Democrat leader Abhisit urges govt action to end political crisis

[Skywalker69]

I thought Mark had been a bit quiet recently after his vow to take to the streets with his fellow Thais to protest against the government. Looking at the photo the cheeky bugger's obviously been less concerned with true democracy and an end to tyranny in Thailand and more interested in winning the " 25th Annual 6th District Pie Eating Competition"

Technically, Mark is out of job at the moment and has no other work experience other than wearing a suit and being ignored in the parliament.

You home made meals can do to a jobless man. Cheeky burger.

and has no other work experience other than wearing a suit and being ignored in ignoring the parliament.

You must mean Ceartaker PM Yingluck.

[craigt3365]

Technically, Mark is out of job at the moment and has no other work experience other than wearing a suit and being ignored in the parliament.

You home made meals can do to a jobless man. Cheeky burger.

and has no other work experience other than wearing a suit and being ignored in ignoring the parliament.

You must mean Ceartaker PM Yingluck.

Hate to nitpick, but posting inaccurate information is not good:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abhisit_Vejjajiva

After moving to Thailand, he received a bachelor's degree in law from Thailand's Ramkhamhaeng University, and taught at Chulachomklao Royal Military Academy^%5B24%5D and Thammasat University Faculty of Economics.

[DGIE]

Wasn't it his group that actually started this "crisis"?

Abhisit should have addressed his message to Suthep too. He is also adding (not just political) crisis to Thailand

[blabth]

Let's not forget what got us here. A government who ignored the law of the land, is engaged in massive corruption, and is anything but democratic. Thus, the huge numbers of protesters. Many of whom are not yellow shirts, are not democrats and are not amart. Just tired of the current governments lies. Hard to argue with them.

This could have all been avoided by killing the amnesty bill instead of trying to ram it through. Or at least accept Abhisit's proposal to exclude himself, Suthep and Thaksin from it. That request was ignored.

amnesty bill is long gone - the government has called an election - why are people still dying?...

The amnesty bill is not dead, just so we are correct here. It can be brought back up after 180 days. Big reason people are still protesting. The bill can be passed very quickly now with NO debate.

Not true, and even if it was, so what, if a government proposes a bill and wins the vote, it has every right to enact said bill.

As more it is important that the democrats would have participated in the snap election. Only when there is a real opposition laws can not pass easily. BTW the the system is working you can see it on the amnesty bill, which finally did not pass as there is a strong opposition and a constitutional court. Instead to be proud to have a functional system now S is making a mockery out of it.

Edited December 29, 2013 by blabth

[Thailand]

A majority did vote for the PTP, why do you come on here spouting your bs when you don't have a basic knowledge of the situation?

Last I checked, 48% is not a majority. What the PTP did manage was to get a majority of the seats, but its possible to get that with 20% of the vote.

Sent from my phone ...

What percentage did the Dems get?

[englishoak]

So lets look at this chaps track record.

Upon becoming Premiere, Abhisit promised to enforce the rule of law and prosecute the 21 Peoples Alliance for Democracy leaders who were responsible for seizing Don Muang and Suvarnabhumi Airports. As of February 2010, arrest warrants still had not been issued for the airport seizures.

Asian Financial Crisis. Human Rights Watch called Abhisit "the most prolific censor in recent Thai history" and Freedom House downgraded Thailand's rating of media freedom to "not free. Abhisit also advocated for stronger anti-corruption measures, although several members of his Cabinet resigned due to corruption scandals and parts of his economic stimulus packages were criticized for instances of alleged corruption.

Abhisit's government saw unemployment increase by 63 percent.Thailand's government budget went into deficit for the first time since 2003. By 2010, the government's debt had bloomed and reached -4.8% of GDP, the largest budget deficit since the government of Chuan Leekpai.

Large-scale fighting erupted several times between Thai and Cambodian troops near Preah Vihear, leaving dozens dead. The Thai military admitted to using cluster munitions in the conflicts. The Southern Thailand insurgency worsened, and Abhisit's government was condemned by several international human rights groups for the routine and systematic torture of suspected insurgents. Thailand's military budget reached its highest level in over a decade.

Abhisit's information and communications technology (ICT) policy included increased censorship of Internet sites the government considered deemed offensive to the monarchy, cancellation of 3G 2.1 gigahertz spectrum license auctions, and larger budgets for government-owned TOT.

Upon his appointment as Prime Minister in 2008, Abhisit's officially declared personal assets worth 51.8 million baht (nearly $2 million). This increased to 54.4 million upon leaving office. Given that Abhisit has never worked in the private sector, the vast majority of his wealth was either inherited or given to him.

A self made man with plenty of private business experience and real world contact with the normal people then.....

Foot note .. direct quote

"We cannot and do not support any kind of extra-constitutional change, but it is done. The country has to move forward and the best way forward is for the coup leaders to quickly return power to the people and carry out the reforms they promised. They have to prove themselves. I urge them to lift all restrictions as soon as possible. There is no need to write a brand new constitution. They could make changes to the 1997 constitution and if that's the case, there is no reason to take a year. Six months is a good time"

reform reform reform now where have we heard that before ?......... yea another talking head.

source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abhisit_Vejjajiva

Edited December 29, 2013 by englishoak

[Yunla]

Re; the Amnesty Bill, yes it was completely outrageous, as were many of the actions of PTP most notably distributing home-address details of judges where their families lived etc. Absolutely terrible behaviour, you wouldn't accept it in a street level feud so why accept it at state level. The Thaksin passport issue was also outrageous. Rice pledging, tabs, slow infrastructure reforms. Their term so far has been a huge failure on almost every level.

But on the Amnesty Bill, it has become a symbol of problem/solution in Thailand. When a nation has normalised macro-corruption on all levels, to have a free-and-easy Parliament doesn't work. What Thai Parliament could do is have policy-locks and consensus-based voting, percentage-based not on numbers but on groups. To not have Parliamentary reform in Thailand is an entirely self-imposed artificial d-block (democracy block) if you will forgive the pun, there is really no reason for them to not tailor the suit to fit the body.

In addition to altering the bill-passage / policy queueing systems, to prevent the clear majority from playing with a rigged deck, there have to be (in capslock) new Parliamentary watchdogs appointed, which filter out corrupt policies and bills on the very simple grounds that they "waste Government work time" which should certainly be a crime. If you work in a factory and you decide to spend your work time playing Angry Birds, you get sacked, but if you work in Parliament and spend your time on Thaksin's passport, you don't get sacked. Parliament work time is for policies that are for the good of the nation, full stop, nothing else should reach the floor ever.

But really these are 'self imposed artifical blocks' within Parliament. They can be solved there, and in the other higher state modules. The main thing is that people are dying in the streets again over what are entirely artificial Parliamentary rules which are by their very nature open to augmentation, especially in an emergency. Both sides need to discuss this and find a state-level solution. One single death is too many, and we have already had several.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Yunla

[hellodolly]

Yingluck said she "wants peace not power", but everything she has done belies that. It is that easy for her to step down, except that means she (and Thaksin) won't be in power. They can't handle that.

Lol we made quite a mess to finally find out we agree on something. Thaksin family is greedy of money and power. I will add Suthep it is as well.

Except Suthep's greed has not done near the damage to Thailand that the Shinawatra's has.

He has talent! Let's give him the country and let see if he can expand the pearls he did with Phuket lands and palm oil.

If remove the Shin clan because their obvious corruption, and let another rotten corrupt get the power Thailand will be still in the same s..t

Makes no sense Suthep did some shady deals in Phuket. So you want to leave in a clan that has raped all of Thailand and is continuing to do so.

I would invite you to check out their performance at

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2013/results/

fab4 tells me they have refined it to be more accurate. They have gone from 88 to 102 in being the least corrupt.

Besides I still am waiting to hear from a source other than an opinion on Thai Visa they Suthep is intending to be the ruler of the country.

Yes he does have talent he stoped the red shirt insurrection in 2010. could you have done that or would you have surrendered.

[whybother]

A majority did vote for the PTP, why do you come on here spouting your bs when you don't have a basic knowledge of the situation?

Last I checked, 48% is not a majority. What the PTP did manage was to get a majority of the seats, but its possible to get that with 20% of the vote.

Sent from my phone ...

What percentage did the Dems get?

*sigh*

[newcomer71]

Except Suthep's greed has not done near the damage to Thailand that the Shinawatra's has.

He has talent! Let's give him the country and let see if he can expand the pearls he did with Phuket lands and palm oil.

If remove the Shin clan because their obvious corruption, and let another rotten corrupt get the power Thailand will be still in the same s..t

Makes no sense Suthep did some shady deals in Phuket. So you want to leave in a clan that has raped all of Thailand and is continuing to do so.

I would invite you to check out their performance at

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2013/results/

fab4 tells me they have refined it to be more accurate. They have gone from 88 to 102 in being the least corrupt.

Besides I still am waiting to hear from a source other than an opinion on Thai Visa they Suthep is intending to be the ruler of the country.

Yes he does have talent he stoped the red shirt insurrection in 2010. could you have done that or would you have surrendered.

Did you ever read I want Shinawatra still govern this country? Don't write things I never wrote.

I don't like Shins, I don't like Suthep. Did I make myself clear?

Suthep wants an unelected Council People and said it will be in charge for time to make reforms (12-18) months.

The previous government, where Suthep was in charge, did not make a political reform in more than 2 years and half.

Said that, peace. I won't play your game here...

[mumjokmok]

What next ? will people that think the way you do be calling for the PTP to be listed as a terrorist organisation as they did in Egypt with Morsi who was also properly elected by the majority of voters ?

Very interesting is a comparison to Egypt, the Egyptian's have now managed to cram over a decades worth of Thai political drama into a couple action-packed years in their country. If the Thai's were as poltically motivated, mature and had a comparable history, they may have sorted out their differences by now and have some plan to move forwards with.

Without revered political icons such as General Nasser and short of actually tolerating a despised dictator such as Mubarak for- count them- thirty years, the Thai's may not know what to expect next from their politicians. Maybe they should stop focussing so heavily on the internal blame games of their officials and look to the outside world as their current political situation seems to afford them some solidarity with a number of other nations at present. Might give regular Thai's a clue to what demands are usually put to new prime ministers and presidents, and might provide greater clues to what is likely to happen when a bunch of wealthy people decide to have a big dispute over a nation's future that involves the whole population taking to the streets to voice their concerns.

Begs the question then- will the U.S. eventually turn it's back on the Shinawatra's, or are they considered the strongest party fit to govern and will be supported as long as they win elections?

[Thailand]

A majority did vote for the PTP, why do you come on here spouting your bs when you don't have a basic knowledge of the situation?

Last I checked, 48% is not a majority. What the PTP did manage was to get a majority of the seats, but its possible to get that with 20% of the vote.

Sent from my phone ...

What percentage did the Dems get?

*sigh*

Come on now, it was less than 48 per cent PTP got wasn't it?

Don't be embarrassed you can say it.

[whybother]

Come on now, it was less than 48 per cent PTP got wasn't it?

Don't be embarrassed you can say it.

It still doesn't magically make 48% a majority.

[englishoak]

OMG lol

[whybother]

Did you ever read I want Shinawatra still govern this country? Don't write things I never wrote.

I don't like Shins, I don't like Suthep. Did I make myself clear?

Suthep wants an unelected Council People and said it will be in charge for time to make reforms (12-18) months.

The previous government, where Suthep was in charge, did not make a political reform in more than 2 years and half.

Said that, peace. I won't play your game here...

After the 2010 protests, the Abhisit government set up a neutral reform committee that released their report around the time of the election. The current government haven't acted on any of their suggestions.

[newcomer71]

Did you ever read I want Shinawatra still govern this country? Don't write things I never wrote.

I don't like Shins, I don't like Suthep. Did I make myself clear?

Suthep wants an unelected Council People and said it will be in charge for time to make reforms (12-18) months.

The previous government, where Suthep was in charge, did not make a political reform in more than 2 years and half.

Said that, peace. I won't play your game here...

After the 2010 protests, the Abhisit government set up a neutral reform committee that released their report around the time of the election. The current government haven't acted on any of their suggestions.

You not get my point:

if the system is wrong as Suthep said. I guess the first priority is doing reforms about it, right? He is squealing that every night.

And he said his council will take 12-18 months for make the reforms.

Now, how that would be possible if in 2 years and half they were not able to make even ONE political reform? (Maybe they just loved and enjoyed the corrupt system at that time and did not want the reform).

And why anyway if it's so urgent they did not start the panel back in 2009? Why wait people protest and bloodshed if reform are so necessary?

[mumjokmok]

Did you ever read I want Shinawatra still govern this country? Don't write things I never wrote.

I don't like Shins, I don't like Suthep. Did I make myself clear?

Suthep wants an unelected Council People and said it will be in charge for time to make reforms (12-18) months.

The previous government, where Suthep was in charge, did not make a political reform in more than 2 years and half.

Said that, peace. I won't play your game here...

After the 2010 protests, the Abhisit government set up a neutral reform committee that released their report around the time of the election. The current government haven't acted on any of their suggestions.

You not get my point:

if the system is wrong as Suthep said. I guess the first priority is doing reforms about it, right? He is squealing that every night.

And he said his council will take 12-18 months for make the reforms.

Now, how that would be possible if in 2 years and half they were not able to make even ONE political reform? (Maybe they just loved and enjoyed the corrupt system at that time and did not want the reform).

And why anyway if it's so urgent they did not start the panel back in 2009? Why wait people protest and bloodshed if reform are so necessary?

Because emergency reforms to halt longrunning bloodshed and division gives you a firmer pretense for holding power by force during the next 12-18 months of political and economic uncertainty, particularly if you know you can't win the vote.

[Gonsalviz]

What government? The one you killed?

[gerry1011]

So lets look at this chaps track record.

Upon becoming Premiere, Abhisit promised to enforce the rule of law and prosecute the 21 Peoples Alliance for Democracy leaders who were responsible for seizing Don Muang and Suvarnabhumi Airports. As of February 2010, arrest warrants still had not been issued for the airport seizures.

Asian Financial Crisis. Human Rights Watch called Abhisit "the most prolific censor in recent Thai history" and Freedom House downgraded Thailand's rating of media freedom to "not free. Abhisit also advocated for stronger anti-corruption measures, although several members of his Cabinet resigned due to corruption scandals and parts of his economic stimulus packages were criticized for instances of alleged corruption.

Abhisit's government saw unemployment increase by 63 percent.Thailand's government budget went into deficit for the first time since 2003. By 2010, the government's debt had bloomed and reached -4.8% of GDP, the largest budget deficit since the government of Chuan Leekpai.

Large-scale fighting erupted several times between Thai and Cambodian troops near Preah Vihear, leaving dozens dead. The Thai military admitted to using cluster munitions in the conflicts. The Southern Thailand insurgency worsened, and Abhisit's government was condemned by several international human rights groups for the routine and systematic torture of suspected insurgents. Thailand's military budget reached its highest level in over a decade.

Abhisit's information and communications technology (ICT) policy included increased censorship of Internet sites the government considered deemed offensive to the monarchy, cancellation of 3G 2.1 gigahertz spectrum license auctions, and larger budgets for government-owned TOT.

Upon his appointment as Prime Minister in 2008, Abhisit's officially declared personal assets worth 51.8 million baht (nearly $2 million). This increased to 54.4 million upon leaving office. Given that Abhisit has never worked in the private sector, the vast majority of his wealth was either inherited or given to him.

A self made man with plenty of private business experience and real world contact with the normal people then.....

Foot note .. direct quote

"We cannot and do not support any kind of extra-constitutional change, but it is done. The country has to move forward and the best way forward is for the coup leaders to quickly return power to the people and carry out the reforms they promised. They have to prove themselves. I urge them to lift all restrictions as soon as possible. There is no need to write a brand new constitution. They could make changes to the 1997 constitution and if that's the case, there is no reason to take a year. Six months is a good time"

reform reform reform now where have we heard that before ?......... yea another talking head.

source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abhisit_Vejjajiva

Good summary of Abhisit's "achievements"...

Thanks.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[DK2223]

Did you ever read I want Shinawatra still govern this country? Don't write things I never wrote.

I don't like Shins, I don't like Suthep. Did I make myself clear?

Suthep wants an unelected Council People and said it will be in charge for time to make reforms (12-18) months.

The previous government, where Suthep was in charge, did not make a political reform in more than 2 years and half.

Said that, peace. I won't play your game here...

After the 2010 protests, the Abhisit government set up a neutral reform committee that released their report around the time of the election. The current government haven't acted on any of their suggestions.

You not get my point:

if the system is wrong as Suthep said. I guess the first priority is doing reforms about it, right? He is squealing that every night.

And he said his council will take 12-18 months for make the reforms.

Now, how that would be possible if in 2 years and half they were not able to make even ONE political reform? (Maybe they just loved and enjoyed the corrupt system at that time and did not want the reform).

And why anyway if it's so urgent they did not start the panel back in 2009? Why wait people protest and bloodshed if reform are so necessary?

Because emergency reforms to halt longrunning bloodshed and division gives you a firmer pretense for holding power by force during the next 12-18 months of political and economic uncertainty, particularly if you know you can't win the vote.

So does this mean by the end, all Suthep want after all the chaos is that he just want to hold the power? (so someone please tell him stop all the selling and go in front of the people, the government and the military and tell them that all I (Suthep) want is you give me the power to control and I will stop all this). So this is more easy for all side to do their jobs.

Edited December 29, 2013 by DK2223

[123thaibourbon]

Oxford wolf guarding The Privy Council foxhole..

[wolfmanjack]

So lets look at this chaps track record.

Upon becoming Premiere, Abhisit promised to enforce the rule of law and prosecute the 21 Peoples Alliance for Democracy leaders who were responsible for seizing Don Muang and Suvarnabhumi Airports. As of February 2010, arrest warrants still had not been issued for the airport seizures.

Asian Financial Crisis. Human Rights Watch called Abhisit "the most prolific censor in recent Thai history" and Freedom House downgraded Thailand's rating of media freedom to "not free. Abhisit also advocated for stronger anti-corruption measures, although several members of his Cabinet resigned due to corruption scandals and parts of his economic stimulus packages were criticized for instances of alleged corruption.

Abhisit's government saw unemployment increase by 63 percent.Thailand's government budget went into deficit for the first time since 2003. By 2010, the government's debt had bloomed and reached -4.8% of GDP, the largest budget deficit since the government of Chuan Leekpai.

Large-scale fighting erupted several times between Thai and Cambodian troops near Preah Vihear, leaving dozens dead. The Thai military admitted to using cluster munitions in the conflicts. The Southern Thailand insurgency worsened, and Abhisit's government was condemned by several international human rights groups for the routine and systematic torture of suspected insurgents. Thailand's military budget reached its highest level in over a decade.

Abhisit's information and communications technology (ICT) policy included increased censorship of Internet sites the government considered deemed offensive to the monarchy, cancellation of 3G 2.1 gigahertz spectrum license auctions, and larger budgets for government-owned TOT.

Upon his appointment as Prime Minister in 2008, Abhisit's officially declared personal assets worth 51.8 million baht (nearly $2 million). This increased to 54.4 million upon leaving office. Given that Abhisit has never worked in the private sector, the vast majority of his wealth was either inherited or given to him.

A self made man with plenty of private business experience and real world contact with the normal people then.....

Foot note .. direct quote

"We cannot and do not support any kind of extra-constitutional change, but it is done. The country has to move forward and the best way forward is for the coup leaders to quickly return power to the people and carry out the reforms they promised. They have to prove themselves. I urge them to lift all restrictions as soon as possible. There is no need to write a brand new constitution. They could make changes to the 1997 constitution and if that's the case, there is no reason to take a year. Six months is a good time"

reform reform reform now where have we heard that before ?......... yea another talking head.

source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abhisit_Vejjajiva

"Upon his appointment as Prime Minister in 2008, Abhisit's officially declared personal assets worth 51.8 million baht (nearly $2 million). This increased to 54.4 million upon leaving office. Given that Abhisit has never worked in the private sector, the vast majority of his wealth was either inherited or given to him."

I would rather have a PM that inherited his money than one that gained his money by dishonest means. A 2.6 million baht increase after being the PM for as long as he was is not much of an increase. Less than 2% a year? There are a lot of stocks that pay more than that in dividends. I can't see him getting nailed for corruption using the "unusually rich" method of catching criminals.

[whybother]

Whybother, you're wrong.

Check the dictionary defintion. Nothing mentioned about over 50%.

i

The larger number or part of something:

The majority of the employees have

In an election, the difference in the number of votes between the winning person or group and the one thauniversity degrees.

A large majority of people approve of the death sentence.

In Britain women are in the/a majority.t comes second:

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majority

A majority is a subset of a set consisting of more than half of the set's elements. This can be compared to a plurality, which is a subset larger than any other subset considered; i.e. a plurality is not necessarily a majority as the largest subset considered may consist of less than half the set's elements.

Free Dictionary:http://www.thefreedictionary.com/majority

The greater number or part; a number more than half of the total.

Merriam Webster http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/majority

ma·jor·i·ty noun \mə-ˈjȯr-ə-tē, -ˈjär-\

: a number that is greater than half of a total

: a number of votes that is more than half of the total number

[craigt3365]

whybother's post above has been left, many others have been removed. NO more off topic posts about what constitutes a majority or posting holidays will be handed out.

Back to the original topic, please.