Do you like teaching in Thailand?

[Shancloudy]

Before I was teaching in the primary government school from 8.30 am up to 1 pm and I was teaching ( Marketing, Advertising and Economics ) in the business school from 2.00pm up to 4pm.

Now, I am teaching full time in the primary government school with good salary.

Yes I am very happy to work here.

[bundoi]

One of the things that surprises me so much about TV in general is that so many people here post such profoundly anti-Thai views that I wonder why they are here at all - trapped in unhappy situations but can't afford to go back home ? Or maybe those views predominate in the large number of posts (I heard it was 25-40% on an average day) that originate from outside of the country?

Fortunately this trend seems to be much less prevalent on the teaching forum, but still so many of the posts even on the teaching forum, to me at least, seem to be from people who really don't want to be here.

Personally I enjoy Thailand very much. I've worked in many countries and I haven't enjoyed any country more than Thailand. I'm at an age where I could officially retire in Thailand (but I don't want to). Consequently I don't have the same financial pressures that younger forum members probably have. If I did have those pressures I would not be working in Thailand, and I would almost certainly not be a teacher either for that matter. Yet I grealy admire those young teachers here who are making a go of it.

Edited December 29, 2013 by bundoi

[zeichen]

"Not for me it isn't. I teach IELTS/TOEFL preparation to (fairly) motivated students and make around 80,000 a month for 23 hours teaching a week, and overtime, script marking etc. Plus being an IELTS examiner brings in extra cash.

I realise this isn't the type of information the OP is after, but the myth that all teaching in Thailand is hard work and poorly paid needed to be addressed!"

As you stated this isn't the usual job though and it is definitely not a government position. You also forgot to mention that it took you several years to get to that point. The amount of energy it takes to be an IELTS examiner isn't to be taken lightly. But to be honest with you if you think that 80k for 23+hours isn't hard work for low pay, you actually haven't been around the block very far. I believe any teaching load above 16 hours to be a heavy load for class work. I don't know your job, but most schools require you to be there more than just for your teaching hours. Full time teachers typically are required to be at schools from 8-4 or longer.

I have over 12 years teaching experience in Thailand. I have worked at government schools, private EP schools, government and private universities and language centers. I have worked the entire spectrum of jobs in Thailand from EFL to subject teacher. I have also taught in many other countries including my home country. I have been in China teaching for the past 4 months at a very good international school. I make and save a tonne of money so it is worth it for me to take 6 months away from home.

I love Thailand but find teaching and building a career in Thailand harder than any other neighboring country.

My biggest complaint about teaching in Thailand typically is in regards to management. I think that they expect too much devotion without compensation. Thai managers are used to more submissive factory type workers who don't mind wasting time. Hard workers are the ones there the longest not the ones that are most productive. The hours of schools were typically 7:30-4:30. More than half of the schools that I have worked at full time don't allow you to leave during school hours. One year, I only had 1 class on Mondays but had to be there from 7:45-4:00.

Thai students aren't any less motivated or more difficult to teach than anywhere else. What kid is suppose to be motivated for school anyway. Isn't that one of our roles as educators?

"one of the things that surprises me so much about TV in general is that so many people here post such profoundly anti-Thai views"

Bundoi, I think that you fail to realize that this is a public forum where people feel free to unwind. Most people are smart enough not to complain about the Thai system or how dysfunctional they feel their school is with Thai colleagues. This forum allows them to vent, so they can do their job without penting up their frustrations.

My guess is that you are still in the Honey moon phase where you see no wrong. Thailand is my home and I love it fully, but that doesn't mean that I have to like all things that I see. I even respect the different ways of doing things that I personally don't like or agree with.

If I could take my job in China with the way that the management functions and my colleagues back to Thailand, I would be the happiest worker. Earning and saving over 100k baht a month makes it worth it for a year but living in Thailand wins. It is just hard to accept 30-50k baht for more hours and more demanding bosses.

"

[culicine]

I work at a Government school in a rural area – Chaiyaphum province. Go to school Monday – Friday. Teach 18 different classes a week comprised of:

• 6 classes M3
• 6 classes M5
• 6 classes M6.

There are some additional teaching duties on top of this. Once a week I take care of an ‘English club’ and I also spend some of my lunchtimes giving extra classes to students who have asked for extra help. Also involved with the school’s annual English camp. (I am employed through an agency and the agency has also given me extra teaching duties out of term time – training programmes for adults working at the district education office, adult education programmes for admin staff at the local ‘ampur’ office, and an ASEAN training program for school directors from our province which included as a student the director of the school at which I teach).

I enjoy teaching all the classes. The students in the top streams of each year are brighter and more willing to learn English than their counterparts in the lower streams. They are also better at turning up for class. But all students have discipline issues – for example, they come to class late, they will get up and walk around during a lesson, they will use mobile phones and tablets in class, they will wear ear-phones/plugs and listen to music (I presume) during lessons, & they will do homework for another subject in class. The school tolerates this kind of behaviour so it can be frustrating sometimes. I’m sure some of the behavioural issues are due to the fact that students of many different kinds of abilities are mixed up together – I reckon there are probably students in some of my classes who suffer from dyslexia or have learning disabilities that are undiagnosed and probably require special schooling. But it seems those kinds of issues do not get recognised under the Thai Government school system.

But whatever my classes are like, I always try to make the lesson fun for the students and to adapt my material to suit the dynamics of the class. For example, I might take a boisterous class outside or have them engage in an activity or team game that involves them using all that energy in a way that the students want to – if they enjoy being loud and shouting then I’ll give them a game that involves being loud and shouting (spelling out loud can be good for that, awarding a point to the team that correctly spells a word the loudest). I might give a more studious class an activity that involves more thinking, like a question and answer activity where they have to read the questions correctly and then challenge each other to answer the questions.

I sometimes think the students must have memory issues, because I can teach them something one week and by the end of the lesson they seem to have learnt it. They will answer questions about the topic with confidence. Then when I see them the next week and do a quick recap on the previous week’s lesson they seem to have forgotten everything. Maybe committing things in English to their long term memory is just too much work for them; maybe the appeal of computer games and TV once they get home from school is just too strong. I’d be interested to know if it’s the same with their work for subjects taught in Thai. But at least this means that when it’s exam time the good students really do stand out.

As others have said, the school admin can be frustrating. Getting photocopying done can sometimes be an issue because the man whose job it is to do the copying is often not around, or the school has run out of copy paper. It’s frustrating too when, without any prior notice, a Thai teacher will say he/she is unable to teach a class because of some other more important commitment and drops the lesson on you instead. There’s precious little advance notice of any school ‘activities’ meaning you will only find out a lesson has been cancelled or moved after you turn up for class to teach only to find no students come. The worst case of this was one day last year when my colleague and I arrived at school only to find the school was closed for the day, except the school had forgotten to tell us. (It’s a 65km drive for me to get to school so not being told the school was closed was a big deal). But I enjoy the teaching and the satisfaction I get from that far outweighs these kinds of ‘out of the classroom’ issues.

I’ve been teaching at my current school for 2 years, and teaching in Thailand for a total of 3 years. I’ve taught at 3 different schools. The issues are the same at all the schools – one school even told me its policy was to keep students happy so if students wanted to be unruly in class or to miss my class I should just accept the situation since that made the students happy.

It’s already been agreed that the school where I am now want me back next year as it’s launching a new intensive English program that it wants me to be involved with. The agency that employs me is committed to this project too. It will mean my workload will increase next year and that I spend more time with the students who actually want to learn. I’m looking forward to it.

I'll be you 1000 baht that if you ask if its ok for kids to listen to music, use their i-pads, do other homework, in your class, they will say its NOT ok. How can they say that? So if you don't like that kindly inform the students you will take their electronic equipment off of them if they use it, until the end of the lesson. You need to get agreement about this with the admin. If they can't agree to this, they you will then know just how important the children's education is to the school. Of curse you can also integrate positive reinforcement with your measures as well....give points for well behaved students, etc.

[navara]

One of the things that surprises me so much about TV in general is that so many people here post such profoundly anti-Thai views that I wonder why they are here at all - trapped in unhappy situations but can't afford to go back home ? Or maybe those views predominate in the large number of posts (I heard it was 25-40% on an average day) that originate from outside of the country?

Fortunately this trend seems to be much less prevalent on the teaching forum, but still so many of the posts even on the teaching forum, to me at least, seem to be from people who really don't want to be here.

Personally I enjoy Thailand very much. I've worked in many countries and I haven't enjoyed any country more than Thailand. I'm at an age where I could officially retire in Thailand (but I don't want to). Consequently I don't have the same financial pressures that younger forum members probably have. If I did have those pressures I would not be working in Thailand, and I would almost certainly not be a teacher either for that matter. Yet I grealy admire those young teachers here who are making a go of it.

Bundoi,

Real off topic question, but I'll reply as short as possible.

Many came here to start a new and most of all happy life. The truth is, it is almost impossible to have a happy life here, even when you have tried to accept the " Thai way ". Everyday something happens ( your wife, family, job, traffic or whatever ) what gives you loads of stress. And then you think to help those little kids to have a better future, so you can relax a bit from all other " s*** ". You have more stress.... AH! You have some respect, for your efforts, that's really great. But 10k/month is absoluut idiot even when your are rich.

[Scott]

One of the things that surprises me so much about TV in general is that so many people here post such profoundly anti-Thai views that I wonder why they are here at all - trapped in unhappy situations but can't afford to go back home ? Or maybe those views predominate in the large number of posts (I heard it was 25-40% on an average day) that originate from outside of the country?

Fortunately this trend seems to be much less prevalent on the teaching forum, but still so many of the posts even on the teaching forum, to me at least, seem to be from people who really don't want to be here.

Personally I enjoy Thailand very much. I've worked in many countries and I haven't enjoyed any country more than Thailand. I'm at an age where I could officially retire in Thailand (but I don't want to). Consequently I don't have the same financial pressures that younger forum members probably have. If I did have those pressures I would not be working in Thailand, and I would almost certainly not be a teacher either for that matter. Yet I grealy admire those young teachers here who are making a go of it.

I think you are confusing being anti-Thai with wishing for a better working environment. It is work. It is a profession. Most teachers wish the students would learn better, quicker or more efficiently. If they speak well; we wish they could read better; if they read well, we wish they write better. It's what people who work do. They complain, they fine tune and then they go implement what they think will help.

Sometimes, when life gets stressful, we go on an internet discussion board and just bitch a little.

[White Tiger]

..... But all students have discipline issues – for example, they come to class late, they will get up and walk around during a lesson, they will use mobile phones and tablets in class, they will wear ear-phones/plugs and listen to music (I presume) during lessons, & they will do homework for another subject in class. The school tolerates this kind of behaviour so it can be frustrating sometimes.....

I'll be you 1000 baht that if you ask if its ok for kids to listen to music, use their i-pads, do other homework, in your class, they will say its NOT ok. How can they say that? So if you don't like that kindly inform the students you will take their electronic equipment off of them if they use it, until the end of the lesson. You need to get agreement about this with the admin. If they can't agree to this, they you will then know just how important the children's education is to the school. Of curse you can also integrate positive reinforcement with your measures as well....give points for well behaved students, etc.

The answer to that question will depend on who you ask. If you ask the students then they’ll probably say ‘yes’. If you ask the Thai head of department then I know he’ll say ‘Hmmm... it depends on what the students are using their electronic gadgets for. If they’re using them to look up English words then it’s Ok’. (I know that because he said it when I asked him). And of course that Thai teacher explanation is the way the school condones its policy of turning a blind eye.

As I said, the school tolerates the kind of behaviour I described, so I know already how important the education of the students is seen as being by the school. But I don’t tolerate this kind of behaviour in my classes and will often confiscate electronic equipment and Thai homework. But it’s a constant battle. I’ve found that many students are persistent offenders and eventually they stop coming to class rather than give up playing with their electronic devices. But you do need to be mindful of the way the students are using their gadgets, because on more than one occasion I’ve gone to take a tablet off a student and then as I’ve looked at the screen the student will indeed be looking up the Thai meaning of an English word. But I never hesitate to pull earphones out of ears.

Giving points for good behaviour etc – yes I do that already too. Not that many of the students seem to care. When students can’t be bothered coming to class they care even less about whether you give them credit for exhibiting good behaviours. Again, however, you need to be mindful of the school’s policies in this area. For example, last year the school asked me to award additional points to students according to ‘how much they loved the King’. How do you measure that? (The school couldn’t tell me the answer either).

Anyway I take the rough with the smooth and as I said in my first reply to the OP I enjoy teaching here. What are your own experiences of teaching in Thailand? Did you also have issues with students using electronic gadgets in class?

[navara]

..... But all students have discipline issues – for example, they come to class late, they will get up and walk around during a lesson, they will use mobile phones and tablets in class, they will wear ear-phones/plugs and listen to music (I presume) during lessons, & they will do homework for another subject in class. The school tolerates this kind of behaviour so it can be frustrating sometimes.....

I'll be you 1000 baht that if you ask if its ok for kids to listen to music, use their i-pads, do other homework, in your class, they will say its NOT ok. How can they say that? So if you don't like that kindly inform the students you will take their electronic equipment off of them if they use it, until the end of the lesson. You need to get agreement about this with the admin. If they can't agree to this, they you will then know just how important the children's education is to the school. Of curse you can also integrate positive reinforcement with your measures as well....give points for well behaved students, etc.

The answer to that question will depend on who you ask. If you ask the students then they’ll probably say ‘yes’. If you ask the Thai head of department then I know he’ll say ‘Hmmm... it depends on what the students are using their electronic gadgets for. If they’re using them to look up English words then it’s Ok’. (I know that because he said it when I asked him). And of course that Thai teacher explanation is the way the school condones its policy of turning a blind eye.

As I said, the school tolerates the kind of behaviour I described, so I know already how important the education of the students is seen as being by the school. But I don’t tolerate this kind of behaviour in my classes and will often confiscate electronic equipment and Thai homework. But it’s a constant battle. I’ve found that many students are persistent offenders and eventually they stop coming to class rather than give up playing with their electronic devices. But you do need to be mindful of the way the students are using their gadgets, because on more than one occasion I’ve gone to take a tablet off a student and then as I’ve looked at the screen the student will indeed be looking up the Thai meaning of an English word. But I never hesitate to pull earphones out of ears.

Giving points for good behaviour etc – yes I do that already too. Not that many of the students seem to care. When students can’t be bothered coming to class they care even less about whether you give them credit for exhibiting good behaviours. Again, however, you need to be mindful of the school’s policies in this area. For example, last year the school asked me to award additional points to students according to ‘how much they loved the King’. How do you measure that? (The school couldn’t tell me the answer either).

Anyway I take the rough with the smooth and as I said in my first reply to the OP I enjoy teaching here. What are your own experiences of teaching in Thailand? Did you also have issues with students using electronic gadgets in class?

The answer is No. Those electronic devices ( phones ) are forbidden, If they get caught with it during a lesson, the principal will keep it for at least a month. I do have issues with students, most of them do not obey. I warn them, 3 times, then I sent them ou of the classroom, if this did not help, I'll see that they end up at the principal's office. They do not smile any further.....

Other issues I have: talking in the classroom, walking, busy with other things than English, making loud noise, drumming, singing, lazy, rude, naughty and for sure: not paying attention. Now I try to have them in the classroom on time and I started to report kids who are absent more than 10 minutes without good reason.

Sure, I have "dek dee" ( I reward them well when everybody is looking ) and also slow students who really want. But in most classes, there are a few who like to mess up a lesson. Every grade has a "better class" ( never any trouble ) and it is adviseable write a different lessonplan for them.

Thai teachers maintain order with a huge stick. I as farang I do not use it. I never hit my own kids, and certainly not other mans kids!

Edited December 29, 2013 by navara

[White Tiger]

..... But all students have discipline issues – for example, they come to class late, they will get up and walk around during a lesson, they will use mobile phones and tablets in class, they will wear ear-phones/plugs and listen to music (I presume) during lessons, & they will do homework for another subject in class. The school tolerates this kind of behaviour so it can be frustrating sometimes.....

I'll be you 1000 baht that if you ask if its ok for kids to listen to music, use their i-pads, do other homework, in your class, they will say its NOT ok. How can they say that? So if you don't like that kindly inform the students you will take their electronic equipment off of them if they use it, until the end of the lesson. You need to get agreement about this with the admin. If they can't agree to this, they you will then know just how important the children's education is to the school. Of curse you can also integrate positive reinforcement with your measures as well....give points for well behaved students, etc.

The answer to that question will depend on who you ask. If you ask the students then they’ll probably say ‘yes’. If you ask the Thai head of department then I know he’ll say ‘Hmmm... it depends on what the students are using their electronic gadgets for. If they’re using them to look up English words then it’s Ok’. (I know that because he said it when I asked him). And of course that Thai teacher explanation is the way the school condones its policy of turning a blind eye.

As I said, the school tolerates the kind of behaviour I described, so I know already how important the education of the students is seen as being by the school. But I don’t tolerate this kind of behaviour in my classes and will often confiscate electronic equipment and Thai homework. But it’s a constant battle. I’ve found that many students are persistent offenders and eventually they stop coming to class rather than give up playing with their electronic devices. But you do need to be mindful of the way the students are using their gadgets, because on more than one occasion I’ve gone to take a tablet off a student and then as I’ve looked at the screen the student will indeed be looking up the Thai meaning of an English word. But I never hesitate to pull earphones out of ears.

Giving points for good behaviour etc – yes I do that already too. Not that many of the students seem to care. When students can’t be bothered coming to class they care even less about whether you give them credit for exhibiting good behaviours. Again, however, you need to be mindful of the school’s policies in this area. For example, last year the school asked me to award additional points to students according to ‘how much they loved the King’. How do you measure that? (The school couldn’t tell me the answer either).

Anyway I take the rough with the smooth and as I said in my first reply to the OP I enjoy teaching here. What are your own experiences of teaching in Thailand? Did you also have issues with students using electronic gadgets in class?

The answer is No. Those electronic devices ( phones ) are forbidden, If they get caught with it during a lesson, the principal will keep it for at least a month. I do have issues with students, most of them do not obey. I warn them, 3 times, then I sent them ou of the classroom, if this did not help, I'll see that they end up at the principal's office. They do not smile any further.....

Other issues I have: talking in the classroom, walking, busy with other things than English, making loud noise, drumming, singing, lazy, rude, naughty and for sure: not paying attention. Now I try to have them in the classroom on time and I started to report kids who are absent more than 10 minutes without good reason.

Sure, I have "dek dee" ( I reward them well when everybody is looking ) and also slow students who really want. But in most classes, there are a few who like to mess up a lesson. Every grade has a "better class" ( never any trouble ) and it is adviseable write a different lessonplan for them.

Thai teachers maintain order with a huge stick. I as farang I do not use it. I never hit my own kids, and certainly not other mans kids!

You're very lucky at your school. You clearly have a different policy to the schools at which I have taught. I've never heard before of a school director in Thailand being interested in getting involved in disciplining students. Normally they're far too busy with meetings and stuff to bother getting involved with the day to day student stuff.

When something serious goes wrong at the school where I currently teach, and it's decided students need to be punished, it tends to be the PE teachers and the army cadet teachers who handle it - in the morning at assembly and in front of the whole school. But as I said, using electronic gadgets is tolerated by the school so that won't even give rise to a good telling off from the Thai staff. In the past the Thai staff have even told me to 'not be so serious' when I've reported this. So as I said this is one of the frustrations for me of teaching in Thailand.

Glad to hear you don't use the stick. Neither do I.

Thanks for sharing :-)

[zeichen]

Seems to me that the majority of problems you teachers face are because you haven't had proper training. If you either studied Education in school or at the very least kept current, you might not have those issues.

classroom management, an interactive approach in the classroom, well designed lesson plans, scaffolded lessons, and a few strategies to change up lessons if they are not effective, and realizing that you need your students as much as they don't need you. Stop thinking that you are the center of their learning.

One reocurring thing that I hear from this thread could be solved with learning how to impliment technology in the classroom. Since students are listening to music, put that in the lesson. Create activities that follow the curriculum that use music, games. "Bus Stop" create activities for them to explore things on 5 different tables *put a large piece of paper on each (whatever new vocabulary, grammar, concept, idea you want them to explore/discuss/know. Put them in groups and have them look at pictures, sentences in the wrong order cut out, etc. have them write, ask questions, or arrange things, Then after 3-5 min, have them go to the next table and add to whatever the other group just did. Building off their ideas. They can even write questions challenging what others wrote.) Then put each separate sheet on the front board and explore what each other came to. Facilitate and stop standing in front of the class.

If I need to lecture/present new material, even with a power point, I am walking around the room constantly. I do not stand in front of the class for more than 30 seconds a period, knowing every students name and engaging them constantly helps to.

Another thing to realize is that you represent "the English speaking world" if the students have a bad experience in your class, it will hinder their desire for learning all foreign languages and their desire to be with or communicate with foreigners. So yes, I agree with directors, you should not be taking away their technology, sending them out of class, and making them enjoy the entire time they have class with you. As long as their is a skill attached to everything that you do, a proper assessment, outcome and goal of every project you have them do, they will learn and find it worthwhile. Speaking English isn't and shouldn't be the only "goal" of taking an English class.

Watch TED TALKS, there is one on how we hinder children's creativity. My guess is most of those complaining of discipline problems, probably don't know the goal of education. If you think that learning facts, and knowing things is why we go to school, you are in the wrong profession.

It is clear that everyone posting has the heart in the right place, but it is also clear that the majority of problems being faced are not issues for veteran teachers with the theoretical knowledge of best teaching practices to back it up. I am not saying we don't have bad days also, but having clear objectives outlined on your board, letting the students know before they are assessed what criteria they are being assessed on, allowing their imput on what to learn, or what activity/project would help them the most, will turn a lot of these problems around.

I am a very energetic teacher, and have a naturally deep and loud voice, if students fall asleep in my class, they must be exhausted. English and other languages are quite boring to learn, they aren't practical if you don't achieve a certain level. So it is hard for them to see putting in effort day after day for no results. People also lack motivation when the result is a long term goal for when they are older. Math is another subject that is very hard to teach effectively, however since so many see and fully accept the use of math, they tend to work harder. Making tangible practical goals each lesson, showing them they progress, making it interactive and just plain fun will turn their motivation around.

[puukao]

I have taught outside of Thailand with a TESOL certification, but have talked to a number of teachers within LOS. My thoughts are as follows:

1. If you don't rely on teaching money, you enjoy it more

2. If you are teaching because you love teaching, not simply bored, you will enjoy it more

3. If you really love Thailand and not here for girls or cheap lodging, you will enjoy it more

etc..

I have also talked to the bored backpacker who hates teaching but enjoys the money before he is fired. I think he was drunk when I was talking to him, noon on a Tuesday.

[navara]

Seems to me that the majority of problems you teachers face are because you haven't had proper training. If you either studied Education in school or at the very least kept current, you might not have those issues.

classroom management, an interactive approach in the classroom, well designed lesson plans, scaffolded lessons, and a few strategies to change up lessons if they are not effective, and realizing that you need your students as much as they don't need you. Stop thinking that you are the center of their learning.

One reocurring thing that I hear from this thread could be solved with learning how to impliment technology in the classroom. Since students are listening to music, put that in the lesson. Create activities that follow the curriculum that use music, games. "Bus Stop" create activities for them to explore things on 5 different tables *put a large piece of paper on each (whatever new vocabulary, grammar, concept, idea you want them to explore/discuss/know. Put them in groups and have them look at pictures, sentences in the wrong order cut out, etc. have them write, ask questions, or arrange things, Then after 3-5 min, have them go to the next table and add to whatever the other group just did. Building off their ideas. They can even write questions challenging what others wrote.) Then put each separate sheet on the front board and explore what each other came to. Facilitate and stop standing in front of the class.

If I need to lecture/present new material, even with a power point, I am walking around the room constantly. I do not stand in front of the class for more than 30 seconds a period, knowing every students name and engaging them constantly helps to.

Another thing to realize is that you represent "the English speaking world" if the students have a bad experience in your class, it will hinder their desire for learning all foreign languages and their desire to be with or communicate with foreigners. So yes, I agree with directors, you should not be taking away their technology, sending them out of class, and making them enjoy the entire time they have class with you. As long as their is a skill attached to everything that you do, a proper assessment, outcome and goal of every project you have them do, they will learn and find it worthwhile. Speaking English isn't and shouldn't be the only "goal" of taking an English class.

Watch TED TALKS, there is one on how we hinder children's creativity. My guess is most of those complaining of discipline problems, probably don't know the goal of education. If you think that learning facts, and knowing things is why we go to school, you are in the wrong profession.

It is clear that everyone posting has the heart in the right place, but it is also clear that the majority of problems being faced are not issues for veteran teachers with the theoretical knowledge of best teaching practices to back it up. I am not saying we don't have bad days also, but having clear objectives outlined on your board, letting the students know before they are assessed what criteria they are being assessed on, allowing their imput on what to learn, or what activity/project would help them the most, will turn a lot of these problems around.

I am a very energetic teacher, and have a naturally deep and loud voice, if students fall asleep in my class, they must be exhausted. English and other languages are quite boring to learn, they aren't practical if you don't achieve a certain level. So it is hard for them to see putting in effort day after day for no results. People also lack motivation when the result is a long term goal for when they are older. Math is another subject that is very hard to teach effectively, however since so many see and fully accept the use of math, they tend to work harder. Making tangible practical goals each lesson, showing them they progress, making it interactive and just plain fun will turn their motivation around.

Hello Zeichen,

Yes, many things you wrote are true. But there's a "but". If your classes are motivated, even it was just a little bit. All those techniques you mentioned will work. If you teach on a secondary school you might have more chance to succeed. Sure, I have been teaching grade 7 until 12.

Most primary schools in rural areas have less or not at all motivated kids. My idea is to win there hearts as a parent, show them that you care about them and try not to be that "alien".

Hallo Puukao,

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Unfortually most teachers came with a different idea to Thailand. Get the money to finiance there lifes. I do not judge them, because you simply need some cash to live right? And sure.... every guy has big brains and small brains. It will not say those people teach without any pleasure. I guess I am an exceptional case, I teach for my pleasure ( sometimes it is really hard ) but most of all for my face and the face of my wife. The little compensation I receive, I use to buy some parts for my truck. I wanted to do something usefull with my spare time. ( instead of drinking beer and chasing women ;-) )

But who ever you are, what intentons you have to teach, there are days that you are really <deleted>*p about it.

[zeichen]

"Most primary schools in rural areas have less or not at all motivated kids."

I really don't fully understand this. Teacher's job is to provide the motivation. There is no way that I have just been lucky for the past 15 years of teaching. I have taught rich kids, poor kids, city and rural, large classes with 50+, small classes with less than 10, I have taught students with 0 ability and near natives.

Creating an environment of mutual respect, trust and fun is very important early on. Routines and structure are very important in your first few days of building a rapport with students.

Also for those commending themselves on not practicing corporal punishment, so what. If you are not doing something to stop it, you are as guilty as those that do it. It is against Thai law to hit kids. If you are seeing it happen, you should take photos, have them arrested and fired. Unless the stick is just for intimidation. If a kids has a bruise from a teacher, that teacher should be fired. *I have created workshops and training for Thai teachers to show them better/more effective methods of control. I have written policies and guides for teachers at my schools that administration has supported. If you show people how to protect themselves, they will most likely conform to the laws. One school I worked out banned students from having phones or cameras at the school, that was their solution to avoid lawsuits.

[celso]

Yes, it's a breeze dealing with Thai kids compared to Italians.

Although I do find it amazing how Thai students change so much... teach kids aged 7-9 and they are lively, funny, full of personality. Then teach teenagers 13-15 and its a room full of lazy zombies who only have two hobbies: smartphones and shopping. I haven't taught older teens yet.

I do find it funny how they allassume after a year teaching them, that I still cant speak any Thai

Edited December 30, 2013 by celso

[inutil]

Seems to me that the majority of problems you teachers face are because you haven't had proper training. If you either studied Education in school or at the very least kept current, you might not have those issues.

classroom management, an interactive approach in the classroom, well designed lesson plans, scaffolded lessons, and a few strategies to change up lessons if they are not effective, and realizing that you need your students as much as they don't need you. Stop thinking that you are the center of their learning.

One reocurring thing that I hear from this thread could be solved with learning how to impliment technology in the classroom. Since students are listening to music, put that in the lesson. Create activities that follow the curriculum that use music, games. "Bus Stop" create activities for them to explore things on 5 different tables *put a large piece of paper on each (whatever new vocabulary, grammar, concept, idea you want them to explore/discuss/know. Put them in groups and have them look at pictures, sentences in the wrong order cut out, etc. have them write, ask questions, or arrange things, Then after 3-5 min, have them go to the next table and add to whatever the other group just did. Building off their ideas. They can even write questions challenging what others wrote.) Then put each separate sheet on the front board and explore what each other came to. Facilitate and stop standing in front of the class.

If I need to lecture/present new material, even with a power point, I am walking around the room constantly. I do not stand in front of the class for more than 30 seconds a period, knowing every students name and engaging them constantly helps to.

Another thing to realize is that you represent "the English speaking world" if the students have a bad experience in your class, it will hinder their desire for learning all foreign languages and their desire to be with or communicate with foreigners. So yes, I agree with directors, you should not be taking away their technology, sending them out of class, and making them enjoy the entire time they have class with you. As long as their is a skill attached to everything that you do, a proper assessment, outcome and goal of every project you have them do, they will learn and find it worthwhile. Speaking English isn't and shouldn't be the only "goal" of taking an English class.

Watch TED TALKS, there is one on how we hinder children's creativity. My guess is most of those complaining of discipline problems, probably don't know the goal of education. If you think that learning facts, and knowing things is why we go to school, you are in the wrong profession.

It is clear that everyone posting has the heart in the right place, but it is also clear that the majority of problems being faced are not issues for veteran teachers with the theoretical knowledge of best teaching practices to back it up. I am not saying we don't have bad days also, but having clear objectives outlined on your board, letting the students know before they are assessed what criteria they are being assessed on, allowing their imput on what to learn, or what activity/project would help them the most, will turn a lot of these problems around.

I am a very energetic teacher, and have a naturally deep and loud voice, if students fall asleep in my class, they must be exhausted. English and other languages are quite boring to learn, they aren't practical if you don't achieve a certain level. So it is hard for them to see putting in effort day after day for no results. People also lack motivation when the result is a long term goal for when they are older. Math is another subject that is very hard to teach effectively, however since so many see and fully accept the use of math, they tend to work harder. Making tangible practical goals each lesson, showing them they progress, making it interactive and just plain fun will turn their motivation around.

Ah to be sure, youre not wrong. But lets me go a bit Turner to your waterlilies here. Its something that very very few people within it have chosen as a career. In fact, it has all the hallmarks of your classic summer job that you always planned to leave, but the pay was alright, the routine was nice, the people at work were a laugh and even though you kinda didnt like it all that much and found it a burden, well, there was always the weekend where you could forget about it.

There are a few of you skulking around i know who actually WANTED this for a career and work diligently at keeping up to date and trying your absolute best, but at a statistical figure plucked out of my kiester, id say you make up less than 5% of the western guys and girls out there. You make up much more of the non-western, or non-native english speakers of course. Because they understand the doors that English opened for them and they have a skill set of absolutely amazing practical advice and study techniques that they can pass on. They were motivated to learn their subect, they LOVE their subject. It stands to reason that if the opportunity and dispositon aligns, theyre going to want to teach the subject,

But the majority of english speaking natives? its a doss, a lark, something to do and see the world a bit. And most of us dont stick around anyway for longer than a gap year because, "hahaha! are you serious? career suicide! Two years max!" And true to their word, they go back home to be replaced by the next bunny caught in the headlight twenty or early thirty something. These make up the absolute brunt of the ESL conveyor belt teaching industry in Asia. "what? Someones going to pay me 3000US/month tax free because i have a degree in any subject at all and can speak my native tongue! AND i can spend my handsome vacations traveling around asia? Where the hell do i sign up for this?"

And then theres the lifers. The HARDCORE raiders of the ESL world! The biggest complainers out there. Well, some of them...

Some took to teaching. Maybe they couldnt teach in their home countries, or they could (as in a few of my US friends), but competition for jobs is a pain, so hey! asia! Maybe they just decided on a country change. They have their teaching qualifications, so why not see the world a bit at the same time and maybe one day bring this back to inspire their own students in kansas. They threw themselves into it as professionals and they love the job, they love the status, they love the self worth and those dudes... god i wish i was like them. Theyre HAPPY! By God! theyre actually LOVING their job despite its obvious frustrations and difficulties. And you know what, those dudes are climbing the ladder. Its that simple. Theyre interacting with their students, theyre putting in the extra time and effort working to become a valued, dependable and trustworthy member of staff. They are the vocational teachers! The ones who decorate their walls with loving care, who do the yearly 20km run with their students, and who make the classroom and learning environment awesome. Above all, they love their schools and the prospect that theyre making a genuine difference.

And then theres the teachers who got married and are trying to build a life here (or whichever country theyre in), and teachings whats available (at a not terrible salary), so teaching is what they do. They might not have quite the same enthusiasm as those above, but they want things to work, and if you want a career in this industry, experience in and of itself wont be enough. You need sustainability, you need to stay on top of your game. So you work hard and you do what you can so your kids can flourish.

And then theres the folks whove been doing this so long that they cant honestly figure a way to get out of it. They dont really want to be doing it, but they kinda overstayed the party a bit, and now theyre a bit too old for graduate jobs, (and a bit too jaded for a bottom rung job back at primark). Tragically, theyve accustomed themselves to a lifestyle thats... alright... and cant seem to find it within themselves to give it up to go work the checkout or sponge the dole for 6 months. They keep telling themselves theyre definitely going home after this year, but just kinda cant face it (because for every year they stay, the fear of returning a prospectless washed up thirty something is existentially terrifying.

Teaching, despite people often telling you otherwise is just in fact a job to them and not some kind of mystical calling. "Someone pays me to show up and dance, and i show up and dance." For these people, the kids are good fun, boisterous, noisy and a little poorly behaved, and just maybe theyre still nevertheless good at their jobs, but it doesnt inspire them and it doesnt instill in them a sense of purpose or joy. Its a job. Its mechanical and routine. Parts go in, hangover comes out. Maybe they cant believe their luck that someone would be stupid enough to keep them in gainful employment, or maybe, as i say, theyre just lost and lacking direction. Either way, they make up a heap of the lifers ive come across. Neither inspired nor unhappy. Content. Drifting. Delaying a decision they dont want to make, and riding their luck a bit until someone invariably makes the decision for them.

And then theres the final lifer subset: the guys who really shouldnt be near this industry. I meet a few of them on my travels, Theyre...not awfullll... human beings. But theyre not all there. And i cant for the life of me understand the desperation some recruiters must have when they hire these people. Surely they can see it!!!! But nope, and even if they do, fail in Japan? off to Korea; Fail in korea? off to Thailand; fail in Thailand? off to Cambodia! These are your classic 'running away from their problems' group. They dont make up very many of the people out there, but theyre the limpits of the ESL world. Youll be needing a crowbar to pry these bastards out of asia. And its probably because no matter how shitty their life is here they can always try and hide behind cultural difference as an explanation of their mad behaviour in the host population (which is why you often find them in the remote parts of the country where ne'er a farang exists). If they go back to the world where people can see through their shit clearly, theyll be checking out. And thats actually kinda sad, so the hate should stop on those human fuc_k ups.

The final group, unique to south east asia because the big three in asia all have strict and enforced laws, is the backpacker looking to prolong their stay a bit with some teaching on the side. I dont mind this dude. Some people forget that a lot of the goal of the job is to familiarise kids with foreigners and not feel intimidated using their broken english on them. More practice the better! It also allows them to take in more of the world. This weeks teacher might be their self intro on Ireland. They play a game in week 2 and then the next teacher comes to tell them all about Russia. One of my

schools im currently teaching at would actually LOVE this model to be honest! Theyre huge on the whole 'internationalization' thing.

Anyways, i didnt really mean to write a whole post of stereotypes, what i meant to write was this:

Your training in asia consists of this:

On the job training (what the hell worked!!!!!!???!?!?!? I think i will DO THAT AGAIN!!!)

Seminars where some schmuck from the above group chosen ENTIRELY on the basis of it being 'their turn', comes to tell you how to teach ("I dunno who thinks im an authority on anything, but er, this worked in my class! have you thought of trying this!)

One off talks from people trying to sell books like the Oxford Picture Dictionary who have NO IDEA AT ALL on how to sell the activities in the book, or worse, have no idea what a real classroom of bored kids will do to said activity.

Massive huge seminars (prefectural or even nation wide) where you all gather up for three days of socialising at a huge hotel in the capital and get plenty of advice on things like cooking, how to understand the mind of your chinese/korean/japanese co-teacher/neighbor. And then a few presentations where everyone is asked TO PRESENT how they would teach a class on x-topic to an imaginary class so we can all do exactly the same "I DONT KNOWWW!!! But have you tried this? this might work!!??!?!" active genki "fun" desperate activities. (obviously from 'presenters' following the classic "this worked before in a seminar i was at, ill fill the time with them doing group presentations!)

Oh, and we'll get one seminar on multiple learning styles and probably a lesson or two of the language taught in the most traditional boring rote method by a native actual teacher and also one "SUPER FUN" lesson taught entirely in Polish or something. And we all come back to school none the wiser and maybe with one or two plausible new activities we might have a crack at trying in the classroom.

Training and development is lackluster and dare i say it, a clusterfuc_k. If you want real training you have to pay for it im afraid. And so few people really want to make this a long term career. So its often blind leading the blind out here. And when youre kinda devoid of any motivation for the subject in the first place, that whole idea "do i really want to commit to a career in this industry or am i DEFINITELY going home THIS TIME when i have enough savings for retraining?" well, its a bit of a dilemma, im sure youll understand.

Edited December 30, 2013 by inutil

[onlycw]

Well, SlyAnimal has put it well and I would like to second him.

At a new high school, I teach M3, M5 and M6 classes. TBH, there are only 3 really good classes. In all others, I have been quite unsuccessful in getting them to speak English to each other. Me doing most of the talking and having one-on-one conversation doesn't cut it. So I'll keep pushing for them to speak to each other and do group work etc.

Anger and annoyance with admin is a big thing. Take the way they add a 5-digit amount payable by us and days being off on some Visa runs and you get the picture. Can't say they care! Some schools have been laying off their foreign teachers, then not hired replacements. Why's that, you think?

Last week in Vientiane, I met many a teacher who couldn't get his B-Visa due to some small errors by their schools' administrators. The wrong month, addressing the ambassador incorrectly, whatever.

Being middle aged, I enjoy interacting with students and try hard to be friendly, approachable and to motivate them to speak. (Many still literally run away when a foreigner says "good morning"). During gate duty, I try to engage many students in small talk, sensing that those who respond feel a real sense of success when they say what they had for breakfast!

^^^

The usual once a week lesson doesn't cut it. But then, a teacher named Steve Forrester's interview with Ajarn.com shows how admin feels about foreigners being at the schools. TBH, I'm fairly certain Thais would rather have none of us there!

Our existence here is precarious and uncertain. Many are on their 2nd waiver. Those with kids to support might find greener pastures elsewhere (one teacher shared how he earned > 50 k Baht in China, teaching just 11 lessons per week). Then there are contracts like mine, ending in February. Students really need to trust a foreign teacher to open up and interact in English. Staying some years at a school would be nice. Alas, this seems to run contrary to what directors want, for whatever reasons.

[navara]

Well, SlyAnimal has put it well and I would like to second him.

At a new high school, I teach M3, M5 and M6 classes. TBH, there are only 3 really good classes. In all others, I have been quite unsuccessful in getting them to speak English to each other. Me doing most of the talking and having one-on-one conversation doesn't cut it. So I'll keep pushing for them to speak to each other and do group work etc.

Anger and annoyance with admin is a big thing. Take the way they add a 5-digit amount payable by us and days being off on some Visa runs and you get the picture. Can't say they care! Some schools have been laying off their foreign teachers, then not hired replacements. Why's that, you think?

Last week in Vientiane, I met many a teacher who couldn't get his B-Visa due to some small errors by their schools' administrators. The wrong month, addressing the ambassador incorrectly, whatever.

Being middle aged, I enjoy interacting with students and try hard to be friendly, approachable and to motivate them to speak. (Many still literally run away when a foreigner says "good morning"). During gate duty, I try to engage many students in small talk, sensing that those who respond feel a real sense of success when they say what they had for breakfast!

^^^

The usual once a week lesson doesn't cut it. But then, a teacher named Steve Forrester's interview with Ajarn.com shows how admin feels about foreigners being at the schools. TBH, I'm fairly certain Thais would rather have none of us there!

Our existence here is precarious and uncertain. Many are on their 2nd waiver. Those with kids to support might find greener pastures elsewhere (one teacher shared how he earned > 50 k Baht in China, teaching just 11 lessons per week). Then there are contracts like mine, ending in February. Students really need to trust a foreign teacher to open up and interact in English. Staying some years at a school would be nice. Alas, this seems to run contrary to what directors want, for whatever reasons.

I am sorry to read this, but I know that it is often true. A fresh USA teacher came to teach at the high school, not far from my home. Nobody helped him, the accomodation was like a pig stable and for weeks he stayed alone in his house. After 3 weeks he simply left, did not took any money, sold his phantom to the shop where he bought it. Goodbye.

You may fill in what I think.

One conclusion; IF Thailand seriously choose to upgrade there standard, they should start with teaching admin and teachers HOW to behave towards foreign teachers.

Lucky not all schools behave like this.

[navara]

"Most primary schools in rural areas have less or not at all motivated kids."

I really don't fully understand this. Teacher's job is to provide the motivation. There is no way that I have just been lucky for the past 15 years of teaching. I have taught rich kids, poor kids, city and rural, large classes with 50+, small classes with less than 10, I have taught students with 0 ability and near natives.

Creating an environment of mutual respect, trust and fun is very important early on. Routines and structure are very important in your first few days of building a rapport with students.

Also for those commending themselves on not practicing corporal punishment, so what. If you are not doing something to stop it, you are as guilty as those that do it. It is against Thai law to hit kids. If you are seeing it happen, you should take photos, have them arrested and fired. Unless the stick is just for intimidation. If a kids has a bruise from a teacher, that teacher should be fired. *I have created workshops and training for Thai teachers to show them better/more effective methods of control. I have written policies and guides for teachers at my schools that administration has supported. If you show people how to protect themselves, they will most likely conform to the laws. One school I worked out banned students from having phones or cameras at the school, that was their solution to avoid lawsuits.

I reply a bit late, sorry for this.

90% of my students are farmer kids. Nice kids, nothing wrong with it. BUT, the parents are very low educated, they do not care what there children learn. Many of them are poor, very poor. There is absolute no stimulation from home. The parents aspect the teachers to solve there problems. However, the Thai system say that the kids should be happy, not smart. Many can not read or write Thai, so what should we do with stupid English? On the local people is English know as useless, stupid, waste of your time, etc.

WHAT should we do? Your teaching techniques from Europe, USA or whatever simply doesn't work.

IF they like you.... you might have a chance.

I'm going to print pictures tonight and try to make them understand and speak. ;-) 5555 See the fun of it, it saves stress.

[expat888]

My biggest problem is finding a school where I can teach the whole English program. Most of what I have come across are conversation jobs where the Thai teachers teach the grammar. This is a nightmare. The Thai teacher gets the students several times a week and destroys all my efforts with their horrible English where I get them only once a week. Thai students get more exposure from the Thai teacher and follow her speaking. I am taking 1 step forward and then 3 steps back. Of course, the Thai teacher's English is flawless in her opinion and the students could never question her ability.

Second biggest problem is Co-Thai Teachers are completely useless. I have come to the opinion that they are there only to report on what you are doing in class. No matter how good you teach, as a foreigner, it's never good enough. I would much rather teach a class alone and not have the constant distraction of the Thai teacher having conversations with the students in Thai while I'm trying to teach, which makes the focus on Thai instead of English.

Not to be completely negative, I do enjoy the relationships that are created with the students. Some of them can be quite fun to converse with.

Just my 2 bits.

Edited January 2, 2014 by expat888

[bundoi]

I think you are confusing being anti-Thai with wishing for a better working environment. It is work. It is a profession. Most teachers wish the students would learn better, quicker or more efficiently. If they speak well; we wish they could read better; if they read well, we wish they write better. It's what people who work do. They complain, they fine tune and then they go implement what they think will help.

Sometimes, when life gets stressful, we go on an internet discussion board and just bitch a little.

I'm not confusing those two things at all; any impartial review of this or any other TV subforum will show a huge racist content; principally directed at Thais, but also Phillipinos, Russian speakers...it truly sickens me.

And anyone who expects any given profession to be the same as back home is demonstrating a remarkable lack of professionalism and life experience.

[Ruin]

Anyone teach in private or international schools? Is there a big difference in the educational environment?

[navara]

My biggest problem is finding a school where I can teach the whole English program. Most of what I have come across are conversation jobs where the Thai teachers teach the grammar. This is a nightmare. The Thai teacher gets the students several times a week and destroys all my efforts with their horrible English where I get them only once a week. Thai students get more exposure from the Thai teacher and follow her speaking. I am taking 1 step forward and then 3 steps back. Of course, the Thai teacher's English is flawless in her opinion and the students could never question her ability.

Second biggest problem is Co-Thai Teachers are completely useless. I have come to the opinion that they are there only to report on what you are doing in class. No matter how good you teach, as a foreigner, it's never good enough. I would much rather teach a class alone and not have the constant distraction of the Thai teacher having conversations with the students in Thai while I'm trying to teach, which makes the focus on Thai instead of English.

Not to be completely negative, I do enjoy the relationships that are created with the students. Some of them can be quite fun to converse with.

Just my 2 bits.

Hello expat888,

I think we teachers are only invited to assist. The major players are always Thai teachers. You should have your own private school if you can't stand this. I have understood that the quality of Thai teachers with a major in English is pretty okay, when you mentioned the grammar. Often they are better than I am. The spoken word is indeed worse and understandable English an absoluut problem. What you can do is assist the Thai teachers, without offending them. Be carefull, Thai used to have very long toes. 555

I can recognize easily if a Thai teacher was taught by farangs or by Thai. English is not a popular subject in Thailand. Infact you must be stupid to choose so. Difficult to have your promotions and very difficult to gain any progress.

I read you have an assistant. I have understood that the assistant should help you with your lessons, not to check on you. I believe you have to use his/her Thai quality, which is very important when you can not speak Thai well. It save you lot's of teaching time and seaching for a teacher to help you out. I wish I had one. You should forbid the assistant to talk with the students, this is an English class, not a Thai ballroom.

Thank you for your reaction.

[navara]

Anyone teach in private or international schools? Is there a big difference in the educational environment?

Paradise they say. 50k/month. Smart and diligent kids. Aircon in the class. A friend of mine get 100k/month. The question is, what are you doing here? Make big bucks or teach English to the ones who need it the most?

[navara]

I stayed for two whole months in Thailand teaching (6 months in total). Im trying to decide what was the tipping point?

Teaching definitely played a part in it, but heres the rundown of things that made me leave:

1. The pay. Sorry. I know. But i can teach anywhere else in Asia. Ive got plenty of experience and more importantly, no real ambition or desire for a high salary. Im also rather employable once you see me in person. I dont need great pay, i just need enough to live on and send money home for the next time i get itchy feet and need to whole sale up sticks and move. The pay is awful.

2. The climate was horrendous (im a pale blue scotsman - its not for me ). Its not the heat, its the wetness. I was there from april to early october. So obviously i got the brunt of rainy season. But when it wasnt raining, it was humid, I lived in an apartment with a fan... and a bed. I would have furnished it out but i didnt even move into it until mid june, by then i was gagging for a pay cheque and then by the end of june id already made my decision to leave anyway.

3. The speaking test: I did a speaking/reading test with a p4 text book on P4-M3 students. I did initially try to use the grade below them to keep it easy, but i kept having to go lower down the grades until i found a happy and comfortable blind text they could handle. I found it at the start of the P4 textbook. This is my sister, her name is... she is... she likes etc. The reading test had my jaw on the floor, but the speaking component (very VERY simple questions) just had me wondering what theyd done for the last 6 or so years of their english classes. Some people might rise to the challenge and look at it as a fabulous opportunity to go back to basics. Im afraid i thought "Run!"

4. Because in conjunction with the INCREDIBLY low level the classes were an hour long. With just me. Im used to at least a disinterested co-teacher doing marking and occasionally piping up to tell them to shut up and stop running around. But by week 3 i was having 'quiet (INEFFECTIVE) chats with several students/lesson outside the classroom. And upon occasion actually blowing up at them. I know, youd have done it better, but in my defence, my teaching experience was japan (where im not the main teacher - and even when i am, theres always a very active coteacher with you, and korea where the coteacher is there (against their will usually and by the dictates of the vice principal), but still keeps the kids in line. Coming into Thailand was like being dropped into the deep end of the shark pool for classroom management. The kids have very little understanding of English. They treat your class as a fun game. Theyre super sweet, but my god, the attention span! And its an HOUR LONG!!! Jesus, im bored 10 minutes into a pimsleur lesson. And thats predominantly in my home language.

5. My crappy Mifi internet. An 8gb cap at max. I go through that in less than a few days. And if it rains, say goodbye!

6. And rural thailand is BOOOOOOORRRRIIIIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGGG as hell! People are nice, but its boring as hell.

7. The work permit. Im (potentially) legal. I have all my documents. So why on earth is this process so unfeasible long? Why am i constantly chasing people up to get this done. And why, when it is almost done, am i the one responsible for completing the bureaucratic stage? Arent i being employed by someone? Why is the employee doing all the legwork here for legality? Isnt this something the person sponsoring your visa should be doing? Eugh! Again, asian expectations. Japan and Korea both created the expectation that someone else would be taking care of my paperwork. My bad. But even then its still taking FOREVER!!! I took the job at the start of april. I assumed we'd start the process immediately. As the first visa run arrived around the second week of may, i asked how we were getting on. We hadnt started. They needed to wait for schools to come back. As the second visa run came, because I hadnt started the job yet (point 8 now i think about it) no one had come to the school yet to get the signature. At the third run? Ah yes, we'll send someone next week. At the fourth... oh, that was just the first step, we'll get the docs together and send them all out to you and then you need to do another visa run because you need to have x-days left on your tourist visa to begin the process and then...

8. Why did my job start in June? The term started in mid may, the kids were at school in mid may. You requested i move to Trat in the second week of may. So why am i just meeting people then spending the next 3 weeks stuck at home without a pay cheque?

9. By "at home" i of course mean at a hotel. Since the subsidized apartment the school had set up (see above - fan/bed), had the former ANGRY teacher in it who refused to leave because "he had a contract with the school for the apartment". I moved in a month later.

10. Ants. I never used to hate ants until i moved to Trat.

11. Visa runs. I should have just done the tourist visa run. But i was broke and didnt fancy it. Plus as point 7, i honestly didnt know it would take so long. I figured those 15 days would be enough THIS TIME to get it done. But Hat lek/Cham Yaem is a hole. The cambodian mafia there are just so nasty to deal with. And i had to do it no less than 6 times. Including throwing caution to the wind by giving them my passport for 4 days while they did the Phnom Penh tourist visa run so i could do my TEFL on Koh Samui without another visa run.

Special bonus mention:

12. The Golden Orbweaver spider that slowly descended from a tree onto my back whilst i was taking pictures of one of its brothers (luckily seen out of the corner of my eye)! YUUUUUUUUUUUKKKK!!! right out of the darkest hell of my fears.

I dunno. A litany of things that bothered me. Not all education. In fact only really a few of them were education. The kids are adorable for sure. The schedule was alright (18 classes per week). But in korea the job was really satisfying, whilst the lifestyle was okay. And in Japan, the lifestyle was awesome (whilst the job was alright), when you have both the lifestyle and the job not working it can be hard to justify sticking around. If the classes were 45 minutes or there was a coteacher, i might have stuck around. Hell, if id have done my tefl before i might have had another try at it.

I dunno if ive written it off entirely. I think its just the wrong time in all honesty. I made the decision to go there at a time when id just lost my job in japan (company lost contract to lower bid by interac is what i tell myself), and the notice time frame (20 days), was too short to not appear absolutely desperate/terrified to find something else in time. So came here to buy time and see if i liked it. I didnt to be honest. But i think with a bit of savings in the bank to pay for the move/set up and enough for a rainy day, i could have done it with a bit less worry about the future and having the means to escape should i require it. So if i come back, itll be because i miss it and want to be here instead of doing it because i hit a dodgy patch of luck and needed to ride it out. And theres enough reasons that you could enjoy thailand to make the complaints seem as trivial as they genuinely are. Plus im solo teaching in china right now, so hooray for classroom management skills!

In fact I agree with many points. I can fill in a few more if you like ;-). I guess it a "love thing".

Many years a go I have decided to live in Thailand. I fell in love with the country, even it has many major negative things. I started to teach English, while I am a designer/constructor/decorator. I believe that I was needed and I needed to do something about it.

I have my respect and gratitude. I have my place in the community. I lunch with the major.

I do not have a normal payment, because there is any. I have no aircon. I have almost no help. I have to speak Thai. I buy my own materials, no refund. And every hour/day that the school decided to do something "usefull" there is no financial compensation. I must be crazy.

But when my wife and I take a walk over the market and run into some little ones, it is so cute. Today my wife goes to the hairdo, I meet her in the shop. Waiting and talking with the hairdresser, a student of mine enter the shop. "hoey! khun mee look mai" 555 and the student give quickly a wai and shy as she became, went to the back. We all laugh and I tell mea that her daughter is "dek dee". She is proud.

Edited January 2, 2014 by navara

[inutil]

Im not going to tell you to lose your motivation. Its exactly in the right place. But on a similar theme to an earlier post, i dont think that people should have to choose between a vocational career for the love of it, or a career you hate for the money. Teaching should be well paid. I mean of course *Real teaching* from genuinely motivated, and professional teachers. Not backpacking ESL teaching from chancers looking for a graduate gig to ride out a recession. Real teaching should be well paid, and individuals should be paying their taxes to invest in their offspring because its the absolutely right thing to do.You should be paid what you deserve and you shouldnt have to do it solely for the love of it. You should be doing a job you clearly love AND being reqarded for your effort.

This doesnt put me (self-interested and non-charitable) and you (kind and charitable) against each other as professionals. I want paid for what i do. And if i had the same work ethic as you (i dont) then theres plenty of money out there in the world to pay me (or rather, you), what i am (or rather, you are) worth. People shouldnt be in love with this whole 'vocational' thing. its a job. If its a job that needs to be done, then people should be paying for it. Its like the debates twenty years ago when people had the cheek to argue that nurses shouldnt be given a pay raise in line with the cost of living because its some kind of mystical calling and they should somehow sacrifice their lives for the sake of other people. Thats what a nurse is, right? Wrong! its a job. You need my sister cleaning your arse or generally stopping you from dying, then you should pay her a liveable (and frankly above livable because its an ESSENTIAL job in society with never enough people wanting to do it) wage. Dont play on her good nature twice. Not only has she chosen that for a career and sacrificed a great deal of other choices to help others, she shouldnt then be told that she should shoulder a shit wage on top of it. Thats outrageous. If theres money, you pay people. And if you cant raise money, then you stick the reductions on a manifesto and see how many people agree with you in an election.

[navara]

Im not going to tell you to lose your motivation. Its exactly in the right place. But on a similar theme to an earlier post, i dont think that people should have to choose between a vocational career for the love of it, or a career you hate for the money. Teaching should be well paid. I mean of course *Real teaching* from genuinely motivated, and professional teachers. Not backpacking ESL teaching from chancers looking for a graduate gig to ride out a recession. Real teaching should be well paid, and individuals should be paying their taxes to invest in their offspring because its the absolutely right thing to do.You should be paid what you deserve and you shouldnt have to do it solely for the love of it. You should be doing a job you clearly love AND being reqarded for your effort.

This doesnt put me (self-interested and non-charitable) and you (kind and charitable) against each other as professionals. I want paid for what i do. And if i had the same work ethic as you (i dont) then theres plenty of money out there in the world to pay me (or rather, you), what i am (or rather, you are) worth. People shouldnt be in love with this whole 'vocational' thing. its a job. If its a job that needs to be done, then people should be paying for it. Its like the debates twenty years ago when people had the cheek to argue that nurses shouldnt be given a pay raise in line with the cost of living because its some kind of mystical calling and they should somehow sacrifice their lives for the sake of other people. Thats what a nurse is, right? Wrong! its a job. You need my sister cleaning your arse or generally stopping you from dying, then you should pay her a liveable (and frankly above livable because its an ESSENTIAL job in society with never enough people wanting to do it) wage. Dont play on her good nature twice. Not only has she chosen that for a career and sacrificed a great deal of other choices to help others, she shouldnt then be told that she should shoulder a shit wage on top of it. Thats outrageous. If theres money, you pay people. And if you cant raise money, then you stick the reductions on a manifesto and see how many people agree with you in an election.

Sure, job is a job. It should be paid.

What if there is no money to pay? You might not know that the Thai policy is that ONLY schools within the city can ask for funds. Schools outside the city area get zero. I tell yah the truth: there is a high school with an English program. They offer 34k for 22 hours. The primary schools offer: 10k and 5k or for free. All high schools outside the city area offer only for free.

So what is this? Class education?

The real problems are not with those fancy schools in the big city, not to mention the private schools. The biggest population is outside the city, the rual area. Those kids needed help the most. Tell the Thai government. They are in need for 50.000 English teachers, but they refuse to give any money. Do you think those farang teachers are as stupid as I am? I don't think so. They need a true job, with payment.

[inutil]

Truthfully in this case, thailand has money. I dont set its legislative programme. Thats for thai people to decide at the ballot box. But its not hurting for cash. We arent talking a war zone (well...) here. If people can afford to send their kids to private language schools to a point that theres a massive industry that pays MORE than the wage for a government school teacher because demand is clearly so high for teachers, then it can afford to pay for mainstream education. And if it chooses not to then im not going to indulge it by offering my services below market rate out of a feeling that someone should at least try and fix their (chosen) problems. I think its a national scandal that one of my coteachers (a brilliant teacher) said she could be earning far more money working in the tourism industry like her friends than working as an English teacher in Rural Thailand. Should the day dawn when she has had enough of teaching and does exactly that, then thailand just lost an amazingly hard working vocational teacher.

Again though, thats something for the thai people to decide on. This isnt Laos or even cambodia. Thailands pretty well off to be fair. That they decide to prioritise that money in private industry and very low taxes, thats for them to choose. If they think that rural education isnt important then they can remain eternally shocked when populist parties focusing on QoL improvements to rural thailand romp home in elections. Maybe they can strip them of the franchise or something, (well, until they find a way to make their vote count for less through scaled boundary changes and 'reforms')... again, thats the choice the thai people get to make for themselves.

Edited January 3, 2014 by inutil