Mountain biking in Chiang Mai and Chiang Dao

[Karolis]

Hello,

I'm planning to stay in Chiang Mai for a week or two in the beggining of February.

I've been able to find quite a lot of tracks online around Chiang Mai, How realistic is my plan to find a decent/semi-decent mountain bike to rent in a city and explore around using my own GPS and no guidence ?

I've also tried to look into mountain biking around Chang Dao area, which looks super beautiful in photos, but little or no info online about that. Is it possible to rent a bike there ? Would it be problematic to rent one in Chang Mai and tranfer it to Chang Dao ?

Also, any chance there are some tracks online I could download ? I've been able to find a single one so far:

http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=8152

As I understand my plan to mountain bike in northen Thailand might be ruined by smog and smoke. Is the air cleaner in Chang Dao area if that would be a problem in Chang Mai ?

Thanks for any info in advance.

[chiangmaiexpat]

Hi Karolis!

- You can rent mountain bikes in Chiang Mai, but I am not sure if they meet your idea of "decent". What you get is typically an entry level hardtail bike with a small or medium frame. Probably a little battered. I don't know of any place in Chiang Dao where you can rent a mountain bike. Transfer is no problem. You could even ride to Chiang Dao.

- Exploring trails on your own with GPS is definitely possible, but make sure you carry adequate equipment. It's easy to get lost in the jungle. Still happens to me after several years of hiking and biking in this area. You might also like http://chiangmaibiking.wordpress.com.

- Chiang Dao is beautiful indeed, and there are some really cool XC trails up there. The hike up Doi Luang mountain is also great. The area is quite remote, some hill tribe villages and offers great views. Most Chiang Dao routes are marathon like the one you posted... probably takes a whole day.

- The smog tends to get severe in March. February might still be OK, at least the first half. It differs slightly every year. The problem affects the entire region. Air quality in Chiang Dao is likely worse.

Cheers, CM-Expat

[bobfish]

Trackwise, you could try Strava, or have a search on Bicycle Thailand.

I second CMexpat's observation on doing it alone. Trails everywhere, you will become geographically embarrassed even with a GPS and maps - of course that can be part of the challenge.

Bikewise, for two weeks it may be worth bringing your own [depends where/who you're flying from/with ]. Most guide/tour companies would be unlikely to entertain a rent only proposition, but you could ask. Depends on what type of riding you want to do: You could contact 'Aidan' at Mountain Biking Chiang Mai for moderate hardtail XC or 'King' at X - Biking for higher end AM and DH. Alternatively, 'Note' via FB at Mad Monkey CNX could sort similar AM and DH. I'm sure you've done a web search and found other operators, but these I can recommend from experience.

[Karolis]

I've checked Strava, but didn't find anything usefull there. Any more ideas where to find tracks around Chang Dao ?

I've already read http://chiangmaibiking.wordpress.com before and found it's trails on bikemap.net in gpx format. Extremely helpful website and I will definetly try some of it's tracks.

Changmaiexpert, what do you mean by "adequate equipment" ? Anything I should carry what it's not cammon in other areas in the world, anything jungle specific ?

Is Dong Luang suitable for trekking or it's a good place to mountain bike as well ?

As I see the biggest problem will be finding a proper bike to rent. I'd love to bring my own, but after Chang Mai I plan to travel to Laos and Vietnam. What about shops in Chang Mai like TCA, Velocity or Top Gear, do they rent bikes ? XC or AM bikes is what I'm looking for.

[wantan]

For trails in Chiang Dao you can have a look at these tracks at gpsies.com. I haven't done any of them so i cannot guarantee they are correct. But for sure good for a first start. For example this mountainbike tour or that

If you stay in this area i suggest to have a walk up to Doi Chiang Dao. Its fantastic. I just did some hiking there and it was really great. I stayed at Malee'e Nature Lovers Bungalows and iirr they have some bicycles (and motorbikes) for rent. But i haven't seen any decent mountainbikes. So maybe better to bring your own.

Have fun. Hope there isn't too much smoke. I was there last april and it was terrible. Also the mointain trails are closed for visitors in april because of the fires.

[chiangmaiexpat]

Changmaiexpert, what do you mean by "adequate equipment" ? Anything I should carry what it's not cammon in other areas in the world, anything jungle specific ?

Is Dong Luang suitable for trekking or it's a good place to mountain bike as well ?

"Adequate equipment" refers to the contents of your backpack. If you do longer XC trips on your own, you need to pay special attention to it, which you probably already know if you did tours into the wilderness before. Most importantly, you need to carry enough water, or alternatively a water filter device, because you dehydrate really fast in this climate. A GPS device with a good offline map plus spare batteries is probably the second most important item.

What you carry depends on the tour. Let's take the first Chiang Dao MTB tour posted by Kurt on gpsies as an example. Incidentally, I know Kurt and he told me the story. To complete this tour in 5.5 hours, you need to be in top shape like the sports student who did it. This are 90 km over rough terrain, mostly wilderness with 2500 m climb; quite a monster tour. I would calculate 8 hours for it at a moderate pace plus 1 hour lunch break. So, it's a full day tour.

If you get lost, or have some technical problems during this trip, chances are that you don't get out of the jungle before dusk. So, I would carry a strong headlamp, extra batteries and enough bug spray plus an emergency blanket just in case I had to spend the night in the jungle. Apart from that, I would carry the standard tool set, a first aid kit, electrolyte powder, and two meals for this tour.

Cheers, CM-Expat

[wantan]

Changmaiexpert, what do you mean by "adequate equipment" ? Anything I should carry what it's not cammon in other areas in the world, anything jungle specific ?

Is Dong Luang suitable for trekking or it's a good place to mountain bike as well ?

"Adequate equipment" refers to the contents of your backpack. If you do longer XC trips on your own, you need to pay special attention to it, which you probably already know if you did tours into the wilderness before. First and foremost you need to carry enough water, or alternatively a water filter device, because you dehydrate really fast in this climate. A GPS device with a good offline map plus spare batteries is probably the second most important item.

What you carry depends on the tour. Let's take the first Chiang Dao MTB tour posted by Kurt on gpsies as an example. Incidentally, I know Kurt and he told me the story. To complete this tour in 5.5 hours, you need to be in top shape like the sports student who did it. This are 90 km over rough terrain, mostly wilderness with 2500 m climb; quite a monster tour. I would calculate 8 hours for it at a moderate pace plus 1 hour lunch break. So, it's a full day tour.

If you get lost, or have some technical problems during this trip, chances are that you don't get out of the jungle before dusk. So, I would carry a strong headlamp, extra batteries and enough bug spray plus an emergency blanket just in case I had to spend the night in the jungle. Apart from that, I would carry the standard tool set, a first aid kit, electrolyte powder, and two meals for this tour.

Cheers, X-pat

chiangmaiexpat, thanks for this comment. Yes, Karolis be careful in planning your tours, especially if you start going alone or if you don't know the area quite well. I wanted to do the "monster tour" chiangmaiexpat is talking about with a friend of mine. But after doing some very hard hiking through the jungle we did not have the power and decided it would be too much. I don't think i would be able to do this tour in 5.5 hours, 10 hours may would be more realistic.

If you want to do this (or a similar) "monster tour" start early (at sunrise). Tell others whats your plan. Take a reliable mobile phone with you and make sure you have a number you can call if you need help. chiangmaiexpat gave some good tips. Take some tools (e.g. a good bicycle multi-tool), spare tubes, tube patches and such things with you.

[chiangmaiexpat]

Sorry, forgot to answer the second question. Yes, in principle the path up Doi Luang is rideable except the last few 100m to the peak, but it is a difficult trail, comparable to a subalpine T2 trail in the Alps. You would have to carry/push the bike up and the way down is quite technical. Not much fun with a bike IMHO.

There is a road leading from Chiang Dao up to the trail head on the southside of the mountain where a bicycle would be handy, but then you would have to leave it at the trail head.

Cheers, CM-Expat

[Karolis]

I was confused at the beginning. At first when you mention Doi Luang I thought you are talking about Doi Luang National park area which I see in google maps near Phayao. As I understand now Doi Luang Chang Dao is the full name of the mountain Chang Dao, my mistake.

I'm looking for little easier tracks than monster tour Something like up to 40-70km with 1000-1500 m climb.

My idea is to spend up to 2 weeks in a region combined (Chang Mai + Chang Dao). Probably 3-4 days in Chang Dao. Trek up to Doi Luang and mountain bike in the area around the mountain if I get the bike. Gpsies.com will be great source of info for that.

changmaiexpert, are there tracks yours ?

http://www.bikemap.net/en/user/fb100000200699114/#gsc.tab=0

If so, maybe you could recommend which of those are the best around Chang Mai ? The ones that are pleasant to ride with rented hardtail bike.

For example this one looks really nice: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/655571-chiang-mai-rock-tower-downhill/#entry6640757

I can read about most of those tracks at http://chiangmaibiking.wordpress.com/ which I guess is your writing too. But at the website tracks are not compared between each other

[el jefe]

Great info in the replies.

I'll add that it can get quite hot by mid-Feb. I've done some remote mountain biking in northern Laos and started most days with 6 liters of water. It would probably have been better to use a reliable filtration system.

If you're continuing your trip from northern Thailand into Laos and VN, why not eliminate the rental problem and bring your own bike? There is some excellent mountain biking in Laos and I'm sure it's equally good in northern VN.

[chiangmaiexpat]

Yes, that's my trip collection. The one posted earlier on Thaivisa is the Mon Cham - Rocktower Downhill trip. I've added descriptions, so you can take your pick, it's really a matter of personal taste. I like all of the tours in the Doi Suthep/Pui park and you could easily spend two weeks exploring all the trails there. To start with I'd recommend the Navamin-Huay-Tueng-Tao trails (http://www.bikemap.net/en/route/1950863-offroad-huay-tueng-tao-to-700-pi), because they are easy to access, not too technical, and fun to ride.

Cheers, CM-Expat

P.S.: "Doi Luang" means something like "main peak" in Thai, so there are quite a few mountains named Doi Luang in Thailand, including the one in the national park with the same name (which by the way has a more interesting sister peak called Doi Nook with a bare granite dome). The Doi Luang Chiang Dao is probably the most prominent peak in Northern Thailand.

[bobfish]

Hey, CM Expat; Good trip reports

I've ridden most trails around Suthep/Pui, kudos to your friend for hitting the Bamboo trail on a hardtail!

[bobfish]

Karolis, the trails that CMExpat has posted on bikemap can all be recommended, but you'll enjoy the tech trails many times more on a AM bike. BYO if possible.

CMX: the trail from Doi Pui to Ban Pong is a great ride. I remember doing the first bit [Doi Pui descent] years ago, but turned right and eventually ended up in Mae Tang Valley.

One day, I'm going to do the old elephant trail through to Mae Hong Son, but that's gonna need support and it had better be before I get too much older!

[rebo]

"... the old elephant trail through to Mae Hong Son ..."

Sounds interesting. Some more info (Tour/track in Google Earth or a GPS-file)?

Thanks

[bobfish]

Sorry, I can't find a GPS file link, but a search of the GT rider forum and a bit of detective work is required.

It appears the 'trail' is a collection of segments, with ill defined choices along the way - 4wd/single. Some trekking companies walk it.

[chiangmaiexpat]

One day, I'm going to do the old elephant trail through to Mae Hong Son, but that's gonna need support and it had better be before I get too much older!

Let me know when you do that. Sounds like an adventure and I wonder if anyone already attempted it on an MTB. If there are doubts about the trail locations and viability, I know one man who might be able to help out. His name is John Spies; he runs the Cave Lodge in Pang Mapha and he's been walking those trails in the old days.

Cheers, CM-Expat

[T_Dog]

Karolis... Chiang Dao is a beautiful area but you won't find bikes to rent up there unless a resort is offering them. Pick up a GT-Rider map and you will find a lot of jeep trails that can make for weeks of exploring. Lots of single track up there too but not much local knowledge, so you need to be able to explore for yourself and keep yourself unlost and unhurt. Some of the trails up there have jutting rocks which are quite sketchy if you biff.

Send me a PM when you get here if you would like to ride some of the trails around Mae Taeng. Here is a link to one which can easily be connected to two other trails for 50-plus kilometers. Note that the single track trails anywhere in Thailand can completely change over a season. One trail that I rode up here in 2009 is now completely overgrown, including 5 km of connecting road even though Google Earth still shows the old image.

On the link below, go to the bottom right and download a TRACK (not route) and you can open the file in Google Earth. With tracks, you can usually find your way on most trails if you download it to your GPS unit, but having someone familiar with the trail is always a big plus. Plenty of trails to ride up here!

http://sharemyroutes.com/routes/Thailand/Mae-Taeng-Chiang-Mai/Pony-Canyon-Leopard-Crossing/details.aspx

[Karolis]

IT_Dog, is there a place in Chang Mai where I can buy GT-Rider map ? and are talking about this one:

http://www.gt-rider.com/maps-of-thailand-laos-maps/the-mae-hong-son-loop-guide-map

el jefe, travel from north Thailand, Laos and then to Vietnam with a bike sounds like a logistical nightmare to me That's the reason I'm not willing to bring my own bike. Plus it takes a lot of mobility away being with that much baggage. Crossing my fingers I'll find something OK in Chang Mai, because all those tracks looks too appealing to be missed

What about this area. Anyone knows if is it worth spending a day there:

http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=2155818

[chiangmaiexpat]

What about this area. Anyone knows if is it worth spending a day there:

http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=2155818

The trails around Huay Lan are lovely, but also quite easy. Suitable for family excursion, I guess. You can have a similar experience around Huay Tueng Tao, which is closer to town, although there are more people at Huay Tueng Tao.

Cheers, CM-Expat

[T_Dog]

IT_Dog, is there a place in Chang Mai where I can buy GT-Rider map ? and are talking about this one:

http://www.gt-rider.com/maps-of-thailand-laos-maps/the-mae-hong-son-loop-guide-map

el jefe, travel from north Thailand, Laos and then to Vietnam with a bike sounds like a logistical nightmare to me That's the reason I'm not willing to bring my own bike. Plus it takes a lot of mobility away being with that much baggage. Crossing my fingers I'll find something OK in Chang Mai, because all those tracks looks too appealing to be missed

What about this area. Anyone knows if is it worth spending a day there:

http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=2155818

That would be the map to get you generally situated. You can buy them at virtually any book store in Chiang Mai, or you can go to the Kafe pub which is down the street from Tapae Gate inside the moat.

Regarding the travel, check you airline. Some international carriers allow two pieces each weighing up to 35 kg. One of them can be a bike box. El Jefe is the expert here so he can chime in.

[el jefe]

IT_Dog, is there a place in Chang Mai where I can buy GT-Rider map ? and are talking about this one:

http://www.gt-rider.com/maps-of-thailand-laos-maps/the-mae-hong-son-loop-guide-map

el jefe, travel from north Thailand, Laos and then to Vietnam with a bike sounds like a logistical nightmare to me That's the reason I'm not willing to bring my own bike. Plus it takes a lot of mobility away being with that much baggage. Crossing my fingers I'll find something OK in Chang Mai, because all those tracks looks too appealing to be missed

What about this area. Anyone knows if is it worth spending a day there:

http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=2155818

That would be the map to get you generally situated. You can buy them at virtually any book store in Chiang Mai, or you can go to the Kafe pub which is down the street from Tapae Gate inside the moat.

Regarding the travel, check you airline. Some international carriers allow two pieces each weighing up to 35 kg. One of them can be a bike box. El Jefe is the expert here so he can chime in.

Thanks, T-Dog, but I'm no expert in intl airline baggage policies. I only know the rules for the airlines I use.

Karolis, traveling with a bike is so much better than traveling without one! You can eliminate half your bus rides by riding to your destination. You'll get to ride thru great small villages, especially in Laos, that you'll never get to see any other way. Traveling down the Nam Ou on a small boat stopping to pick up locals on the way to the market is so much better than taking the big boats down the Mekong overcrowded with a bunch of drunk westerners.

And if you decide to take the bike with you on public transportation, it's easy. Most buses in northern Thailand will take your bike for 50 baht. Songthjiews will usually put it on the roof for a lot less. The most I've ever been charged for flying with my bike within Asia is about 800 baht. That's Air Asia's standard fee. i was also charged that last week flying from Chiang Mai to Luang Prabang on Lao Air but that was because I never box my bike. My friend, who boxed his bike for the same flight, was not charged for his bike. In Laos, I've seen plenty of people put their motorbike on the bus. A bicycle would be easy. In both countries, hitchhiking, even with a bike, is easy. The hard part is getting the driver to accept a dollar/euro or two as a thank you. I have less experience trying to get a bike on public transportation in VM but I'm sure, knowing the Vietnamese attitude towards money, that it's a problem that a little money will solve.

[rebo]

Sorry, I can't find a GPS file link, but a search of the GT rider forum and a bit of detective work is required.

It appears the 'trail' is a collection of segments, with ill defined choices along the way - 4wd/single. Some trekking companies walk it.

Thanks for the GT rider forum hint, so I found it.

But about 7'000 m elevation gain on 234 km of mostly off-road means 3 days --- that's beyond my acceptance level of self-torment ... Nevertheless - respect for the ones who do it!

[el jefe]

Thanks for the GT rider forum hint, so I found it.

But about 7'000 m elevation gain on 234 km of mostly off-road means 3 days --- that's beyond my acceptance level of self-torment ... Nevertheless - respect for the ones who do it!

Isn't the "Elephant trail" the one that goes from CM - Samoeng - Wat Chan - MHS? If it is, 234 kms sounds about right, but it's paved now almost to the half way point. If you can make it to Wat Chan in one day (dawn to dusk for a strong rider), it's a 2 day trip. Spending a night in Samoeng to make it a 3 day day trip doesn't really work. The problem is that from Wat Chan to MHS is about 80 kms of steep, rutted jeep tracks before coming out on the paved road just south of MHS and if it can't be done in a day, you would have to do a village homestay. There are no formal accommodations between the two towns.

I've done Wat Chan to CM in a day (easier because Wat Chan is at 900 meters) but am relying on info from friends that did it two-up on a motorbike from Wat Chan to MHS.

[bobfish]

Karolis: apologies with the thread shift here!!;

Elephant trail: el jefe, I think you're right ref paving, and that was the report from a couple of friends who did it with along with a quad bike a while ago.

I'd aim to take a licencious approach and go via one of the 'optional' off road [trekking?] routes Samoeng - Wat Chan, and then the difficult ups and downs towards MHS- factor at least one night at a hilltribe village.

To maximise the fun, I don't want to be burdoned by kit - so I figure that support could be provided by a quadbike with minimal gear. But the quad may end up being the limiting factor, so couple of KLX's may be able to carry enough instead.

I also figure a sit down with some of the more knowledgeable moto riders when next in Chiang Mai is in order ......

It's a bit of an epic though, and I don't know if it has been done by MTB; Further ideas? [or maybe we should start a dedicated thread for multi day trips.]

[chiangmaiexpat]

...

It's a bit of an epic though, and I don't know if it has been done by MTB; Further ideas? [or maybe we should start a dedicated thread for multi day trips.]

I would do that with a 40L backpack (or panniers) that allow you to carry enough equipment for self-reliance at a reasonable comfort level. Jungle hammock, or small tent, or sleeping back, food for 2 days, plus basic gear. No need for an ATV.

Cheers, CM-Expat

[Karolis]

Any ideas if these two areas are worth checking ? Or staying close to Chang mai is better.

#1 http://www.bikemap.net/en/route/1377340-mueangpaeng_hueipooloei_watchan/#/z12/19.12797,98.34514/google_roadmap

No idea if it's possible to get accomodation somewhere in the middle for a two day trip (Wat Chan town ?)

#2 http://www.bikemap.net/en/route/2394305-ander-loopje-rond-hotel/#/z12/18.98779,98.83815/google_roadmap

Track description says it's a paved one. Could the description be wrong ?

[T_Dog]

#2 starts out as concrete road but quickly deteriorates to dirt. I have only ridden a corner of that route and am surprised to see there is a loop there. Many intersections once you get up in the hills so a GPS track or local knowledge will be necessary. This was likely posted by a dirt bike tour group.

[chiangmaiexpat]

Any ideas if these two areas are worth checking ? Or staying close to Chang mai is better.

#1 http://www.bikemap.net/en/route/1377340-mueangpaeng_hueipooloei_watchan/#/z12/19.12797,98.34514/google_roadmap

No idea if it's possible to get accomodation somewhere in the middle for a two day trip (Wat Chan town ?)

Trip 1: the landscape in that area is really nice. High mountains and beautiful pine forests. I've just been there in October. Wrapping this into a 2 days tour is tough, but possible for a trained rider. The western part of the loop is quite remote. Yes, you can find accommodation in Wat Chan or even on the way. Be ready to improvise, though.

Cheers, CM-Expat

[T_Dog]

Any ideas if these two areas are worth checking ? Or staying close to Chang mai is better.

#1 http://www.bikemap.net/en/route/1377340-mueangpaeng_hueipooloei_watchan/#/z12/19.12797,98.34514/google_roadmap

No idea if it's possible to get accomodation somewhere in the middle for a two day trip (Wat Chan town ?)

Trip 1: the landscape in that area is really nice. High mountains and beautiful pine forests. I've just been there in October. Wrapping this into a 2 days tour is tough, but possible for a trained rider. The western part of the loop is quite remote. Yes, you can find accommodation in Wat Chan or even on the way. Be ready to improvise, though.

Cheers, CM-Expat

Going west there are no settlements, so you will have to tank up with water at every opportunity. Bring a water filter!

[el jefe]

Karolis: apologies with the thread shift here!!;

Elephant trail: el jefe, I think you're right ref paving, and that was the report from a couple of friends who did it with along with a quad bike a while ago.

I'd aim to take a licencious approach and go via one of the 'optional' off road [trekking?] routes Samoeng - Wat Chan, and then the difficult ups and downs towards MHS- factor at least one night at a hilltribe village.

To maximise the fun, I don't want to be burdoned by kit - so I figure that support could be provided by a quadbike with minimal gear. But the quad may end up being the limiting factor, so couple of KLX's may be able to carry enough instead.

I also figure a sit down with some of the more knowledgeable moto riders when next in Chiang Mai is in order ......

It's a bit of an epic though, and I don't know if it has been done by MTB; Further ideas? [or maybe we should start a dedicated thread for multi day trips.]

The best way to do the Elephant Trail would be to take a songthiew from CM to Samoeng at dawn and ride from there to Wat Chan on Day 1. You'd be fresh enough to attempt to get all the way to MHS in a day from there. I'm pretty sure that the last village before MHS has a formal home stay so they're somewhat used to guests.

The bigger problem for me is that at the end of the ride you're obviously in MHS. Then what? I have no interest in doing the 2 day ride from MHS to CM on a MTB with gear on the road. The bus is not a pleasant option and the mini vans won't take bikes. That leaves two options:

1. Fly home from MHS. Airlines have said they'll refuse an unboxed non-folding bike on those small planes. I doubt they will but I'm not sure I want to take that chance.

2. Ride to Soppong and the Cave Lodge. Then the next day take the remote trails to Pai (~100 kms, 1 day) or Chiang Dao (longer, 2 days). That makes for a longer trip than I'd like to do.

Several of us have talked about doing this specific trip but we've never gotten our act together to actually do it. The logistics make it difficult.