Spear guns

[MantisMan]

I got my diving license back in 1985 from L.A. Calif. In those days, dive hunting was a thing to do, but you needed a fishing license that you could easily obtain from any Sporting store. I visited a few dive shops here and a few local owned fishing equipment stores and inquired about spear guns. The type I used was the old one that was a pole with a long rubber band on the end with a trident spear head. Once asking the question, "So, how's the spear fishing here on Samui?" I get get the wide-eye-facial-expression-of-utter-shock when asking that and the response of, "Oh no! We only shoot fish with a camera!" It's been awhile since I have dived, but when have we become so PC about it? I am not a big hunter by any means and only want to catch what I will intend to eat that day. So that's only like two or three fish. Is it really that frowned upon here in Samui? Looks like I'll have to go on-line and order one.

[John 1]

The locals use the spear gun you describe with 2 or 3 rubber bands so why is it frowned on. I don't agree with fishing like this but up to you

[Rooo]

You might find locals will get away with it, but I have a vague suspicion it's illegal.

[ikbenhet]

I think i read somewhere that spearfishing is OK but not harpoon fishing (the ones with the rubber bands).

[Rooo]

I think i read somewhere that spearfishing is OK but not harpoon fishing (the ones with the rubber bands).

That's what the OP was referring to from what I understand, not just a spear.

[gamini]

Spearfishing with any type of gun is legal and since spearfishermen are selective in what they spear it is considered quite approptiate. Whereas anglers catch a lot of attractive non edible marine fish. But there are very few fish around nowdays thanks to overfishing, pollution and the hordes of SCUBA divers.

[limbos]

Spearfishing with any type of gun is legal and since spearfishermen are selective in what they spear it is considered quite approptiate. Whereas anglers catch a lot of attractive non edible marine fish. But there are very few fish around nowdays thanks to overfishing, pollution and the hordes of SCUBA divers.

That's an interesting view, care to explain and do you have any proof for this statement. Thanks.

[rucus7]

To the original poster: it sounds like you are talking about what used to be called a Hawaiian sling. I have not seen those in Thailand. However I have seen both pneumatic and the rubber band(surgical tubing) type for sale.

Edited December 19, 2013 by rucus7

[MantisMan]

To the original poster: it sounds like you are talking about what used to be called a Hawaiian sling. I have not seen those in Thailand. However I have seen both pneumatic and the rubber band(surgical tubing) type for sale.

I'm talking about this kind. The one with the band at the end:

Also, to any MOD out there, in my first post, I did not type out so bunched up like that. I used good spacing.

This has happened a few times but I don't understand why it formats like this when I press "Post"

Edited December 20, 2013 by MantisMan

[futsukayoi]

You asked when did people get so politically correct.

Guess it was when pollution, climate change and massive overfishing destroyed a large percentage of the coral reefs and fish stock. Around here a lot of the mangrove has been replaced by new resorts so the major habitat for many fish to survive until they are large enough to get back to reefs or open water is vanishing. That means the quality of reefs and diversity of fish on them is going rapidly downhill. That is degrading the experience for recreational divers and seriously threatening the business of dive operations. Spearfishing may be more selective than the fishing boats in terms of wasted bycatch but it will be done right on the recreational dive sites. Spearfishing therefore has a direct negative impact on the dive sites and all the divers who visit them. Basically almost all dive operators and most divers view anyone spearfishing and damaging the dive sites for them and future divers as selfish, antisocial and irresponsible. It is legal and they cannot stop it but I am surprised you seemed to expect them to be encouraging or supportive.

[Rooo]

Also, to any MOD out there, in my first post, I did not type out so bunched up like that. I used good spacing.

This has happened a few times but I don't understand why it formats like this when I press "Post"

Please contact [email protected]

[John 1]

To the original poster: it sounds like you are talking about what used to be called a Hawaiian sling. I have not seen those in Thailand. However I have seen both pneumatic and the rubber band(surgical tubing) type for sale.

I'm talking about this kind. The one with the band at the end:

images.jpg

Also, to any MOD out there, in my first post, I did not type out so bunched up like that. I used good spacing.

This has happened a few times but I don't understand why it formats like this when I press "Post"

As I said in post 2, locals have them the reason I said 2 or 3 bands is that make's the weapon more powerful. I don't say if it's legal to own or not, it seem's no one on here know's for sure it's hear say could be legal or not legal..

[MantisMan]

You asked when did people get so politically correct.

Guess it was when pollution, climate change and massive overfishing destroyed a large percentage of the coral reefs and fish stock. Around here a lot of the mangrove has been replaced by new resorts so the major habitat for many fish to survive until they are large enough to get back to reefs or open water is vanishing. That means the quality of reefs and diversity of fish on them is going rapidly downhill. That is degrading the experience for recreational divers and seriously threatening the business of dive operations. Spearfishing may be more selective than the fishing boats in terms of wasted bycatch but it will be done right on the recreational dive sites. Spearfishing therefore has a direct negative impact on the dive sites and all the divers who visit them. Basically almost all dive operators and most divers view anyone spearfishing and damaging the dive sites for them and future divers as selfish, antisocial and irresponsible. It is legal and they cannot stop it but I am surprised you seemed to expect them to be encouraging or supportive.

Firstly, I speak Japanese and understand "2 days drunk".

Secondly, very good post. Very informative, however I disagree with the idea that recreational divers threaten the business of dive operators. Matter of fact, it was Diving operators who sponsored hunting as in collecting Abalone, clams, lobster and fish, all within legal limits and sizes as part of their tours.

Divers who hunt don't just go for any fish, including your tropical colorful fish. I mean, who in heck eats Clown Fish??

Thirdly, it is the Thai people that have ruined their coast by sacrificing their environment for the all mighty dollar, or should I say Baht.

Lastly, you can thank the Thai people themselves who have hunted Sea turtles to near extinction, over fished and used dynamite fishing methods.

You seem to have the image that dive hunting means one is a member of the SAS or SEAL Team 6 and recklessly going on a killing spree when in fact, they revere the sea environment just as much as any diver with their water proof camera.

Is it really that different then surf fishing from an out crop of rocks and drinking a cold beer?

The part you mentioned about Mangroves was quite interesting. Thanks!

Edited December 20, 2013 by MantisMan

[futsukayoi]

You asked when did people get so politically correct.

Guess it was when pollution, climate change and massive overfishing destroyed a large percentage of the coral reefs and fish stock. Around here a lot of the mangrove has been replaced by new resorts so the major habitat for many fish to survive until they are large enough to get back to reefs or open water is vanishing. That means the quality of reefs and diversity of fish on them is going rapidly downhill. That is degrading the experience for recreational divers and seriously threatening the business of dive operations. Spearfishing may be more selective than the fishing boats in terms of wasted bycatch but it will be done right on the recreational dive sites. Spearfishing therefore has a direct negative impact on the dive sites and all the divers who visit them. Basically almost all dive operators and most divers view anyone spearfishing and damaging the dive sites for them and future divers as selfish, antisocial and irresponsible. It is legal and they cannot stop it but I am surprised you seemed to expect them to be encouraging or supportive.

Firstly, I speak Japanese and understand "2 days drunk".

Secondly, very good post. Very informative, however I disagree with the idea that recreational divers threaten the business of dive operators. Matter of fact, it was Diving operators who sponsored hunting as in collecting Abalone, clams, lobster and fish, all within legal limits and sizes as part of their tours.

Divers who hunt don't just go for any fish, including your tropical colorful fish. I mean, who in heck eats Clown Fish??

Thirdly, it is the Thai people that have ruined their coast by sacrificing their environment for the all mighty dollar, or should I say Baht.

Lastly, you can thank the Thai people themselves who have hunted Sea turtles to near extinction, over fished and used dynamite fishing methods.

You seem to have the image that dive hunting means one is a member of the SAS or SEAL Team 6 and recklessly going on a killing spree when in fact, they revere the sea environment just as much as any diver with their water proof camera.

Is it really that different then surf fishing from an out crop of rocks and drinking a cold beer?

The part you mentioned about Mangroves was quite interesting. Thanks!

The id seemed appropriate on the day I picked it.

Think I should have highlighted that I was trying to explain the views which seem to be generally shared by the 10 or so operations in Samui and Koh Tao that I have dived with and I don't agree with them 100%. Elsewhere as you say dive hunting is viewed as perfectly normal and usually run by dive operations (hopefully this helps ensure that rules are followed so it is sustainable and remains fun for future hunters). In the Caribbean hunting of Lionfish is highly encouraged as they are non-native and wiping out a lot of the local fish. PADI in North america used to run underwater hunting courses (may well still do). Done responsibly spearfishing for fish you will eat is far less damaging to the environment than other forms of fishing or most types of fish farming. Elsewhere I have done spearfishing myself and enjoyed both the hunting and the BBQ afterwards.

I am just highlighting that here all the dive schools push Project Aware and other initiatives of the kind. Most probably would not take out a customer to spearfish (although some of their own Thai or Burmese boat crew may occasionally do some spearfishing while waiting for the divers). I think that their real concern is that many of the dive sites are already over-dived (at some 100+ divers in the water is not unknown at some) and suffering. Most divers are responsible some are not or are incompetent and damage the reef environment. A couple of responsible people spearfishing would not be a problem but 20, 30 or 40 including a few irresponsible ones would.

I don't have facts to know how serious the problem is but some of the fish hunters would likely be after are already quite depleted. I have been told (reliability uncertain) that a lot of the snapper, grouper and wrasse in restaurants and markets here now has to be imported from Burma. Obviously some hunting would not have much effect on that compared to the wall to wall fishing boats I see out every night.

If you will be eating or even selling what you catch I would agree that you are doing no harm and are hopefully having some fun. I am just trying to explain why you may get some negative comments and reactions from others and why they think the way they do (valid or not).

[Gatorade]

You asked when did people get so politically correct.

Guess it was when pollution, climate change and massive overfishing destroyed a large percentage of the coral reefs and fish stock. Around here a lot of the mangrove has been replaced by new resorts so the major habitat for many fish to survive until they are large enough to get back to reefs or open water is vanishing. That means the quality of reefs and diversity of fish on them is going rapidly downhill. That is degrading the experience for recreational divers and seriously threatening the business of dive operations. Spearfishing may be more selective than the fishing boats in terms of wasted bycatch but it will be done right on the recreational dive sites. Spearfishing therefore has a direct negative impact on the dive sites and all the divers who visit them. Basically almost all dive operators and most divers view anyone spearfishing and damaging the dive sites for them and future divers as selfish, antisocial and irresponsible. It is legal and they cannot stop it but I am surprised you seemed to expect them to be encouraging or supportive.

Firstly, I speak Japanese and understand "2 days drunk".

Secondly, very good post. Very informative, however I disagree with the idea that recreational divers threaten the business of dive operators. Matter of fact, it was Diving operators who sponsored hunting as in collecting Abalone, clams, lobster and fish, all within legal limits and sizes as part of their tours.

Divers who hunt don't just go for any fish, including your tropical colorful fish. I mean, who in heck eats Clown Fish??

Thirdly, it is the Thai people that have ruined their coast by sacrificing their environment for the all mighty dollar, or should I say Baht.

Lastly, you can thank the Thai people themselves who have hunted Sea turtles to near extinction, over fished and used dynamite fishing methods.

You seem to have the image that dive hunting means one is a member of the SAS or SEAL Team 6 and recklessly going on a killing spree when in fact, they revere the sea environment just as much as any diver with their water proof camera.

Is it really that different then surf fishing from an out crop of rocks and drinking a cold beer?

The part you mentioned about Mangroves was quite interesting. Thanks!

The id seemed appropriate on the day I picked it.

Think I should have highlighted that I was trying to explain the views which seem to be generally shared by the 10 or so operations in Samui and Koh Tao that I have dived with and I don't agree with them 100%. Elsewhere as you say dive hunting is viewed as perfectly normal and usually run by dive operations (hopefully this helps ensure that rules are followed so it is sustainable and remains fun for future hunters). In the Caribbean hunting of Lionfish is highly encouraged as they are non-native and wiping out a lot of the local fish. PADI in North america used to run underwater hunting courses (may well still do). Done responsibly spearfishing for fish you will eat is far less damaging to the environment than other forms of fishing or most types of fish farming. Elsewhere I have done spearfishing myself and enjoyed both the hunting and the BBQ afterwards.

I am just highlighting that here all the dive schools push Project Aware and other initiatives of the kind. Most probably would not take out a customer to spearfish (although some of their own Thai or Burmese boat crew may occasionally do some spearfishing while waiting for the divers). I think that their real concern is that many of the dive sites are already over-dived (at some 100+ divers in the water is not unknown at some) and suffering. Most divers are responsible some are not or are incompetent and damage the reef environment. A couple of responsible people spearfishing would not be a problem but 20, 30 or 40 including a few irresponsible ones would.

I don't have facts to know how serious the problem is but some of the fish hunters would likely be after are already quite depleted. I have been told (reliability uncertain) that a lot of the snapper, grouper and wrasse in restaurants and markets here now has to be imported from Burma. Obviously some hunting would not have much effect on that compared to the wall to wall fishing boats I see out every night.

If you will be eating or even selling what you catch I would agree that you are doing no harm and are hopefully having some fun. I am just trying to explain why you may get some negative comments and reactions from others and why they think the way they do (valid or not).

I used to spear fish using a snorkel and arballete when I was younger but then started to keep a marine aquarium. After a while I noticed each of the fish had it's own recognisable personality, particularly the lionfish. I couldn't bring myself to spear them after that!

Also it hardly seemed to be sporting to shoot a big old grouper which was relatively tame and had been hanging around his particular rock for years.

In my opinion "hunting" fish with Scuba equipment hardly presents a challenge.

I read somewhere that spear fishing in Thailand is illegal. Might be worth a check with the Marine Dept at Nathon.

[impulse]

Is it really that different then surf fishing from an out crop of rocks and drinking a cold beer?

I'm a catch-and-release kind of fisherman when I'm on that out crop of rocks. I've never seen a catch-and release spear fisherman.

I believe there are species and areas where spear fishing and bow fishing and trot line fishing are appropriate. I don't practice any of those sports, but don't begrudge anyone that does so in a responsible manner.

A fished out area like Thailand, where there are too many commercial fishing boats and virtually no restocking program isn't one of those appropriate areas.

I don't fault the sport fishermen or the spear fishermen, but the sad reality is that decent sized fish are rare and getting more so in Thai waters. The tourist value of any live fish worth spearing in a Thai SCUBA diving area far exceeds the value of that same fish on someone's dinner plate.

Edited December 21, 2013 by impulse

[Gatorade]

Is it really that different then surf fishing from an out crop of rocks and drinking a cold beer?

I'm a catch-and-release kind of fisherman when I'm on that out crop of rocks. I've never seen a catch-and release spear fisherman.

I believe there are species and areas where spear fishing and bow fishing and trot line fishing are appropriate. I don't practice any of those sports, but don't begrudge anyone that does so in a responsible manner.

A fished out area like Thailand, where there are too commercial fishing boats and virtually no restocking program isn't one of those appropriate areas.

I don't fault the sport fishermen or the spear fishermen, but the sad reality is that decent sized fish are rare and getting more so in Thai waters. The tourist value of any live fish worth spearing in a Thai SCUBA diving area far exceeds the value of that same fish on someone's dinner plate.

Agree 100%. (wish I said that!)

[MantisMan]

I think i read somewhere that spearfishing is OK but not harpoon fishing (the ones with the rubber bands).

That's what the OP was referring to from what I understand, not just a spear.

I may have mis-communicated someplace.

I was referring to underwater spear-fishing and not harpooning.

After reading peoples replies, I understand now the particular situation that Thailand has to offer ( or I should say Does not offer) in the sport of spear fishing.

Thank you for your replies.

[impulse]

I think i read somewhere that spearfishing is OK but not harpoon fishing (the ones with the rubber bands).

That's what the OP was referring to from what I understand, not just a spear.

I may have mis-communicated someplace.

I was referring to underwater spear-fishing and not harpooning.

I'm not sure there was a mis-communication. There is a difference between a speargun and a Hawaiian sling. It's like comparing a bow and arrow (speargun) to a thrown spear (Hawaiian sling), but both methods are used underwater. Each method has a following. Neither one is actually a harpoon in the whaling tradition.

With a speargun, the spear is held on a gun, and leaves the gun under power of bands or compressed air, and is then retrieved via an attached line. That gives a speargun a pretty long effective range, like a submerged bow and arrow..

With a Hawaiian sling, the spear is held in hand (not a gun) and is either thrust by hand or propelled by a rubber band fixed to the blunt end of the spear. In either case, the range of the spear is limited to what you can reach by hand.

When I lived in S California, Hawaiian slings were legal and spearguns were not legal (on a narrow range of species and locations, typically complex in California). I don't remember why. That was decades ago and I don't know what the rules are any more, much less what they are in Thailand.

[MantisMan]

I think i read somewhere that spearfishing is OK but not harpoon fishing (the ones with the rubber bands).

That's what the OP was referring to from what I understand, not just a spear.

I may have mis-communicated someplace.

I was referring to underwater spear-fishing and not harpooning.

When I lived in S California, Hawaiian slings were legal and spearguns were not legal (on a narrow range of species and locations, typically complex in California). I don't remember why. That was decades ago and I don't know what the rules are any more, much less what they are in Thailand.

That's where I'm coming from as well, Reseda California........The Valley.

I was picturing a Harpoon as in on standing in shallow water and chucking a spear at fish. This is what I did not intend to mean.

Thanks for the explanation.

[Farma]

I don't know the Thai laws on spearguns and diving but personally as a long time diver i've been brought up to leave spearfishing to snorkellers. Thats the only legal way to spearfish in a lot of countries.

I've seen 3 of my regular dive spots decimated by divers spearfishing. Gone are the schools of tame grunts or friendly groupers. I've also had low viz dives where all I could hear was some idiot spearfishing closeby but out of eyeshot. Surprisingly the culpruts were all Americans.

[Gatorade]

I don't know the Thai laws on spearguns and diving but personally as a long time diver i've been brought up to leave spearfishing to snorkellers. Thats the only legal way to spearfish in a lot of countries.

I've seen 3 of my regular dive spots decimated by divers spearfishing. Gone are the schools of tame grunts or friendly groupers. I've also had low viz dives where all I could hear was some idiot spearfishing closeby but out of eyeshot. Surprisingly the culpruts were all Americans.

Agree with you 100% Farma.

Where on earth is the skill/sport in shooting a beautiful fish at close range wearing Scuba gear? Like shooting rats in a barrel!

The excuse of only shooting for the pot is pretty tame. Just go to the market, plenty of choice there.

[bulletinmygun38]

I used to know a French man that was really into that. He bought his stuff from over seas.

Best to look in a fishing shop on the island there are plenty of them

Or take a wanted add out on Thai Visa or where ever, telcos notice bored extra

[rucus7]

To the original poster: it sounds like you are talking about what used to be called a Hawaiian sling. I have not seen those in Thailand. However I have seen both pneumatic and the rubber band(surgical tubing) type for sale.

I'm talking about this kind. The one with the band at the end:

images.jpg

Also, to any MOD out there, in my first post, I did not type out so bunched up like that. I used good spacing.

This has happened a few times but I don't understand why it formats like this when I press "Post"

AKA Hawaiian sling. The down side of a Hawaiian sling is fish can get off the barbed tips. The upside is they are very fast to reload, unlike the pneumatic or the rubber band type.

[MantisMan]

I don't know the Thai laws on spearguns and diving but personally as a long time diver i've been brought up to leave spearfishing to snorkellers. Thats the only legal way to spearfish in a lot of countries.

I've seen 3 of my regular dive spots decimated by divers spearfishing. Gone are the schools of tame grunts or friendly groupers. I've also had low viz dives where all I could hear was some idiot spearfishing closeby but out of eyeshot. Surprisingly the culpruts were all Americans.

Agree with you 100% Farma.

Where on earth is the skill/sport in shooting a beautiful fish at close range wearing Scuba gear? Like shooting rats in a barrel!

The excuse of only shooting for the pot is pretty tame. Just go to the market, plenty of choice there.

Well, quite honestly, there is not much sport in going to the local wet market and pointing to the fish you want on a bed of ice, either.

"The excuse of only shooting for the pot is pretty tame."

This sounds like it is coming from someone who has absolutely no experience in spear fishing at all.

[robblok]

I don't know the Thai laws on spearguns and diving but personally as a long time diver i've been brought up to leave spearfishing to snorkellers. Thats the only legal way to spearfish in a lot of countries.

I've seen 3 of my regular dive spots decimated by divers spearfishing. Gone are the schools of tame grunts or friendly groupers. I've also had low viz dives where all I could hear was some idiot spearfishing closeby but out of eyeshot. Surprisingly the culpruts were all Americans.

Agree with you 100% Farma.

Where on earth is the skill/sport in shooting a beautiful fish at close range wearing Scuba gear? Like shooting rats in a barrel!

The excuse of only shooting for the pot is pretty tame. Just go to the market, plenty of choice there.

Well, quite honestly, there is not much sport in going to the local wet market and pointing to the fish you want on a bed of ice, either.

"The excuse of only shooting for the pot is pretty tame."

This sounds like it is coming from someone who has absolutely no experience in spear fishing at all.

I have spearfished in the past and have to agree.. spearfishing with scubagear is no sport at all and should be banned. I have done a lot of free-diving too, if you use that to bag some fish.. its much more fair and harder to to.

I am a normal fisherman catch and release and in a distant past spear fishing but only without scuba gear. I am still an avid diver / free diver and with scuba-gear its just pathetic. Give the fish here sporting chance and get yourself in shape do it with free-diving. That is how i seen the locals do it.

I rather have the locals spearfishing as catching it all with those big nets. Spear fishing on scuba places, i can understand people wont like that and should be banned too. Most scuba places cant be fished (because of the rocks) so its a sanctuary for fish let it stay that way.

[MantisMan]

^^^^

I wouldn't disagree with that.