arrested, in jail and currenlty overstayed

[phuketrichard]

Need some info,

Friend of mine was arrested an is currenlty in Jail in Phuket for ..charges ( not drugs)

he was arrested BUT did not show his passport,

I now have his passport an he was due to depart Thailand by Sept 2013

His lawyer says he can hopefully get bail ( 300,000 whihc has been raised) but i dont think his lawyer knows he is currently overstahyed,

What will happen?

Released on bail, than asked to show passport, see he is overtstayed an than locked up again BUT thye cant deport him as he is on Bail>

Bad to worse,,,,

[Sceptict11]

Guess your "friend" is in big trouble !

They will want to see the passport

[ubonjoe]

He might be able to pay the 20k baht fine and get an extension for court proceedings under clause 2.26 of police order 777/2551.

[ubonjoe]

Posts suggesting illegal activity and quotes of it removed.

[Costas2008]

How is it possible to have been arrested and not asked for his passport?

That's the first thing they ask for!

[phuketrichard]

thanks, i have no idea

but he is in Jail and i just received his passport (sent by the manager from where he was staying to me)

Prehaps he gave them a story as he knew he was overstayed.

[JustinCredible]

I have a good friend who was held in custody in Klong Prem, on Remand, for 15 months.

After several Court appearances ( I was a defense witness) he was acquitted but the Prosecution immediately jumped up and pointed out his overstay (12 months) to the Judges.

He was then returned to Klong Prem and detained there a further 24 hours until Immigration arrived and took him to IDC. From there he was deported for the overstay but given a letter stating that he was allowed to return to LOS at any time.

Probably not a lot of help to the OP, but it shows that even if the overstay is due to being held in custody they can, and probably will, still deport you.

JC

[mickjn]

I have a good friend who was held in custody in Klong Prem, on Remand, for 15 months.

After several Court appearances ( I was a defense witness) he was acquitted but the Prosecution immediately jumped up and pointed out his overstay (12 months) to the Judges.

He was then returned to Klong Prem and detained there a further 24 hours until Immigration arrived and took him to IDC. From there he was deported for the overstay but given a letter stating that he was allowed to return to LOS at any time.

Probably not a lot of help to the OP, but it shows that even if the overstay is due to being held in custody they can, and probably will, still deport you.

JC

Good post

[Halion]

Do not understand who he can have been arrested and charged and all without showing his passport which is his proof of identity. Does not make sense. He may have used a Thai driving license as initial identification however they would most definitely want conformation of identity from his passport details. Something not right with this post..

[DGIE]

Maybe they can excuse him for overstaying.

Or he should have asked an excuse to the policeman to go out of Thailand for visa stamp.

[phuketrichard]

Facts;

I hold his passport, he is in Jail, I have only seen him once there and spoken to his lawyer a few times who is working on getting him a bail hearing. Monday he had a court appearence where he put in his not guilty plea.

Justin; Did your friend come back toThailand since he was acquitted?

pity he had to remain in jail for that amount of time.

My friend was overstayed BEFORE he was arrested so guess that will be an addtional charge once he produces his passport.

BUt what was tallking about is, if he does get bail, how does he stay in thailand once they know he is already on an overstay? As i assume, being on bail your NOT allowed to leave the country and never heard being on bail is a reason for an extension.

Sort of a catch 22, They have to grant him an extenison or will bail be denied?

Edited December 20, 2013 by phuketrichard

[Mario2008]

Overstay is reason for arrest, they can detain him for that and put him in an immigration cell. Not the regular jail. immigration will fine him 20,000 baht. Or he can refuse to pay and be brought before a judge. A Judge will typically give him a lesser fine.

As has been said, since he is involved in a legal proceedings he can get extension based on that from immigration.

But best advice you can get is from member badbanker, he deals a lot with overstay and might be able to tell you what happens in a situation like this.

[ubonjoe]

There is the clause for litigation or court proceedings I posted earlier.

2.26 In the case of litigation or court proceedings: Each permission shall be granted for no more than 90 days.

(1) There must be evidence confirming that the applicant is involved in a litigation or court proceedings as accuser, injured person, accused, plaintiff, defendant, or witness

There have been reports of people getting them for years until the case was settled.

[kingstonkid]

I would say that the chances of im getting bail with or without the passport are very limited. He would be a major flight risk. Also how would he be able to support himself (LEGALLY).

TI think he might make himself very comfortable. While you say it wasot drugs i guess we can assume that it is something of a rather large importance.

I think that the judge at least will keep him in jail until either he is found not guilty at which time they will punt him out of the coutnry or he is fund guilty and does hs time.

Either way he is screwed

[jpeg]

I would say that the chances of im getting bail with or without the passport are very limited. He would be a major flight risk. Also how would he be able to support himself (LEGALLY).

TI think he might make himself very comfortable. While you say it wasot drugs i guess we can assume that it is something of a rather large importance.

I think that the judge at least will keep him in jail until either he is found not guilty at which time they will punt him out of the coutnry or he is fund guilty and does hs time.

Either way he is screwed

And rightly so. Love the way all the members here going out of their way to throw good advice at him. Oh well, if it wasn't drugs that's alright then. I had a friend who was in ICU when some turd farang tried to sell his house, and with the aid of his bitch of a Thai wife, almost succeeded. Lots of those down here on Phuket. Did your friend do it?

[Noi657]

Why would your friend be bothered about his overstay? I mean if he gets bail, he can't leave the kingdom anyway! Oh, I get it... He wants to skip back to blighty but is worried about getting caught with the overstay! Then the courts asking why he was trying to leave the country anyway! Do the crime, face it like a man!

[JustinCredible]

.....................................

Justin; Did your friend come back toThailand since he was acquitted?

pity he had to remain in jail for that amount of time.............................

No, even with his letter he is worried.

The case against him was a total "stitch-up" and his Lawyer was able to prove that to the Court.

He says that after 15 months in Klong Prem even the South Pole with no clothes sounds more attractive than Thailand.

[phuketrichard]

it was not drugs, but related to something from years ago

Thanks ubonJoe/Mario and others who gave me some good info.

Noi657; crawl back from whence u came

[dighambara]

He might be able to pay the 20k baht fine and get an extension for court proceedings under clause 2.26 of police order 777/2551.

Without a supporting description such info is not helpful - pure gobbldygook.

[Sceptict11]

it was not drugs, but related to something from years ago

Thanks ubonJoe/Mario and others who gave me some good info.

Noi657; crawl back from whence u came

it is likely , assuming bail is granted, that the court would retain the passport. -ie. No passport ...... no bail.

[lostinsurin]

Why not give his passport to his lawyer?

[RickFarang]

If I might make a suggestion with respect to your friend who is being held and awaiting his bail hearing, it might be best for him if you "have difficulty" obtaining his passport so that they don't see that he is on overstay. Being on overstay might not look very good as the judge weighs whether your friend is a flight risk, and he might just decide that since your friend is guilty of one crime that can land him in jail,he should not let him out . You might want to talk this over with his lawyer before you give the passport to your friend or the police.

Good luck to your friend. I'm sure he's grateful to have a friend help him out.

Best regards,

Rick

[cherrylee2512]

Facts;

I hold his passport, he is in Jail, I have only seen him once there and spoken to his lawyer a few times who is working on getting him a bail hearing. Monday he had a court appearence where he put in his not guilty plea.

Justin; Did your friend come back toThailand since he was acquitted?

pity he had to remain in jail for that amount of time.

My friend was overstayed BEFORE he was arrested so guess that will be an addtional charge once he produces his passport.

BUt what was tallking about is, if he does get bail, how does he stay in thailand once they know he is already on an overstay? As i assume, being on bail your NOT allowed to leave the country and never heard being on bail is a reason for an extension.

Sort of a catch 22, They have to grant him an extenison or will bail be denied?

you dont always have to show it i know of a case where they said it was lost and didnt and they still got bail if they are on bail then they cannot be deported an seeing as they have not been caught while outside they will be able to pay the court the overstay fine and they will do it for them after which the court will keep the passport until the case is over. there are cases where someone may need to go home abroad in these special cases the judge will grant for the passport to be given back and 20000 baht will be paid to the the court as a deposit and will be given back when the passport is placed back into the court. during the time the court case is going on the owner of the passport has to do their own visas which means depositing 20000 baht evertime to get it out to do so

[simon43]

If he is granted bail, then his name will be put on the immigration computer 'no-exit blacklist' ==> meaning that he cannot leave Thailand when he presents his passport at a border he will be refused exit from the country. (I know this from personal experience).

Quite how he would get bail without being able to present his passport I don't know, but you do not have to surrender your passport to get bail.

and never heard being on bail is a reason for an extension.

If you are on bail, then indeed you can get extensions of typically 4 weeks at a time. But (certainly in Pattaya), the immigration office needs a bribe each time to give you this extension, typically 10,000 baht each time, (again, speaking from personal experience).

It can get quite expensive...

Simon

Edited December 20, 2013 by simon43

[phuketrichard]

thanks all;

Simon;

f you are on bail, then indeed you can get extensions of typically 4 weeks at a time. But (certainly in Pattaya), the immigration office needs a bribe each time to give you this extension, typically 10,000 baht each time, (again, speaking from personal experience).

cant get an extenison unless u present ur passport< correct?

Like i said, catch 22, present passport an they see ur overstayed and off to immigration jail than pay overstay your supposed to leave right away BUT if he is on bail he cant leave the country, so back to immigration and ask for an extension.

BUt as others have said, the judge takes into account flight risk an just by being overstayed will not sit well. Believe me i have run various scenerios over in my head an none come out good.

What i had planned to do is give the passport to his lawyer, ( u can not pass along anything to anyone in the thai jail without going thru the "chain of command")

Its interesteing learning what happens without it happening to me.

Edited December 21, 2013 by phuketrichard

[Gone]

I was arrested and charged with Defamation just from sending swear words in an email to another expat and the police have had my passport since June 16th and 60k bail money. All of the charges have been dropped by the prosecutor which meand obviously defamation is not a charge in a private email and cannot be submitted into court however they say I can't get anything back until Feb. 4th now. This has been going on for months now and I have no income, my credit cards are maxed out and have gone to the credit beaurue in Canada so my credit is ruined and I have major health issues but they don't care trust me.

So I can tell the OP first hand that:

1) They will NOT release him unless they have his passport and will most likely keep it and his bail until the case is finished.

2) His overstay will be added as a seperate charge and he can either do the time for it or pay whatever fine the Judge imposes

3) 300,000b seems very high so his charges must be very serious.

4) If they offer him a "way out" by paying money then tell him to DO IT !

In my case, it's not that the charges were accepted but it is just the way that the Thai Judicional system goes and takes time (plus they are hoping I cave in and give them the bail money)

And btw, it is the Police that have my passport and money and NOT the prosecutor.

[cbluck58]

You might find the answer in the Thai Criminal Code , which you can download in pdf format ( English Translation ) from ThaiLaws.com

Good Luck.

[Mario2008]

Some off topic post removed.

There is the option of not replying if you have nothing to contribute.

[jpeg]

it was not drugs, but related to something from years ago

Thanks ubonJoe/Mario and others who gave me some good info.

Noi657; crawl back from whence u came

Bearing in mind how long the court process is here, how does this in any way mitigate against what he did? My friend is still awaiting retribution after four long years. I'm beginning to suspect from this disingenuous non response, together with the jail time/bail, your 'friend' did something really rather nasty. Perhaps along the lines of that which was inflicted upon my friend?

[simon43]

BTW, even when your friend sorts out all these problems, getting his name removed from the 'no-exit' blacklist so that he can leave the country can be rather difficult. It took me several months (more overstay) after my court case was amicably settled, to get my name removed, even though I personally visited the IDC room where the blacklist admin officer is located.....

Moral of the story - You don't have to be guilty of a crime to find yourself in deep and expensive doo-doo