Class membership vs lower-register language "insults"

[wym]

I tend to only speak Thai with ordinary (poor rural) Thais, since all the well-educated wealthy ones I know speak English better than I speak Thai.

Therefore I tend to use the less formal vocabulary, especially with people in my family, neighbors and co-workers I'm on a very familiar basis with, to the point that I know their mia noi's etc.

Over in General, some posters are saying that some of these lower-register vocabulary words are actually insulting.

My impression is it may be the case that more upper-class educated Thais, or those with such pretensions, would prefer to only communicate with foreigners in what they consider "proper" Thai, and consider it insulting for a foreigner to address them in an informal way.

Also the fact so many foreigners are mongers with peasant girls.

Or even possibly that these posters may not (yet) be on intimate terms with the Thais they're conversing with.

Sample post:

It is true that stuck-up face-obsessed wannabee-hiso Thais will make a point of only using higher-register formal language

panlaya rather than mia
samii rather than pua

Rather strange. Mia is not particularly polite, but the word pua is an outright insult even in common talk.

Not in my experience, when talking to ordinary people I use it all the time and no one seems offended, maybe they're just being tolerant of my ignorance?

Any feedback welcome, and feel free to do so within the original thread:

Edited January 15, 2014 by wym

[rgs2001uk]

Many times on general forum I read about farangs posting about their language skills, some even claim to be fluent (whatever that may mean?)

Thai is a layered language with differering levels of politeness depending on the situation (pee/nong staus) and who wants what from the other.

I and the Thais I converse with regularly use mia/pua and no offence is taken.

If you think these stuck up Bkk snobs dont know the language of the local market many on here would be in for a shock at the pronouns used in private.

My mrs hated it when I spoke to her grandmother, not at the language used, out of fear I would repeat the language, she didnt want others to think she had taught it to me.

When dealing with strangers I speak very polite and proper, when talking to friends and family its a different vocabulary.

[wym]

Thanks, and look forward to others confirming this, or perhaps agreeing with Morakot wrt "pua".

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So when my ex-wife is screaming at me I realize that ee-heea is an unequivocal insult in and of itself.

How about her use of the pronouns "mueng" and "goo"? Are those neutral in meaning and just lower in register? Or inherently insulting?

Edited January 15, 2014 by wym

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^^,

I can only talk for myself, I hear the mrs using goo and meung on the phone everyday when talking with family or friends.

A long time ago it dawned on me I must be making progress in the language when the mrs went to another room to carry on the conversation on the phone and didnt want me to hear.

One of the problems of learning by hearing, is you dont know the context or politness being used.

One example, when I was at Thai school the teacher asked a student, how is the weather today?

Answer, its effin roasting.

Thai teacher gobsmacked, I pissed myself with laughter, Jap students trying quickly to write it down before they forgot it.

The student had learned the language in a purely Thai enviornment, he just repeated what he had heard.

An example for one of my mistakes, tua lek, when referring to a child.

I hear the mrs using this term every day, muggins being unaware used it outside the house, egg on face and felt like a <deleted>, thankfully the Thais where I live put me straight.

[wym]

Yes I had no idea there's anything wrong with using dtua lek to refer to a cute kid in any context. . .

[Morakot]

Thanks, and look forward to others confirming this, or perhaps agreeing with Morakot wrt "pua".

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So when my ex-wife is screaming at me I realize that ee-heea is an unequivocal insult in and of itself.

How about her use of the pronouns "mueng" and "goo"? Are those neutral in meaning and just lower in register? Or inherently insulting?

I see. If you use mueng/goo than pua should be fine.

[Morakot]

If you think these stuck up Bkk snobs dont know the language of the local market many on here would be in for a shock at the pronouns used in private.

Snobs everywhere in the world! Shocking!

Edited January 16, 2014 by Morakot

[Johpa]

If you really want to tick off the Hi-So pretentious then bring your social register upwards once you notice their discomfort. This signals that you have some awareness of the lasting traces of feudalism in the Thai language and then, later, drop back down to a more casual register to show a trace of disdain for their pretentiousness.