US judge rules NSA mass phone surveillance programme to be 'unconstitutional'

[webfact]

NSA mass phone surveillance programme 'unconstitutional'

WASHINGTON: -- A US judge has ruled the National Security Agency's mass collection of telephone data unconstitutional.

Federal District Judge Richard Leon said the electronic spy agency's practice was an "arbitrary invasion".

The agency's collection of "metadata" including telephone numbers and times and dates of calls was brought exposed by ex-NSA contractor Edward Snowden.

The White House dismissed the suggestion Mr Snowden receive amnesty if he stopped leaking documents.

In his ruling in a Washington DC federal court on Monday, Mr Leon called the NSA's surveillance programme "indiscriminate" and an "almost Orwellian technology that enables the government to store and analyze the phone metadata of every telephone user in the United States".
[read more...]

Full story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25410064


-- BBC 2013-12-17

[DavyJones88]

The power hungry, illegitimate, criminal police state doesn't care about a Judge or a law or a court or a Constitution, like a drug addict they are totally addicted and will never stop the tyranny until it is too late.

[JLCrab]

The first sentence of The NY Times article reads:

WASHINGTON — A federal district judge ruled on Monday that the National Security Agency program that is systematically keeping records of all Americans’ phone calls most likely violates the Constitution ...

My italics http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/17/us/politics/federal-judge-rules-against-nsa-phone-data-program.html?hp&_r=0

[lomatopo]

Hardly surprising, most intelligent people knew this (meta-data: essentially CDRs) was illegal. And it will hold up as the Government will be unable - unwilling under the guise of "National Security" - to prove that the benefits outweigh the many rights to privacy.

This quote may give a feel for how the NSA views the legality of spying on citizens, and of pesky judicial over-sight...

General Michael Hayden, former director of both NSA and the Central Intelligence Agency, said the metadata made a contribution to weaving the "tapestry of intelligence" and that judges "are not really in a good position to judge the merits of intelligence collection programs".

[Asiantravel]

Hardly surprising, most intelligent people knew this (meta-data: essentially CDRs) was illegal. And it will hold up as the Government will be unable - unwilling under the guise of "National Security" - to prove that the benefits outweigh the many rights to privacy.

This quote may give a feel for how the NSA views the legality of spying on citizens, and of pesky judicial over-sight...

General Michael Hayden, former director of both NSA and the Central Intelligence Agency, said the metadata made a contribution to weaving the "tapestry of intelligence" and that judges "are not really in a good position to judge the merits of intelligence collection programs".

I hope such intelligent people can by now see a clearly discernible trend through all these various scandals and start joining the dots before it's too late

[chuckd]

The first sentence of The NY Times article reads:

WASHINGTON — A federal district judge ruled on Monday that the National Security Agency program that is systematically keeping records of all Americans’ phone calls most likely violates the Constitution ...

My italics http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/17/us/politics/federal-judge-rules-against-nsa-phone-data-program.html?hp&_r=0

Quoted from your link::

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The judge, Richard J. Leon of Federal District Court for the District of Columbia, ordered the government to stop collecting data on the personal calls of the two plaintiffs in the case and to destroy the records of their calling history. But Judge Leon, appointed to the bench in 2002 by President George W. Bush, stayed his injunction “in light of the significant national security interests at stake in this case and the novelty of the constitutional issues,” allowing the government time to appeal it, which he said could take at least six months.

“I cannot imagine a more ‘indiscriminate’ and ‘arbitrary’ invasion than this systematic and high-tech collection and retention of personal data on virtually every single citizen for purposes of querying and analyzing it without prior judicial approval,” Judge Leon wrote in a 68-page ruling. “Surely, such a program infringes on ‘that degree of privacy’ that the founders enshrined in the Fourth Amendment,” which prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And from page 56 of the court's injunction...

"There is a significant likelihood Plaintiffs will succeed in showing that the searches are unreasonable."

In other words, unless the Justice Department comes up with some compelling evidence to the contrary in the six month stay, his order will stand, pending appeal.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/dec/16/nsa-collection-phone-metadata-district-court-ruling

[sunsamourai]

Has NSA ever cared all that much about trivial things like laws or constitution ?

NSA could find insightful inspiration from the Thai way to do things : Mai Pen Rai, business goes on as usual.

Would be a golden chance for YL to take the microphone and share the most efficient Thai ways with the world. A bit like what she did during the Democracy forrum in Mongolia...

[Emdog]

I think Snowden should have gotten man of year over pope, but then knowing economics, pope is less controversial, so would sell more copies of Time. Would this probably unconstitutional action have gotten out in light of day without him or someone like him? I doubt it. I hope if unlikely offer of amnesty is offered, he wouldn't take it. Who knows what other illegal and/or unconstitutional actions done on behalf of USA could come from him. Power corrupts. The truth will set you free, but government won't.

[ehw200]

Ok,,,,that takes care of the the US citzens,,,nowhow abput the spying on telephone and emails of [eop;e in pther countries

I read a few days ago that Thailand wants a US naval base here,,,please please please NO,,,they will end up trying to control Thailand as they have done in central America and some countries in South America,,,ay least Equador had the smarts to kick out the navy base there,,,only people to mess them are the prostitutes,,,much the same happened in Panama

[jobsworth]

well done Federal District Judge Richard Leon.

what will they do to him now?

make him disappear?

[Mudcrab]

The power hungry, illegitimate, criminal police state doesn't care about a Judge or a law or a court or a Constitution, like a drug addict they are totally addicted and will never stop the tyranny until it is too late.

Next time you get robbed call a criminal not a cop

[F430murci]

Ok,,,,that takes care of the the US citzens,,,nowhow abput the spying on telephone and emails of [eop;e in pther countries

I read a few days ago that Thailand wants a US naval base here,,,please please please NO,,,they will end up trying to control Thailand as they have done in central America and some countries in South America,,,ay least Equador had the smarts to kick out the navy base there,,,only people to mess them are the prostitutes,,,much the same happened in Panama

US Constitutional standard or protections not extended to or afforded to foreign citizens or spying on foreign phones. That issue has been litigated, resolved and won't be reversed.

The domestic wire tap is the sticky issue and this case has a very long way to go in the appellate process. I will be very interested in seeing how the Circuit Court and Supreme Court resolves this issue.

I have also always been against the Patriot Act as a slippery slope to erosion of 4th and privacy rights. That said, this case (narrow facts) and Judge Leon was perhaps cherry picked by nutty conservative activist Larry Klayman

I wish serious issues like these were litigated by serious lawyers with some credibility. Klayman was once bared for life from practicing in a California Federal Court, sued his own mother, was accused of inappropriately touching his child, was reprimanded by Florida bar, tried to sue Facebook for a $ 1 billion over some gibberish and 2 months ago was calling for a revolution against Bama.

Certain aspects regarding Judge Leon's opinion, including deferred or non-enforcement, make one wonder if the opinion was intended as political rhetoric designed only to cause public outrage as opposed to strict application of the law designed to protect society.

This is actually a very important issue, but will likely be viewed as a joke in legal and judicial circles based on Klayman's involvement and history if filing nutty cases. This is unfortunate.

For you guys bellyaching about foreign wire tape and carrying big resentments against or big chips on your shoulder about US, . . . Looks like you can keep on fuming as NSA will continue to tap your phones, your computer and use high powered satellite lenses to watch your every move because YOU ARE SO IMPORTANT!!!!!

[F430murci]

well done Federal District Judge Richard Leon.

what will they do to him now?

make him disappear?

Now that is stupid. No one is going to do anything to Judge Leon. Heck, no one has done anything to the nuttier than a fruitcake Larry Klayman who brought the suit and has a long history of nutty political lawsuits and tried to call for a revolution.

You guys need to stop reading conspiracy theory websites . . . or at least stop believing everything the Internet has to say.

[tingtongteesood]

What the people don't know won't hurt them....but if they do find out, brace for impact ! I applaud Snowden for bringing this to the attention of the masses...

[F430murci]

What the people don't know won't hurt them....but if they do find out, brace for impact ! I applaud Snowden for bringing this to the attention of the masses...

I actually agree with this. I have no respect for Snowden, but I have less respect for government intrusion that violates the Constitution. The reality is that the taps are not a huge deal as you only get nailed if certain words are utilized or certain parameters are met. I, however, have always viewed the domestic taps and Patriot Act as a slippery slope that is constantly eroding privacy rights.

I also think most already knew about what we have heard publicly from Snowden. The damaging stuff is what does not get publish in media because it has very little outrage potential and would make for boring press.

Edited December 17, 2013 by F430murci

[Asiantravel]

well done Federal District Judge Richard Leon.

what will they do to him now?

make him disappear?

Now that is stupid. No one is going to do anything to Judge Leon. Heck, no one has done anything to the nuttier than a fruitcake Larry Klayman who brought the suit and has a long history of nutty political lawsuits and tried to call for a revolution.

You guys need to stop reading conspiracy theory websites . . . or at least stop believing everything the Internet has to say.

You are so funny

you mean rely on the doublespeak of the mainstream media to know what's going on?

Get real!

Edited December 17, 2013 by Asiantravel

[falangadang]

Hardly surprising, most intelligent people knew this (meta-data: essentially CDRs) was illegal. And it will hold up as the Government will be unable - unwilling under the guise of "National Security" - to prove that the benefits outweigh the many rights to privacy.

This quote may give a feel for how the NSA views the legality of spying on citizens, and of pesky judicial over-sight...

General Michael Hayden, former director of both NSA and the Central Intelligence Agency, said the metadata made a contribution to weaving the "tapestry of intelligence" and that judges "are not really in a good position to judge the merits of intelligence collection programs".

I hope such intelligent people can by now see a clearly discernible trend through all these various scandals and start joining the dots before it's too late

I'm sorry to say that its already too late.

Turning things around that have been methodically and incrementally applied since 2001 is going to be a bit like trying to hold back the tide.

IMHO only a civil uprising or an act of God is going to restore America as the international symbol of freedom and liberty!

[F430murci]

well done Federal District Judge Richard Leon.

what will they do to him now?

make him disappear?

Now that is stupid. No one is going to do anything to Judge Leon. Heck, no one has done anything to the nuttier than a fruitcake Larry Klayman who brought the suit and has a long history of nutty political lawsuits and tried to call for a revolution.

You guys need to stop reading conspiracy theory websites . . . or at least stop believing everything the Internet has to say.

You are so funny

you mean rely on the doublespeak of the mainstream media to know what's going on?

Get real!

In case you missed it, the post related to a nutty comment that the judge would be made to disappear due to his opinion. Is that an issue in mainstream media or just a paranoid thought process?

Anyway, I base my opinion that judge's are safe to do and write as the deem appropriate from clerking for both an appellate and a State Supreme Court justice and from practicing law in many states for 20 years. If you think otherwise, you read to many nutty websites or have confused Hollywood with reality.

Edited December 17, 2013 by F430murci

[sunshine51]

In the words of former US Sec State Henry Kissinger...

"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a while longer."

The statement was made 43 years ago regarding the Menu Bombings

of Cambodia.

[Credo]

I would guess that they will limit the wire tapping a little, but not a lot. They will find out someway to get around the issue. As we speak they are probably making arrangements with one of our allies to tap the phones of US citizens and let us know if anything is going on....just like we pass on information about their citizens.

They are a spy agency and they spy on people. That's there business and that's what they do.

[sirineou]

US judge rules NSA mass phone surveillance programme to be 'unconstitutional'

No shit!!!

What about the US officials that appeared in frond of congress and testified that they were not collecting info. I was under the impression that perjury in front of Congress was a criminal offence.Why are they not in Jail?

[Credo]

Well, they aren't in jail because they haven't been charged. If they are charged, then they will have to be convicted. To convict them they will need evidence. Have you ever heard of plausible deniability?

[Credo]

They may also say that giving information before a public hearing would have caused a national security issue. That one is pretty broad.

[Asiantravel]

well done Federal District Judge Richard Leon.

what will they do to him now?

make him disappear?

Now that is stupid. No one is going to do anything to Judge Leon. Heck, no one has done anything to the nuttier than a fruitcake Larry Klayman who brought the suit and has a long history of nutty political lawsuits and tried to call for a revolution.

You guys need to stop reading conspiracy theory websites . . . or at least stop believing everything the Internet has to say.

You are so funny

you mean rely on the doublespeak of the mainstream media to know what's going on?

Get real!

In case you missed it, the post related to a nutty comment that the judge would be made to disappear due to his opinion. Is that an issue in mainstream media or just a paranoid thought process?

Anyway, I base my opinion that judge's are safe to do and write as the deem appropriate from clerking for both an appellate and a State Supreme Court justice and from practicing law in many states for 20 years. If you think otherwise, you read to many nutty websites or have confused Hollywood with reality.

No I didn't miss it. You seem to be inferring that a judge would never risk " disappearing " if his rulings somehow embarrassed the powers that be?

I don't agree particularly these days, after all we've seen regarding how low these people are prepared to stoop in terms of lies and deceit to fight for their political agenda ?

And by the way Judges have disappeared before …………………..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Force_Crater

[Credo]

Wow, you found a city judge who went missing close to a century ago.

Judges make rulings, but making the judge disappear will not change the ruling. The ruling has been made. If you want something done, you have to do it before, not after. Too late then.

The other thing to remember is the court doesn't have any power to enforce it's rulings. Enforcement is up to the gov't.

I recall reading a President once saying something to this effect about a Supreme Court ruling he disagreed with: The Court has made it's ruling, now let them enforce it.

[F430murci]

I would guess that they will limit the wire tapping a little, but not a lot. They will find out someway to get around the issue. As we speak they are probably making arrangements with one of our allies to tap the phones of US citizens and let us know if anything is going on....just like we pass on information about their citizens.

They are a spy agency and they spy on people. That's there business and that's what they do.

This.

I have a suspicion that NSA lawyers did not take the proceeding too seriously due to the fact that Larry Klan brought the suit.

My gues is they have instances where domestic terrorism was adverted (recent airport incident comes to mind), but did not provide for a litany of reasons.

I think the risk is too remote to warrant erosion of the 4th, but difficult today what appellate courts will hold if government does somehow put proof into evidence of examples where terrorism was adverted by domestic tapping.

I can say without a doubt there is more to the proof issues than you guys realize. Perhaps government obstinately acted like they did not need to present such proof, pissed the judge off and he railed them. Seen it happen many times in litigation.

[F430murci]

Now that is stupid. No one is going to do anything to Judge Leon. Heck, no one has done anything to the nuttier than a fruitcake Larry Klayman who brought the suit and has a long history of nutty political lawsuits and tried to call for a revolution.

You guys need to stop reading conspiracy theory websites . . . or at least stop believing everything the Internet has to say.

You are so funny

you mean rely on the doublespeak of the mainstream media to know what's going on?

Get real!

In case you missed it, the post related to a nutty comment that the judge would be made to disappear due to his opinion. Is that an issue in mainstream media or just a paranoid thought process?

Anyway, I base my opinion that judge's are safe to do and write as the deem appropriate from clerking for both an appellate and a State Supreme Court justice and from practicing law in many states for 20 years. If you think otherwise, you read to many nutty websites or have confused Hollywood with reality.

No I didn't miss it. You seem to be inferring that a judge would never risk " disappearing " if his rulings somehow embarrassed the powers that be?

I don't agree particularly these days, after all we've seen regarding how low these people are prepared to stoop in terms of lies and deceit to fight for their political agenda ?

And by the way Judges have disappeared before ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Force_Crater

Uh? I seem to be inferring what? I am guessing English is a second language????!

I am saying Federal judges are appointed for life. They generally will write and say as they please and neither Bama not the NSA is going to make this federal Judge disappear as implied or stated in post I responded to.

Whether you can accept that it grasp that has zero to do with reality. This judge obviously had little concern regarding your paranoid delusions for his safety given the tenor and holding of his opinion.

I would the tenor and substance of this opinion is a great reflection on the freedom of our judiciary to speak out against the government when they deem it is warranted.

Edited December 17, 2013 by F430murci

[chuckd]

Another case is in the courts now. The ACLU is working this one.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second Federal Judge 'Skeptical' About Legal Case for NSA Phone-Record Collection

By STEVEN NELSON

November 22, 2013

Attorneys for the American Civil Liberties Union appeared in U.S. District Court Friday to argue for a preliminary injunction that would halt the National Security Agency's collection of all Americans' phone records.

...from the article...

ACLU legal fellow Brett Max Kaufman, one of the attorneys in court for the hearing, said Pauley seemed skeptical of the government's reliance on the Supreme Court's 1979 Smith v. Maryland decision.

The landmark ruling found a criminal defendant did not have a reasonable expectation of privacy over a list of phone numbers he dialed within a two-day period. The ruling is a key pillar of the government's legal argument for the surveillance program.

"Judge Pauley asked some very skeptical questions about the lasting value of Smith v. Maryland with respect to a program as vast as this," Kaufman said.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/11/22/second-federal-judge-skeptical-about-legal-case-for-nsa-phone-record-collection

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think Snowden's quote in the BBC report is the most apt one: programs that were once secret are no longer secret, and are now finally getting their long-deserved review though the regular U.S. courts system (as opposed to the secret FISA court).

The federal district court judge's ruling is a preliminary one ahead of a potential trial on the merits of the case. The plaintiffs sought a preliminary injunction against the government prior to the full hearing on the case, and the judge granted it -- but then stayed his order giving the government time to file an appeal.

That's not at all an uncommon scenario in these kinds of cases. But coming from a Bush-appointed judge, the language of his ruling was pretty stern and harsh against the government and the NSA's phone surveillance programs. Remains to be seen whether the Court of Appeals and/or the Supreme Court will ultimately concur.

The conservative activist behind the case may be an oddball. But, whomever was presenting and arguing their case in federal court obviously managed to make a convincing argument to the federal judge handling the case.

Edited December 17, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Sayonarax]

well done Federal District Judge Richard Leon.

what will they do to him now?

make him disappear?

Now that is stupid. No one is going to do anything to Judge Leon. Heck, no one has done anything to the nuttier than a fruitcake Larry Klayman who brought the suit and has a long history of nutty political lawsuits and tried to call for a revolution.

You guys need to stop reading conspiracy theory websites . . . or at least stop believing everything the Internet has to say.

Conspiracy.. good little sheep.