Help me to understand Thailand better.

[ABCer]

Dear TV members.

Please, help me to better understand Thais.

I am not TROLLING.

I am not criticizing.

I am not for or against any colour. As a matter of fact I'm colourblind!

I do not know much about Thai politics.

I do not really care.

But having said all this I must insist that I am not stupid either.

There is a vicious unending power struggle between REDs and YELLOWs. Between the opposition of the day and ruling government of the day.

I can understand the fight between the power groups over the right to control the 'cookie jur'. There is nothing 'Thai'-specific about this.

Both fighting parties used to be in opposition and at the helm in the past.

Never ever did anything change in this country for the majority of its people no matter who was on top.

Please, could anybody explain to me the difference between 'reds' and 'yellows' except the colour of their shirts?

NOTE! If you are a 'red' or 'yellow' sympathizer, - please, keep out of this post. I want a balanced and unbiased explanation.

[chrisinth]

ABCer, you are not alone in your quest for enlightenment, believe me.

This post is for support only, I'm afraid I don't have answers for you and will be interested in this topic.

[Costas2008]

"Help me to understand Thailand better."

You are asking for help to understand Thailand better......but it seems to me you are only interested about the difference between Reds and Yellows.

My advise to you is.....read the numerous articles and postings on TVF.

It won't take long to understand.

[rijb]

There are very powerful people and organizations behind the scenes. And the sides are not as clear cut as many posters would have you believe.

The old aristocracy (and their wannabes) are against any changes that might reduce their wealth, power and status.

The new money (internet) generation want their turn to sit at the big table. Some just want to get rid of the dam_n table!

Bottom line: It's about (inevitable) change. And both sides will stop at nothing to slow it down or speed it up.

Edited January 3, 2014 by rijb

[txp158]

You want the truth => here is the truth.

The National Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship whose supporters are commonly called Red Shirts, is a political pressure group opposed to (1) the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), (2) the 2006 Thai military coup, (3) supporters of the coup.

Their main agenda is to oppose those groups. They claim to support democracy but only appear in the public view during the demonstration of PAD just before the the miliatry coup de tat of 2006.

Notable red shirt leaders include Jatuporn Prompan, Nattawut Saikua, Veera Musikapong and Weng Tojirakarn.

Jatuporn Prompan finished bachelor degree in the field of political science which took him 11 years. He became MP first time after the people's power party took control of the government in 2007.

Nattawut Saikua is a well known stirring orator and gains much of his fame from Thai television program known as sa-pa joke (Paliament Joke). He became deputy spoke man for people's power party first time in 2007.

Veera Musikapong is an ex executive member of thai ruk thai party whose government was overthrown in coup de tat of 2006.

Weng Tojiragan is a medical doctor who used to give support for PAD but gradually alienated himself from the group. He later became the spoke person for red shirts and MP for Pheu Thai Party in 2010.

Side notes

Thai ruk Thai party whose goverment was overthrown by the coup => was dissolved on May 30, 2007 by the order of the Constitutional Tribunal for violation of election laws (votes given by constitutional judges were 9 to 0). The remaining MPs and members of the party reorganized in the people's power party.

People power party was also dissolved by the constitutional court on December 2, 2008 due to Yongyuth Tiyapairat, the party's deputy chairman, was deemed guilty by a court verdict on electoral fraud. MPs and members of the party reorganized in the Pheu Thai party.

Edit

Full reference will be given if asked.

Edited January 3, 2014 by txp158

[wym]

I think you show a pretty good understanding already.

No reason for a foreigner to favor one side or the other, major waste of time an energy. The locals just base their loyalty on that of their back-scratching network or in some cases just being flat-out paid for it.

The system works so that no one who actually cares for the interest of the country as a whole can gain any real power, and that goes for the police, the army and civil servants as well as politicians.

As you point out doesn't really make a difference to daily life for ordinary Thais, they're at the bottom of the pecking order and will never get more than table scraps anyway.

[txp158]

In contrast to red shirt, here's the truth about yellow shirt.

The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) (Thai: พันธมิตรประชาชนเพื่อประชาธิปไตย) AKA the Yellow Shirts was originally a coalition of protesters against Thaksin Shinawatra, the former Prime Minister of Thailand who is also the head of Thai ruk thai party.

The PAD was formally established on February 8, 2006, after Thaksin's family sold shares in Shin Corp to Temasek Holdings (2 days after foreign business act was amended so that shares in the segment of telecommunication could be owned by any foreigners up to 49%). Ship Corp made most of its monopoly business from governmental leased satellite orbit, (which is the only satellite orbit that Thailand possesses). The PAD saw the transactions as a proof of a conflict of interest.

The central committee of the PAD consisted of Sondhi Limthongkul, Chamlong Srimuang, Phiphob Thongchai, Somsak Kosaisuuk,and Somkiat Pongpaiboon.

1 Media mogul Sondhi Limthongkul is a journalist and founder of Manager daily newspaper as well as satellite broadcaster ASTV. On 1 October 2013, Sondhi was declared guilty of lese majeste for quoting remarks made by an opponent protesting the 2008 resumption of PAD protests. As of today, despite the alleged crime of lese majeste, he remains a royalist and takes no part in any political party.

2 Major General Chamlong Srimuang is a former governor of Bangkok, leader of the Palang Dharma Party, spokesman of the Confederation for Democracy (1992 oppositional movement). As of today, he takes no part in any political party.

3 Activist Phiphob Thongchai is a well known non-governmental organization leader who advocates for a wide range of issues for the past 30 years. He has been active since he was a college student, at the time of which he held the position of the Secretary of the University Student Federation of Thailand. He is also an ex-member of the Council of Socio-economic Consultants of Thailand, and Committee for Democratic Advocacy of Thailand, and the Children's Foundation of Thailand. As of today, he takes no part in any political party.

4 Somsak Kosaisuuk used to be a Secretary-General of the State Enterprise Labour Relations Confederation (SELRC), a union of government owned enterprises' employees, and in this position he was very active in organizing a campaign against the privatization of the electricity generating authority of Thailand. Currently, he is an adviser to the union. When the PAD registered a political party, aka new politics party (NPP), Somsak became its chairman. In late April 2011, he resigned from the PAD leadership in a split that separated the PAD from the NPP.

5 Somkiat Pongpaiboon was a university lecturer at Nakhon Ratchasima Rajabhat University. He became an MP for democrat party in 2007 and a leader of the PAD after the coup de tat in 2006. As of today, he takes no part in any political party.

Edited January 3, 2014 by txp158

[ABCer]

Hi, guys. Thanks to all. Still in the dark on the basic issues.

txp158, - you are too technical for me. Cannot understand:

- why all politics here must go back to Thaksin;

- he is out of Thais hair for a long time;

- he is blamed, tried and convicted for some not kosher dealings;

- but aren't ALL Thai power elite thieves anyway? So what was so special about him?

- was there less corruption under Abhisit?

- is there less corruption under Yingluck?

- will there be less corruption under Mr. X?

I'm afraid not... in which case why same-same Thais dressed in red/yellow are fighting each other, shooting each other and causing inevitable coup?

If they do not understand that the only change they will see is the pig-faced politicians at the feeding trough, than they must be really stupid.

My last comment is not Thai related. All 'masses' in any country are duped into this 'change' thing. Yet never ever anything changes.

[thecynic]

I am basically in the same boat as the OP. I have been in this country a few months and have been reading whatever I can to understand the politics.

I prefer to talk to locals but my limited, or non-existent basically, Thai language skills make it rather difficult.

From what I understand it is old money vs new money. I don't buy the premise that the current ruling government (caretaker now) is only in power due to the alleged vote buying. Sure vote buying happens everywhere, but to get such control in the parliament there has to be more than just vote buying going on. Gerrymandering may be? I don't know.

As someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight and who has just started following the whole scene, as of now, it looks like the YL government is more in the right than the anti-government protesters. Suthep doesn't instill confidence, not one bit. For once, he wants to move away from democracy without any discernible plan of action, if his wish for a "people's council" is granted.

Also, and this is my opinion, from what I understand, the opposition does/or has done nothing to get support from the people who vote for PTP. How about a manifesto stating the things they plan to do for the farmers up north so that they vote for them. I mean if you are a rice farmer in a so-called "red shirt" constituency why would you vote for the democrats. A farmer doesn't care about the budget deficit or the corruption at higher levels. He only cares about the food on his plate and money in his bank account. And not to forget, as far as corruption goes, there is at least one charge of high-level corruption against Suthep as well, from what I have read.

On another note, you want to see corruption, go look at India, one of the largest democracies in the world. Look at Malaysia, I call it a pseudo democracy; the corruption in Malaysia is crazy. Be it at the top or at the ground level. From what I have seen, the cops in Bangkok are angels compared to the ones in Kuala Lumpur.

So yeah, any unbiased comments/information will be very useful.

[davidsuphan]

Dose this mean the Indian class system is alive and well in Thailand?

Because it seems to a poor simpleton like me the answers to your question come from very well informed individual's

[txp158]

Hi, guys. Thanks to all. Still in the dark on the basic issues.

txp158, - you are too technical for me. Cannot understand:

- why all politics here must go back to Thaksin;

You want unbiased review, so I give facts. None my personal opinion is involved.

- Yingluck is a sister of Thaksin Shinawatra in blood (not in law).

- Yingluck became an executive in the busineses founded by her elder brother, Thaksin shinawatra, and later became the president of property developer SC Asset and managing director of Advanced info service (aka AIS a companany owned by shin corporation).

- On 16 May 2011, the Pheu Thai party voted to name Yingluck as the party's top candidate under the party list system. Yingluck has no prior experience in any politics before the general election on july 3rd, 2011 meaning that it only took her 48 days to promote herself for general election and in spite of that she won the title of prime minister.

- Thaksin contacts red shirts on many occasions via skype phone calls condemning the democrat government and openly support People's power party and pheu thai party. => youtube.com/watch?v=a9ByTwwPoT8 youtube.com/watch?v=-gtLxAznH10 youtube.com/watch?v=iBsIGCA2u0M

- Many members of parliament of people power's and pheu thai party frequently flied to Dubai to personally meet you know who. One of many news report can be found here => nationmultimedia.com/national/Northeast-MPs-to-fly-to-Dubai-demanding-Cabinet-se-30159711.html

I do not know why all politics must go back to Thaksin. But this is what I see. No bias, just facts.

If you don't understand what I wrote before, I suggest you take a good look at what have become of red shirt supporter and yellow shirt supporter. You'll see the differences are pretty clear.

Edited January 3, 2014 by txp158

[bitcoinbob]

Thaksin did a lot of things for the people that old money never did. he bascially created a power base out of the people the Bangkok elite never thought anything of.Now the bangkok elite are crazy out of there mind because they realize any election they will lose hey can never muster the numbers.So what does a group do that has lost absolute power and have no chance of ever getting it back? Thailand has never had any internal revolts except the last time they got rid of the monarch for 20+years till it was reinstated after WW2. so these guys are long overdue for a proper realignment of power.

[txp158]

- was there less corruption under Abhisit?

- is there less corruption under Yingluck?

We are talking about the differences between red shirt and yellow shirt, not the differences between democrat party and Thaksin supported parties.

[metisdead]

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