To Barack Obama: Mr President, some facts you should know about the Thai political crisis

[Carrerakiss]

I think the letter is as poorly written, as the protests are in directed.

The whole point of the civil disobedience should not be to get rid of the Shinawatra government/influence. They are just one of any number of rich and powerful families that exert undue influence on the political process. The point of the good lady's letter, and the protests, should be to insist on the introduction of reforms to stop any family or individual having the ability to exert undue influence on the political process.

And that's where things have gone wrong. The good lady and the demonstrators should be announciating very very clearly what reforms they want to see. And writing to the US President and demonstrating on the streets in favour of those reforms. Indeed, bringing down the government in favour of those reforms, if need be.

But instead, the good lady and the protestors simply put to the sword the Shinawatra clan. This has several flaws in terms of achieving reforms, including but not limited to:

1. They immediately alienate Shinawatra supporters. People who may support reforms, but also want to side with Shinawatra, will not support the protest.

2. The protestors leave themselves open to the accusation that they do not actually want true reform, they simply wish to replace the Shinawatra influence with other influences more aligned to themselves.

3. It creates a situation where there is a winning side and a losing side. This means that the cycle of conflict within Thailand will continue, because the losing side will seek to become the winning side in the next cycle.

The good lady may be a learned intellectual within Thailand, but it seems to me that her letter to the US president displays neither learning, nor intellect. I fully appreciate that the good lady was responding to a letter written by the " other side" . I have not read that letter, but would be amazed If the same was not also true of that letter.

What is required is for the political situation in Thailand to become less about individuals and more about the political process. The opposition ( in the widest sense of the word, political parties, protesters, students etc etc) to the current government should clearly annouciate the reforms they seek. They should then take action in persuit of those reforms, seeking the support of ordinary people,if it should prove necessary to do so.

A letter to the US president setting out the specific reforms sought, maybe far more informative for him, than a potted history of one persons view of a single individual. The issue at stake is the political process, not any one individual or family.

[Carrerakiss]

As part of the Sor Por Kor 4-01 (สปก.4-01) land reform scheme, Suthep gave title deeds to 592 plots of land in Khao Sam Liam, Kamala and Nakkerd hills of Phuket province to 489 farmers. It was later found that members of 11 wealthy families in Phuket were among the recipients. Suthep addressed a huge crowd in his Surat Thani constituency a month before a no-confidence debate and called on his supporters to march on Bangkok in the hundreds of thousands to defend his reputation. The scandal led Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai of the Democrat Party to dissolve the House of Representatives in July 1995 in order to avoid the no-confidence debate. In subsequent elections, Thai Nation Party won a majority, leading to the downfall of Chuan Leekpai's Democrat Party-led government.

Can you not understand your own quote Suthep basher ?

Out of 592 plots that were given to 489 farmers only 11 were wealthy families.

Meaning that the other 478 farmers were not wealthy.

This land was given to those who had a history of occupation of the land, in some cases for generations.

Why should any segment who had that history be left out just because of their financial status ?

I believe the plots of land were not equal in size. I also understand that the terms of allocation contained a wealth barrier, ie they were intended for the poor only. But others probably have a more knowledge of the details.

[jackrich]

As part of the Sor Por Kor 4-01 (สปก.4-01) land reform scheme, Suthep gave title deeds to 592 plots of land in Khao Sam Liam, Kamala and Nakkerd hills of Phuket province to 489 farmers. It was later found that members of 11 wealthy families in Phuket were among the recipients. Suthep addressed a huge crowd in his Surat Thani constituency a month before a no-confidence debate and called on his supporters to march on Bangkok in the hundreds of thousands to defend his reputation. The scandal led Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai of the Democrat Party to dissolve the House of Representatives in July 1995 in order to avoid the no-confidence debate. In subsequent elections, Thai Nation Party won a majority, leading to the downfall of Chuan Leekpai's Democrat Party-led government.

Can you not understand your own quote Suthep basher ?

Out of 592 plots that were given to 489 farmers only 11 were wealthy families.

Meaning that the other 478 farmers were not wealthy.

This land was given to those who had a history of occupation of the land, in some cases for generations.

Why should any segment who had that history be left out just because of their financial status ?

So that makes it okay? The land was specifically allocated to be given to POOR farmers, not to rich families. I wonder how much they paid Suthep to receive those plots of land? Probably the nice ones with ocean view or beachfront.

If 11 were wealthy families, how many of those 592 lots of land did they receive? How many went to really poor farmers?

The entire Democrat-led government RESIGNED and they lost the next elections, before Suthep was forced to testify, so it must have been really bad if you're willing to give up the entire government to prevent one person (Suthep) from testifying:

Suthep addressed a huge crowd in his Surat Thani constituency a month before a no-confidence debate and called on his supporters to march on Bangkok in the hundreds of thousands to defend his reputation. The scandal led Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai of the Democrat Party to dissolve the House of Representatives in July 1995 in order to avoid the no-confidence debate.

We need TRANSPARENCY as Suthep himself has requested.

[bobmac10]

Michael Turner will have a chuckle after reading that nonsense.

Poor old Vanina Sucharitkul hasn't a clue in the slightest what democacy means.

Agreed, it's as if he has selective amnesia pre-Thaksin.

[NHT]

Well written and 100% true. Good to educate some of the westerners who talk a lot about 'democracy' but don't seem to know the crimes which include the murders done under the Shinawatras.

And yes, the democratic system here has failed miserably.

And keeps failing under the democratic protesters. Gimme a break.

What's next, a letter to Pranab Kumar Mukherjee, Xi Jinping, Angela Dorothea Merkel ...?

Does it really matter how much anyone knows about this circus?

Let's continue laughing.

[F430murci]

Not quite sure what to think about this letter. Although she mentioned some real good points,

there's nothing the world wouldn't have been aware of already. She conveniently forgets to put

all the other crocks in to her equation. At least if she would have commented on all the fractions

involved it would be a brilliant posting but like this? Now, is this letter a reply to a silly statement

of an US Senator or just propaganda aimed at the English speaking readers in Thailand?

First thought, if a Thai-Franco-American lawyer subsidises her income by filling out hundreds

of surveys to make XXX$ every week in order to try to "survive as a Parisian girl" how much

does she earn a week to write letters?

[ https://twitter.com/princessvanina ]

"First thought, if a Thai-Franco-American lawyer subsidises her income by filling out hundreds

of surveys to make XXX$ every week in order to try to "survive as a Parisian girl" how much

does she earn a week to write letters? "

Probably not as much as the good congressman received from Raytheon and a range of other defense industry companies to write his letter....

Do you have any evidence or basis for your statement or do you just make false and defamatory statements whenever necessary to try and substantiate a personal belief? Statements like this only serve to undermine everything you say and make you appear as a nutter lacking objectivity or driven by resentment.

[wlcart]

" the most tyrannical and dictatorial leader in history"

Come on now, that is just dramatic. I know Thaksin is a first class scum bag, but many in history have surpassed his low life abilities. How could a foreign president like Obama even begin to sort out a mess like this? He won't even try!

[moonao]

Michael Turner will have a chuckle after reading that nonsense.

Poor old Vanina Sucharitkul hasn't a clue in the slightest what democacy means.

These are all facts that he's quoting.... so please enlighten us what you think should be done.

Throw it straight in the trash where it belongs.

[DocN]

As part of the Sor Por Kor 4-01 (สปก.4-01) land reform scheme, Suthep gave title deeds to 592 plots of land in Khao Sam Liam, Kamala and Nakkerd hills of Phuket province to 489 farmers. It was later found that members of 11 wealthy families in Phuket were among the recipients. Suthep addressed a huge crowd in his Surat Thani constituency a month before a no-confidence debate and called on his supporters to march on Bangkok in the hundreds of thousands to defend his reputation. The scandal led Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai of the Democrat Party to dissolve the House of Representatives in July 1995 in order to avoid the no-confidence debate. In subsequent elections, Thai Nation Party won a majority, leading to the downfall of Chuan Leekpai's Democrat Party-led government.

Can you not understand your own quote Suthep basher ?

Out of 592 plots that were given to 489 farmers only 11 were wealthy families.

Meaning that the other 478 farmers were not wealthy.

This land was given to those who had a history of occupation of the land, in some cases for generations.

Why should any segment who had that history be left out just because of their financial status ?

Oh...only 11!

Well that makes it okay, I guess!

What a fine humanitarian!

[bigbamboo]

Thanks for the education on why the protests are happening. I have one question on this...why is the nation split between the poor rural peoples and the mid to upper class. What is that about?

It's called Thainess..... and like a little piece of land to call your own farang here will never get it.

[Carrerakiss]

Michael Turner will have a chuckle after reading that nonsense.

Poor old Vanina Sucharitkul hasn't a clue in the slightest what democacy means.

So enlighten us, which specific (repeat specific) parts of his letter are incorrect.

Well, not being picky, but I doubt anybody agrees that the Thaksin regime is even in the top ten of tyrannical regimes in history. That kind of outlandish claim undermines a lot of the other more salient arguments.

Not sure how you measure tyrannical, but Hitler, Stalin, Kim Jun il, Pol Pot plus a number of South American regimes would rank above his in terms of body count. Africa has had its share of despots, Idi Amin being one of the more famous, but a number of others that didn't quite hit the heights of notoriety. Then there was the Taliban in Afghanistan, they weren't all sweetness and light. Moving on to Eastern Europe, well perhaps there is no need to go there as a specific, repeat specific part of the letter is already proven to be incorrect.

Do you now wish to amend your post to request which specific, repeat specific, part is incorrect, except for the bit about the most tyrannical regime in history?

[aussiebebe]

The lawyer who wrote this letter seems a little out of touch with the reality of daily life for most Thais.
I live in Bangkok and my wife's family lives quite modestly - I've seen first-hand how they recieve a stipend to vote the right way at each local and national election. They voted for Yingluck's party in the last election because it paid more than what the Democrats were offering.

[thomash]

For some reason I do not think he is going to read the letter.

[Tchooptip]

I'm curious about the answers of some of the simplistic anti-Suthep pro Thaksin TV members

So what your answer?

Being not an anti-Suthep and certainly less a pro Thaksin I have nothing to "answer" I did read OP learnt a little more I already knew... without real astonishment!

[Jman73]

Unfortunately the leader of this current protest is probably equally as corrupt. Do some reading about 1995 and his Phuket land scandal that toppled the government which eventually lead to a financial crisis. Then do some more reading about his Palm Oil price manipulation scandal in 2010-2011. Do even more reading into the Thai constitution in which it labels certain ethnic groups in Thailand as "less than Thai" and you start to get the picture even more. Its my opinion this protest is about something else than it is about Democracy.

[JulesMad]

Who is Michael Turner????? I have never heard of the guy (I am not American), and what does he knows about Thailand???

Wikipedia told me he is Republican (not my flavor) and there is not a word about his Thailand 'knowledge'.

Anyway, I rate Obama smarter than this bloke, so I am no too worried...

[Diddl]

Why bring Obama into the problems of Thailand? Does this lawyer want Obama to send the troops in eventually? Isn’t it enough that the Americans have poked their noses into so many countries that don’t concern them, invaded them, killed the people, and taken over their economy only to make the people poorer than they were? Isn’t it enough that the Americans have paid both sides of protestors in various countries such as the Middle East in order to give themselves an excuse to intervene and invade yet again? I say, let the Thai people sort out their own problems and, if they can’t, so be it. Thailand is for the Thai people, not for power-hungry Americans or others who pillage and ruin countries and who can’t mind their own business!

I wonder also why a so-called educated lawyer would ask a corrupt politician to do anything anyway – corruption to help corruption maybe!

As Gulfsailor says, “US wants a base in Thailand. Thai military doesn't want it. You do the math what's going on.” – Ah! At last, someone who still has grey cells in his brain and can see a wider picture.

Doesn’t take much to figure out what is going on does it. Just look at what has been happening around the world in the last few years and it will tell you what is going on here. In fact, these tactics have been going on for thousands of years if you bother to research. Need I say more? Do your homework and you will see and know, and stop criticising the Thai people for something that is no doubt orchestrated from outside.

Just one other thing as people are talking about democracy and voting – Is it democratic when all the candidates for election in a country have been especially selected so that the people are not represented by the country but are mere puppets to a higher power? Good candidates who represent the people are not selected today and so can never be voted into office, you can only vote for the candidates that have been selected and chosen by the power-that-be, so now tell me that democracy exists, that freedom exists, and all that baloney. You can vote for whom you want, left, right, middle, they are all the same and are all selected puppets. If a good candidate by chance happened to be selected and was voted in, he would be assassinated. Look at history, of the assassinated, and see why they were eliminated.

Jman73 says, “Unfortunately the leader of this current protest is probably equally as corrupt. Do some reading about 1995 and his Phuket land scandal that toppled the government which eventually lead to a financial crisis. Then do some more reading about his Palm Oil price manipulation scandal in 2010-2011. Do even more reading into the Thai constitution in which it labels certain ethnic groups in Thailand as "less than Thai" and you start to get the picture even more. Its my opinion this protest is about something else than it is about Democracy.”

Wow! Jman73 seems to be getting the picture also. Thank goodness there are still people out there that think.

You want the facts? Look it up and do some research.

P.S. By the way, I am not anti-American people. This letter is addressed to the American President so I am keeping my remarks in context.

[chooka]

Perhaps Mr Obama would like to study the thread entitled " Protesters detain official for refusing to join protests" after he has read this letter.

yea and Obama being a head of Government himself will be supporting the kidnapping of another head of state by some bumbling lunatic Suthep is the biggest idiot to have ever walked the planet. I can't measure his followers because the bar is already to low with him.

[ChrisY1]

Wow OP, as a US trained lawyer as you claim then you would understand that weather you, Suthep, the Dem's or whistle blowers like it or not,

that

Also you as a US trained lawyer you would also know that the correct way to remove a government leader is to impeach them, clearly show corruption or breaches of laws, but this has not been shown has it.

But the US are well known for their style of removing government they no longer have use for yes?

"this government was elected and those trying to overthrow the government are not respecting the vote of the people, ie the democratic process, "

You're correct of course....PTP were elected....and there were some good populist policies implemented by the past Thaksin regimes.....Village fund, 30 Thb health fund & etc......however...in the highly populated North and NE regions prior to the last election, evidence is blatantly obvious of vote buying....(Youtube has several videos of Reds passing out 1000Thb bills for their vote).

The overwhelming problem with this is that independent research has shown that the Dems spent more buying votes in these regions than PT and it didn't work. People simply took the money and voted as they wished.

The uncomfortable and underlying implication in all these endless claims of vote buying is that all these people - the whole region - are stupid and easily led. The population's minds are not their own. I for one find this ongoing elitism and - yep - racism ugly. It's no different to the way white southerners approached the black population for a hundred years after the US civil war, and the English regarded Indians, Chinese, Malays, Māori, Aborigines and Africans for hundreds of years. It's abhorrent.

Please, next time you are making blanket accusations of vote buying think for a moment about what you are saying. People who live in the regions that vote strongly PT have minds, ethics, morals and opinions, no more or less than any other person who voted any other way - no matter how much you may need to buy into blanket "vote-buying" to support the position you may have taken.

While I have not seen this independent research information on overwhelming vote buying by the Dems.....it did happen via PTP....vote rigging it is usually called.

I also included a part on the massive corruption that has been exposed in the Rice Pledging scheme.......

These are some of the reasons that people are fed up and protesting...........

I have not mentioned that the people are, as you pointed out from my post, "stupid and easily led".......elitism and racism....??...

[Delta8500]

OP lost all credibility the moment she mentioned she is a US trained lawyer.

Funny...I thought the same thing.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[jackrich]

As part of the Sor Por Kor 4-01 (สปก.4-01) land reform scheme, Suthep gave title deeds to 592 plots of land in Khao Sam Liam, Kamala and Nakkerd hills of Phuket province to 489 farmers. It was later found that members of 11 wealthy families in Phuket were among the recipients. Suthep addressed a huge crowd in his Surat Thani constituency a month before a no-confidence debate and called on his supporters to march on Bangkok in the hundreds of thousands to defend his reputation. The scandal led Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai of the Democrat Party to dissolve the House of Representatives in July 1995 in order to avoid the no-confidence debate. In subsequent elections, Thai Nation Party won a majority, leading to the downfall of Chuan Leekpai's Democrat Party-led government.

Can you not understand your own quote Suthep basher ?

Out of 592 plots that were given to 489 farmers only 11 were wealthy families.

Meaning that the other 478 farmers were not wealthy.

This land was given to those who had a history of occupation of the land, in some cases for generations.

Why should any segment who had that history be left out just because of their financial status ?

Oh...only 11!

Well that makes it okay, I guess!

What a fine humanitarian!

Maybe we can call it "selective corruption"?

11 wealthy families, but if 592 lots were distributed to 489 farmers (a count that includes those 11 families), that means that at least 103 farmers/families received more than 1 lot of land. Possible even that almost each of those 11 families received 10 lots of land, while the poor farmers received only 1 each.

Maybe if Suthep could clear this matter up with a bit of TRANSPARENCY that he claims the current government lacks, we could get a better understanding.

But everyone can draw their own conclusions if the entire Democrat government resigned to prevent Suthep from having to testify. The amount of corruption involved from Suthep must have been huge.

[MobileContent]

The US knows exactly what is going on in Thailand.

[F430murci]

This is a great letter, please help it to be disseminated to all other foreign media and also can the US Government stop minding its own business and get its own country properly first especially its own economic policies. The people of US should start a demonstration against this garbage congressman Michael Turner and his family and croynies as he does not seem to be serving his own American People and their welfare but getting his nose involved in the butts of other people's <deleted> which is not his problem or issue. They should ousts this garbage and also check on all of his finances and businesses and even his families, I am sure that they will find something from a garbage like this.

You obviously don't know much about the Congressman do you? He has an impeccable record, consistently rates highly of the ethics scorecard and has received praise for his revitalization program when he was Mayor of Dayton. No one has ever accused him of wrongdoing.

Had you made an effort to see what congressional committees he chairs and sits on, you would have seen that he is indeed serving the American people. I suggest you do your research before you call someone of his background and reputation "garbage". Who are you to comment anyway? Do you know anything about the Congressman's voting record or the causes that eh has been active in? NO? I didn't think so.

I agree that there is no evidence that this congressman is serving anyone but the American people. However, that certainly doesn't mean that his American backed interests aren't opposite Thai interests.

He is US chairman of the house armed services tactical air and land forces subcommittee. US wants a base in Thailand. Thai military doesn't want it. You do the math what's going on.

The Thais that I know are increasingly becoming anti-American because of this sort of press. Why is an American Congressman writing to the president regarding Thailand? His job is not foreign relations. His job is to fulfill the wishes and best interests of his constituency. No politician is clean and a letter like this is certain to bring out the sharks who scent blood. As to my knowledge he's the only one commenting on Thailand... There has to be a reason, a tie or influence to the current situation or some personal matter.

They are all dirty you know.

They are not all dirty. Some or most are actually honorable, good people trying to do the right thing and serve their country and people. While I disagree with some and the points of view they hold, that does not make them dirty.

Interesting how people like you label everyone with an opposing view as dirty, yet you are unable or unwilling to see the corruption or malfeasance of those you support.

Unfortunately, the Thais to which you refer seem easily manipulated, easily angered and a bit irrational. Nothing wrong with favoring resolution through the ballot system as opposed to an endless cycle of each side taking to the streets every two years to over throw the opposition.

What no one addresses is whether anyone elected that is not supported by Anhisit or Suthep would be labeled as a Thaksin proxy as long as Thaksin is alive. So is the solution to supress democracy and permit an unelected regime to run Thailand until Thaksin or all of his family is dead? That could be a while.

The silly part is your belief that the US's public advocation for peaceful resolution determined by the ballot box has any impact on how Thailand will ultimately resolve this issue.

[Jonmarleesco]

Michael Turner will have a chuckle after reading that nonsense.

Poor old Vanina Sucharitkul hasn't a clue in the slightest what democacy means.

He doesn't? Seems pretty clued-in, to me. You disagree with his summation, please enlighten everyone.

[jackrich]

The US knows exactly what is going on in Thailand.

Sometimes I wish that Thailand would discover huge amounts of oil.

That would clear up the political circus.

[NHT]

DO you seriously believe "Obama" or anyone else need "Your" knowledge and advise on what to think about this circus? Serious?

Or maybe you hoped to get a job in the US? You gotta be a bit smarter than that, in fact, less of a fool! Gee, you must be desperate!

Edited January 20, 2014 by NHT

[JAG]

Michael Turner will have a chuckle after reading that nonsense.

Poor old Vanina Sucharitkul hasn't a clue in the slightest what democacy means.

These are all facts that he's quoting.... so please enlighten us what you think should be done.

1. Hold an election.

2. Abide by the results.

By all means press for reform, but not after you have overthrown an elected government and replaced it with a neofascist regime. No one can possibly imagine there will be anything resembling a free and fair election once Suthep and his bunch of well heeled and well connected thugs get their paws on the levers of power

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MrSlatersParrot]

The US knows exactly what is going on in Thailand.

Absolutely right

"Thaksin aided his wife to purchase government land at a reduced rate of 1/3 in violation of the law prohibiting political leaders from engaging in business dealings with the government. Thaksin was sentenced to two years but fled the country and never served his sentence."

Again this lawyer repeats PAD propoganda that is completely untrue.

The land was not sold for 1/3 of it's value.

There was a public auction.

There were 3 approved bids.

Podjaman outbid Land and House to acquire the land.

The FIDC and the bank of thailand had no objection in selling the land to her.

The issue taken up by the PAD and through the ASC was that she was married to the PM and that in their view the land was state owned and no state official could buy it.

But then

The US knows exactly what is going on in Thailand

[GreenSnapper]

Why should Obama listen to some immature Thai chick who takes herself way too important?

[NHT]

Michael Turner will have a chuckle after reading that nonsense.

Poor old Vanina Sucharitkul hasn't a clue in the slightest what democacy means.

These are all facts that he's quoting.... so please enlighten us what you think should be done.

1. Hold an election.

2. Abide by the results.

By all means press for reform, but not after you have overthrown an elected government and replaced it with a neofascist regime. No one can possibly imagine there will be anything resembling a free and fair election once Suthep and his bunch of well heeled and well connected thugs get their paws on the levers of power

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thank you Jag.

Gives me some hope on this forum !