page=all

Chicago's Most Corrupt Wards With the convictions of Jesse Jackson Jr., Sandi Jackson and William Beavers all coming within a month of each other, the 7th Ward entered elite company in Chicago. It’s one of only four wards with three convicted politicians, along with the 23rd, the 28th and the 31st

http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/Chicagos-Most-Corrupt-Wards-199481871.html

Now lets not talk about apples and oranges. Chicago is and was America's leading symbol or corruption and the reputation is deserved.

Keep the Thais away from Chicago, they might learn too much and Bangkok would really be toast.

I see what you are saying but its a completely different kind of corruption; and at least; as you mentioned; people do get caught and punished.

On the Thai side; corruption permeates every level of society, from the lowest to the highest. and unlike in the US, people are not shocked or dismayed by it; many people prefer it as studies have shown.

So again, imho; its like comparing apples to oranges; or perhaps mangoes.

Like I said before I assume you are not from downtown Chicago. It is a different world. The cops are corrupt and the politicians are corrupt and the people who pay the bribes are corrupt. Who else is there?

We had restaurants in Chicago and Denver. Transferred the Best manager in Chicago to take over a new restaurant in Denver. Health inspector wrote us up for a dish washing machine not being hot enough. The Chicago manager handed the Denver health inspector a $100 dollar bill. I thought the health inspector was going to chokes. They almost had the manager arrested until I told them he was from Chicago.

In the city of Chicago you learn to get along with the machine or you don't get along. Same in parts of Thailand. What percent of the crooks get caught in Chicago? Small percent. How do I know? Because the cops are crooked. You only get arrested if your are real obvious. Same as Bangkok. You can run the brothel and gambling house but for gosh sakes don't advertise on the INTERNET. The Bangkok cops do have people who car read English and surf the INTERNET. There are swingers clubs in Chicago and Bangkok and Pattaya. They are illegal in Chicago, Bangkok and Pattaya. They bust the ones in Bangkok and Pattaya.

[Travel2003]

Ya Corruption all around Thailand

I was parked in a NO PARKING Zone and had just come back. The cop was booting my tire. So I go in the car and just before he was going to write the ticket out I said in Thai

How much He said 500 I said Oh sorry I only have 2 he said no and then put his pen on the paper and I said OK 300 that is all I have He put his hand in the window below the window ledge and I slipped the 300 into his hand. He then said

Have a good day Took the boot off the tire and looked for another sucker

Oh well better than paying the 500 and having to haul down to the Police station to get them to come and unlock the Boot So I look at it this way

I SAVED 200 baht since the actual fine was 500

Sad state of affairs here in Thailand with Corruption

How is this corruption when you had admittedly broken the law. I think a lot of TV posters think that paying a legitimate fine is an act of corruption. Go figure! Do you pay your tickets in your home country and cry "corruption"?

Agree

Who broke the law in the first place?

Who bribed someone after that?

Who is the most corrupt?

A cookie for the one with 3 correct answers.

[draftvader]

Ya Corruption all around Thailand

I was parked in a NO PARKING Zone and had just come back. The cop was booting my tire. So I go in the car and just before he was going to write the ticket out I said in Thai

How much He said 500 I said Oh sorry I only have 2 he said no and then put his pen on the paper and I said OK 300 that is all I have He put his hand in the window below the window ledge and I slipped the 300 into his hand. He then said

Have a good day Took the boot off the tire and looked for another sucker

Oh well better than paying the 500 and having to haul down to the Police station to get them to come and unlock the Boot So I look at it this way

I SAVED 200 baht since the actual fine was 500

Sad state of affairs here in Thailand with Corruption

How is this corruption when you had admittedly broken the law. I think a lot of TV posters think that paying a legitimate fine is an act of corruption. Go figure! Do you pay your tickets in your home country and cry "corruption"?

Agree

Who broke the law in the first place?

Who bribed someone after that?

Who is the most corrupt?

A cookie for the one with 3 correct answers.

Let's be straight about this. When you are stopped they are allowed to fine you on the spot with a receipt for your "crime". If you do not have the money or feel you have been unfairly stopped you are allowed to ask them to write you a ticket whereupon they hold your licence at the local police station. You have 7 days to attend to pay your fine or dispute. This is all well and fine and does happen sometimes.

It becomes corrupt when you push for a ticket (the legal process) and they suddenly reduce the amount which, when paid, is not receipted. At this point you know the money has gone into the pocket of the officer or into the day's "tea collection fund" for divvying out later.

The example given above is clearly corruption. If you have been in this situation you'll realise that you have 2 options once you have been presented with this "alternative". Pay or stick your ground for a ticket. The latter could end with you getting into a lot of "extra" trouble. Having B100 next to my licence has removed most of the stages. An alarming amount of policemen, when faced with a pro-active attempt at bribing, turn you away on the spot. To me this shows that they are unhappy if they are being provoked into it (possibly thinking they are being trapped).

Interestingly, and a little off-topic, I have had my fine reduced at the police station once because the girl taking the money was trying to get me to go for a drink with her. She was all smiles and reduced it from B400 to B300, said I could have it for B100 if I took her out for a drink, then she spotted my wedding ring and asked. I told her I was married to which she was very kind and told me that she couldn't reduce it any further but stuck with it at B300. What happened there?

Even weirder was the policeman who hugged me in Pin Klao during a stop when he found out my wife was English???!?! I have no idea what happened but took it as well as I could as he saluted me and told me to go on my way??????

[thailiketoo]

My first wife was DDGL. Drop dead good looking. She never paid a fine or fee or penalty or any other cost if the person imposing such cost was of the male sex. The mayor came to our house to request she did not walk the dog down main street at rush hour because she was causing to many auto accidents. Is that corruption or appreciation. When we got a divorce the judge asked her out for lunch after the trial. Is that corruption?

[ozyjon]

oh what? no such thing happens here my friend.

[chickenslegs]

How is this corruption when you had admittedly broken the law. I think a lot of TV posters think that paying a legitimate fine is an act of corruption. Go figure! Do you pay your tickets in your home country and cry "corruption"?

Agree

Who broke the law in the first place?

Who bribed someone after that?

Who is the most corrupt?

A cookie for the one with 3 correct answers.

I understand what you are getting at. Offering the bribe is corrupt and against the law (despite being common practice here).

But, IMO, the most corrupt is the police officer. He took an oath of office and swore before the King to do his duty under the law.

[draftvader]

I'm curious. Is the OP satisfied yet?

Sent from my phone, hence brevity and gypos

[glegolo]

Interesting, I thought there would be a tidal wave of first hand examples. Maybe it isn't as bad as people make out

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thats because you are asking for rejected corruption stories.

I was asking for both to get a fair picture

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sorry mate, but I have to agree with Showbags here.

I read it again and again, and the bottom line is.....it was rejected.

Might have been a typo, which I'm sure doesn't matter.

Just wait and see, the tsunami will come soon.

You are wrong both of you, sorry that there is a languageproblem with your english strangly enough

He wrote:

People give the impression Thailand is corrupt and people can be bought off. It would be good to hear peoples personal

experiences first hand of corruption where you paid someone,,,,, or even offered to pay someone and it was rejected

Glegolo

[meom]

So how much they pay in the real world?

Most of the clubs that stay open beyond the official closing time pay the police and you would be surprised about the amount of money involved.

Why would I be surprised? If you have a club tell us.

LOL.

Unlike me you have lived in Thailand so long that you are exempted from surprise.

No I dont own a club and if you do or did then please explain the economics behind the amount that need to be paid to the police in order to stay open beyond closing time.

Im genuinely interested and I assume its related to the number of customers a club draws in after hours and if there are for lack of a better word other nefarious activities taking place on the premises which would need a blind eye of the police.

The BKK Post had an article about two years back in which they claimed some clubs paid a miilion a month with the owners lamenting that they'd rather pay tax if given the chance.

I think you should not write about things you don't know about. The thread is about personal experience. Or at least documented experience. Who pays more; a club in Pattaya or a club in London? Then we have some basis to compare corruption. Who pays more a club in NYC or a club in Bangkok?

How can you say one is bad if it is the same all over the world? What does it cost to operate an illegal business in LA as opposed to Phuket?

You're probably right and I agree that people with direct experience are more qualified to comment than myself.

[Pando2k]

In 5 years have only had 1 personal experience and 1 through my girlfriend who's family are from Chiang rai. Her aunty is fairly well off and an uncle who was a drug addict. Long story short he was becoming a bit of a pest always borrowing money, stealing, making the family look bad I guess, went on for quite a while until her aunty paid police 20,000 for him to "disappear" he was shot point blank range on the side of the road. Officially was a drug related crime.

This story may be long feel free to skip it.....My personal experience was with 2 thai lady friends drinking on soi 4. A few thai whiskeys and tequilas later we are in a cab going to some unknown karaoke bar that I agreed to go too. No more than 2-3 kilometers down sukhumvit road the girls needed to vomit. I told the taxi driver to return to soi 4 immediately. It was too late both girls had vomited all over the floor of the back seat. The taxi driver pulled over at a gas station and went into a rage. He Demanded 15,000 baht from me, I told him I "not have" but was willing to pay to have it cleaned and for his list time he was livid. I took the girls out of the car a small distance away from the vehicle incase things got ugly. He thought I was leaving the scene he popped his boot and took out his tyre iron and ran towards me. I was a little drunk myself and must have set off bad body language and he started beating me with the tyre iron. It was now a full blown dust up. I genuinely thought my life was at risk I split his head and cheeck open he also bit his tongue and was bleeding quite a bit. Within minutes the BIB arrived and had both of us restrained. Another very long story short and 10 minutes of everyone explaining the story in thai which I didn't understand it was concluded it was my fault and I infact attacked him and I was in serious trouble and would be charged and have to go to the police station. After negotiating with the BIB in English we settled on a price 10,000 for the BIB and 3,000 "compensation" to the taxi driver and I was free to go, I may have paid overs But I was quite distressed and just wanted the situation to go away It was a scary experience but I was grateful it could be settled with a payoff. Sometimes corruption can be convenient

[Showbags]

I'm curious. Is the OP satisfied yet?

Sent from my phone, hence brevity and gypos

If he's not, I'll pay him 100b to be....

[moojar]

Land Office for the purchase of land 600,000 THB.

Employees:

"In my case this field has a value of 1,100,000THB so is the reference value to pay the fee to be 80,000 THB. But if you give me 15000 THB I accept your price and you will pay only 20,000."

Ha ha, similar to my own "money saving" experience way back in 1993. Me and bunch of colleagues were relocated from Malaysia to BKK, and shipped our personal effects together in one container. Thai Customs gave us a choice - pay B60,000 import duties on the electricals, or B30,000 tea money. The Canadian company we worked for even reimbursed us the 30,000.

All of this was handled by the Thai admin assistant / whatever, so she may well have pocketed a portion of the 30,000 for all I know.

[Naam]

a few years ago (early sunday morning) i took a newly acquired 12-cylinder twin turbo for a comfortable slow ride (Pattaya Beach Road and Jomtien). on my way home i floored the gas pedal on Sukhumvit direction Rayong (hardly any traffic) and was flagged down. policeman approaching me from behind, another one from the front. took my license and 500 Baht out of my wallet and waited. i don't recall exactly but the conversation was something like this:

-good morning Papa. you live in Thailand long time.

-yes Sir, about 6 years.

-where you go now?

-going home to have breakfast.

-can we look at motor Papa?

-of course!

-oh Papa! many many... song si hok bat sip sipsong!!!

-yes sipsong...

-big gasoline Papa?

-yes big gasoline 95 gold.

-have nice day Papa!

altogether a most horrible experience of deplorable corruption in Thailand.

[namdocmai]

Some years ago we went to Samui again for some days relaxing. Booked a bungalow in a resort on Chaweng beach, close to everything. Great resort, all fine but then at 11 pm the discobeat started, very loud and very deep basenoises. This went on untill 6 am and nobody could sleep. The owner told us the disco paid the police to make so much noise.

Also last year we went to a hotel (forgot where) with a group of thai. Nice hotel at the riverbank. Then at nite huge party-boats with superloud music started coming over the river. Every 2 minutes a new huge floating disco with very very loud music. They kept coming untill midnite or even later. Don't know if that is legal in Thailand or that they paid the police for it though but it really sucks if you plan to relax at the river for a weekend.

[mca]

even offered to pay someone and it was rejected

We had some business with the land department that needed sorting out and was told it could be done the same day for a "fee" of 1000 baht to avoid the usual waiting period. The head of the department sitting at the back was eavesdropping( i think he was more interested in the westerner speaking Thai than anything else) and overheard the woman telling us this. He said " We don't do that here" and made the woman process us for the usual small fee there and then.

Result!

Kind of weird as it was a small office and he only sat a few feet from the woman. Couldn't have been the first time she'd tried it on unless the bloke was getting shit from above in some tea money purge or whatever.

I have to admit I've been on the receiving end of corruption benefits ( through my own naivety).

When I first came to LOS a Thai colleague invited me to this private club that his dad was a member of. Very nice, good restaurant, western chef, pool, gym, massage etc. I asked what his dad did and he told me that he worked for the government. I thought " He must have a good job" until I found out much later that his dad's membership was a "gift' from the club owner for some " liberal" regulations being employed.

Christ I was wet behind the ears then

[oops]

Wow are you on a fishing trip or what...?