New rules. I will need actual teaching degree to teach in Thailand?

[dutchchiangmai]

This topic amuses me !

Are you people really " professionals" ?

If so, should I start a thread that argues that Medical Doctors only need a first aid certificate to practice. Engineers would of course only have to recognise the difference between a screwdriver and a wrench. Veterinarians would clearly have to know how to tell tell the difference between a dog and a cat.

Do you people expect airline pilots to be fully proficient and Qualified for their profession or will a 3 month "never fail" TEAFL type course on flying big airplanes satisfy the need ?

If the Thai authorities are moving toward ensuring only fully qualified professional people are employed to educate Thai children is that not something to applaud ?

Would you demand a degree from your gardener or house maid or would you be satisfied with the quality of their work? I don't know if or where you work as a teacher, but anyone working in a Thai government or a Thai private school, for the levels p1 to M4, knows that there is very little demand for real educators with Ed degrees and that the current demand is more for entertainers with the ability to pass on some knowledge to their students.

[sushi5734]

It's a complete fantasy by the MoE, but that won't stop quite a few people being put through a lot of stress and anxiety. As for the people trolling 'get qualified or leave' I doubt that any of you are teachers, qualified or not and probably haven't been within 500 meters of a Thai school. Anyone who has taught in Thailand would immediately recognise how ludicrous these proposals are. Most people in my country UK take an undergraduate degree then move on to a PGCE after graduation, not too many people take a 4 year education degree. The main reason for this is that qualified teachers need specialist knowledge i.e. if your going to teach maths then you should have a degree in the field of mathematics. The one year PGCE is mainly classroom based with continual observation from teaching mentors as well as your lecturers, it's pretty intensive and stressful by all accounts. The latest government training scheme puts graduates in the classroom after just 6 weeks. The gap between a graduate and a Newly Qualified Teacher who has taken and passed a PGCE is not completely unsurpassable and, I know this is insane and I doubt it will happen, but why not provide a training course to bridge that gap? I have a BSc so I feel that I have the subject knowledge to teach my subject, however over the years I have watched, listened to advice from both Thai and foreign teachers, some qualified, some not, even some without degrees, who I consider to better teachers than me, as they have far more experience than I do. Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Well the MoE makes the rules here, so their "fantasy" is your reality. The main thrust of these proposals is simply that people who work as teachers shoud be qualified as such. This is common sense to many of us; any parent would agree.

By the way, I am not trolling when I say "get qualified or leave", I am simply trying to advise unqualified people of their best alternatives; in the not too distant future there will be no place here for unqualified "teachers".

They can ask and even beg for western qualified teachers all they want, but actually getting them is a completely different matter!!

One of my best friends is a qualified teacher and is half Thai friend, he has family ties here and was looking at the possibility of teaching at an international school, however all of the top tier schools are in Bangkok and but didn't want to live there, I casually suggested the possibility of teaching in a normal school to fill time, he said it would actually damage his career by working anywhere other than a good international school in Thailand.

It would be far better to train the teachers we already have here, if they aren't sufficiently skilled or qualified then let's raise them to the required standard, isn't that the idea of education? I'm sure most committed teachers here wouldn't begrudge taking a few training courses and having their lessons observed if it meant being fully licensed. I anticipate that there will be some form of seminar or course as the MoE and TCT will see this as an opportunity to make some money, rather than improve standards...not exactly a shock!

The reality is that many foreigners are teaching here without degrees and many of them teach to a higher standard than the average Thai teacher. These teachers have already been pushed into the loopholes and now teachers with a non education degree will probably be forced into the same situation, so the situation on the ground will not change much.

What concerns me more than qualifications being checked, is that at the moment criminal records are not checked at all, no one seems to give a s#!t about safeguarding children, a simple criminal background check required to renew any visa and work permit would get rid of a lot of dodgy characters.

My issue with the 'go home or get qualified' comments is that no one in their right mind is going to go home to take a PGCE so that they can work in a government school or normal private school, it's just ridiculous! There are a lot of dedicated, well educated, professional teachers (in respect of their conduct not membership of a professional body) come under that group and you have to ask, when they clear the classrooms of these undesirable graduates, who will be left? Thai teachers, Filipino teachers and those working without any qualifications at all, is that really an improvement?

Ask any parent which they would prefer, when you explain to them that western qualified teachers are not really interested in working in normal Thai schools, even if you doubled or trebled the pay.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Yooyung]

It's a complete fantasy by the MoE, but that won't stop quite a few people being put through a lot of stress and anxiety. As for the people trolling 'get qualified or leave' I doubt that any of you are teachers, qualified or not and probably haven't been within 500 meters of a Thai school. Anyone who has taught in Thailand would immediately recognise how ludicrous these proposals are. Most people in my country UK take an undergraduate degree then move on to a PGCE after graduation, not too many people take a 4 year education degree. The main reason for this is that qualified teachers need specialist knowledge i.e. if your going to teach maths then you should have a degree in the field of mathematics. The one year PGCE is mainly classroom based with continual observation from teaching mentors as well as your lecturers, it's pretty intensive and stressful by all accounts. The latest government training scheme puts graduates in the classroom after just 6 weeks. The gap between a graduate and a Newly Qualified Teacher who has taken and passed a PGCE is not completely unsurpassable and, I know this is insane and I doubt it will happen, but why not provide a training course to bridge that gap? I have a BSc so I feel that I have the subject knowledge to teach my subject, however over the years I have watched, listened to advice from both Thai and foreign teachers, some qualified, some not, even some without degrees, who I consider to better teachers than me, as they have far more experience than I do. Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Well the MoE makes the rules here, so their "fantasy" is your reality. The main thrust of these proposals is simply that people who work as teachers shoud be qualified as such. This is common sense to many of us; any parent would agree.

By the way, I am not trolling when I say "get qualified or leave", I am simply trying to advise unqualified people of their best alternatives; in the not too distant future there will be no place here for unqualified "teachers".

They can ask and even beg for western qualified teachers all they want, but actually getting them is a completely different matter!!

One of my best friends is a qualified teacher and is half Thai friend, he has family ties here and was looking at the possibility of teaching at an international school, however all of the top tier schools are in Bangkok and but didn't want to live there, I casually suggested the possibility of teaching in a normal school to fill time, he said it would actually damage his career by working anywhere other than a good international school in Thailand.

It would be far better to train the teachers we already have here, if they aren't sufficiently skilled or qualified then let's raise them to the required standard, isn't that the idea of education? I'm sure most committed teachers here wouldn't begrudge taking a few training courses and having their lessons observed if it meant being fully licensed. I anticipate that there will be some form of seminar or course as the MoE and TCT will see this as an opportunity to make some money, rather than improve standards...not exactly a shock!

The reality is that many foreigners are teaching here without degrees and many of them teach to a higher standard than the average Thai teacher. These teachers have already been pushed into the loopholes and now teachers with a non education degree will probably be forced into the same situation, so the situation on the ground will not change much.

What concerns me more than qualifications being checked, is that at the moment criminal records are not checked at all, no one seems to give a s#!t about safeguarding children, a simple criminal background check required to renew any visa and work permit would get rid of a lot of dodgy characters.

My issue with the 'go home or get qualified' comments is that no one in their right mind is going to go home to take a PGCE so that they can work in a government school or normal private school, it's just ridiculous! There are a lot of dedicated, well educated, professional teachers (in respect of their conduct not membership of a professional body) come under that group and you have to ask, when they clear the classrooms of these undesirable graduates, who will be left? Thai teachers, Filipino teachers and those working without any qualifications at all, is that really an improvement?

Ask any parent which they would prefer, when you explain to them that western qualified teachers are not really interested in working in normal Thai schools, even if you doubled or trebled the pay.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I am in full agreement with you.

I would be happy to undertake some kind of further study here in Thailand if it wasnt too mickey mouse. If it were a recognised course that actually taught me something AND got me a teachers licence I would be more than willing. There was something like this offered a few years ago, but it was cancellled. I have a degree/TEFL and a lot of teaching experience here........I want to stay.....throw me a bone for gods sake!

[Scott]

The general problem is an archaic education system. If you want to take training in the Thai system, you might want to try reading teaching text books from the 1940's.

The admin want most teachers to teach like the Thai teacher. The students can say a word then spell it 3 times; on to the next word. Vocabulary is the key. We have a subject which is called 'creative writing'. It is taught by a Thai teacher and what is taught is to write beautifully....as in cursive writing. Only copying words, but they must be beautiful.

I can give you a few other examples, but as a very general rule, the system is archaic. What is spoken is spoken in unison with 30 other students.

[inzman]

Lets be realistic, for teaching conversational English, most people will agree, due to the level of pay, anybody with a degree and a NES would be sufficient to teaching english here. The Thai teachers certainly can't fill the role. If you disagree with this, I would be inclined to think you have personal issues and are not being honest with yourself. Thailand suffers from a lack of teachers in English conversation. Thailand is far behind the rest of the ASEAN community in its English ability. Why would anyone be so pigheaded as to deny the kids here the opportunity to learn conversational English from a NES who wants to help. Is it because of selfishness and the attitude that, oh,I have an advanced degree in language or education, so you should too. Well if you do have those kind of qualifications, why are you here making such shit money? There are not enough teachers with advanced degrees in the world to fill the roles, the kids will have an opportunity to advance themselves and the NES will fulfill his desire to help the underprivileged. We certainly don't do it for the money. Wise up, and look for ways to help, not hinder. If your not part of the solution, don't be part of the problem. We all could use a little more charity in our hearts.

[fifthcolumn]

I agree there are plenty of degree snobs who are rubbish teachers, I've witnessed a few in the past. I've said this previously and I stick by it now, if you're staying here for the long term and want a progressive career in teaching. Learn to speak Thai. If you can write vocabulary translations on the board and explain grammar points in Thai, it's very helpful. Aside from that you're immediately accepted into what is often a very challenging workplace environment. Social suicide is hard to avoid, when you're dealing with a face culture.

"degree snobs"

You are correct because the non-degreed misfits never last a month.

Sure non-degreed teachers are working in Bangkok and if they can hold down a job at the same school for a few years at a time as opposed to getting axed annually, they are good enough for Thailand and I would be willing to make an exception.

I see a liberal arts BA plus a 120 hour TEFL course proper for Thailand to demand. If they think they can fill the employment roster with BA Ed's. Well, good luck.

That is what most of you are missing:

ASEAN + Filipino's = B15k = Problem Solved

Yeah, it would be great to be given a course in Thailand but we all know that is not going to happen for many, many reasons. <deleted> they cannot even roll out a date for the TCT exams or keep the idiotic Thai Culture Course going.

Finally, to "quality" have you ever seen a college student carrying around a backpack full of books? One book? Reading? Anything?

[Scott]

Some off-topic posts and replies have been deleted. Please stay on topic, which is about the new rules.

I always find it immensely entertaining when people have such intimate knowledge about different teachers -- they have seen 'many' bad teachers with degrees and 'many' good teachers without degrees. Are we really supposed to believe that you have spent your time reviewing and assessing classes?

My guess is that most of these assessments have been made from a bar stool. But since that's not the topic, we need not discuss it further.

[Notable]

They won't get native speakers with an ED to teach in the provinces for 25k. Almost all of the big cities in Issan won't employ Cameroonian or Philippino teachers either, maybe outside the city boundaries yes. The MOD knows it needs to improve standards, but there's no way they want to increase salaries. Just imagine how many teachers would be sacked if an ED was required, those left with ED'S would be asking for 60k a month. It won't happen.

[sushi5734]

At my school we are assessed at least once a year by Thai and foreign teachers, we evaluate each other's lesson planning, classroom management and overall teaching performance, there's a ton of other categories but I don't have the forms to hand. We also have to give a best practice presentation to the whole department and senior management a few times a year. I have observed both good and bad teachers whether they be graduates or not, teachers with a degree do tend to be a bit better on the whole but that doesn't stop a graduate being a useless tw@t or a non degreed teacher from being absolutely fantastic.

As for the bar stool assessment, yes of course that happens but normally when someone is an absolute embarrassment.

I would guess that schools willing to accept people with no qualifications, are more likely to treat their teachers like dirt and as a result have a high turnover of staff and in a vicious circle of needing to take anyone that turns up....som nam naa!!

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[fifthcolumn]

*Deleted quote edited out*

But it's always like this. If it's not your trollish behavior, it's someone else's, but it's always the same rant.

It's so tired and so vapid.

Non degreed older male who really needs the job going on and on and on about how degree holders don't measure up but those without higher education exceed and suceed.

Yup, Johns Hopkins - please stop giving us educated people, what a waste!

I mean if you were giving a lecture at Chula on how big a waste of time going to Stanford was and how irrelevant it was to you making a half billion dollars, I might have an ear.

You are just a sad guy with no money, no plan in life. Clearly never thought going to college was worthwhile. You learned by your 30s that was the worst chouce of your life, but it was too late.

Not really too late because the truth is, you don't have the discipline to get thru school.

Washed up in Thailand and uses teaching for 25k a month as a way to fuel his daily cigarette and ham sandwich habit. Half bottle of Lao Khao a night and an overweight and over the hill hooker once a month.

Some schools are crap, some students get nothing out of the process. Guaranteed many slackers study English as a major. But to castigate an entire group of people is just wrong snd to be so bitter toward those that have achieved what is honestly a fairly common achievement is just plain wrong.

You are clearly in the wrong vocation. Your stance would indicate that you think it perfectly fine for your graduating students to not seek higher education.

It's petulent, childish, stupid and wrong. Since when and how could learning be a bad thing.

I bet half the managers at McDonald's in the US have no less than an AA or AS.

To end the argument, lets just say that it is a piece of crap paper, a barrier to entry. You don't have that ticket. You lose.

You must be lovely to work with.

[ChrisB87]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

You only need to look at the other ASEAN member states teaching requirements to see what's going to happen. BA degree plus PGCE, CELTA or TESOL. There's no way they're going to insist on an ED degree.

Let's hope so.

[ArtHay]

I've taught English in Korea, Taiwan, mainland China and Thailand for over a decade and I have to say, that in my opinion, insisting that foreign English teachers have an education degree would be a mistake. The problems associated with teaching English here aren't exclusively a product of under qualified teachers. A school system that is underfunded and neglected by government staffed with poorly paid and under motivated Thai teachers following a no fail policy has far greater problems than a few under qualified native speakers.

The only certain result of insisting that foreign teachers have education degrees would be to strip rural Thailand of teachers who are native speakers leaving the children there to be taught by Thai teachers who whose ability and motivation to speak English in the classroom is questionable. I say this because I really don't believe that there would be enough foreign teachers with education degrees interested in working in Thailand to satisfy the demand, and most of the available qualified teachers would prefer to work in a city where salaries would be more generous and amenities more available.

If anyone were actually serious about fixing the Thai education system than paying the Thai teachers a decent salary and dumping the no fail system would be a good start.

I read earlier someone mentioning Korea, I wouldn't recommend it for several reasons.

If anyone wants to move on and wants my impressions of Korea, Taiwan or China please feel free to PM me.

One last thing, if there are any grammar errors in this post, as I am certain they are, don't bother to comment on them, I don't care, this is a post on an Internet forum not a doctoral thesis.

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[Scott]

Comments are grammar/spelling/punctuation/sentence structure, etc., will be deleted and the poster faces a possible suspension.

[ArtHay]

Understood, it's a taboo subject, sorry for mentioning it.

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[lostinisaan]

If you did not study successfully to become a teacher in your home country, or have not obtained a diploma in social education, I ask you not to teach in Thailand, for the sake of the kids.

I've met quite a few who were teachers back in their country of origin. But teaching in Thailand is a completely different ball game.

One British teacher couldn't adjust to Thai society, another "qualified teacher" couldn't eat Thai food. The kids in an EP setup hated them both.

Some people can be excellent language teachers, some will never be able to. I ask you not to post some information that might not benefit the kids of Thailand.

Are you a teacher in this country?

Edited May 15, 2014 by lostinisaan

[lostinisaan]

Comments are grammar/spelling/punctuation/sentence structure, etc., will be deleted and the poster faces a possible suspension.

[fxe1200]

If you did not study successfully to become a teacher in your home country, or have not obtained a diploma in social education, I ask you not to teach in Thailand, for the sake of the kids.

I've met quite a few who were teachers back in their country of origin. But teaching in Thailand is a completely different ball game.

One British teacher couldn't adjust to Thai society, another "qualified teacher" couldn't eat Thai food. The kids in an EP setup hated them both.

Some people can be excellent language teachers, some will never be able to. I ask you not to post some information that might not benefit the kids of Thailand.

Are you a teacher in this country?

Here is your ball game:

Why is psychology, methodical approaches, didactics, and so on, being taught during the studying? Don't you think, that a certain level of knowledge is necessary when one teaches in Thailand? In your home country you would not get a position as a teacher without a proper education. And that is right. Why should it be different in Thailand? And if a qualified teacher is not able to live, understand, or even adapt or habituate to the Thai society, he should go home. And all those, who are here, trying to "transport" the curriculum into the brains of Thai children, without having thoroughly studied, will not be of any help either. It just takes more to teach, than being a "native speaker", who has done whatever, what else in his/her earlier life. I admit, there surely are some good and successful teachers even without a scientific background. But this is not the rule, and they even might speak Welsh. And for the reasons mentioned above, I did write my first comment.

I am German, qualified, and live in Thailand for 12 years. I taught English at private schools using a concept, which one can roughly describe as "Edutainment", or "learning by doing". Now I am retired.

[alex88]

A close friend of mine here in Australia has recently been given a job teaching English to business people. She has no education qualifications at all but she is a native English speaker with a marketing degree.

If that's enough in a 1st world native English speaking country then why not in a developing country such as Thailand?

Edited May 16, 2014 by alex88

[CookieMonster1]

alex88

Why not just obtain a "Celta " and teach "English" in your own country of origin?

With the "degree" and the "Celta" teaching "English" at home would bring more status, a better salary and the opportunity of career progression !

Is there any reason why this would not be a viable option ?

Definitely.

I recently came across this site and they seem to have a good number of jobs available and I don't just mean Thailand, www.tefljobs.asia

worth a look for any teachers I would say.

[culicine]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

You only need to look at the other ASEAN member states teaching requirements to see what's going to happen. BA degree plus PGCE, CELTA or TESOL. There's no way they're going to insist on an ED degree.

Let's hope so.

PGCE / Grad Dip is a common route for teachers in Western schools. Many have Ed degrees, but I've found they are mostly primary school teachers.

[samsensam]

i doubt a teaching degree would be mandatory but common sense says a PGCE or CETLA or equivalent should be required.

would you send your child to a school employing unqualified teachers?

would you go to an unqualified lawyer for legal advice? would you get your teeth fixed by an unqualified dentist? etc...

[puchooay]

i doubt a teaching degree would be mandatory but common sense says a PGCE or CETLA or equivalent should be required.

would you send your child to a school employing unqualified teachers?

would you go to an unqualified lawyer for legal advice? would you get your teeth fixed by an unqualified dentist? etc...

So.....just out of interest.

Would you say that a qualified Thai English teacher should have the ability to string sentences together? Should they be able to understand English well enough to hold a conversation?

If so, I am afraid you are out of luck in a very high percentage of Thai schools.

With this in mind maybe you would like to rethink your comment.

Also your second sentence is suggesting that anyone with a CELTA is qualified. That is the one point of this thread. The powers that be are saying that they are not.

Is there anyone that actually has received a PGCEi and obtained a teacher licence ( not waiver) without TCT seeing their degree, thus only using the PGCEi for qualification?

Edited December 9, 2014 by puchooay

[Yooyung]

i doubt a teaching degree would be mandatory but common sense says a PGCE or CETLA or equivalent should be required.

would you send your child to a school employing unqualified teachers?

would you go to an unqualified lawyer for legal advice? would you get your teeth fixed by an unqualified dentist? etc...

So.....just out of interest.

Would you say that a qualified Thai English teacher should have the ability to string sentences together? Should they be able to understand English well enough to hold a conversation?

If so, I am afraid you are out of luck in a very high percentage of Thai schools.

With this in mind maybe you would like to rethink your comment.

Also your second sentence is suggesting that anyone with a CELTA is qualified. That is the one point of this thread. The powers that be are saying that they are not.

Is there anyone that actually has received a PGCEi and obtained a teacher licence ( not waiver) without TCT seeing their degree, thus only using the PGCEi for qualification?

That is the question that I am very interested in Puchooay. I have a degree and am on my first waiver. I have looked into all types of qualifications, including expensive masters degrees and the Nottingham PGCEi looks like a good option.....if its accepted. I have heard from others that people have been able to get a teachers licence using this qualification.....and then others have said you cant. Its a very frustrating situation. I am happy to do some further study, but would be happier spending 150,000 ish Baht (Nottingham uni) rather than almost 300,000 Baht which is what most masters degrees come to.

So, who has a teaching licence here based on the PGCEi ????? I'd love to know.

[inzman]

*Deleted quote edited out*

But it's always like this. If it's not your trollish behavior, it's someone else's, but it's always the same rant.

It's so tired and so vapid.

Non degreed older male who really needs the job going on and on and on about how degree holders don't measure up but those without higher education exceed and suceed.

Yup, Johns Hopkins - please stop giving us educated people, what a waste!

I mean if you were giving a lecture at Chula on how big a waste of time going to Stanford was and how irrelevant it was to you making a half billion dollars, I might have an ear.

You are just a sad guy with no money, no plan in life. Clearly never thought going to college was worthwhile. You learned by your 30s that was the worst chouce of your life, but it was too late.

Not really too late because the truth is, you don't have the discipline to get thru school.

Washed up in Thailand and uses teaching for 25k a month as a way to fuel his daily cigarette and ham sandwich habit. Half bottle of Lao Khao a night and an overweight and over the hill hooker once a month.

Some schools are crap, some students get nothing out of the process. Guaranteed many slackers study English as a major. But to castigate an entire group of people is just wrong snd to be so bitter toward those that have achieved what is honestly a fairly common achievement is just plain wrong.

You are clearly in the wrong vocation. Your stance would indicate that you think it perfectly fine for your graduating students to not seek higher education.

It's petulent, childish, stupid and wrong. Since when and how could learning be a bad thing.

I bet half the managers at McDonald's in the US have no less than an AA or AS.

To end the argument, lets just say that it is a piece of crap paper, a barrier to entry. You don't have that ticket. You lose.

You must be lovely to work with.

Wow, you are a mean and evil man! I haven't seen this level of hate on TV in a while. I hope,you don't have a heart attack or aneurism. Don't have many friends do you. What is the root of your dislike for the human race, mommy treat you like crap?

[brianp0803]

I heard that TCT is now offering a 3rd unrestricted waiver before requiring you to be enrolled in a program to get Education degree.

Is this the beginning of a thaw in the strict requirements?

It is a nice goal for all teachers to have Ed degree but way out of line from other surrounding countries.

A one month training course to teach English(CELTA) seems to open many doors in many countries.

Might Thailand soon abandon the idea of all teachers having Education degree?

But I think they are still asking for their special letter from the University.

Maybe a CELTA should be enough for teaching adults in language schools but only require a university degree for teaching in regular schools.

[casualbiker]

Try St Roberts global .. they do a teaching diploma. Not sure if you can still take it by its self.