Thai govt rejects election delay despite deadly violence

[Baerboxer]

A great day today, when the government and police force cut off the thug mob. Well timed, as it was extremely clear that the "protestors" were not there to protest but instead intent on preventing the necessaries of preparing for the election to take place, and by any means necessary. Clearly tyranny and mob rule was preparing to become the order of the day.

Now the elected government which has the responsibility of acting responsibly towards the countries institutions and in the best interests of governing for the common good, now and in the future, has made the wise decision to control the mob and stay the course leading up to the preparations for the election, not postponing it, which would leave nothing more than a yawning abyss for the mob and it's leaders to stir up additional trouble with no end in sight. Fortunately Yingluck and the government remain the adults in the room and the only ones with a sensible plan towards navigating a way forward with a fresh election and a commitment to reforms. There is no other responsible plan put forward and everyone involved would be wise to get on board and see it through.

Hmmm.... and the caretaker government showed just how responsible, caring, honest and what champions of democracy they are when in power for 2.5 years before being forced to dissolve parliament due to being caught cheating, lying, and trying to ram through a whitewash all amnesty bill for the benefit of the convicted fugitive criminal that seems to control them. A government that has welcomed back into the fold a considerable number of previously banned for corruption people, whose bans have expired, rewarding former riot leaders with government positions, and made billions of baht evaporate.

Thailand is really lucky to have these sensible adults steering the country through this difficult situation and leading a reform to benefit future generations

Wonder how long it will take them to get the idea out of the numerous committees that whats really needed is a one party, clan led, dictatorial dynastic regime, headed by a generous warm paternalistic senior experienced figure, couple with a reconciliation based amnesty for all? Maybe the have someone in mind, who knows whats best for the country and all the people who they could propose?

[tezzainoz]

The government clings on to power? You can form your own view. Most intelligent people can see what is going on.

A government put in charge by the people!!

As a intelligent person, I can see exactly, what is going on.

The elite, who is never going to win another election, is using all means to keep their place at the trough.

Even if it means a few of their pawns will have to be sacrified (killed).

That is, what is going on!!

Is this your opinion

or a Fact

I not agree with the red shirts or the yellow shirts

but this is not my country I am just a guest here

But my Thai wife thinks your comments should be

When in Rome except the Roman way

If you can not take the heat in the kitchen

GET OUT

As I have said before

I never felt safer then during the last time the Military took over

where where you then

sitting in the safty of a western country

[Baerboxer]

The government clings on to power? You can form your own view. Most intelligent people can see what is going on.

Same same, Mark clinking to power when order the use of live bullet to disperses the protesters that caused 90+ death. You can form your own view. Most intelligent people can see what is going on.

The live bullet that killed a policeman was fired by the anti-government protesters and not by the police who were shooting rubber bullets. There have been no anti-government supporters killed during the protests. The only deaths have been red shirts and a policeman.

How do you know this?

[Estrada]

Good for the government, this reactionary gang of thugs and murderers must not be allowed to disrupt the democratic process.

What democratic process? Do you seriously believe any elections in Thailand were democratic? Stop kidding yourself. What is happening these days in Bangkok is exact result of setting red thugs free instead of locking them up for good. As long as you have thugs like Jatuporn and Nattawut occupying public functions instead of being in jail there is no hope for Thailand. Red thugs from 2010 got rewarded for their crimes and terrorism. They set an example that being a thug pays off.

Please give sources for your statements. I'm so tired of hearing "vote buying" without any direct evidence or convictions for voter fraud. Is an unelected committee to run the country a beaming democratic solution?

The evidence of vote buying is well documented. A few M.P.s have just finished their suspension for vote buying and voter fraud. I have lived here 20 years, and live in a Thai Moo Bahn. Most Thai M.P.s buy the vote, be it in cash, or free long weekends away at a luxury hotel for the voters. M.P.s who have spoken at various Rotary Club Meetings I have attended, have openly stated how much they paid for each vote. They even pour scorn on the poorer parties who paid less per voter for their votes. I have been close to the Democratic Party since 1982 and became disillusioned when I found out that even those M.P.s on all sides you would think are squeaky clean, are on the take. The problem is that it is hard to get elected unless you buy the vote, and to buy the vote you need money from projects that you award.

I am a friend of Suthep, but disagree 100% on his idea of a People's Council. Libya elected a People's Council and Colonel Gadhafi ended up running the Country as a Dictator. The people's council became more like the Nazi S.S. suppressing all opposition to his rule.

They should abolish the party list system which allows corrupt politicians to regain power without being directly elected by local constituents.

[catmac]

Delaying the election would keep the current PTP government in power, is that correct?

If that is so then Suthep and the Undems should contest the election and see what the people really want, oops they can't can they, could not get through to register because of the rent a mob.

Hopefully, in the case of military intervention, the Army etc would realise that Suthep et al are the real aggressors and put him and his minions away. But of course it is a very unlikely scenario if the powers behind etc are who it is intimated.

I am thinking that those behind Suthep don't have a year left. They can't have Yingluck as PM when something that is bound to happen happens...

Hit the nail on the head, Jack, if only more people could use their brains to realise that this is the real cause of the present chaos. Pity nobody can actually say it, though.

[thaiguzzi]

Delaying the election would keep the current PTP government in power, is that correct?

If that is so then Suthep and the Undems should contest the election and see what the people really want, oops they can't can they, could not get through to register because of the rent a mob.

Hopefully, in the case of military intervention, the Army etc would realise that Suthep et al are the real aggressors and put him and his minions away. But of course it is a very unlikely scenario if the powers behind etc are who it is intimated.

I am thinking that those behind Suthep don't have a year left. They can't have Yingluck as PM when something that is bound to happen happens...

Hit the nail on the head, Jack, if only more people could use their brains to realise that this is the real cause of the present chaos. Pity nobody can actually say it, though.

A big +1.

AS they say in the Sopranos and all the great Mafia movies down the years - " dis aint personal, it's purely business".

[timber]

Well you have to admire Ying's perseverance she will sacrifice Thailand, democracy and our Honourably King to satisfy her brother. wishes

[aussieinthailand]

"Bangkok-based middle class and elite against rural and working-class"

So tired of seeing this lazy cliched copy/paste "journalism". It's certainly not just affluent Bangkok people protesting against the PTP and Shinawatra clan. It's people from many provinces and many walks of life. And please, if anyone is elitist it's the Shinawatra family. By far the richest mob of all, and clearly determined to grab Thailand by the balls through their wealth and influence. Trying to portray the political situation as rich vs. poor is just plain stupid and wrong, and did I mention lazy journalism? The foreign press are especially getting the whole story wrong.

If you care to take a real look, the north and north east are predominately PTP, the south is predominately Dem's, It is common knowledge that people in the south look down on and have little to no respect for those people from the north, and it is extremely difficult for southern Thai's to have a person from the north as PM as they see themselves as above those from the north. It is a simplistic view yes, but it is also an unfortunate fact.

[GrantSmith]

The live bullet that killed a policeman was fired by the anti-government protesters and not by the police who were shooting rubber bullets. There have been no anti-government supporters killed during the protests. The only deaths have been red shirts and a policeman.

Think you better re-visit this assumption..

[Toscano]

For better or worse , I believe it essential to continue and have the election .

Thailand cannot continue interminably with only a cartaker government . There is NO question of them standing aside for Suthep's PDRC to govern the country Thailand is Thailand , the way it is corruption and all . These demonstrations are solely about getting rid of the Thaksin image and influence .

Short of getting rid of all the Thai people reform will not be achieved in a generation . The PDRC taking office would cause more trouble the country over

than now . They are seeking to have the military behind them , but it won't happen . The military might be able to police Bangkok , but they cannot control the whole country especially the north . This is a recipe for civil war . Are people aware that PDRC have paid recruiting agents in Isaan and the north ,

that many of the crowd in Bangkok are poor country people paid to be there , but would probably vote Peu Thai in an election .

[Dario]

Good for the government, this reactionary gang of thugs and murderers must not be allowed to disrupt the democratic process.

What democratic process? Do you seriously believe any elections in Thailand were democratic? Stop kidding yourself. What is happening these days in Bangkok is exact result of setting red thugs free instead of locking them up for good. As long as you have thugs like Jatuporn and Nattawut occupying public functions instead of being in jail there is no hope for Thailand. Red thugs from 2010 got rewarded for their crimes and terrorism. They set an example that being a thug pays off.

Please give sources for your statements. I'm so tired of hearing "vote buying" without any direct evidence or convictions for voter fraud. Is an unelected committee to run the country a beaming democratic solution?

Seems to me you have just arrived in Thailand or don't live here at all. Think twice before you write about something you don't know anything! I've been living here for 28 years, now in the Isaan and I can see firsthand how rampant vote buying is outside of Bangkok. I've seen it with my own eyes over and over again. Just in case you don't know and it seems that this is the case: vote buying has been here for ages and will continue and nobody points fingers, of course, nobody has ever seen anything, My wife is a civil servant ... she was recently elected without any vote buying but we know that those who wanted her place and lost when she won are now in deep debt with huge sums of money ... guess why?

Edited December 27, 2013 by Dario

[JoeLing]

Demonstration is OK, nothing wrong with airing your view. Passive resistance would be an other way to show your grieve but rioting, vandalism and murder is not demonstrating. That's called bullying!

The government already acted to many of the demands but every time the Government makes any concession, this Suthep Dude wants more. He keeps pointing out whenever there might be the slightest infringement of the constitution or the democratic principles but spits on Thailand's constitution not only by boycotting the registration process but obstructing a constitutional process. He want's a complete unconstitutional and undemocratic "Peoples Council". Apart from his personal vendetta, does he even know what he want's for this country or does he just know what he want's for himself.

More even, do those demonstrators know what Suthep wants? Do they know what for a nation they and their children want to live in? Or is just everyone to stupid to think? To stupid to govern themselves?

For sure, Suthep does not want any compromises, no dialog, no constitution, no real government. He's just as power thirsty as Thaksin and none of the two really give a shit about anyone else, definitely not Thailand. In fact no one in Thailand's political world ever gave a shit about Thailand because if they did, Thailand would most likely be one of the most prosperous country in South East Asia.

Now as for the vote buying. If people are selling their "X" on a paper for money, I assume, people will get what they deserve and not what they thought they get. People still have the democratic choice to vote for what they believe in but some believe in the incentive they get, rather then the product they buy.

Seams to me, everyone is just thinking for their own personal gain and gives a shit about Thailand or their children's future?

So as usual, Thailand as a country and the people living here got exactly what they deserve.

SUM NAM NAA

[Spalpeen]

Good for the government, this reactionary gang of thugs and murderers must not be allowed to disrupt the democratic process.

What democratic process? Do you seriously believe any elections in Thailand were democratic? Stop kidding yourself. What is happening these days in Bangkok is exact result of setting red thugs free instead of locking them up for good. As long as you have thugs like Jatuporn and Nattawut occupying public functions instead of being in jail there is no hope for Thailand. Red thugs from 2010 got rewarded for their crimes and terrorism. They set an example that being a thug pays off.

Please give sources for your statements. I'm so tired of hearing "vote buying" without any direct evidence or convictions for voter fraud. Is an unelected committee to run the country a beaming democratic solution?

Seems to me you have just arrived in Thailand or don't live here at all. Think twice before you write about something you don't know anything! I've been living here for 28 years, now in the Isaan and I can see firsthand how rampant vote buying is outside of Bangkok. I've seen it with my own eyes over and over again. Just in case you don't know and it seems that this is the case: vote buying has been here for ages and will continue and nobody points fingers, of course, nobody has ever seen anything, My wife is a civil servant ... she was recently elected without any vote buying but we know that those who wanted her place and lost when she won are now in deep debt with huge sums of money ... guess why?

.

So what you're saying is that, from your experience, vote buying costs 'huge sums of money' and still doesn't work. Sounds like democracy is pretty healthy in Thailand, if what you say is true. Roll on the election.

[thailandpeter2]

the shinawatra family is elitist
the thuergsuban family (suthep) is elistist

abhisit's family is elisit (involved in CP group)

so are many families of ministers in the current government...

so, where is the difference? both groups just want or want to keep power. the 'common people' are mostly used by them only as means to an end...

"Bangkok-based middle class and elite against rural and working-class"

So tired of seeing this lazy cliched copy/paste "journalism". It's certainly not just affluent Bangkok people protesting against the PTP and Shinawatra clan. It's people from many provinces and many walks of life. And please, if anyone is elitist it's the Shinawatra family. By far the richest mob of all, and clearly determined to grab Thailand by the balls through their wealth and influence. Trying to portray the political situation as rich vs. poor is just plain stupid and wrong, and did I mention lazy journalism? The foreign press are especially getting the whole story wrong.

[PeterSmiles]

Delaying the election would keep the current PTP government in power, is that correct?

If that is so then Suthep and the Undems should contest the election and see what the people really want, oops they can't can they, could not get through to register because of the rent a mob.

Hopefully, in the case of military intervention, the Army etc would realise that Suthep et al are the real aggressors and put him and his minions away. But of course it is a very unlikely scenario if the powers behind etc are who it is intimated.

I am thinking that those behind Suthep don't have a year left. They can't have Yingluck as PM when something that is bound to happen happens...

.

Getting close to the truth now !

Strange, but I can think of only one single person who may have not a year left, which is Thaksin, and he for sure isn't behind Suthep's movement .

Care to elaborate who you have in mind and what is bound to happen within the next year.

If it's too sensitive for this forum, feel free to send me a PM.

[ggold]

Same same, Mark clinking to power when order the use of live bullet to disperses the protesters that caused 90+ death. You can form your own view. Most intelligent people can see what is going on.

twisting History doesn't make your comment true! It is well known that Abhisit offered elections in 2010. It was the red Shirts who refused this offer. They had every intention of staying to burn Bangkok unless parliament was dissolved.

The reds would have left in a flash if Abihist said in 2010 we stay in government but Thaksin gets amnesty and his money back.

Yingluck can say what she likes but the next Thaksin government will be the same as the last 3 all about a Thaksin amnesty and his return to rule.

Please don't twist history.

Then: Abhisit offered to dissolved the house on condition that . . . . .

Now: Yingluck ALREADY dissolved the house.

And your point is?

Get your facts right. Simple.

Don't lie

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And exactly what lie do you claim I have made? What facts have I got wrong. or are you another who prefers to twist the facts to suit you're own views?

[rebelplatoon]

The people posting here including sunai phasuk should read this and see the reality of why the Democrats cannot win an election with the playing field being tampered with:

Some people don't seem to understand why this is. It is NOT because Suthep wants to control anything else but the WAY elections are being held. During the Mr. "T" regime the constituencies have been altered to fit the TRT party. Very large constituencies with large numbers of voters would give one party only one seat (These they changed and were Democratic strongholds) much smaller constituencies, with much fewer people were divided up in several constituencies with one seat each. This means that even when people did not vote a 100% for the TRT they would still have a "glorious victory" over the Democrats. It was all made to match the TRT.

In numbers: The TRT and Dems had respectively: 15,744,190 and 11,433,762 people vote for them. A difference in % of the population of resp. (TRT, Dems) 48.41% and 35.15%. (say 13%) This was NOT reflected in the seats in Parliament by the self dividing rule of the TRT who changed the constituencies. (TRT/ Dems) 265 seats against 159 seats or in seats 106 (!!). If this had been in the range of anything like 225 to 196 this would have been a fair and acceptable result. (the difference being about 13%) or in seats 29. Read that again: The difference in what would have been an acceptable and fair divide in seats was 29 but it became 106 !!! This would have allowed (just an example) the Democrats to team up with some other parties and still form a Government. Besides in the opposition it would have given them lots more control.

Then due to certain constituents differences it could have been anything in the range of 210 to 235 for the TRT and 190 to 220 for the Dems and it would be acceptable, justifiable and explainable.

NOW do we understand why this system is unacceptable and nothing near free and fair elections?

Mind you, I do not agree with an interim Government and all that, unless it would be an agreed upon (by both parties) Business Government to boost the country back on the map first. But that would demand restraint, patience and understanding. Values that are the foundation of Buddhism, but are hard to be found in politricks.

[15Peter20]

Thaksin thinks "The Election Must Go On!!!". Pheua Thai Acts accordingly.

How ridiculous. Let me help you out:

The constitution says "The Election Must Go On!!!". Pheua Thai Acts accordingly.

If like Suthep you find the royally-endorsed constitution to be an inconvenience that should be circumvented through street violence, why not just come out and admit it expressly?

Seems to me very recently PTP refused to accept a decision by the Constitution Court, an institution put in place to rule on matters pertaining to the constitution.

It's not that PTP refused to accept their decision, it was that PTP questioned the right of the CC to make that decision. Specifically, a request was made for the CC to make a ruling, but the way in which that request was made fell outside of the protocol required by law.

[Ulic]

Get the election over with as soon as possible. Then move forward with what the people really want. The elimination

of corruption in government and the police force. Show you mean business by rescinding your brothers passport.

Pledge to not bring back the amnesty bill, appoint/find one high ranking policeman to run the force with the express

directive to find honest police chiefs to be chief of police in each province. The highest level of honesty in Phuket, Pattaya,

Get the police to enforce the laws of Thailand and do the investigations expected. Ban the giving of gifts/rewards to policemen.

and Bangkok as that is probably were the greatest level of temptation is. Eliminate the rice pledging scheme and replace

it with programs that will increase productivity and efficiency. Make it easier for ex-pats to stay in Thailand without

jumping through so many hoops. They are a great source of steady foreign funds that keep flowing into the country

through both low and high season. Launch a multi year clean up campaign to keep Thailand clean and return it to its

former splendour. All simple as far as I am concerned. Let the business people run there business under the rule of law.

[tilac2]

I'm sceptical about your claims of changing constuency sizes and its consequences. If it was so unfair, why didn't international observers raise the alarm? By the way, similar complaints have been made in Britain when constiuencies have been changed.

Also, there are examples in other countries of 'unfair' results, in that the vote numbers don't tally with number of MPs elected. e.g. Britain. Even in Thailand, in previous elections there have been anomalies (e.g. in the 1996 election the winning party got fewer votes than the runner-up). I'm not saying that the system should not be adjusted in Thailand, but it is scarcely an excuse for blocking an election. I know you're not advocating that, but others are, using similar excuses.

It seems to me that the Thai electoral system is 'fit for purpose' - though perhaps one couldn't say the same for some of the candidates!

The people posting here including sunai phasuk should read this and see the reality of why the Democrats cannot win an election with the playing field being tampered with:

Some people don't seem to understand why this is. It is NOT because Suthep wants to control anything else but the WAY elections are being held. During the Mr. "T" regime the constituencies have been altered to fit the TRT party. Very large constituencies with large numbers of voters would give one party only one seat (These they changed and were Democratic strongholds) much smaller constituencies, with much fewer people were divided up in several constituencies with one seat each. This means that even when people did not vote a 100% for the TRT they would still have a "glorious victory" over the Democrats. It was all made to match the TRT.

In numbers: The TRT and Dems had respectively: 15,744,190 and 11,433,762 people vote for them. A difference in % of the population of resp. (TRT, Dems) 48.41% and 35.15%. (say 13%) This was NOT reflected in the seats in Parliament by the self dividing rule of the TRT who changed the constituencies. (TRT/ Dems) 265 seats against 159 seats or in seats 106 (!!). If this had been in the range of anything like 225 to 196 this would have been a fair and acceptable result. (the difference being about 13%) or in seats 29. Read that again: The difference in what would have been an acceptable and fair divide in seats was 29 but it became 106 !!! This would have allowed (just an example) the Democrats to team up with some other parties and still form a Government. Besides in the opposition it would have given them lots more control.

Then due to certain constituents differences it could have been anything in the range of 210 to 235 for the TRT and 190 to 220 for the Dems and it would be acceptable, justifiable and explainable.

NOW do we understand why this system is unacceptable and nothing near free and fair elections?

Mind you, I do not agree with an interim Government and all that, unless it would be an agreed upon (by both parties) Business Government to boost the country back on the map first. But that would demand restraint, patience and understanding. Values that are the foundation of Buddhism, but are hard to be found in politricks.

[Thaddeus]

I'll split this in two....

Get the election over with as soon as possible. Then move forward with what the people really want. .

That is delivered.........

The elimination of corruption in government and the police force. Show you mean business by rescinding your brothers passport.

Pledge to not bring back the amnesty bill, appoint/find one high ranking policeman to run the force with the express

directive to find honest police chiefs to be chief of police in each province. The highest level of honesty in Phuket, Pattaya,

Get the police to enforce the laws of Thailand and do the investigations expected. Ban the giving of gifts/rewards to policemen.

and Bangkok as that is probably were the greatest level of temptation is. Eliminate the rice pledging scheme and replace

it with programs that will increase productivity and efficiency. Make it easier for ex-pats to stay in Thailand without

jumping through so many hoops. They are a great source of steady foreign funds that keep flowing into the country

through both low and high season. Launch a multi year clean up campaign to keep Thailand clean and return it to its

former splendour. All simple as far as I am concerned. Let the business people run there business under the rule of law.

None of this will happen.

[KOZMO]

It is apparent the Election Commission (EC) is intimidated by the hardline tactics of Suthep. Certainly, they would prefer a proper election atmosphere for the country. While postponing the elections might temporarily appease Suthep – such an action by the EC might elicit a negative reaction from the disenfranchised.

Oh! You mean Thaksin and the RED shirts and the puppet herself, Yingluck???????????

[Nickymaster]

The government clings on to power? You can form your own view. Most intelligent people can see what is going on.

And what would that be?

Because the amnesty bill gonna come back in what is it now 130 days ( ? ) , and they want to be in power that day to pass it through the lower house.

If there is no government on that particular day, the bill is waisted.

I don't think the bill will be seen again in it's current form. We are witnessing a sea change in Thai society, it's different to previous uprisings. The will of the minority will not prevail in this circumstance, but that does not mean that Thaksin will be coming back any time soon. If push comes to shove as it appears, Suthep will not last. Nor will his loyal supporters. The army will go to the winningest side, in this case it will tacitly support the government. The dems will have to distance themselves from the stuff that's going down in BKK... it's getting too hot in the kitchen. The dems need to make coalition partners and develop a "team" to win a majority, to do this they have to compromise... something they are unaccustomed to. IMHO.

Are you a clairvoyant by any chance?

Edited December 28, 2013 by Nickymaster

[Habs]

Amen

Get the election over with as soon as possible. Then move forward with what the people really want. The elimination

of corruption in government and the police force. Show you mean business by rescinding your brothers passport.

Pledge to not bring back the amnesty bill, appoint/find one high ranking policeman to run the force with the express

directive to find honest police chiefs to be chief of police in each province. The highest level of honesty in Phuket, Pattaya,

Get the police to enforce the laws of Thailand and do the investigations expected. Ban the giving of gifts/rewards to policemen.

and Bangkok as that is probably were the greatest level of temptation is. Eliminate the rice pledging scheme and replace

it with programs that will increase productivity and efficiency. Make it easier for ex-pats to stay in Thailand without

jumping through so many hoops. They are a great source of steady foreign funds that keep flowing into the country

through both low and high season. Launch a multi year clean up campaign to keep Thailand clean and return it to its

former splendour. All simple as far as I am concerned. Let the business people run there business under the rule of law.