My american husband died what can/should i do?

[oogster8]

Or, in the case of individually owned assets, had the wife as beneficiary (e.g., his IRA), or had the wife named as Pay on Death (POD) beneficary for financial accounts. The latter are so-called Totten Trust situations, and usually can easily be set up (USAA allows this to be done via phone). [A side benefit of POD beneficiaries is that FDIC insurance increases per POD beneficiary added -- so if you have most of your assets in one bank, this can preclude under insuring. See: https://www.fdic.gov/edie/index.html]

So, if the above is the situation, the widow won't have to worry about a Will, as probate is not involved. At least for US assets.

Jim, glad you mentioned POD... I have my fiance/soon-to-be legal wife listed as my beneficiary on almost all my U.S. financial accounts, except for a few that refused to list a beneficiary who didn't have a Social Security or ITIN # as my Thai fiance doesn't, at least for now.

But, the part I remain fuzzy about is, I've never been able to get any of them -- which admittedly, aren't for the most part international finance type institutions -- to explain just how exactly they'd proceed in terms of transferring the funds to my beneficiary in another country outside the U.S., in the event of my death.

I've given my fiance, to this point, a sealed envelope that she knows contains instructions for her should something bad happen with me. She doesn't know, for now, the detail of what's inside. But the envelope includes the paperwork and details on all the accounts where she's a beneficiary, along with some explanation of her needing to get the certificate of death-type document from the U.S. Consulate when that day comes, and then that she'll need that in dealing with my U.S. financial institutions in terms of getting them to perform the POD obligations.

But, over a period of time, I haven't seen much written here about any experiences with what's happened exactly in those kind of situations, presumably because the persons in question at that point are DEAD! I'm just trying to figure out how to make it as simple and uncomplicated as possible for my fiance/future wife.

And the banks, brokerages and insurance companies' staff haven't been very helpful in telling me just how their processes would work, come that day.

what would you do if she opeened the envelope tomorrow......................? i got to believe its a high probability she NEEDS to know whats inside.....lol.

your the kind of person trusts were invented for. how hard it will be depends on a lot if the ladee understand written and speaken english.

[JimGant]

I'm assuming the upshot of all the info you posted below -- and thanks very much for pulling it together here -- is that Thailand isn't listed on any of those Social Security-related lists. So survivors living in Thailand don't qualify for any of the special exceptions entitled to the survivors of folks from those listed countries.

John, just off the top of my head, I believe Thailand is on a list that allows survivor benefits to be paid, as long as the deceased SS recipient had been a US citizen (vice Green Card holder). But, again, your wife would have to have lived for 5 years in the US as your wife (unless, as pointed out above, she's a US citizen).

POD payments to overseas accounts is a new one to me. Suggest a joint account in the US, although that could be a problem setting up, at least until she gets at least an ITIN.

Even married 35 years to my Thai, with a log book of 'what to do' upon death, I know she'll still need a US person in Thailand to help her out. Sadly, I've been remiss to locate such a person -- although my golf swing these days reminds me I'm not immortal.

[boatguy]

Looking back thru this subject thread, I'm almost reminded of trying to read thru the USA tax code documents. ...bah humbug.

And why is Thailand not on a more favorable arrangement with the USA in terms of survivor benefits? Certainly our countries were on much more favorable status during Vietnam. And certainly there are a fair number of US men who have married Thai ladies, and live here.

Has there been so much abuse of the social security 'system' by people in Thailand that it has put them on a less favorable status?

I've never been married before, this very first one with my Thai wife. So I have no kids, and no living parents. We've been married for 6 years, and we live part time in USA and part time here (heavily dependent on season of the year),...but certainly not over a year at a time in either place. We also got married in both places so there would be no doubts or legal wranglings about the official nature of the marriage. And I file a joint income tax statement in the USA with her listed.

So why should it be so complicated for her to receive my SS retirement pmts when I die, just as any other wife in the USA would upon the passing of her husband?? (I'm 71, she is 57) . Why does she have to have lived in the USA for X number of years for this to happen. We are legally married in a court in the USA.

I guess it is sort of like trying to understand Thai immigration rules.....

[jcnbkk]

Ok I did some further research and if a non citizen dependent, living outside the US wanted to receive Social Security benefits , he or she IMO would need a lawyer familiar with the process, The requirements , conditions, and exceptions are so many, it would be difficult to negotiate the process on your own.

There treaties and agreements with many countries regarding payment of non citizen dependants living there But unfortunately as far as I can tell Thailand is not one of them

Here are the lists of qualifying countries. there might be others, that I could not find , but these lists come from an official US pdf.

http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/46681.pdf

Appendix A: Exception Countries

The following country lists, which are subject to change periodically, are taken

from the Code of Federal Regulations (C.F.R., revised through April 1, 2002) and

the Social Security Administration’s International Program web page.

Social Insurance or Pension System Countries

The following countries meet the “social insurance or pension system”

exception in Section 202(t)(2) of the Social Security Act:

Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Austria, Bahamas, Barbados, Belgium, Belize,

Bolivia, Brazil, Burkina Faso (formerly Upper Volta), Canada, Chile, Colombia,

Costa Rica, Cyprus, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominica, Dominican Republic,

Ecuador, El Salvador, Finland, France, Gabon, Grenada, Guatemala, Guyana,

Iceland, Ivory Coast, Jamaica, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Malta, Mexico,

Monaco, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Peru, Philippines, Poland,

Portugal, San Marino, Spain, St. Christopher and Nevis, St. Lucia, Sweden,

Switzerland, Trinidad and Tobago, Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands

(Micronesia), Turkey, United Kingdom, Western Samoa, Yugoslavia, Zaire

(20 C.F.R. § 404.463)

Treaty Obligation Countries

The following countries meet the “treaty obligation” exception in Section

202(t)(3) of the Social Security Act:

Germany, Greece, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Netherlands*

(20 C.F.R. § 404.463)

*Treaties between the United States and the Netherlands preclude the application

of residency requirements for noncitizens with respect to monthly survivor

benefits only.

Totalization Agreement Countries

The following countries meet the “totalization agreement” exception in Section

202(t)(11)(E) of the Social Security Act. The effective date is shown for each

agreement.

Australia October 1, 2002

Austria November 1, 1991

Belgium July 1, 1984

Canada August 1, 1984

Chile December 1, 2001

Finland November 1, 1992

France July 1, 1988

Germany December 1, 1979

Greece September 1, 1994

Ireland September 1, 1993

Italy November 1, 1978

South Korea April 1, 2001

Luxembourg November 1, 1993

Netherlands November 1, 1990

Norway July 1, 1984

Portugal August 1, 1989

Spain April 1, 1988

Sweden January 1, 1987

Switzerland November 1, 1980

United Kingdom 1985/1988*

* Provisions that eliminate double taxation became effective January 1, 1985;

provisions that allow persons to use work in both countries to qualify for benefits

became effective January 1, 1988.

Note: Agreements with Austria, Belgium, Germany, Sweden and Switzerland

permit the individual to receive benefits as a dependent or survivor while a

resident in those countries only if the worker is a U.S. citizen or a citizen of the

country of residence.

A description and the complete text of each agreement are available on SSA’s

website at [http://www.ssa.gov/international/agreement_descriptions.html]

I have been lookingg into this. Found this pdf. http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/EN-05-10137.pdf . Shows Thailand on list of exceptions, on pg 9, not sure which list.

Then found an online questionnaire on sea.gov or socialecurity.gov, can't remember which. When I answered the questions - spouse-green card- lived in US 5 yrs- Thai citizen- living in Thailand, is said she would be able to receive benefits living in Thailand. The way I read it, without the six mo. limit, just certain reporting.

[jcnbkk]

The Social Security Office for Asia is in the US Embassy, Manila 63-230-12000 or email Jose Jonjie - FSP Manila <[email protected]>.He is current contact person but they come and go. Whoever is there is usually very responsive. I have had good success with them. They know everything. Don't waste your time anywhere else especially USA SSA in America. The foreign spouse does not have to have lived in USA for 5 years but it does make it a lot easier. Call Manila for the details. Good luck.

Hi, can you direct me to anywhere it states a foreign wife does have to have lived in the US 5 yrs? Or have to have had a green card? I've been looking all over the SS websites. I did email the address above. Thanks.

[Spaniel]

The Social Security Office for Asia is in the US Embassy, Manila 63-230-12000 or email Jose Jonjie - FSP Manila <[email protected]>.He is current contact person but they come and go. Whoever is there is usually very responsive. I have had good success with them. They know everything. Don't waste your time anywhere else especially USA SSA in America. The foreign spouse does not have to have lived in USA for 5 years but it does make it a lot easier. Call Manila for the details. Good luck.

Hi, can you direct me to anywhere it states a foreign wife does have to have lived in the US 5 yrs? Or have to have had a green card? I've been looking all over the SS websites. I did email the address above. Thanks.

I thought a foreign spouse had to reside in the USA for 5 years before he/she was eligible to receive SS.

[NanLaew]

...who knows the full details.......hmmm.....

There's one...

Like i said id be preparing the widow for the worst. The husband must not have thought much of the thai lady if he didnt give her a copy of his will or directions on how to get it after his death.

There's two...

Looks like the husband did not fulfill his part of the husband/wife "take care" bargain. He should have had all his/her ducks in a row before he died. Unfortunately this is a common story ... and not just with falang husbands in Thailand.

And a third...

Good luck ! I hope your friend gets as much money as a farang would get if his thai wife died.

There you go, four of a kind of lonely farang woman-haters who have abso-&lt;deleted&gt;-lutely NOTHING to offer in the way of advice because they despise Thai people in general and Thai women in particular. Living alone and avoiding relationships pretty much wipes out their ability to offer anything based on real life experience apart from their bitterness, loneliness and vitriol.

Well done chaps!