Thai government to ask army to secure election

[klauskunkel]

Thai government to ask army to secure election

Answer:

Hmmm, let me check...no, no, Wednesday is no good...uhm, committed for golf, you see...how about the week after?

[seajae]

dont you just love the way the afp articles are so full of shit and the way they praise thaksin and the reds, anyone would think thaksin has shares in it. They never mention the truth of the matter, only innuendo and bullshit, It would be nice to read an article that contains all the truth, not just bits and pieces but then if they afp did that yingluck would be out on her arse because the world would realize how full of shit she and the ptp/redshirts really are. Not that suthep/yellows are any better, its time the truth about all this was exposed and not the appologist crap afp sprook.

[GeorgeO]

Any other country the Army would be told to do it not ask.

I disagree. In any other country the police would be able to deal with it...after all, it is their job...!!

[pumpuiman]

dont you just love the way the afp articles are so full of shit and the way they praise thaksin and the reds, anyone would think thaksin has shares in it. They never mention the truth of the matter, only innuendo and bullshit, It would be nice to read an article that contains all the truth, not just bits and pieces but then if they afp did that yingluck would be out on her arse because the world would realize how full of shit she and the ptp/redshirts really are. Not that suthep/yellows are any better, its time the truth about all this was exposed and not the appologist crap afp sprook.

It would be nice if any Thai media were capable of unbiased reporting.

[diehard60]

"such as an end to alleged "vote buying"". The laws are they so what they really want is that no one from the north and northeast have the right to vote. They want a dictatorship with suthep as the dictator. All the laws are there in place, but NO ONE goes by them.

[diehard60]

I suspect that the Army will reject any involvement in the elections, and indeed, if they are asked, will suggest that such elections should be postponed in order to relieve the current tension.

Things are only going to get worse if YL insists on pushing on with the elections, which are clearly aimed at getting the PTP back in office before the 180-day period expires on the supposedly cancelled Amnesty Bill, at which point they will be able to bring back the fugitive criminal. If that is allowed to happen then the current goings on will seem like Christmas celebrations.

It would be far better for all parties to work together to come up with workable reform plans and then announce free and fair elections in the knowledge that the ultimate victors will be overseen by appropriate bodies providing checks and balances against corruption and frivolous and improper use of state funds.

I do not see these elections taking place since we are likely to see a significant rise in riotous behavior if they do go ahead. Reforms must come first.

Voting is democratic - suthep is dictatorship

[uptheos]

But he did not rule out another coup.

"The door is neither closed nor open. In every situation, anything can happen," he said when asked about the possibility of a coup, without elaborating.

What's the point of voting?

It either is a democracy in which case the army is accountable to the elected government and must keep their nose out of politics, not just have a coup when they fancy one, or it's not a democracy, in which case just let the military rule the country, cos they will if they want to.

[Tarric]

Viewing the current issues as a game of political chess this move has very much put Suthep / Pro Suthep brass in Check. One way or another the brass will be seen as choosing a side even if they stay on the sidelines.

If they try to remain on the sidelines or refuse they will be seen as backing Suthep and looking to justify another coup. It is obvious at this point that the only way Suthep gets his way is if there is another coup that removes the PTP from power.

If they agree to secure the elections publically then its potentially all over for Suthep, with the PTP being backed by the military he may have no choice but to backdown as the protesters dwindle away as the chances of victory disappear.

Both sides are now pushing for an endgame, up until now the PTP have been reasonably happy to be seen as giving concessions and 90% of what the protesters want, however now they are going in for the political kill.

Edit: Grammar

Edited December 27, 2013 by Tarric

[Snig27]

What reforms is Suthep talking about, there has never been anything real with any degree of substance mentioned. The elected government can ask the army but they will not do anything because guess who the silent backer of Suthep is. These demonstrators don't want elections or democracy full stop, they want full, absolute control of everything. Who in their right mind would demonstrate to block elections and support less freedom of speech and more restrictions across the board. The power of a dictator is awesome to behold, he who knows whats best for all of us and if you don't go along with it, you may be killed as a traitor and laughed at. This fight is only about money and power for Suthep

It's interesting that some people conclude that because they don't know what the reforms are that Suthep is suggesting that he therefore must be after absolute control of everything. On what basis do you make those assumptions? He has clearly said reforms then elections in about 12-18 months. He hasn't said anything about taking absolute control, but you jump to those conclusions.

I think the reason why people assume that is because they don't believe he will have elections in 12-18 months and with no constitutional method of ensuring that they are probably correct in that assumption.

It's not as if he is a reliable figure that you would believe, is he? Well, you obviously believe he's truthful, but enquiring people who take his past actions into account probably wouldn't.

Believing suthep is on a par with believing that Thaksin runs the entire country of Thailand from Dubai in between carrying on his normal business deals........

Quite right. Couple that with the overwhelming elephant in the room: Suthep has absolutely no authority to demand anything, whereas Yingluck has an election that gives her the mandate. The election may have been flawed but that doesn't give this man any authority at all, and neither does a mob in the street, no matter the size.

People may not like it but she's the legitimate PM of Thailand until another is elected. Suthep is just a loudmouthed thug with authoritarian leanings and a history to support that.

And, simple common sense tells you that nobody can run a country like Thailand from Dubai. It's utterly nonsensical for people to keep on claiming it.

[Snig27]

Suthep has offered to debate reform proposals on TV this Wednesday, New Year's Day with Yingluck.

Sadly Yingluck refused to join, it's a pity as it would have enabled the Thai public (and all the Thai Visa posters) to have a clear idea about what Suthep and Yingluck propose in detail.

The Democrats will start their reform campaign in the New Year, proposing their blueprint for Thailand's future with changes to the law, such as no statute of limitations on corruption cases, a progressive land tax

Why should she? What authority does he have to ask this? Being a demanding loudmouth on a stage doesn't give him any rights, nor does a mob. The government has already proposed a discussion procedure. The correct way forward for Khun Suthep and the Democrats would be to run in the election. If his/their platform gets public support - and they claim repeatedly it has that - then that's adopted.

This is not rocket science.

[Smokemachine]

AFP: "The security forces denied using live ammunition."

They lie...

So the bullets found on site must be brought by the protestors to flame the so called security forces!

you can see the live ammunitions provided by the police in this clip.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=483884898314633&set=vb.372055249497599&type=2&theater

[Old Man River]

Suthep has offered to debate reform proposals on TV this Wednesday, New Year's Day with Yingluck.

Sadly Yingluck refused to join, it's a pity as it would have enabled the Thai public (and all the Thai Visa posters) to have a clear idea about what Suthep and Yingluck propose in detail.

The Democrats will start their reform campaign in the New Year, proposing their blueprint for Thailand's future with changes to the law, such as no statute of limitations on corruption cases, a progressive land tax

Smart move by YL. Now, if it was held in Dubai, maybe she would have agreed.

[Maha Sarakham Marty]

Even if Yingluck and anyone connected to Thaksin are sent to Mars, the Army will not allow the poor to choose a leader ever again.

Any future candidate proposed by the poor majority will be rejected as a "puppet of Thaksin" no matter what their background or affiliation.

Covering this millenium, when did the poor majority ever propose any candidate?

Yingluck? No.

Somchai? No.

Samak? No.

Thaksin? No.

They were all proposed by Thaksin.

[soi41]

A little off topic, but then again not?

Just back from my daily bike-ride and when I came into town again,by a trafficlight I stood next to a young mother, who had just picked up her young child from school. The mother was wearing a nazistyle WW2 helmet, complete with swastika and all. I don't think she was making a political statement, but just being ignorant and stupid!

Made me think, for all I care, let the Thais choose a buffalo(another one) for their next leader. We are wasting our time here discussing Thai politics!

The level is scary low!

[Snig27]

Even if Yingluck and anyone connected to Thaksin are sent to Mars, the Army will not allow the poor to choose a leader ever again.

Any future candidate proposed by the poor majority will be rejected as a "puppet of Thaksin" no matter what their background or affiliation.

Covering this millenium, when did the poor majority ever propose any candidate?

Yingluck? No.

Somchai? No.

Samak? No.

Thaksin? No.

They were all proposed by Thaksin.

It really doesn't matter who proposed them - were they voted in? If yes, that's all you need to know. It's called democracy.

[Siripon]

Suthep has offered to debate reform proposals on TV this Wednesday, New Year's Day with Yingluck.

Sadly Yingluck refused to join, it's a pity as it would have enabled the Thai public (and all the Thai Visa posters) to have a clear idea about what Suthep and Yingluck propose in detail.

The Democrats will start their reform campaign in the New Year, proposing their blueprint for Thailand's future with changes to the law, such as no statute of limitations on corruption cases, a progressive land tax

Why should she? What authority does he have to ask this? Being a demanding loudmouth on a stage doesn't give him any rights, nor does a mob. The government has already proposed a discussion procedure. The correct way forward for Khun Suthep and the Democrats would be to run in the election. If his/their platform gets public support - and they claim repeatedly it has that - then that's adopted.

This is not rocket science.

The loudmouth on stage has galvanized massive crowds to demand reform, leading to the government hurriedly declaring an election and hastening to join the reform bandwagon to appear 'up to date'.

But the government's discussion forum was even dismissed as ineffective by Khun Issara and the business sector yesterday. It has no credibility, merely a top down procedure, no better than inviting Banharn to lead reform as they did before.

I take your point ,however, regarding political legitimacy, but let me point out the pitfalls of an election prior reform-

Thaksin is sure he will win an election in February because of the loyalty of the grassroots support in Issan and the north. Post election, he thinks he will have the legitimacy to only consider reforms to benefit himself and other politicians-

Up will go the cry- " We returned power to the people, the majority chose us, they entrusted Thailand's future to us, you who oppose us, (let's assume as at the last election 15 million to 11 million) have no right to stop us!'

Reforms to benefit Thai society should not be decided by greedy Thai politicians who equate winning an election with absolute power, they need input and implementation by those who have Thailand's long term interests at heart.

[pumpuiman]

Even if Yingluck and anyone connected to Thaksin are sent to Mars, the Army will not allow the poor to choose a leader ever again.

Any future candidate proposed by the poor majority will be rejected as a "puppet of Thaksin" no matter what their background or affiliation.

Covering this millenium, when did the poor majority ever propose any candidate?

Yingluck? No.

Somchai? No.

Samak? No.

Thaksin? No.

They were all proposed by Thaksin.

In this millennium, who was the only candidate that let the rural poor have a voice? That actually made good on campaign promises to the rural poor?

That's right, Thaksin.....

.but I was trying to point out that any populist candidate will be squashed by Suthep's "council" if allowed to be formed. The poor are looked upon as too stupid to vote by Suthep and company..or have you not been paying attention?

[crobe]

The army will not be needed to secure the election as this will now be postponed.

A constitutional court date scheduled for the 9th/10th January is likely to recommend the banning of 312 politicians who were signatories to the senate change bill and also a disbanding of the PtP due to "voting irregularities" having taken place during the last reading.

Due to this and the EC recommendation to delay the election, the postponement will be announced on January 11th by the army chief of staff and an interim administration is to be set up including military, central bank, academic, commerce and community leaders with a remit to provide a reform agenda within 6 months.

The reform agenda shall include party affiliation and contribution limits, stronger corruption and vote buying penalties, a strengthening of the EC, house and senate party list reforms and cinstituency boundary allocations.

Per interim the government departments will cintinue to function under the direction of the permanent secretaries, however no new spending allocations will be allowed and the annual budget process will not be taking place.

The current water and infrastructure spending plans will be suspended until further notice although ongoing activities for waterway repairs will be continued.

All government departments will instead be allocated a raise in line with inflation on 1st October.

If the reform agenda is completed then this will be submitted to national referendum on 1st November followed ratification of the constitutionsl court and by new elections after 90 days if the referendum is successful.

[Old Man River]

Even if Yingluck and anyone connected to Thaksin are sent to Mars, the Army will not allow the poor to choose a leader ever again.

Any future candidate proposed by the poor majority will be rejected as a "puppet of Thaksin" no matter what their background or affiliation.

Covering this millenium, when did the poor majority ever propose any candidate?

Yingluck? No.

Somchai? No.

Samak? No.

Thaksin? No.

They were all proposed by Thaksin.

It really doesn't matter who proposed them - were they voted in? If yes, that's all you need to know. It's called democracy.

That is all we need to know? Really? Then all you need to know is this country is in horrible economic shape. It is called mismanagement.

[Neurath]

I suspect that the Army will reject any involvement in the elections, and indeed, if they are asked, will suggest that such elections should be postponed in order to relieve the current tension.

Things are only going to get worse if YL insists on pushing on with the elections, which are clearly aimed at getting the PTP back in office before the 180-day period expires on the supposedly cancelled Amnesty Bill, at which point they will be able to bring back the fugitive criminal. If that is allowed to happen then the current goings on will seem like Christmas celebrations.

It would be far better for all parties to work together to come up with workable reform plans and then announce free and fair elections in the knowledge that the ultimate victors will be overseen by appropriate bodies providing checks and balances against corruption and frivolous and improper use of state funds.

I do not see these elections taking place since we are likely to see a significant rise in riotous behavior if they do go ahead. Reforms must come first.

It's just very hard to envision what sorts of reforms could possibly do the job. Amending laws and regulations and drafting a new Constitution will not ensure that elections are free and fair. Wouldn't ensure that corruption in high places is seriously tackled either. The problem isn't the lack of laws, regulations or a "properly" formed constitution. The problem is that laws and regulations and constitutions (very much the plural in Thailand) are habitually circumvented and perverted. And that for pretty much everyone, following the person comes well before following the law. It's the loser that is forced to follow follow the law/regulations, and forced to do so by the person who seldom does so and who and grows rich in not doing so. Serious enforcement of extant laws and regulations (whatever they might be now and whatever they might be in the future) is not one of the idols of the tribe and there are no good reasons for thinking that a different set of laws and regulations would be enforced any better. The problem is not "legal/constitutional" but cultural. When ranking public officials, civil servants and wealthy people of power start being imprisoned with some consistency and regularity change will have been made and had. Without that, something that could be had now, a new set of laws, a new constitution, new instrumentalities under a new constitution would be quickly rendered as meaningless as the current set and the set before that.

[MaiChai]

People forget the hierarchical structure here. At the the top is the King and royal family, below them is the military and below that is government and politics. Thus government has to ask military and military can say no.

Remember the floods last year when the police were not helping people? The army came out then. They are the point of last resort and are there for the King, people and country. Thus they are also outside politics. I would expect them to remain neutral. Also this may put army against people and pulls them into politics.

[bkksteviejai]

If by "reform" K.Suthep means that one vote from the North and Northeast only counts as 1/2........then maybe someone else can have a pop in the hot seat.

Another year of the same policies from this government may of pushed some traditional voters away from Peua Thai anyway. All this will do is galvanize them isn't it?. Regardless of populist policies and the vote buying etc etc, people are going to feel very aggrieved that their vote apparently counts for <deleted> all. Student gangs will be the least of the worries then.

Maybe I'm completely wrong and Thaksin / Peua Thai are already on the slide. In which case we shall see that reflected in the election result.

[Ulic]

Protesters have crossed the Rubicon, they have announced they will not be participating and have not registered

there candidates. Suthep is all in, game on. What shall be shall be. Suthep wants to be supreme leader.

Don't bother with the elections, make the announcement.

[1ma]

The Thai government appealed to the military Friday to provide security for February elections after violent clashes between police and opposition protesters left two people dead and more than 150 wounded.

It really highlights the nature of the Thais.

[Mudcrab]

What reforms is Suthep talking about, there has never been anything real with any degree of substance mentioned. The elected government can ask the army but they will not do anything because guess who the silent backer of Suthep is. These demonstrators don't want elections or democracy full stop, they want full, absolute control of everything. Who in their right mind would demonstrate to block elections and support less freedom of speech and more restrictions across the board. The power of a dictator is awesome to behold, he who knows whats best for all of us and if you don't go along with it, you may be killed as a traitor and laughed at. This fight is only about money and power for Suthep

Do tell....who is the silent backer??

[Mudcrab]

A little off topic, but then again not?

Just back from my daily bike-ride and when I came into town again,by a trafficlight I stood next to a young mother, who had just picked up her young child from school. The mother was wearing a nazistyle WW2 helmet, complete with swastika and all. I don't think she was making a political statement, but just being ignorant and stupid!

Made me think, for all I care, let the Thais choose a buffalo(another one) for their next leader. We are wasting our time here discussing Thai politics!

The level is scary low!

why is it ignorant or stupid? She was wearing a helmet (good thing to do). Why do you think she should be aware of what happened half a world away, two lifetimes away? Give it a miss old son. The Nazis have been and gone in the German sense, And stop calling all Thais buffaloes, it makes you sound ignorant. If you feel you are wasting your time discussing Thai politics here feel free to stop at any time.

[rreddin]

Any other country the Army would be told to do it not ask.

In many countries, the army support the police when requested to do so by the appropriate minister of the government - be that national government or state government. In those situations the army is doing police work and is usually under the control of the police. The response of the Supreme Commander will be telling if a request is made to him for troops to support the police. A refusal will lead just about the whole country to believe the army is backing Suthep. Then, whatever they do, the army is is a no win situation.

[pumpuiman]

What reforms is Suthep talking about, there has never been anything real with any degree of substance mentioned. The elected government can ask the army but they will not do anything because guess who the silent backer of Suthep is. These demonstrators don't want elections or democracy full stop, they want full, absolute control of everything. Who in their right mind would demonstrate to block elections and support less freedom of speech and more restrictions across the board. The power of a dictator is awesome to behold, he who knows whats best for all of us and if you don't go along with it, you may be killed as a traitor and laughed at. This fight is only about money and power for Suthep

Do tell....who is the silent backer??

Suthep is backed by General Prawit Wongsuwan and General Anupong Paochinda as reported repeatedly in world media.

"Military sources say protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban is backed by two powerful retired generals, former Defense minister General Prawit Wongsuwan and former army chief General Anupong Paochinda. Both have a history of enmity with Thaksin and remain influential in the current military establishment."

one of many articles.....http://mobile.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSBRE9BE07U20131215?irpc=932

Edited December 27, 2013 by pumpuiman

[tezzainoz]

What reforms is Suthep talking about, there has never been anything real with any degree of substance mentioned. The elected government can ask the army but they will not do anything because guess who the silent backer of Suthep is. These demonstrators don't want elections or democracy full stop, they want full, absolute control of everything. Who in their right mind would demonstrate to block elections and support less freedom of speech and more restrictions across the board. The power of a dictator is awesome to behold, he who knows whats best for all of us and if you don't go along with it, you may be killed as a traitor and laughed at. This fight is only about money and power for Suthep

"This fight is only about money and power for Suthep"

Suthep is the Army's puppet. This is about removing any populist leader, denying the majority a say in future elections, and returning the Bangkok elite to power.

So because it is your opinion it must be right

(My thai wife would like to say to you)

please show pic of your Thai ID Card

if not Go home you have no right f say in Thailand

[tezzainoz]

Even if Yingluck and anyone connected to Thaksin are sent to Mars, the Army will not allow the poor to choose a leader ever again.

Any future candidate proposed by the poor majority will be rejected as a "puppet of Thaksin" no matter what their background or affiliation.

Covering this millenium, when did the poor majority ever propose any candidate?

Yingluck? No.

Somchai? No.

Samak? No.

Thaksin? No.

They were all proposed by Thaksin.

In this millennium, who was the only candidate that let the rural poor have a voice? That actually made good on campaign promises to the rural poor?

That's right, Thaksin.....

.but I was trying to point out that any populist candidate will be squashed by Suthep's "council" if allowed to be formed. The poor are looked upon as too stupid to vote by Suthep and company..or have you not been paying attention?

Please not re write Thai history for your own sake

I was there and he gave with one hand

and took twice as much away with the other

My Thai wife's family are worse of now than before Thaskin mad promises he did not keep

Sad to say his Sisters comes from the same Mold