Bagsida Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) Do not buy a new motorbike from unauthorized dealersDid you know that in Thailand are a lot of unauthorized motorbike dealers which are pretending by their appearance to be authorized dealers of a brand ?Why should you avoid to buy a new motorbike from unauthorized motorbike dealers ?If you buy from there they have to buy the motorbike from a registered dealer and many times they register these motorbikes first on their own company before register it on your name and in this way your new motorbike has 1 pre-owner in the book already, what is reducing the value of the motorbike.Honda-Motorcycles Thailand (ap-honda) knows about these transactions but does nothing against these dealers.To my request after the warranty, Honda told to me by telephone that I wouldn´t need to worry about it because Honda would give full warrantee even in these cases, but only if all services are made by an authorizised Honda dealer and aswell the oil was purchased there, but that's only good will from Honda without demanding legal !How to avoid such problems ?Before you buy a new motorbike or bring your motorbike there for a service ask the dealer about the dealer ID and ask the hotline of the manufacturer (Honda phone 02-2725-4000) about confirmation.Only the appearance of a company with brand logos, uniforms etc. means nothing at all !For example here you can see a ******************** When you see this company you never would question whether it is an official Honda dealer, but it isn´t an official Honda dealer and practices exactly what I have described. Edited January 10, 2014 by Mario2008 name and picture removed per forum rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ll2 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 thanks for some enlightenment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankee99 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Why would ap honda or any other mfg care who resells their bikes? As long as whoever you are buying from doesnt claim to be a dealer then no harm no foul....Shops such as Red Baron, pattaya super bikes etc have been saving customers money for years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsida Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) Why would ap honda or any other mfg care who resells their bikes? As long as whoever you are buying from doesnt claim to be a dealer then no harm no foul....Shops such as Red Baron, pattaya super bikes etc have been saving customers money for years.... In my opinion a dealer claims to be an authorized dealer of a brand if there are logos, the staff is wearing the uniforms etc. and they would have to tell you before you buy that they will pre-register the motorbike on their company before transfer to you. If they don´t they cheat the customers. BTW the motorbikes are not cheaper if you buy from an unauthorised dealer. If the customers would know that it isn´t an official dealer, they wouldn´t buy there for sure - that´s the point. If the motorbike would be cheaper if you buy from an unauthorised dealer and it´s clear that there is 1 pre-owner in the book etc. it remains to the customer to decide where to buy. AP Honda can´t control it because there are much too many of these dealers and most of the authorised dealers don´t complain because of they sell motorbikes to these dealers aswell and have profit with that. Edited January 9, 2014 by Bagsida 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweiloman Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 How do these dealers buy at a cheaper price? Is it because they buy in bulk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankee99 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Why would ap honda or any other mfg care who resells their bikes? As long as whoever you are buying from doesnt claim to be a dealer then no harm no foul....Shops such as Red Baron, pattaya super bikes etc have been saving customers money for years....In my opinion a dealer claims to be an authorized dealer of a brand if there are logos, the staff is wearing the uniforms etc. and they would have to tell you before you buy that they will pre-register the motorbike on their company before transfer to you. If they don´t they cheat the customers.BTW the motorbikes are not cheaper if you buy from an unauthorised dealer. If the customers would know that it isn´t an official dealer, they wouldn´t buy there for sure - that´s the point. If the motorbike would be cheaper if you buy from an unauthorised dealer and it´s clear that there is 1 pre-owner in the book etc. it remains to the customer to decide where to buy. AP Honda can´t control it because there are much too many of these dealers and most of the authorised dealers don´t complain because of they sell motorbikes to these dealers aswell and have profit with that. Complete and absolute nonsense. If i want to have a phone shop and buy samsung phones in hong kong and sell them here with a samsung sign do you think i am doing something wrong? My sign wouldnt say samsung authorized dealer just that blue sign... If i had a motul sign in bike shop or my employees had castrol shirts on even though i wasn't a castrol or motul authorized dealer do you think its a issue? NO FYI imported grey market bike do not need the dealer or importers name in the book first. Even if it were there first i doubt anyone cares but thats my opinion. The same as your post its a opinion with no facts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsida Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 Complete and absolute nonsense. If i want to have a phone shop and buy samsung phones in hong kong and sell them here with a samsung sign do you think i am doing something wrong? My sign wouldnt say samsung authorized dealer just that blue sign... If i had a motul sign in bike shop or my employees had castrol shirts on even though i wasn't a castrol or motul authorized dealer do you think its a issue? NO FYI imported grey market bike do not need the dealer or importers name in the book first. Even if it were there first i doubt anyone cares but thats my opinion. The same as your post its a opinion with no facts... Yes absolute nonsense - you compare apples with pears. I talk about motorbike and not mobilephones ! The difference is that for sell new motorbikes (or cars) a dealership contact with the manufacturer or importer is necessary and they will charge francise fees. For mobilephones,oil etc. you don´t need anything. What do you think would happen if your GF or wife would open a convinience store and write in big letters 7-eleven on it without having a contact with them ? Didn´t you hear from that story http://www.freedistrict.com/news/asia/thailand/starbucks-sues-bangkok-street-vendor-for-logo-copy-3958.html ? My post is a fact which I can prove with documents. But no problem - not all people understand how francising etc. works. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wantan Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 One big problem for the customer is that the mechanics may have less training or in the worst case no training at all. On a motorbike this can end bad. If i go to an official dealer i expect some standard in service quality. So if i cannot differentiate between official and unofficial dealers thats a very bad thing. Am i right that official Honda dealers have a certain quality standard for service? Is there any other way to find out its an official shop, other than calling Honda by phone? What about other brands? Yamaha and Kawasaki? Same problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsida Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 How do these dealers buy at a cheaper price? Is it because they buy in bulk? Usually they don´t buy such goods cheeper or much cheaper but get them almost for the price an authorised dealer has to pay, but they have lower costs because of the don´t pay francise / license fees. The authorised dealers have to fulfill a yearly sales value and if not the could loose their license, so they sell motorbikes to other dealers without that license, can keep the license and have a small profit but noo work with these motorbikes. That´s o.k. if the customer is informed about that. That´s the same story like with watches like Breitling. There was a German company named LEDAC (is closed now) http://www.businessdeutschland.de/en/firms/ledac-handelsgesellschaft-mbh-teningen-353426.html They had a catalog and there you could order Rolex, Breitling and what ever for lower prices but without international warranty. This is/was a fact - how the motorbike business in Thailand regarding prices is working exactly is my opinion, not a fact but quite likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ll2 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 most of these shops sell all brands of bikes. so, beware as also their prices are mostly inflated as they have to pay to the real dealer that they took these bikes. basically they sell for a real dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsida Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) One big problem for the customer is that the mechanics may have less training or in the worst case no training at all. On a motorbike this can end bad. If i go to an official dealer i expect some standard in service quality. So if i cannot differentiate between official and unofficial dealers thats a very bad thing. Am i right that official Honda dealers have a certain quality standard for service? Is there any other way to find out its an official shop, other than calling Honda by phone? What about other brands? Yamaha and Kawasaki? Same problem? I am quite sure all motorbike brands have the same "problem" and as far as I know the only way to find out if the dealer is certified or not is to ask for the dealer ID and call the hotline or you only call the hotline and ask for a dealer list in your area. The last pages of the service book contains dealers but you can´t be sure this list is up to date. Yes it´s much better to bring your motorbike to an official dealer for repairs. For sure there is a standard from Brands like Honda, Yamaha etc. Example (happened the last weeks and was ending today) : My GF´s Honda Click 110 made some bad noise in the transmission box (rear wheel) and we went to Bangkok Motorcycles Co, Ltd. /Phuket where she has bought that bike 7 years ago(see photo of the company above). They told her the bike would need some spareparts for about THB 3,000.- and they would have to order them. She ordered the spareparts but after 2 weeks nobody called her so she asked when the spareparts would arrive. They told her, that her 7 year old click would be too old and no spareparts would be available anymore. I knew that this is impossible bullshit and she called the Honda hotline. The hotline told her that the spareparts would be available and ask about which dealer gave her this wrong information. In this way we learned that Bangkok Motorcycles is not a Honda dealer (that is a fact). The hotline gave us the address from another dealer only 200 m away, they ordered the spareparts and fixed the bike 3 days later. But now the motorbike made a howling sound. We thought it´s because of the new parts but even after 3 weeks it was not better. Last monday we visited the mechanic (Honda certified) again and they opened the transmission box again. The reason was a faulty gearwheel which came faulty from Honda but they didn´t see that before mounting. Without any discussions they ordered 2 new gearwheels (1 was damaged already by the faulty one) fixed the bike today and charged nothing. Now the motorbike is fine again. Edited January 9, 2014 by Bagsida 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsida Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) most of these shops sell all brands of bikes. so, beware as also their prices are mostly inflated as they have to pay to the real dealer that they took these bikes. basically they sell for a real dealer. Yes and no. Some really large shops have licences for different brands like Mitsu Autocity Bangkok in the past for Mercedes Benz & Mitsubishi. The most shops selling all bike brands are not authorized dealer from these brands and I think (my opinion) you´re write they sell for other dealers on commission base what is o.k. if the "original" dealer has the contract with you or if you know that before and it´s o.k. for you. Not o.k. is if the dealer let you think he is an official dealer but has no license. Edited January 9, 2014 by Bagsida Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsida Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 BTW Here you can find all (!) spareparts for Honda Motorcycles up. to 250ccm http://pec.aphonda.co.th/Applications/PartPict.aspx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taotoo Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Why would ap honda or any other mfg care who resells their bikes? Reputation due to consistency of customer service etc. As long as whoever you are buying from doesnt claim to be a dealer then no harm no foul....Shops such as Red Baron, pattaya super bikes etc have been saving customers money for years.... These shops effectively ARE claiming to be official dealers. Most countries have laws to counter the practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankee99 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Why would ap honda or any other mfg care who resells their bikes? Reputation due to consistency of customer service etc. As long as whoever you are buying from doesnt claim to be a dealer then no harm no foul....Shops such as Red Baron, pattaya super bikes etc have been saving customers money for years.... These shops effectively ARE claiming to be official dealers. Most countries have laws to counter the practice. Listen you are making accusations that these companies are claiming something which they're not>>> It wont take long before a mod deletes your post for slander....I have been to these shops and they make no such claim to be a authorized dealer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wantan Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 BTW Here you can find all (!) spareparts for Honda Motorcycles up. to 250ccm http://pec.aphonda.co.th/Applications/PartPict.aspx Thanks a lot. Similar service from Yamaha is at http://www.yamaha-motor.co.th/Catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taotoo Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Why would ap honda or any other mfg care who resells their bikes? Reputation due to consistency of customer service etc. As long as whoever you are buying from doesnt claim to be a dealer then no harm no foul....Shops such as Red Baron, pattaya super bikes etc have been saving customers money for years.... These shops effectively ARE claiming to be official dealers. Most countries have laws to counter the practice. Listen you are making accusations that these companies are claiming something which they're not>>> It wont take long before a mod deletes your post for slander....I have been to these shops and they make no such claim to be a authorized dealer.... It's libel not slander. Your mention of moderation could prove to be ironic. A business can be deemed to be passing itself off as something without making any explicit claim. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wantan Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) yankee99, how do you identify an official Honda dealer? I always thought if the building is mostly red and there are big Honda signs everywhere inside and outside and some of the stuff wears Honda shirts then it is a Honda dealer. But maybe i am naive as TiT? Edited January 9, 2014 by wantan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loles Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Bagsida, I guess this isn't problem at all, and you don't loose anything when you sale your bike. If this vehicle is a bmw or fortuner, may be, but on scooter ....don't think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubberSideDown Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Isn't the benchmark of being an authorized dealer the ability to sell products with a factory warranty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umbanda Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 How do these dealers buy at a cheaper price? Is it because they buy in bulk? When I was shopping for a motorbike a Thai friend told me that some dealers not just buy in bulk, its buy in lower prices bikes that are in the way to change looks because new models are coming. If the price is really a LOT lower, and comes with factory warranty, makes sense to buy from those dealers. Requires to shopping around and compares. If the bike will show previous owner, even the dealer's, my concern will be if the bike is really new or a bank repo. Thais are masters in detailing and restoration, and it is not illegal changing the odometer reading...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfukata Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 a lot of bike shops use fake or copied parts (very substandard) but the locals don't mind it because the cost is much lower and also the mechanics are not to industry standards especially for new bike engine maintenances. I personally wouldn't choose to buy from a bogus store but again its a choice, perhaps the store(s) may have some special in-house credit plans for their buyers to purchase the bike. (acknowledging the consequences of failing to make payments will result in repossession of bike) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsida Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Why would ap honda or any other mfg care who resells their bikes? Reputation due to consistency of customer service etc. As long as whoever you are buying from doesnt claim to be a dealer then no harm no foul....Shops such as Red Baron, pattaya super bikes etc have been saving customers money for years.... These shops effectively ARE claiming to be official dealers. Most countries have laws to counter the practice. Listen you are making accusations that these companies are claiming something which they're not>>> It wont take long before a mod deletes your post for slander....I have been to these shops and they make no such claim to be a authorized dealer.... He only wrote that these shops are claiming to be official dealer of ??? Not more. I don´t know these dealers in Pattaya etc. and may be they are authorised dealers of trademarks or not, but if any dealer awakens the apparent to be an official dealer of a trade mark through its advertising occurs but hasn´t such a license and latest doesn´t make this fact clear in the sale talk in my view this would be illegal. Exactly that happened to me and this I can prove ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsida Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Bagsida, I guess this isn't problem at all, and you don't loose anything when you sale your bike. If this vehicle is a bmw or fortuner, may be, but on scooter ....don't think. May be your´re write but the point is that they had no authorisation from the legal owner to register a fully paid motorbike on their name first. All Thai people heard from this case aggreed that if they would buy a new motorbike (or car) by cash they also not want to have a pre-owner in the book. A different situation could be if the customer buy by credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umbanda Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Bagsida, I guess this isn't problem at all, and you don't loose anything when you sale your bike. If this vehicle is a bmw or fortuner, may be, but on scooter ....don't think. My Argentinean friend..I think you are wrong....Most Thai people do not like to buy second hand bikes because have to be paid in cash when can get a very good financing from banks or dealers. To sell a second hand bike the price has to be very good...for Thai people. A farang may pay more and pay cash...but also will compare with buying a brand new one. Anyway...not easy to sell a second hand for the "right" price... I had that painful experience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsida Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) How do these dealers buy at a cheaper price? Is it because they buy in bulk? When I was shopping for a motorbike a Thai friend told me that some dealers not just buy in bulk, its buy in lower prices bikes that are in the way to change looks because new models are coming. If the price is really a LOT lower, and comes with factory warranty, makes sense to buy from those dealers. Requires to shopping around and compares. If the bike will show previous owner, even the dealer's, my concern will be if the bike is really new or a bank repo. Thais are masters in detailing and restoration, and it is not illegal changing the odometer reading...... You´re write with these concerns but that bike I have bought there is 100% new, no one drive it before etc. but now there is a pre-owner in the book and if I want to sell it, may be the person is interested in buying will think like you. I like to buy old models before getting facelifts or something like that, because of these models mostly are better than new models and also cheaper because of the dealer wants to clear the stock. The point is the factory warranty what is lost if you bring your bike to an unauthorised mechanic for service. Edited January 10, 2014 by Bagsida Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsida Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 a lot of bike shops use fake or copied parts (very substandard) but the locals don't mind it because the cost is much lower and also the mechanics are not to industry standards especially for new bike engine maintenances. Also the mind of the locals regarding quality is changing. I personally wouldn't choose to buy from a bogus store but again its a choice, perhaps the store(s) may have some special in-house credit plans for their buyers to purchase the bike. (acknowledging the consequences of failing to make payments will result in repossession of bike) 100% agree - it´s a choice but the customer has to be informed about these issues before buying otherwise it wasn´t a choice but cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsida Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 My Argentinean friend....... Not Argentinean ...... German Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko45k Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Why would ap honda or any other mfg care who resells their bikes? As long as whoever you are buying from doesnt claim to be a dealer then no harm no foul....Shops such as Red Baron, pattaya super bikes etc have been saving customers money for years.... If they pose as authorised dealers, they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SumetCycle Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Years ago Honda didn't have a rule about independent dealers putting signage up like the one in your pic. Three years ago this changed though and it now not allowed. This is either a sub dealer for an authorized dealer or an old independent dealer who hasn't bothered to change his signage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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