Fish Farm , a good venture or not

[N47HAN]

HI all , first post in this forum so go gentle

Without going into details I would intially like the general opinion of fish farms from more experienced members.

Do you find it viable for returns ?

I know there are tremendous variables depending on costs , location , etc.etc.

But in principle providing correct plans are made would you say that it is worth the time to persue ?

Please note , this would be by no means my primary income but more of a secondry start up buisiness .

Yes i guess i could invest the capital into an investment portfolio , but want to see opinions first.

I apolagise its very vague as an intial post , but dint want to go into all the details intially. Just rather a feel for the general concensus of the idea , preferably from you guys allready in the buisiness.

Thx

[RedBullHorn]

What type of fish would you be interested in farming ? Tilapia or Clarias catfish ?

Both type are making money...

But you need to have a better understanding on how the business works, not just about rearing fishes and finding a buyer later...

"profit is made at the buying, not at the selling..." - tingtong

Edited January 2, 2014 by RedBullHorn

[N47HAN]

The fish would be pla - nin. , more of an investor to be fair on a 50/50 split on nett profits

Have an option of 4 - 8 rai plots , holding approx 20k fish each .

The figures I have at the moment seem to add up , but would be good to get an independant review of expected nett returns from you guys to see if they match up.

I think the cost of the land will be important in your advice to me.

Each plot is in nakhon chaisi @ 10k per year rent.

All paperwork issues and legal stuff etc etc are fine , just looking at what you think the expected nett may be on that over the 8 months or so for the fish to grow to 1kilo.

Please if i need to be more clear let me know what else i should be letting you guys know without going on and on wirh stuff thats not relevant.

Thx again

[N47HAN]

* Tilapia

[RedBullHorn]

For Pla Nin, you need to ask Ozzydom, he's our resident expert for farming Pla Nin...

[tingtong]

There is a Tilapia thread or two on this forum, OD's thread contains plenty info about growing...

Just a quick question:

Do you have a ready market to sell 4x20k tilapia? That isnt a few to sell from the farm, neither door-to door; not even a single market stand will handle such volume...on avarage that ( you intend to go for 1kg each) is 80 ton!

Also, it is fantastic that you have cheap rental plot, but obviously the major cost will be the feed...and right next to it probably comes guarding your fish!!

If all else sorted out, and find a way to get your monosex frys, a feed supplier for the right price, and most importantly wholesale buyer....then, and just then, it probably would make as good a return as an avarage investment portfolio would, and maybe some more.

Without a committed buyer at start, to go for it is crazy! ( and a potentially very costly mistake).

[ozzydom]

The fish would be pla - nin. , more of an investor to be fair on a 50/50 split on nett profits

Have an option of 4 - 8 rai plots , holding approx 20k fish each .

The figures I have at the moment seem to add up , but would be good to get an independant review of expected nett returns from you guys to see if they match up.

I think the cost of the land will be important in your advice to me.

Each plot is in nakhon chaisi @ 10k per year rent.

All paperwork issues and legal stuff etc etc are fine , just looking at what you think the expected nett may be on that over the 8 months or so for the fish to grow to 1kilo.

Please if i need to be more clear let me know what else i should be letting you guys know without going on and on wirh stuff thats not relevant.

Thx again

I take it that you mean 4 x 8 rai ponds @ 20k fishes = 2,500 fish per rai.

That number is doable ,as long as water quality ,aeration and management is spot on (and all the planets align).

BUT, maximum stocking like that is fraught with dangers, one blip and they all go down the gurgler.

I am pretty sure nobody on here farms those kind of numbers and only David48,s in laws farm such large ponds.

Perhaps it would be more pertinent to show the figures you have been given, for us to check against our figures.

Is the business now operating with plant ,equipment ,labour and management plus stock in situ.

You are looking at near 8000 baht per day in feed costs per pond

[ozzydom]

There is a Tilapia thread or two on this forum, OD's thread contains plenty info about growing...

Just a quick question:

Do you have a ready market to sell 4x20k tilapia? That isnt a few to sell from the farm, neither door-to door; not even a single market stand will handle such volume...on avarage that ( you intend to go for 1kg each) is 80 ton!

Also, it is fantastic that you have cheap rental plot, but obviously the major cost will be the feed...and right next to it probably comes guarding your fish!!

If all else sorted out, and find a way to get your monosex frys, a feed supplier for the right price, and most importantly wholesale buyer....then, and just then, it probably would make as good a return as an avarage investment portfolio would, and maybe some more.

Without a committed buyer at start, to go for it is crazy! ( and a potentially very costly mistake).

I raised a few points in my post above,but I am at present in Udon and will comment further when I go back to the farm for the weekend.

Harvesting a 8 rai pond needs a big seine net and heaps of labour .

The 1kg target weight indicates they may be for a processor or very large wholesaler, either way means lower price to that which we enjoy.

If the OP is talking of 1 kg average weight, he may be looking at nearer 12 months in such a heavily stocked pond.

Heavy stocking creates a large disparity in growth rates in Tilapia, ie. when 20 % reach 1 kg the remaining 80 % will be anywhere from 500 gram upwards.so the final harvest weight is a lottery as is the nett return..

I dont have a calculator with me but feeding 3% of biomass daily at about 28 baht kg runs into big bikkies.

[David48]

Mate (OP) ... everyone has a different take on what works.

There is an excellent collective pool of knowledge on what has been tried and proved less then successful and what has proven to work year-in, year-out.

If you are prepared to do the reading, I tried to bring all the information here from hobby farming, tanks, filters, earthen ponds, natural feeding (ozzydom), Thai method (myself and my partner MissFarmGirl) both using PlaNin and RedBullHorn who harvests CatFish.

All different methods and hopefully, this resource fish-farms-201, contains all the recent links on the subject. If you have questions, maybe go to the individual thread and not reply in the 201 thread as it's more an 'Index' then anything else.

If you are focusing on PlaNin, and Ozzy, jump in at any time and correct me but ... ozzydom runs a 'natural' method where he develops an algae bloom in his pond and this is the main feed source for the PlaNin, and provides supplemental pelleted feed as required (OD ... I hope I got that right).

My partners parents run a relatively large operation in terms of pond size and use the traditional Thai method in these parts. They feed a pelletised Fish Food to the PlaNin and the growth cycle from Fry to Harvest is about 9 months.

But they also grow Prawns in the same pond and the money from the Prawn Harvests supplements the cost of feed to the PlaNin. From Prawn hatching to a marketable Prawn is approximately 3 months.

RedBullHorn harvests CatFish on a commercial basis and has turned a healthy profit for a number of years. I know next to zip about CatFish.

If you are interested about growing both PlaNin and Prawns, there are a series of threads by myself and my partner starting with this one ... prawn-harvesting-01 ... and hyperlink to the next thread is at the end of each thread.

Couple of tips ...

PlaNin ... #1 thing is to obtain monosex. The disasters that have happened with having breeding PlaNin have robbed many a Farmer of profit.

If you are going to stock with some density ... aeration is very important. Ponds dip to their nadir for SO (saturated oxygen) just before the Dawn, so some early starts are required ... or automatic systems.

A reliable water source for the dry/dry and hot periods. (thinking Jan-May).

The last one comes from RBH above ...

... you need to have a better understanding on how the business works, not just about rearing fishes and finding a buyer later...

"profit is made at the buying, not at the selling..." - tingtong

Good luck with your venture, what ever style you decide upon ...

.

[Jotham79]

The fish would be pla - nin. , more of an investor to be fair on a 50/50 split on nett profits

Have an option of 4 - 8 rai plots , holding approx 20k fish each .

The figures I have at the moment seem to add up , but would be good to get an independant review of expected nyett returns from you guys to see if they match up.

I think the cost of the land will be important in your advice to me.

Each plot is in nakhon chaisi @ 10k per year rent.

All paperwork issues and legal stuff etc etc are fine , just looking at what you think the expected nett may be on that over the 8 months or so for the fish to grow to 1kilo.

Please if i need to be more clear let me know what else i should be letting you guys know without going on and on wirh stuff thats not relevant.

Thx again

For this sort of volume and since you seem to be going for the larger size Tilapia are you going with CP or someone similar? Why isn't the owner running this? How long is your lease? Do you have a contracted feed supplier....what price for the feed? What are the labor costs? Besides feed and labor, what are the other costs...power for lighting/aeriation....equipment rental/replacement. What is your water source to keep your ponds topped off.

All of the large tilapia coming to Petchabun are supposed to be coming from Nakon Sawon and are net raised in a river. You may want to check out how your completion is working and what their costs and profits are.

[ozzydom]

The fish would be pla - nin. , more of an investor to be fair on a 50/50 split on nett profits

Have an option of 4 - 8 rai plots , holding approx 20k fish each .

The figures I have at the moment seem to add up , but would be good to get an independant review of expected nett returns from you guys to see if they match up.

I think the cost of the land will be important in your advice to me.

Each plot is in nakhon chaisi @ 10k per year rent.

All paperwork issues and legal stuff etc etc are fine , just looking at what you think the expected nett may be on that over the 8 months or so for the fish to grow to 1kilo.

Please if i need to be more clear let me know what else i should be letting you guys know without going on and on wirh stuff thats not relevant.

Thx again

The first line of this post needs clarifying,is this deal a 50/50 partnership where all costs and profits are split ,or one where you finance the operation and receive 50 % of the nett profits?

IMHO ,either of those options is a minefield requiring an investment of multi millions to get 80 tonnes of Pla Nin to the size of 1 kg av size.

There must be some redeeming factor or you would not even be considering such an operation,but for the life of me I fail to see it.

[N47HAN]

Thanks for the helpfull replies guys !

The area of Nakon Chaisi is full of fish / shrimp farms . The option I have as mentioned is to take on Upto 4 plots although I can take just 1 or 2.

Its purely an investment outlook , there are several plots allready taken care of by a team of people that manage the fish on behalf of all the individual owners and costs are split between all and I am able to utilise this base of farmers for any of the plots I take on.

The options have been offered to me first , although I know there isnt a shortage of takers should I decline.

Ill take a while to go through all your posts and suggestions so far and see if it is viable from my position and what the risks are .

Thanks so far !

[N47HAN]

Thanks for the helpfull replies guys !

The area of Nakon Chaisi is full of fish / shrimp farms . The option I have as mentioned is to take on Upto 4 plots although I can take just 1 or 2.

Its purely an investment outlook , there are several plots allready taken care of by a team of people that manage the fish on behalf of all the individual owners and costs are split between all and I am able to utilise this base of farmers for any of the plots I take on.

The options have been offered to me first , although I know there isnt a shortage of takers should I decline.

Ill take a while to go through all your posts and suggestions so far and see if it is viable from my position and what the risks are .

Thanks so far !

[grimleybob]

Thanks for the helpfull replies guys !

The area of Nakon Chaisi is full of fish / shrimp farms . The option I have as mentioned is to take on Upto 4 plots although I can take just 1 or 2.

Its purely an investment outlook , there are several plots allready taken care of by a team of people that manage the fish on behalf of all the individual owners and costs are split between all and I am able to utilise this base of farmers for any of the plots I take on.

The options have been offered to me first , although I know there isnt a shortage of takers should I decline.

Ill take a while to go through all your posts and suggestions so far and see if it is viable from my position and what the risks are .

Thanks so far !

Never, never, never put money into something you know nothing about. Stick to things you have expertise in.

[RedBullHorn]

I worked a career of night entertainment business for a period of 18 years, had a good reputation, within the top choices and was always head hunted and always made my bosses wealthy. I was an expert in my field with my marketting skill and tricks up my sleeves, made high yearly remuneration package.

But i wanted to get out of the rat race badly, i missed my baby boy and my loving wife very badly in Thailand (back then)......so i make plans and then work the plans accordingly...

Sometime it's jush a hunch that things will work out. Through feasibility studies and comparison. A lot of research on possibility, market, margin, P&L, bottom line...effort, obstacles, trial & error and "if he can make it, so can i" believes and "i will do it better" type of mind set...

One needs to study market saturations and share of a piece of of the pie.

Before i decided to leave for Thailand, i already knew my wife has 11 rai of land inherited with endless flow of water. I research for the best possibility of farming produces with a good income. I ended up with an integrated farm of layers and fishes. I adapted to what is best for my operational capability, sticked to the fishes and loose the layers (i worked my catfish farm for 5 years alone, hired 2 farmhands after i expanded further and not work anymore). Evolved to changes, upgraded my skill level by researching through internet, spending thousands of hours studying high value information and analyzing materials and cycle after cycle of trials to achieve a better yield and production. Started small and expanded accordingly. Have a fighting spirit, never bow down to hardship and always work smart (very smart)...

You need to start some where before you become an expert... Question is what is holding you back and what is pushing you out to do it...

Edited January 6, 2014 by RedBullHorn

[CraigSchuler]

Watch out for the locals.....They love free fish and will steal you blind!

[grimleybob]

I worked a career of night entertainment business for a period of 18 years, had a good reputation, within the top choices and was always head hunted and always made my bosses wealthy. I was an expert in my field with my marketting skill and tricks up my sleeves, made high yearly remuneration package.

But i wanted to get out of the rat race badly, i missed my baby boy and my loving wife very badly in Thailand (back then)......so i make plans and then work the plans accordingly...

Sometime it's jush a hunch that things will work out. Through feasibility studies and comparison. A lot of research on possibility, market, margin, P&L, bottom line...effort, obstacles, trial & error and "if he can make it, so can i" believes and "i will do it better" type of mind set...

One needs to study market saturations and share of a piece of of the pie.

Before i decided to leave for Thailand, i already knew my wife has 11 rai of land inherited with endless flow of water. I research for the best possibility of farming produces with a good income. I ended up with an integrated farm of layers and fishes. I adapted to what is best for my operational capability, sticked to the fishes and loose the layers (i worked my catfish farm for 5 years alone, hired 2 farmhands after i expanded further and not work anymore). Evolved to changes, upgraded my skill level by researching through internet, spending thousands of hours studying high value information and analyzing materials and cycle after cycle of trials to achieve a better yield and production. Started small and expanded accordingly. Have a fighting spirit, never bow down to hardship and always work smart (very smart)...

You need to start some where before you become an expert... Question is what is holding you back and what is pushing you out to do it...

I agree with all you say. You learned the fish business from the ground up, learning from your mistakes and from others. You didn't invest your hard earned money into a scheme that you had no idea whether it is viable or not that relies for its success on other people's expertise. If you haven't the knowledge how do you judge if your "experts" know what they are doing?

Everyone should be encouraged to start, but do the research first, and a lot of it.

[David48]

I worked a career of night entertainment business for a period of 18 years, had a good reputation, within the top choices and was always head hunted and always made my bosses wealthy. I was an expert in my field with my marketting skill and tricks up my sleeves, made high yearly remuneration package.

But i wanted to get out of the rat race badly, i missed my baby boy and my loving wife very badly in Thailand (back then)......so i make plans and then work the plans accordingly...

Sometime it's jush a hunch that things will work out. Through feasibility studies and comparison. A lot of research on possibility, market, margin, P&L, bottom line...effort, obstacles, trial & error and "if he can make it, so can i" believes and "i will do it better" type of mind set...

One needs to study market saturations and share of a piece of of the pie.

Before i decided to leave for Thailand, i already knew my wife has 11 rai of land inherited with endless flow of water. I research for the best possibility of farming produces with a good income. I ended up with an integrated farm of layers and fishes. I adapted to what is best for my operational capability, sticked to the fishes and loose the layers (i worked my catfish farm for 5 years alone, hired 2 farmhands after i expanded further and not work anymore). Evolved to changes, upgraded my skill level by researching through internet, spending thousands of hours studying high value information and analyzing materials and cycle after cycle of trials to achieve a better yield and production. Started small and expanded accordingly. Have a fighting spirit, never bow down to hardship and always work smart (very smart)...

You need to start some where before you become an expert... Question is what is holding you back and what is pushing you out to do it...

"Sometime it's just a hunch that things will work out. Through feasibility studies and comparison. A lot of research on possibility, market, margin, P&L, bottom line...effort, obstacles, trial & error and "if he can make it, so can I" believes and "I will do it better" type of mind set... " ...

Best Post I read in any Forum this year on Thai Visa ...

.

[RedBullHorn]

...Everyone should be encouraged to start, but do the research first, and a lot of it.

That is the truth... do the research first, a lot of it.

I was prepared back then... My ex-bosses came to meet me in Thailand and wanted me to fly to Dubai & Bahrain if things go south... I requested Business-Class...and a belly-dancing reception.

My wife was urging me "Close the farm now !!! Close the farm !..."

Edited January 7, 2014 by RedBullHorn

[N47HAN]

Thankyou to all the posters , I should know in a week or so my final decision on wether to go ahead or not.

will if course post back either way with an explination of my thought process and reasoning.