The Proof Is In The Pudding

[Kerryd]

As I have mentioned in other threads, a few times, one of the reasons things appear to be so bad in Pattaya is the narrow focus of the media, and how it generally concerns itself with matters involving farangs.

Add to that that farangs are generally only interested in news that involve other farangs.

I mentioned in the thread about the Brit who was recently shot. If that had been a Thai man, we probably wouldn't have heard about it (on Thai Visa), and wouldn't have discussed it a such length.

How many of you have heard about the Thai woman recently murdered (possibly by her Thai boyfriend) ? It was in the news yesterday, but apparently not worthy of mention on TV. Why not ?

Because it didn't involve a farang.

The woman who was found murdered today may get mentioned here, because it is possible that she was murdered by a farang.

If that story is posted, it will receive lots of posts from people speculating on the various aspects of the crime. (The news story mentioned she was married to an Englishman, but went on to say she had gone to a short time room "with a young man who appeared to have come from a bar"). Didn't say if he was farang, but one can assume.

Sensational story if it involves a farang. People will be jumping up and down, screaming about how things are getting out of hand in Pattaya and crime is rampant.

How ever, if the suspect turns out to be a Thai man, this becomes just another ordinary, easily forgotten event.

The point is, what we see and hear most, is events that involve farangs. That is what most of you are interested in. That is what the media feeds you. That is why it seems like things are so bad, because that's ALL you get.

Start mixing in stories that involve only Thais and it will dilute the amount of farang news we see/hear. Add a few more feel good/general interest stories and suddenly the farang news is only making up a small percentage of the overall news. Suddenly it doesn't seem as bad.

Wow. A Thai guy that lives in my building was robbed and struck with a baseball bat the other night while working his shift at the reception desk of a nearby hotel ! I saw him with the bandaging on his head, but never knew what happened.

No farangs involved though, making it not worthy of discussion here.

What about the story of the 9 year old girl that was raped during Songkran ? Didn't hear about it ? No surprise. Her attacker was apparently a Thai boy aged 14 or 15.

No farangs involved though, making it not worthy of discussion here.

The crazy buffalo running around Nongprue ? Caused a little bit of damage and injured an elderly Thai woman.

No farangs involved though, making it not worthy of discussion here.

Did you know Pattaya was hosting a major Table Tennis Competition here this weekend ? Probably not. Not enough blood and guts to make it newsworthy, and once again, No farangs involved though, making it not worthy of discussion here.

See what I mean ? I could add a whack more stories in here, that have occurred in the last few days, that don't involve farangs.

Start adding in all the other things that happen here (good and bad) and the stuff that involves farangs becomes only a small part of the overall news. Suddenly the perspective changes from the point where it seems everything only happens to farangs, to the point where you realize things aren't that bad after all.

[lamphun]

I don't think you quite get it. If news about Pattaya were to include all the murders, bashings and general mayhem among the Thai side of the population we'd be inundated with crime stories. I doubt Pattaya would ever recover.

[kurgen]

A major table tennis tournament

WOW

post pics , please

[Simbo]

Don't you think there is enough trouble in Pattaya without involving Thais. Heaven forbid !

[Kerryd]

I don't think you quite get it. If news about Pattaya were to include all the murders, bashings and general mayhem among the Thai side of the population we'd be inundated with crime stories. I doubt Pattaya would ever recover.

Ahhhh, but most (if not all) the attention here (Thai Visa) is focused on events involving farangs. That is what makes it seem so bad to those that don't see the big picture. To them, it seems that all the crime and mayhem is directed at/involves farangs. It seems only farangs get whacked, jump from balconies, get busted with drugs and so on.

By showing other stories, these people can maybe get the impression that it isn't all about farangs. The reality is, stories involving farangs are only a small part of the daily/weekly news. Showing a broader range of stories (good and bad) would make people realize that farangs aren't the exclusive target of every criminal in Thailand. They might realize that farangs are no more or less the target of criminals than anyone else.

The way things get reported (or not reported) now, it can make some people think only bad things happen to farangs here, which is far from the truth.

[Kerryd]

A major table tennis tournament

WOW

post pics , please

I'm sure our 1st class local news outlets will be clambering over each other in their efforts to get exclusive photos and stories from the event.

It would help if some 70 year old geezer would drop dead during the competition, while his 22 year old girfriend weeps at his side.

[Prakanong2005]

Of course most of it on here is focused on Farang events and not Thai - if it is an exceptional case then yes maybe Thai.

As for the woman killed - you assumed completely differently from me - I straight away assumed Thai boy bar??

Shows how the same words can have easily diametrically opposed assumptions - and this is not either of us reading the words wrong as is so often the case on here

[Kerryd]

Of course most of it on here is focused on Farang events and not Thai - if it is an exceptional case then yes maybe Thai.

As for the woman killed - you assumed completely differently from me - I straight away assumed Thai boy bar??

Shows how the same words can have easily diametrically opposed assumptions - and this is not either of us reading the words wrong as is so often the case on here

Exactly. Part of the problem is the lack of details in the original report. One thing I did find odd was that it appeared her killer also stole various items from her, but they didn't go into detail about what items. That doesn't sound like the actions of a farang to me.

Do married Thai women pick up Thai boys in bars for short-time ?

[ZZZ]

Lets put it in the big picture then.

The worst murder city in the US is Detroit with about 40 murders per 100,000 population per year.

Most of the murders reported in the English Pattaya press is about falangs living in Pattaya or Jomtien, or participate in the nightlife there. Nobody knows how many that would be but say 10,000 on any given day.

That means that to beat Detroit we need to see more than 4 farang murders per year or 1 murder every 3 months.

So what's the verdict?

[Prakanong2005]

"Do married Thai women pick up Thai boys in bars for short-time ?"

Oh yes - I have seen it myself.

I have also seen bar girls bidding on boys - I have sat there and been open gobbed the first time ;-)

Sorry must get back to the cup final - its good today ;-)

Edited May 13, 2006 by Prakanong2005

[britmaveric]

I don't think you quite get it. If news about Pattaya were to include all the murders, bashings and general mayhem among the Thai side of the population we'd be inundated with crime stories. I doubt Pattaya would ever recover.

Replace Patters with Thailand and I think you have it right mate!

Edited May 13, 2006 by britmaveric

[Kerryd]

Lets put it in the big picture then.

The worst murder city in the US is Detroit with about 40 murders per 100,000 population per year.

You're making me work too early in the morning. I just went back to the FBI's stats page. Detroit recorded 170 murders in 2005, with a population estimated at 900,000 (or about 19 per 100,000).

Other US cities ?

New Orleans - pop 462,269 - murders - 134 (29 per 100,000 pop)(pre-Katrina stats of course)

Baltimore - pop 636,251 - murders - 137 (21.5 per 100,000 pop)

I like using New Orleans as a comparison, as it's population is comparable to Pattaya (supposedly), it is a major tourist destination, and, shock-gasp-splutter, sex for money is available there !

Most of the murders reported in the English Pattaya press is about falangs living in Pattaya or Jomtien, or participate in the nightlife there. Nobody knows how many that would be but say 10,000 on any given day.

Actually, many people know. Ex-Pat residents have to report their address every 90 days don't they ? And another article I read recently (from the Tourism Authourity of Thailand I think it was), estimated that over 50,000 Brits live in the Pattaya/Jomtien area. I'll try and find that article again.

When I ran the numbers (in another thread), and estimated the number of tourists and residents present in Pattaya on a given week, it came out to around 100,000 per week (14,000+ per day)

That means that to beat Detroit we need to see more than 4 farang murders per year or 1 murder every 3 months.

So what's the verdict?

Detroit, almost twice the population of Pattaya and 170 murders (about 1 every 2 days).

Pattaya, half the population of Detroit and how many farang murders/year ? 9, 10 ? (I don't know personally, as I've never tried to keep track of that).

Verdict ? Pattaya wins of course ! Much nicer than Detroit in many ways !

[Mobi]

When I ran the numbers (in another thread), and estimated the number of tourists and residents present in Pattaya on a given week, it came out to around 100,000 per week (14,000+ per day)

I too am very interested in how many farangs are here at any one time - but I'm not sure we'll ever really know. Yes, Immigration could give us the figures for the '90 day reporters', but do they really keep a proper computer records? Does anyone know?

Then there are the thousands of visa runners. Does anyone keep track of them? Don't think so.

There are something like 28,000 hotel rooms in Pattaya (incidentally only about 50 odd thousand in BKK -it sorta puts the tourist industry here into perspective doesn't it?). So at peak season, lets say 90% occupancy - lets say conservatively 1 .5 per room - then that's another 50,000.

I'm only playing with numbers. Who knows - any budding statisticians out there who have some experience in estimating this kind of stuff?

[Thaipwriter]

My guess is minimum 75,000 to 200,000 farangs in Thailand at any one time

[jdinasia]

ah ... but read the news .... from all over Thailand ... and the bad things that happen to farangs seem to happen more in Pattaya than in all the rest of Thailand put together ..... amazing!

[lamphun]

I don't think you quite get it. If news about Pattaya were to include all the murders, bashings and general mayhem among the Thai side of the population we'd be inundated with crime stories. I doubt Pattaya would ever recover.

Replace Patters with Thailand and I think you have it right mate!

The next time you arrive at Don Muang (or Suvanabummi) don't get in that taxi to Pattaya. Instead go somewhere you've never been before, Thailand. Anybody who thinks Pattaya is a mirror on Thailand needs to get off their bar stool and see the rest of the country.

[chatters]

I don't think you quite get it. If news about Pattaya were to include all the murders, bashings and general mayhem among the Thai side of the population we'd be inundated with crime stories. I doubt Pattaya would ever recover.

yes rember this is a wild west town................... life is cheap

[Pattaya_Fox]

I don't think you quite get it. If news about Pattaya were to include all the murders, bashings and general mayhem among the Thai side of the population we'd be inundated with crime stories. I doubt Pattaya would ever recover.

yes rember this is a wild west town................... life is cheap

Do we have to suffer this Troll much longer?

[britmaveric]

I don't think you quite get it. If news about Pattaya were to include all the murders, bashings and general mayhem among the Thai side of the population we'd be inundated with crime stories. I doubt Pattaya would ever recover.

Replace Patters with Thailand and I think you have it right mate!

The next time you arrive at Don Muang (or Suvanabummi) don't get in that taxi to Pattaya. Instead go somewhere you've never been before, Thailand. Anybody who thinks Pattaya is a mirror on Thailand needs to get off their bar stool and see the rest of the country.

Been elsewhere in thailand on many occassions I just find Patters to have everything one needs and more. (not from a bar stool either mate) I'd re-think your comment because thai related crime is all over the country and pales in comparison to any farang involvement and that isnt centered on Pattaya which btw last I checked was in thailand.

Edited May 14, 2006 by britmaveric

[gharknes]

I don't think you quite get it. If news about Pattaya were to include all the murders, bashings and general mayhem among the Thai side of the population we'd be inundated with crime stories. I doubt Pattaya would ever recover.

Ahhhh, but most (if not all) the attention here (Thai Visa) is focused on events involving farangs. That is what makes it seem so bad to those that don't see the big picture. To them, it seems that all the crime and mayhem is directed at/involves farangs. It seems only farangs get whacked, jump from balconies, get busted with drugs and so on.

By showing other stories, these people can maybe get the impression that it isn't all about farangs. The reality is, stories involving farangs are only a small part of the daily/weekly news. Showing a broader range of stories (good and bad) would make people realize that farangs aren't the exclusive target of every criminal in Thailand. They might realize that farangs are no more or less the target of criminals than anyone else.

The way things get reported (or not reported) now, it can make some people think only bad things happen to farangs here, which is far from the truth.

keryyd, the big picture as someone mentioned before would be appauling, yes people here are mostly interested in crime concerning farang, which appears to be growing, i think the overall trend for the area is on the increase

[MisterFingers]

I haven't been keeping count. But I have noticed that crime including Farangs as the victims of violent crime has definitely been on the rise.

I'm not refuting your view of the media obviously covering the Farang stories more in depth. But they've always done it this way. They didn't just change the way they report.

I've noticed at least a two-fold increase in the frequency of violent crimes against foreigners, usually with money as the motive.

I think it marks a change in the mentality of the criminals. They're getting smarter. Realizing that a drunk Farang walking alone on the street late at night makes an easy target with cash and other valuables like watches, etc.

Like I said, I haven't been keeping count, but there has been a very noticable increase in the frequency of these kinds of news stories.

[Mighty Mouse]

Some of you people should stop reading newspapers. You'll end up worrying yourselves to an early heart attack.

If it's not crime that concerns you, it's people committing suicide. They probably commit suicide because they are so depressed reading about crime.

Think positive for a change and you may enjoy your life more.

[The Skipper]

Put a bunch of disrespectfull, drunk, low life Farangs and a bunch of poor hookers and their boyfriends at a cheapo beach resort and see what happens.

Suprised?

[Mobi]

Put a bunch of disrespectfull, drunk, low life Farangs and a bunch of poor hookers and their boyfriends at a cheapo beach resort and see what happens.

Suprised?

You see, Kerry, Brit and all the other defenders of the realm?

You can write your heart out on page after page explaining that there's more to Pattaya than just the part between beach and third, and all that other stuff, and you just get an ill considered, trite, two dimensional reply, like the one above, which means he either hasn't read anything you bothered to write, doesn't give a shit, or is just winding you up, or, most likely, all three.

It's just not worth it because its not possible to have an intelligent discussion.

And all this time I was thinking that TV is a better and more cerebral forum than some of the other Thailand forums?

Now I'm not so sure

Edited May 15, 2006 by Mobi D'Ark

[MisterFingers]

Put a bunch of disrespectfull, drunk, low life Farangs and a bunch of poor hookers and their boyfriends at a cheapo beach resort and see what happens.

Suprised?

You see, Kerry, Brit and all the other defenders of the realm?

You can write your heart out on page after page explaining that there's more to Pattaya than just the part between beach and third, and all that other stuff, and you just get an ill considered, trite, two dimensional reply, like the one above, which means he either hasn't read anything you bothered to write, doesn't give a shit, or is just winding you up, or, most likely, all three.

I actually thought it was pretty funny. Put your humour cap on.

[Noel]

Put a bunch of disrespectfull, drunk, low life Farangs and a bunch of poor hookers and their boyfriends at a cheapo beach resort and see what happens.

Suprised?

You see, Kerry, Brit and all the other defenders of the realm?

You can write your heart out on page after page explaining that there's more to Pattaya than just the part between beach and third, and all that other stuff, and you just get an ill considered, trite, two dimensional reply, like the one above, which means he either hasn't read anything you bothered to write, doesn't give a shit, or is just winding you up, or, most likely, all three.

I actually thought it was pretty funny. Put your humour cap on.

What is so funny about a cynical supercilious snipe from a Pattaya Basher?

[Mobi]

I actually thought it was pretty funny. Put your humour cap on.

Then you're obviously not reading this forum, because this so-called joke has been cracked ad -nauseum, and in any event, I doubt that he said it to be funny.

If he wanted to be funny, he could at least have the wherewithal to say something original.

[lamphun]

Put a bunch of disrespectfull, drunk, low life Farangs and a bunch of poor hookers and their boyfriends at a cheapo beach resort and see what happens.

Suprised?

You see, Kerry, Brit and all the other defenders of the realm?

You can write your heart out on page after page explaining that there's more to Pattaya than just the part between beach and third, and all that other stuff, and you just get an ill considered, trite, two dimensional reply, like the one above, which means he either hasn't read anything you bothered to write, doesn't give a shit, or is just winding you up, or, most likely, all three.

I actually thought it was pretty funny. Put your humour cap on.

What is so funny about a cynical supercilious snipe from a Pattaya Basher?

Sense of humour failure from the usual Pattaya Pushers.

We don't seem to have a "knickers in a twist" smilie. Try this instead ..

[Mobi]

Put a bunch of disrespectfull, drunk, low life Farangs and a bunch of poor hookers and their boyfriends at a cheapo beach resort and see what happens.

Suprised?

You see, Kerry, Brit and all the other defenders of the realm?

You can write your heart out on page after page explaining that there's more to Pattaya than just the part between beach and third, and all that other stuff, and you just get an ill considered, trite, two dimensional reply, like the one above, which means he either hasn't read anything you bothered to write, doesn't give a shit, or is just winding you up, or, most likely, all three.

I actually thought it was pretty funny. Put your humour cap on.

What is so funny about a cynical supercilious snipe from a Pattaya Basher?

Sense of humour failure from the usual Pattaya Pushers.

We don't seem to have a "knickers in a twist" smilie. Try this instead ..

Lamphun, you are so hilarious, that I can barely contain my laughter enough to write this post.

Such wit! Such sparkling repartee!

You and MisterFingers should be professional comedians

Edited May 15, 2006 by Mobi D'Ark

[Noel]

Put a bunch of disrespectfull, drunk, low life Farangs and a bunch of poor hookers and their boyfriends at a cheapo beach resort and see what happens.

Suprised?

You see, Kerry, Brit and all the other defenders of the realm?

You can write your heart out on page after page explaining that there's more to Pattaya than just the part between beach and third, and all that other stuff, and you just get an ill considered, trite, two dimensional reply, like the one above, which means he either hasn't read anything you bothered to write, doesn't give a shit, or is just winding you up, or, most likely, all three.

I actually thought it was pretty funny. Put your humour cap on.

What is so funny about a cynical supercilious snipe from a Pattaya Basher?

Sense of humour failure from the usual Pattaya Pushers.

We don't seem to have a "knickers in a twist" smilie. Try this instead ..

Lamphun, you are so hilarious, that I can barely contain my laughter enough to write this post.

Such wit! Such sparkling repartee!

You and MisterFingers should be professional comedians

Yes, Lamphun is ever the wag, as witnessed by a recent rip-roaringly funny and mirth inducing gem of his:

Lets face it Pattaya is a magnet for low lifes. Those expatriates who've come to Pattaya from abroad may think the place is normal, but for someone who lives in another part of Thailand it's like a different country.

As I've said before Pattaya does Thailand one service, by attracting large numbers of gangsters it keeps the crime rate down for the rest of us.