'Thai budget woes' if govt delayed

[webfact]

'Budget woes' if govt delayed
Wichit Chaitrong
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- IF A NEW government cannot be formed within one year, Thailand could face problems with its budgetary spending as a caretaker government would have no authority over the budget for fiscal 2015, Budget Bureau director Somsak Chotrattanasiri said.

In addition, the Election Commission has limited authority to allow budgetary spending by the caretaker government, he said.

If the general election were to be delayed, this could lead to difficulties in preparing a budget for fiscal 2015, as the budget period for fiscal 2014 ends next September. Total expenditure in the 2014 budget is set at Bt2.525 trillion, of which regular expenditure is Bt2.02 trillion and investment expenditure Bt442 billion.

Under the constitution, the caretaker government can only use the regular budget to pay the monthly salaries of civil servants, which accounts for only half of the total regular budget. It would mean the government only has authority for six months spending (from October 2014 to March 2015)

However, unless the government is formed within six months, the bureau will have to regulate additional conditions but the bureau cannot exceed the budget of fiscal 2014.

"The government cannot withdraw the budget for more than one year. We have to launch a new budget within one year of the end of fiscal 2014," he said.

Somsak said that the Election Commission can allow the caretaker government expenditure from the central budget, reserve fund, civil servants reshuffle, expenditure for economic security and the expenditure for the public.

The caretaker government cannot withdraw funds for new investments unless they are for projects already signed and those contracts are in the obligated budget for 2014. The bureau has prepared the budget for fiscal 2015 before a new government is formed. The agency along with the ministries is finalising regular expenditure and the initial investment budget.

"We have a draft budget covering more than 70 per cent of total budget for fiscal 2015 in order to help the new government smoothly run the country," he said.


-- The Nation 2013-12-23

[EricBerg]

"IF A NEW government cannot be formed within one year, Thailand could face problems with its budgetary spending as a caretaker government"...

Within a year??? There'll be three governments in that period.

Edited December 22, 2013 by EricBerg

[Puccini]

Section 108 of the constitution states clearly and unambiguously that when the House of Representatives is dissolved, a new election must be held not earlier than 45 days and not later than 60 days after the dissolution. It gives neither the Election Commission nor anybody else the authority to delay the election beyond the stipulated maximum of 60 days.

[Robby nz]

Section 108 of the constitution states clearly and unambiguously that when the House of Representatives is dissolved, a new election must be held not earlier than 45 days and not later than 60 days after the dissolution. It gives neither the Election Commission nor anybody else the authority to delay the election beyond the stipulated maximum of 60 days.

However the Election commission also said :

BANGKOK: -- Election Commission member Somchai Srisuthiyakorn said on Tuesday that the EC is ready to postpone the election from February 2 if political parties reach an agreement to delay it and if it is permitted under the law.

Reasons to postpone

_ A poll can be delayed by 30 days via royal decree if there is civil unrest, floods, fire or other eventualities (according to Article 78 of the 2007 Constitution's organic law on elections);

_ If the ballot papers are damaged or lost (according to Article 85 of the 2007 Constitution's organic law on elections);

_ If only one candidate is elected in a constituency and receives less than 20 per cent of the total vote (according to Article 88 of the 2007 Constitution's organic law on elections);

_ A constituency has no MP candidates;

_ The number of MPs is less than 95 per cent of 500 - the compulsory figure that is needed for the House of Representatives to convene (according to Article 93 of the Constitution).

As some appointed Senators suggested that the Feb 2 election could be postponed under Article 187 of the Constitution, Ms Yingluck said this is a new issue which should be thoroughly studied and the forum could help find the best solution to the current political quagmire.

Yingluck has thoroughly studied the situation and decided the best solution is to run away to Issan.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Robby nz

[Jay Sata]

The big problem she faces now is paying the farmers who have been waiting months for the money for the rice harvest.

The piggy bank is empty and no one is prepared to sign the cheques. Who is the boss of the rice pledging scheme?

That will be Yingluck.

She has never attended a committee meeting but delegated the whole shambles to minions who do what Thais do best when there is a big accident.

Run away

Edited December 23, 2013 by Jay Sata

[Puccini]

However the Election commission also said :

BANGKOK: -- Election Commission member Somchai Srisuthiyakorn said on Tuesday that the EC is ready to postpone the election from February 2 if political parties reach an agreement to delay it and if it is permitted under the law.

Reasons to postpone

_ A poll can be delayed by 30 days via royal decree if there is civil unrest, floods, fire or other eventualities (according to Article 78 of the 2007 Constitution's organic law on elections);

_ If the ballot papers are damaged or lost (according to Article 85 of the 2007 Constitution's organic law on elections);

_ If only one candidate is elected in a constituency and receives less than 20 per cent of the total vote (according to Article 88 of the 2007 Constitution's organic law on elections);

_ A constituency has no MP candidates;

_ The number of MPs is less than 95 per cent of 500 - the compulsory figure that is needed for the House of Representatives to convene (according to Article 93 of the Constitution).

As some appointed Senators suggested that the Feb 2 election could be postponed under Article 187 of the Constitution, Ms Yingluck said this is a new issue which should be thoroughly studied and the forum could help find the best solution to the current political quagmire.

...

Organic Act on MP Election & Installation of Senators.pdf

Somchai Srisuthiyakorn forgot to mention that Section 78 applies only to polling stations where the mentioned conditions apply, not to the whole country.

Section 78 In the case where the polling at any polling station could not be made

because of the riot, flood, fire, force majeure or another case of necessity, if such event has

occurred prior to the election day, the Committee of polling station shall determine a new

polling place where the voters shall be able to cast a vote conveniently. If the new polling

place cannot be determined, the Committee of polling station shall announce the cancellation

of vote-casting in such station and shall forthwith report such incident to the Election

Commission.

In the case where an incident under paragraph one occurs on the election day, the

Committee of constituency or the Committee of polling station shall announce the

cancellation of the vote-casting in such station and report such incident to the Election

Commission urgently.

The Election Commission shall forthwith determine a new polling day of such polling

station or decide differently in accordance with the rules and procedure prescribed by the

Election Commission.

In carrying out the action under paragraph three, if the Election Commission is of the

opinion that it cannot act in such a way to comply with the provisions of Section 8, it shall

provide a new vote-casting for such polling station as appropriate without having to conform

to the time limit as prescribed in paragraph three.

The good man did not expect, of course, that anybody would go and read the section of the law to which he referred.

Suthep has the job cut out for him: he has to cause civil riots at every polling station in the country severe enough to make polling impossible at every polling station.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Puccini

[Puccini]

Suthep's declared plan is different. He said that he wants to do it along the lines of how it happened in 2006. His problem is that the red shirts are not playing along this time. No counter-demonstrations with violent clashes, requiring the interventions of the army. No black shirt sharp shooters, no large scale killings. Also the police does not play along. No hard-line action against the demonstrators. The policemen observe the demonstrations unarmed. All this must be very frustrating for Suthep.

[Scamper]

Perhaps the people would like more of an input as to where all that budget money is spent. Perhaps the people would be interested to see that funds allocated actually end up where it's meant to go, rather than in designated pockets. Perhaps the people would like an end to corruption practices. Even more controversially, perhaps the people expect the government and budget to serve their interests and the interests of the country.

[soi41]

Suthep's declared plan is different. He said that he wants to do it along the lines of how it happened in 2006. His problem is that the red shirts are not playing along this time. No counter-demonstrations with violent clashes, requiring the interventions of the army. No black shirt sharp shooters, no large scale killings. Also the police does not play along. No hard-line action against the demonstrators. The policemen observe the demonstrations unarmed. All this must be very frustrating for Suthep.

Don't worry!! Some of the amart-pawns among the posters here, will soon be around to explain, it is all part of Sutheps masterplan!

[Jay Sata]

I can tell you if I was heading the Democrats I'd avoid the election and book a six month holiday while Yingluck watched the house of cards fall down.

The good news is the baht is heading back to 70

[Puccini]

A recent public opinion poll, published also on Thaivisa, showed that 85% of the population condone corruption, ie the payment of bribes to public officials. I believe there were some Prime Ministers in the recent past that were considered relatively "clean", yet even they made no impact on reducing corruption. What is the standard rate of kickback to win a tender for a government contract today? 30%? What was it ten years ago? 10%?

[Robby nz]

Certainly is bad news for the farmers as it is said that Finance Ministry officials wont sign ant guarantees for credit to the BAAC because it would violate electoral law.

One of the officials said that they dare not sign any back up deals because if they did PT could be dissolved.

Perhaps Yingluck should have thought about getting some money for the farmers before she dissolved the house.

[Puccini]

...

The good news is the baht is heading back to 70

You are talking about the exchange rate (bank buying T/T) of the pound sterling (GBP), I presume. (They are not all Brits reading this forum, I believe)

[Puccini]

Certainly is bad news for the farmers as it is said that Finance Ministry officials wont sign ant guarantees for credit to the BAAC because it would violate electoral law.

One of the officials said that they dare not sign any back up deals because if they did PT could be dissolved.

Perhaps Yingluck should have thought about getting some money for the farmers before she dissolved the house.

BAAC? My guess would be that you are talking about the Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives. No harm in spelling it out, as not all readers may be familiar with all the acronyms being bandied about.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Puccini

[gabruce]

Section 108 of the constitution states clearly and unambiguously that when the House of Representatives is dissolved, a new election must be held not earlier than 45 days and not later than 60 days after the dissolution. It gives neither the Election Commission nor anybody else the authority to delay the election beyond the stipulated maximum of 60 days.

It also says "when the House of Representatives is dissolved, a new election must be held". My quote doesn't mention a time frame, so obviously it can be delayed!!!

Remember that the constitution is a long document with many clauses that interact.

[Puccini]

Section 108 of the constitution states clearly and unambiguously that when the House of Representatives is dissolved, a new election must be held not earlier than 45 days and not later than 60 days after the dissolution. It gives neither the Election Commission nor anybody else the authority to delay the election beyond the stipulated maximum of 60 days.

It also says "when the House of Representatives is dissolved, a new election must be held". My quote doesn't mention a time frame, so obviously it can be delayed!!!

Remember that the constitution is a long document with many clauses that interact.

I'm afraid I have no idea what you mean with "my quote". I don't see any other post of yours in this topic?

[Puccini]

For anyone who may be interested, Section 108 of the constitution may be looked up here:

Constitution 2007 - thailaws.com.pdf

[jaidam]

I love it how the red establishment are trying to blame the protests for budget woes and inability to pay rice farmers. Predictable and most amusing.

Most observers realize that there are budget woes because the policies were not thought out properly, or flat out were engineered solely as vote buying tools. Go back to the start of the rice scam and you will see hundreds of TVF posts that called the scam for what it obviously was, forecast that the global rice price would not increase, the benefits would not outweigh the costs by 300% or whatever Thaksin's insane claims were. It's time to stop believing that Thaksin is a financial genius, he is not. He is just a petty crook that scored big through being born into riches and power.

The real problem here is that other parties or entities will be left to pick up the steaming pile of crap, debt and future woes that Thaksin's failed policies have left. Just who will deal with the billions of tons of rotting rice stored around the country, and who will pay for it. How to recover Thailand's rice reputation? For this reason Thaksin's clone should have been left in power. It would have been priceless to see the chickens come home to roost.

[Bpuumike]

Section 108 of the constitution states clearly and unambiguously that when the House of Representatives is dissolved, a new election must be held not earlier than 45 days and not later than 60 days after the dissolution. It gives neither the Election Commission nor anybody else the authority to delay the election beyond the stipulated maximum of 60 days.

However the Election commission also said :

BANGKOK: -- Election Commission member Somchai Srisuthiyakorn said on Tuesday that the EC is ready to postpone the election from February 2 if political parties reach an agreement to delay it and if it is permitted under the law.

Reasons to postpone

_ A poll can be delayed by 30 days via royal decree if there is civil unrest, floods, fire or other eventualities (according to Article 78 of the 2007 Constitution's organic law on elections);

_ If the ballot papers are damaged or lost (according to Article 85 of the 2007 Constitution's organic law on elections);

_ If only one candidate is elected in a constituency and receives less than 20 per cent of the total vote (according to Article 88 of the 2007 Constitution's organic law on elections);

_ A constituency has no MP candidates;

_ The number of MPs is less than 95 per cent of 500 - the compulsory figure that is needed for the House of Representatives to convene (according to Article 93 of the Constitution).

As some appointed Senators suggested that the Feb 2 election could be postponed under Article 187 of the Constitution, Ms Yingluck said this is a new issue which should be thoroughly studied and the forum could help find the best solution to the current political quagmire.

Yingluck has thoroughly studied the situation and decided the best solution is to run away to Issan.

No doubt distributing funds to the needy.

Probably has her passport and ticket to DXB just in case.

An election returning the present status quo would indeed be a true budget disaster.

[Bpuumike]

Perhaps the people would like more of an input as to where all that budget money is spent. Perhaps the people would be interested to see that funds allocated actually end up where it's meant to go, rather than in designated pockets. Perhaps the people would like an end to corruption practices. Even more controversially, perhaps the people expect the government and budget to serve their interests and the interests of the country.

Very true but unlikely to happen. $$$ rule.

[bigbamboo]

What was that about a graft budget?

Oops.... mis-read that, they were speaking about a 'draft' budget.

For a moment there I thought this was the new transparency in government we hear so little about.

Edited December 23, 2013 by bigbamboo

[Ulic]

Don't worry Suthep will take care of everything. One for you- one for me-one for you -one for me.........

[GAZZPA]

A recent public opinion poll, published also on Thaivisa, showed that 85% of the population condone corruption, ie the payment of bribes to public officials. I believe there were some Prime Ministers in the recent past that were considered relatively "clean", yet even they made no impact on reducing corruption. What is the standard rate of kickback to win a tender for a government contract today? 30%? What was it ten years ago? 10%?

from what I saw on the price the government were spending on tablets for schools i would say closer to 50%. This is purely based on what I know to be the costs from China (which is where they were bought from) and the price I know they should be as I work in the industry.

[Ricardo]

Suthep's declared plan is different. He said that he wants to do it along the lines of how it happened in 2006. His problem is that the red shirts are not playing along this time. No counter-demonstrations with violent clashes, requiring the interventions of the army. No black shirt sharp shooters, no large scale killings. Also the police does not play along. No hard-line action against the demonstrators. The policemen observe the demonstrations unarmed. All this must be very frustrating for Suthep.

Not much of that happened in 2006 either, did it ?

Perhaps you mean 2010, when you talk about "black shirt sharp shooters" & "large scale killings" ?

And didn't the guards recently catch one armed policeman, in plain clothes & without any I.D., inside the anti-government protest ?

Edited December 23, 2013 by Ricardo

[rreddin]

Section 108 of the constitution states clearly and unambiguously that when the House of Representatives is dissolved, a new election must be held not earlier than 45 days and not later than 60 days after the dissolution. It gives neither the Election Commission nor anybody else the authority to delay the election beyond the stipulated maximum of 60 days.

That has not stopped them from proposing a delay in the elction. Time for them to get on with the job they were charged to by Royal Decree and are being paid to do.

[tomacht8]

I'm glad to read that.

Contain at least a small fuse to the unabashed self-service on the state budget.

In the last two years, the government has burned money in new outstanding dimensions.

Rice Scheme -800 billion Baht, floodmoney -350 billion, first Car Buyer Scheme, first House buyer scheme,
overpriced useless tablets, etc.

All this money is gone with any positive effects to the economic.

Not even a short-term effect.

A brainless waste of money.

A robbery of the public finances.

I realize that this is not understandable for people without an economic education.

Many do not even know that they and their children have been robbed.

In terms of the national economic damage are Ali Baba and the 40 thieves choirboys.

The country needs investments in education (modernization of all public schools), health (modernization of state hospitals),
drinking water supply, road safety and natural ressources conservation.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Maestro
Deleted inappropriate reference to head of state.

[DGIE]

unless the government is formed within six months....

No problem, Suthep has been forming his government in its second month now.

If he declares E-Day, maybe that time the new government is formed

[Puccini]

Suthep already has his People's Democratic Reform Committee or his People's Committee for Absolute Democracy – not sure what what the journalists call it today – in place to serve as the interim government, and I believe he already has finalised the draft for the interim constitution and the list of persons which his Committee will appoint to the People's Assembly (which will have the function that the House of Representatives previously had)

[Puccini]

That's eerie. Yesterday I posted in this topic, with reference to section 78 of the constitution:

Suthep has the job cut out for him: he has to cause civil riots at every polling station in the country severe enough to make polling impossible at every polling station.

54 minutes later a news article gets posted saying that Suthep announced that this is exactly what he will do:

...on election day on February 2, we will block every location," Suthep announced at the Rajdamnoen rally site at 6.50pm yesterday.

There are interesting times ahead.

[Robby nz]

I see it reported elsewhere this morning that there are even greater implications of PT lack of forethought when they dissolved parliament.

It seems that the outfit that pays for the diesel subsidy is running out of money and has only enough for the next 10 days.

It is reported that they are in the same position as the rice with the finance ministry not being in a position to authorize any farther payment from Govt lack of funds.

They are said to be hoping to get loans from Krung Thai and Govt savings bank of 20 and 10 Billion to tide them over. (both Govt banks)

If they cant then in 10 days the price of diesel should rise by 10b to 40b per litre.

If it does it will have huge implications as a big percentage of the heavy transport runs on diesel as well as the trains and a fair percentage of the power is generated by diesel as well.